it's kinda sad...

[irishzep]

I was not fortunate enough to see zep in their full glory so many years ago. I have witnessed robert plant live belt out a few classics a year and a half ago in the olympia theatre in dublin though and it kicked the arse of any dvd/cd or recording ive seen or heard. I also doubt Page or Jones have lost the ability to play the way they did if not better in their matured state as talent does not always directly correspond with age. I think with rehearsal and motive (like the current occasion) will make zeps performance one for the ages albiet without their original engine but the next best thing in his son. Unfortunately only a select few will witness this ultimate performance.

[Aquamarine]

Robert is an amazing performer, I must agree, irishzep.

I have to say, though, to Tangerine Wannabe, especially----frankly, this suggestion that Robert's career choices are based on the attractiveness of the women involved, and that his reason for making Raising Sand had to do primarily with Alison's attractiveness, are so dismissive of him as a singer, and of Alison's talent.

[MadScreamingGallery]

you hit the nail on the head. i don't think they look bad, i am just wistful....perhaps even of my own lost youth, lol!

oh, seriously, they look awesome for their age...but dammit i AM wistful of when they were in their prime in the early 70's (oh hell, don't slag me for THAT statement either, I think they were in their prime their whole career!) u know, the young rockstar look...

i seem to have opened a can of worms here!

ha ha ha ha ha

Oh, there you are. Thanks for coming back and confirming that you meant what I though you meant. I thought you had disappeared and left me to twist, slowly, in the wind. You hit the nail on the head - and I got that. At the risk of being scolded again, I agree with you that physically, they were in their prime back in the '70s. Absolutely looking and acting like rock stars in their prime. Don't think that anything that anyone can say would ever change my opinion on that one. Hope you'll stick around.

[TangerineWannabe]

I have to say, though, to Tangerine Wannabe, especially----frankly, this suggestion that Robert's career choices are based on the attractiveness of the women involved, and that his reason for making Raising Sand had to do primarily with Alison's attractiveness, are so dismissive of him as a singer, and of Alison's talent.

Aquamarine,

I just wanted to clarify something. I know I referenced your name towards the beginning of my last post. But after I said “Aquamarine, for me at least, older men look just as wrinkly as older women.” the rest of my post was not directed at you. It was just general comments directed at everyone. It’s difficult sometimes writing to try and delineate when you're speaking to someone and when you’re just writing to everyone. So when I said “if no one else does” the no one referred to anyone.

Actually I would tend to disagree with you on what influences him to work with Alison. I think if she was a pudgy, 60 year old lady with a great singing voice and 20 Grammys there may not have been an album. I could be wrong, who knows.

Seeing them together and in interviews I get the feeling that he may be interested in continuing to work with her rather than go back to Jimmy, John and Jason. Their personal life and motivations most likely are more important to them then what their fans want from them. But as I said, no one really knows, it’s all conjecture.

[Bonham]

They've all aged gracefully.

[Aquamarine]

Aquamarine,

I just wanted to clarify something. I know I referenced your name towards the beginning of my last post. But after I said “Aquamarine, for me at least, older men look just as wrinkly as older women.” the rest of my post was not directed at you. It was just general comments directed at everyone. It’s difficult sometimes writing to try and delineate when you're speaking to someone and when you’re just writing to everyone. So when I said “if no one else does” the no one referred to anyone.

Actually I would tend to disagree with you on what influences him to work with Alison. I think if she was a pudgy, 60 year old lady with a great singing voice and 20 Grammys there may not have been an album. I could be wrong, who knows.

Seeing them together and in interviews I get the feeling that he may be interested in continuing to work with her rather than go back to Jimmy, John and Jason. Their personal life and motivations most likely are more important to them then what their fans want from them. But as I said, no one really knows, it’s all conjecture.

Fair enough. But my point was the other way around--that he wouldn't be working with Alison, no matter how gorgeous she was, if she couldn't sing; that his musical integrity is paramount for him.

Edited for speling.

[TangerineWannabe]

Fair enough. But my point was the other way around--that he wouldn't be working with Alison, no matter how gorgeous she was, if she couldn't sing;

Oh I definitely agree with you on that. If I remember correctly he said in an interview that it was suggested to him that he contact her to see if they could work together. They performed together I think 4 years ago for an event. Later I think T-Bone is the one who orchestrated this (not sure about that). If she wasn’t the extremely talented person she is, no matter what she looked like, I doubt he would be interested in this project. We certainly agree there.

But my feeling after seeing them together in an interview was that since they’re both single and she has excelled in her field just like he did in his, that he may be thinking that if they stay together long enough and continue to work on projects together, as opposed to getting sidetracked with a new Zeppelin tour, that she may really start to like him and overlook their age difference. I probably don’t even know what I’m talking about, he may be in a current relationship right now and have no interest in Alison other than their business relationship.

Also, regarding the post which started this whole thing, I was just having a little fun. That’s why I said at the end “I hope you know I’m laughing as I write this” it was just me goofing around a bit. Again, sometimes in writing that’s not clear because you can’t hear the inflection in one’s voice.

I noticed Joelmon liked our posts... Thanks Joelmon

[MadScreamingGallery]

Interesting points. Well, I am still caught up in the romantic idea of the muse and the artist. Personally, I think that the relationship between Plant and Krauss is similar to the relationship that existed between Balanchine and Farrell (a relationship that I found particularly compelling). It seems that in both situations, (Plant & Krauss and Balanchine & Farrell) a younger woman and an older man provide inspiration for the other’s art. Some of what has been written here may run counter to feminism (e.g., conjures up images of repression, naïveté, etc. and stereotypes of a passive, worshipful young woman and an aggressive, controlling older man), so it might not sit well with some. On different but related (?) topic, in the case of rockers, I think that, if you define a muse as one who kicks the emotional and erotic heat up several notches and, through that, enhances the music that is created, some might (dare) say that “band aids” can function as the muses of rockers. <ducks>

[TangerineWannabe]

MSG, (I hope you don't mind me using initials)

I looked up the word “muse” and found this:

the goddess or the power regarded as inspiring a poet, artist, thinker, or the like.

But can you tell me what a “band aid” is? I’m new to this lingo… : )

Are you referring to groupies?

[MadScreamingGallery]

MSG, (I hope you don't mind me using initials)

I looked up the word “muse” and found this:

the goddess or the power regarded as inspiring a poet, artist, thinker, or the like.

But can you tell me what a “band aid” is? I’m new to this lingo… : )

Are you referring to groupies?

TangerineWannabe, you can call me Mad (as in enthusiastic, not as in angry or crazy).

That's a beautiful, classic definition of muse. I wonder if the definition has at all changed or been updated or added to in order to make it fit other (more modern) circumstances.

Yes. But I don't know if we're allowed to use that word on the boards. I suppose that, if it's verboten, the mods will warn us.

[TangerineWannabe]

Indeedy I do.

[TangerineWannabe]

I think I found a theme song for this topic. It’s not Robert singing, but hopefully he won’t mind. Maybe he was friends with Eric back in the day. Both of them had great voices.

When I Was Young

Eric Burdon & The Animals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryeqvr_qCfY

[Aquamarine]

MSG, (I hope you don't mind me using initials)

I looked up the word “muse” and found this:

the goddess or the power regarded as inspiring a poet, artist, thinker, or the like.

But can you tell me what a “band aid” is? I’m new to this lingo… : )

Are you referring to groupies?

(That's what all those heavy hints are about. )

One of them inspired Hot Dog, anyway--perhaps not one of the band's premium numbers!

[Debbie]

I think it is sort of sad when we all age, because with age comes a lot more aches and pains. But with age comes a lot more patience and wisdom too, so I guess there is a trade off. I think that the boys have all aged rather well, and I can only hope that I age half that well!

[ian]

God this thread is deep... can I drag it back to my shallow level? If any younger girls out there really do fancy older men, for themselves and not their money, please let me know (and not the wife!). When I first saw the pictures I was sad. I saw Zeppelin in 1979. I remember Chase and Dave making us shout "Boll**ks" to cheer us up (they were first on and it had been raining). I remember the cans of (full) beer being thrown. The New Barbarians coming on eventually. I remember the delay of Zeppelin starting, The Lasers (oh my god) and strangely, a sound fault during the show that caused Mr Plant to swear. I remember Zeppelin as 4 men in their early 30's. If I watch the DVD of Kenbworth it makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, and I realise that that was a long time go. I look in the mirror and what do I see? Sometimes it's okay to be sad. I think it is possible to be happily sad. If in doubt check out this link. http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/desiderata.html

[MadScreamingGallery]

Interesting points. Well, I am still caught up in the romantic idea of the muse and the artist. Personally, I think that the relationship between Plant and Krauss is similar to the relationship that existed between Balanchine and Farrell (a relationship that I found particularly compelling). It seems that in both situations, (Plant & Krauss and Balanchine & Farrell) a younger woman and an older man provide inspiration for the other’s art. Some of what has been written here may run counter to feminism (e.g., conjures up images of repression, naïveté, etc. and stereotypes of a passive, worshipful young woman and an aggressive, controlling older man), so it might not sit well with some. On different but related (?) topic, in the case of rockers, I think that, if you define a muse as one who kicks the emotional and erotic heat up several notches and, through that, enhances the music that is created, some might (dare) say that “band aids” can function as the muses of rockers. <ducks>

(That's what all those heavy hints are about. )

One of them inspired Hot Dog, anyway--perhaps not one of the band's premium numbers!

I wasn't thinking of the albums and songs. When I wrote that I was thinking about when the band was touring, their concert performances, and the music they created on stage.

I think I found a theme song for this topic. It’s not Robert singing, but hopefully he won’t mind. Maybe he was friends with Eric back in the day. Both of them had great voices.

When I Was Young

Eric Burdon & The Animals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryeqvr_qCfY

I like that song! Can't beat the '67 psychedelic/Eastern sound.

[SunChild]

That is great that your parents talk to you about how the band was back in the day. It's nice to learn firsthand about another time. My husband and I have always done the same thing with our own kids. It's a nice image to have of that time. Re: you last sentence - I try not to think about that either. I can't imagine the grief I will feel.

:lol: I know you're j/k but I feel compelled to clarify: No, no, no, no no. NO sharks. No octopus either. :lol:

Just don't ask about lemons.

Wouldn't that be "octopi"?

To paraphrase - "Though rock musicians throw octopi at young women in sport, the young women do not squeal in sport, but in earnest..."

(I don't know, the octopus thing was kind of fun sounding. Kind of. In a way. A strange way. Unusual experience, for sure. Hard to replicate outside of an aquarium, you know. Peel those suckers off and toss them back, you know? [poor things…] Certainly the kind of thing only young people would conceive of, to put this on topic. Er, uh... )

[TangerineWannabe]

...and strangely, a sound fault during the show that caused Mr Plant to swear. I remember Zeppelin as 4 men in their early 30's. If I watch the DVD of Kenbworth it makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, and I realise that that was a long time go. I look in the mirror and what do I see? Sometimes it's okay to be sad. I think it is possible to be happily sad. If in doubt check out this link. http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/desiderata.html

You might be referring to the “amplifier blunder” that he talks about in this video from Knebworth 1979.

I’m sorry to sound like a gushing school girl, but I just have to say this. The first two minutes when he has to make small talk with the audience because the equipment’s not working he is so incredibly adorable. How can anyone not love him in this.

Ian, Don’t feel bad about lamenting over lost youth. We’re all in the same boat in one way or another. I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately as I spend way too much time on YouTube watching these old videos. Also, I’m realizing that I’m far more attracted to men in their 20s and 30s than my own age group. Which is kind of scary. That doesn’t bode well for the future does it?

Since Eric has recently tied with Robert as my favorite singer, I wanted to post these links in addition to the other one. And he’s 66 now, which I can’t bear to think of.

House of the rising sun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2MbpQ71ksk

We gotta get out of this place

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8NZd7NlHbQ

Paint it black

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbdaoWv95ww

p.s.

I have Desiderata almost memorized, have loved that for years now. And have been thinking about the part, “Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.”

[SunChild]

I can pretty much guarantee Robert’s not looking for a woman with any of those attributes.

So much for "glad to be falling for the beauty inside," I guess.

I think you're on to something Tangerine, about women letting it happen. Women should not be dismissed from living their own lives. If they are younger, and maybe it appears to the outside (sexist) world (that privileges the male), that the older man is exploiting her, well, the woman is seeking and getting something, too.

In that vein, this recent phenomena of the "cougar" is kind of heartening. I suppose it's a logical evolution of the MILF. More power to Demi Moore, for sure! It immediately made my opinion of both her and Ashton Kutchner go up. Takes a real man not to run from that kind of experience in a woman.

Interesting points. Well, I am still caught up in the romantic idea of the muse and the artist. Personally, I think that the relationship between Plant and Krauss is similar to the relationship that existed between Balanchine and Farrell (a relationship that I found particularly compelling). It seems that in both situations, (Plant & Krauss and Balanchine & Farrell) a younger woman and an older man provide inspiration for the other’s art. Some of what has been written here may run counter to feminism (e.g., conjures up images of repression, naïveté, etc. and stereotypes of a passive, worshipful young woman and an aggressive, controlling older man), so it might not sit well with some. On different but related (?) topic, in the case of rockers, I think that, if you define a muse as one who kicks the emotional and erotic heat up several notches and, through that, enhances the music that is created, some might (dare) say that “band aids” can function as the muses of rockers. <ducks>

I love what you say! That seems exactly right, to me.

I also love the romantic conception of the muse and the artist. The muse is a feminine force, isn't it? Soft and encouraging, full of possibility, as well as a kind of siren. Like Jimmy said in that BBC interview, there was a balance there between life on the road and life off the road... it really sounded to me like he needed both.

Wouldn't you say each of them (with the exception of Bonzo, heh) were quite in touch with their feminine sides? Robert wore blouses I couldn't pull off; I'm not that frilly, LOL! Jimmy in his prime was more beautiful than half a dozen famous women movie stars.

It does my heart good to see them all looking so vital. But I also know plenty of older women who are looking great and living large. I was just talking with a 60 year old friend about her recent surfing trip, during which a teenaged boy told her "You're really cool, I wish my grandmother surfed!" and proceeded to give her a bunch of breaks. The times, they are a changin'

[TangerineWannabe]

I think you're on to something Tangerine, about women letting it happen. Women should not be dismissed from living their own lives. If they are younger, and maybe it appears to the outside (sexist) world (that privileges the male), that the older man is exploiting her, well, the woman is seeking and getting something, too.

In that vein, this recent phenomena of the "cougar" is kind of heartening. I suppose it's a logical evolution of the MILF. More power to Demi Moore, for sure! It immediately made my opinion of both her and Ashton Kutchner go up. Takes a real man not to run from that kind of experience in a woman.

I may have been misunderstood. When I said “women let it happen” I didn’t mean that it was a good thing that they let it happen. I’ve generally thought that young women should be with young men or at least within a 10 year range.

I saw Larry King’s wife on his show once. You would recognize her if you saw her, she’s a model and much younger. But for the life of me, I couldn’t understand what the heck she was thinking when she married him. And she didn’t look happy in the interview either. She should have been with someone like Robert at Knebworth in 1979 instead of Larry. Maybe his money had something to do with it, who knows. I will never understand that.

I wasn’t sure what a “band aid” was, and I also don’t know what a “cougar” is or for that matter “MILF.” Please explain.

[TangerineWannabe]

I wasn’t sure what a “band aid” was, and I also don’t know what a “cougar” is or for that matter “MILF.” Please explain.

Nov. 14: COUGAR: No, it’s not a car or an animal — it's a woman who’s over 40, who’s smart, confident and is attracted to younger men.

SunChild,

Nevermind, I looked up the word on the internet and found the definition.

I guess these women must be watching these 20-30 year old rock stars from the 1970s on YouTube as well.

[Aquamarine]

I wasn't thinking of the albums and songs. When I wrote that I was thinking about when the band was touring, their concert performances, and the music they created on stage.

A muse inspires the song's creation, though, no?

Classical muses are always feminine. So, next question: can a man function as the muse of a woman? And, what relevance, if any, does age have to the process? Is it a question of youth=beauty, or do definitions of beauty change as one ages (mine have, for instance, but I may be the odd one out)?

[eternal light]

Interesting points. Well, I am still caught up in the romantic idea of the muse and the artist. Personally, I think that the relationship between Plant and Krauss is similar to the relationship that existed between Balanchine and Farrell (a relationship that I found particularly compelling). It seems that in both situations, (Plant & Krauss and Balanchine & Farrell) a younger woman and an older man provide inspiration for the other's art. Some of what has been written here may run counter to feminism (e.g., conjures up images of repression, naïveté, etc. and stereotypes of a passive, worshipful young woman and an aggressive, controlling older man), so it might not sit well with some. On different but related (?) topic, in the case of rockers, I think that, if you define a muse as one who kicks the emotional and erotic heat up several notches and, through that, enhances the music that is created, some might (dare) say that "band-aids" can function as the muses of rockers. <ducks>

Mr. B and Miss Farrell had a love affair in addition to their shared artistic endeavors.

Repression may have been a factor in the personal relationship, as he was still married to Tanaquil Le Clercq when the romance with Suzanne Farrell proceeded.

Erato was the Muse of Love Poetry from Greek mythology, if you are wondering about the precedent for emotional and erotic heat.

Also, Mr. B cast dancers literally as Muses in his choreography, of which the following is just one example, as there were also others.

In the 1960s, Balanchine fell deeply in love with the young and talented Suzanne Farrell. He created many ballets for her, including Don Quixote (with him playing the Don, and Farrell, Dulcinea), and the Diamonds section of the full-length ballet Jewels. The romance suffered however, because Balanchine was still married to Tanaquil Le Clercq, and Farrell, a Roman Catholic, refused to consummate the romance. Farrell's position in the company was the cause of consternation; some ballerinas, like his former wife, Maria Tallchief, quit, citing Farrell as the reason. Balanchine obtained a Mexican divorce from Le Clercq, only to discover Farrell had married a NYCB dancer, Paul Meija. Heartbroken and enraged, Balanchine and Farrell became increasingly estranged, and in 1970 both Farrell and her husband quit the company. They then moved to Brussels and joined Maurice Bejart's dance company. In 1975, Farrell returned to the NYCB.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Balanchine

''Balanchine 100: The Centennial Celebration'' continued at the New York State Theater on Wednesday night, when the New York City Ballet presented three works by George Balanchine that offered his personal interpretations of dance history and style.

The evening opened with ''Apollo,'' choreographed in 1928 to music by Stravinsky. The ballet shows the growth of the young god Apollo and his encounter with three muses.

By JACK ANDERSON

Published: January 9, 2004

nytimes.com

The ballet received a generally satisfying performance. Nikolaj Hubbe was a handsome and powerful Apollo whose upraised arms seemed to extend into the heavens to receive divine messages.

Rachel Rutherford made a successful debut as Calliope, the muse of poetry. Balanchine's choreography makes Calliope gesture as if she were reciting flamboyantly. Ms. Rutherford's movements were appropriately florid, yet she never exaggerated them. And her changing states of tension and relaxation suggested that this muse's verses expressed many moods.

Jennie Somogyi turned Polyhymnia, who represents mime, into an exuberant muse. But Ms. Somogyi should strive to keep her upraised finger motionless in front of her mouth, for that finger is Balanchine's reminder that mime is a silent art. Yvonne Borree was gracious as Terpsichore, muse of dance.

By JACK ANDERSON

Published: January 9, 2004

nytimes.com

Reviewers began to take notice not only of her long, slender body and impeccable technique, typical of the Balanchine-trained dancer, but of her special personal lyricism and spontaneity. In 1965 Balanchine choreographed a new full-length ballet on the theme of Don Quixote, to a new score by his fellow Russian exile Nicholas Nabokov. Farrell's performance of Dulcinea, the idealized dream woman of the addled knight made her a star. The choreographer had created the role especially to take advantage of her magical, mysterious qualities. He was often quoted in the press as saying of his youthful protege, "She is my muse." Don Quixote is considered by Ms. Farrell as her breakthrough ballet in terms of pure emotional honesty on stage. This stunning production sealed the unique bond between the young artist and her inspired mentor "Mr. B."

www.achievement.org

However, Suzanne Farrell comes across as something other than passive. I seriously doubt that passive women get through the auditions at New York City Ballet. It simply takes more than that. Suzanne Farrell performed as a principal dancer in the company for years. No one in the New York City Ballet remains passive for very long. It just doesn't work that way; they have to move all the time, and the choreography often requires split-second timing with multiple changes of direction, which is probably why Baryshnikov injured his knee.

As a child, Roberta Sue Ficker of Cincinnati, Ohio never dreamed of becoming Suzanne Farrell, the youngest ballerina in the history of the New York City Ballet. A devotee of tree climbing, dodgeball and playing "dress-up," she imagined instead that she would work as a clown. Her study of dance began at age eight when it was decided ballet classes might make the little "tomboy" more ladylike. Her passion for the art was not instantaneous. Tall for her age, she played boys' roles in school recitals, and preferred tap and acrobatics to ballet, but finally graduated to a tutu at age 12. After her parents divorced in 1954, her mother worked as a nurse to support her three girls, who were constantly practicing and rehearsing at the Cincinnati Conservatory of Music.

www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/far0bio-1

[DreamyKnight]

...to see how, um, old they are looking. Then again, they probably have more energy than me, and hell, at least they are still ROCKING!

I hope when I get their age I have their get up and go....

Nothing sad about it at all. The evolution of every human...musicaly its a fresh inspiration showing all of us, it's its never too late. Music has no age barriers.

They look distinguished and wise. Hmmmm, I'm going to have to say something sarcastic now to balance it all out....the yin yang thing..................

[SunChild]

I may have been misunderstood. When I said “women let it happen” I didn’t mean that it was a good thing that they let it happen. I’ve generally thought that young women should be with young men or at least within a 10 year range.

I saw Larry King’s wife on his show once. You would recognize her if you saw her, she’s a model and much younger. But for the life of me, I couldn’t understand what the heck she was thinking when she married him. And she didn’t look happy in the interview either. She should have been with someone like Robert at Knebworth in 1979 instead of Larry. Maybe his money had something to do with it, who knows. I will never understand that.

I actually am with you. Unless it is truly love, people really should not be too far outside their own age group. But, who's to say she doesn't get something other than material goods out of her relationship with him? I hope so, for both their sakes. Those sorts of relationships always make me think less of the man, than the woman.

I was thinking of “women shouldn’t let that happen” from the stand point of, why allow ourselves to be pigeon-holed as washed up after a certain age? Why let men get all the silver-haired, distinguished, respected, attractive older person action?

Nov. 14: COUGAR: No, it’s not a car or an animal — it's a woman who’s over 40, who’s smart, confident and is attracted to younger men.

SunChild,

Nevermind, I looked up the word on the internet and found the definition.

I guess these women must be watching these 20-30 year old rock stars from the 1970s on YouTube as well.

Who, moi?

The other day I was watching these wonderful 20 – 30 year old rock stars dripping sweat and sex all over the place on the newly re-mastered DVD when my husband walked in and with a wicked glint in his eyes, said “Hey, aren’t those guys all, like, 60 now?” and walked out.

Be that as it may I think of a cougar as an older woman who also is attractive to younger men. The definition is not her desire for them, but theirs for her.

(MILF: Mother I'd Like to F...; see the movie “American Pie.”)

Of course I may be entirely delusional, but, I'm not feeling sad, anyway.