How big were/are Led Zeppelin?

[docron]

I mean, I'm just 23, so I can't vouch for much prior to 1985. Maybe I just haven't looked hard enough, or maybe I listen to Zeppelin so fanatically that I don't even realize that others are doing the same thing (be it on a lesser scale - which, in my case, it probably is )

In the end, I guess all that really matters is that I myself have had countless life-changing experiences with Zeppelin, sitting in my room next to my record player, smokin a left-hander, pulling a Zeppelin album of the rack, poppin it on, setting the needle, flippin over the album jacket, and just kickin it. I could care less if they were/are big. They're big to me. So big, that there really is nothing else. Sure Cream or Hendrix will do on occasion.., but nothing remotely close to Zeppelin.

I could only hope (and I'm sure its not a stretch) that there are millions more out there that Zeppelin has touched in this way who share this amazing journey with me.

[tyedye]

Someone said I didn't do research... This is a pretty default claim. In fact, if YOU did research, you would have known that I didn't have to do any research on what is already common knowledge among Zeppelin fans.

I was just telling you what I see in the mid-west United States. I'm 23, so I'm only talking about things that happened from 1985 till present day.

I bet you a huge bulk of the hundred million albums that were sold in the U.S. were sold prior to that timeframe, and probably werent sold in the midwest.

If you ask me, I still stand by my claim that they are not as popular as people think (in the mid-west at least).

None of my friends, nor any of my enemies are into Led Zeppelin. In my lifetime, the people I've met who are worth calling themselves Zeppelin fans (i.e. know more than just Stairway) in the midwest can be counted on two hands.

The primary music tastes here in Michigan are country and southern rock, both of which I hate, and both of which aren't Zeppelin.

Its a real drag, but thats just what I see.

I don't want to start any fights, and I'm not saying that it isn't different elsewhere.

I live in the Midwest. Minnesota as a matter of fact.

You might consider us hicks, but we know who Led Zeppelin are.

[Mangani]

I know this sounds sort of provoking. Especially to American fans. But let me tell you that Led Zeppelin have had a much smaller fan base in continental Europe than in the US.

Well, you can say that about many many bands. There are few bands who were as popular in continental Europe as Led Zep were in the U.S.

People here maybe know STH but "Dust in the Wind" or "Paranoid" or "Alright Now" are much more popular.

I would disagree with that. Alright Now is of course a perennial favourite but Paranoid and Dust In The Wind? No chance.

Of course everybody knew LZ in Europe the 70ies. Immigrant Song, WLL and of course STH were (sort of) hits, but bands like Deep Purple or even Uriah Heep were more popular because of their more simple and radio-friendly-approach.

This is simply just not true. Deep Purple and Uriah Heep did not sell more albums or play to bigger concert crowds than Led Zeppelin. Take away Smoke On The Water and the rest of Deep Purple's catalogue is not known so well.

A friend of mine (b. 1957) told me that LZ were only for the people who were also into Yes or Zappa.

Well, I'm afraid your friend was wrong.

Another reason might be that continental Europe (to this day) never had important (Classic-) Rock stations or AOR stations like in the US. So LZ have been "gone" for quite a while.

And yet their recent releases have sold pretty well in Europe and I'd vouch they'd still sell far more than any recent releases by Purple and Heep LOL.

[Mangani]

With respect to Australia and New Zealand, my sense is that Zeppelin are very popular there,though not anymore than Queen,AC/DC or Pink Floyd. Perhaps some of our friends from those countries shed some light on this topic.

I lived in Australia for a year. Led Zeppelin are a legendary name there (moreso than Queen. Queen are seen as a bit naff in Oz) and of course very popular. Their concerts in early '72 were massive affairs for those days.

[Mangani]

........disgagree, zep as stated were mega in usa and canda, so to in th uk, in terms of albums sales the same as queen, just that queens' best of albums have been amongst the best selling albums of all time time here in the uk. there are many queen original albums that struggled to get into the top 5 album chart here, while all zeppelin albums hit the no#1 spot, except for the first lp.

You are absolutely right. Queen's media friendly marketing of their 'best of albums' as well as the fact that their music is constantly flogged to death on things like fecking adverts for armchairs and sofas, is one of the reason's while they are high on the albums sales list.

I actually think that LZ's 9 million album sales in the U.K (must be around that much with Mothership added) is pretty good going for a band who were never in the pop singles charts here.

Can't see Deep Purple, Black Sabbath or Uriah fecking Heep on that list. LOL.

[Medhb]

Someone said I didn't do research... This is a pretty default claim. In fact, if YOU did research, you would have known that I didn't have to do any research on what is already common knowledge among Zeppelin fans.

I was just telling you what I see in the mid-west United States. I'm 23, so I'm only talking about things that happened from 1985 till present day.

I bet you a huge bulk of the hundred million albums that were sold in the U.S. were sold prior to that timeframe, and probably werent sold in the midwest.

If you ask me, I still stand by my claim that they are not as popular as people think (in the mid-west at least).

None of my friends, nor any of my enemies are into Led Zeppelin. In my lifetime, the people I've met who are worth calling themselves Zeppelin fans (i.e. know more than just Stairway) in the midwest can be counted on two hands.

The primary music tastes here in Michigan are country and southern rock, both of which I hate, and both of which aren't Zeppelin.

Its a real drag, but thats just what I see.

I don't want to start any fights, and I'm not saying that it isn't different elsewhere.

I was born and raised in Michigan, graduated in 1978. I still love my southern rock but if you didn't have any Led Zeppelin in yer collection you were just a nerd! Guess it must have been a boyfriend that first 'exposed' (ahahaha!) me to Led Zeppelin...if fact, our song was Thank You....I still remember him fondly...the sun still shines and the mountains stand but there no longer a him and me ; )

[Jiri]

Eurgh, I'm done now. I'll go back to watching the Germany/Austria game on telly.

F.ck, we lost!

@Mangini

Maybe I didn´t make it clear enough that I meant CONTINENTAL Europe. I can´t speak for the UK.

I work for a big media company and I did some research: LZ have been played by Austrian radio stations (market of 8 million people) FOUR (!) times in the year 2007.

:( :(

Proud Mary by CCR about 100 times per WEEK!!!!

Double that for Smokie...

I know they were more like pop bands but this is about general popularity, right?

Easy Livin´, Lady In Black, Child In Time, Proud Mary, Highway Star, Children Of The Revolution - HARD TO BELIEVE BUT IT`S TRUE - songs by other bands were just more "popular" in Germany, France, Italy, etc.

LZ just weren´t commercial enough to be played whether on Top40-radio or by cover bands.

And it´s not about record sales alone. It´s also about how often they´ve been covered by magazines, TV coverage and - most important - AIRPLAY!

Thank god this changed a bit since kids started to buy LZ records after the Grunge thing happened.

Edited June 17, 2008 by Jiri

[SunChild]

You know, I find it somewhat hard to swallow the whole 'US made Led Zeppelin' thing, however truthful it may be. I've always liked to think that the UK fanbase had, at the very least, some sort of impact on the band, and to say that America 'made' Zeppelin kind of treads on the UK fans who supported them from the very get go. I've always felt, and this is only me, that the UK and Europe were always put on the backburner compared to the US. We only had a fraction the concerts that the US had, even in the first full year alone, and it seemed that it was going be that way until 1980. Zeppelin didn't even tour the UK or Europe in '77.

However, I've been to the US several times and I constantly hear Zeppelin on their radios. I don't remember ever hearing them on our's. I applaud the US for that because they've always seen the longevity in Zeppelin, whereas, I've always felt, Britain kind of flitters in and out of phases with them. Maybe it's because the UK was never really given the exposure that the US had? I'm 22, I couldn't possibly say.

I'm British, I'll always be biased, so in that respect, I didn't have a problem with them playing at the O2 in December. Maybe this time around they felt a stronger alligience to Britain, they all live here, their roots are here and I think it would've been a real kick in the teeth to the UK and European fans had they performed the concert in America, considering many of the other acts were British as well. The US fanbase may have been pissed that they missed out on a one off concert, but I don't think anyone in the US can really argue that WE missed out on so much more and for so much longer.

Eurgh, I'm done now. I'll go back to watching the Germany/Austria game on telly.

Yes, I can see what you're saying about the UK fans. I was never upset they played at the O2 or in London, it seems right and proper to me, over due, even.

The US making Zeppelin is partly just the numbers. Obviously the American market is bigger. I don't know what the population of the UK was in the 70s, somewhere in the tens of millions? There were 200 million or so folks in America then, with commercial radio stations every which way, even in rural areas. (See "American Grafitti" for a take on downtown Stockton, CA in the fifties...) No doubt their fans in UK felt the same, or even more passionately, than US fans, it's just that there were more US fans, possibly with more disposable income, too.

The Beatles success here showed the way, and paved the way. Also, rock is mainly an Amercian form of music, like jazz and blues. Many "British invasion" bands, up to and including Zeppelin, made no secret of being inspired by American rock and blues. So not only was the music familiar and already well loved here, flattery will get you everywhere.

So there it is: population, habit, history, and outlets for the music to be heard, played and sold, all rolled in to one opportunity. Zeppelin took it and flew.

Edited June 17, 2008 by SunChild

[euro]

F.ck, we lost!

@Mangini

Maybe I didn´t make it clear enough that I meant CONTINENTAL Europe. I can´t speak for the UK.

I work for a big media company and I did some research: LZ have been played by Austrian radio stations (market of 8 million people) FOUR (!) times in the year 2007.

:( :(

Proud Mary by CCR about 100 times per WEEK!!!!

Double that for Smokie...

I know they were more like pop bands but this is about general popularity, right?

Easy Livin´, Lady In Black, Child In Time, Proud Mary, Highway Star, Children Of The Revolution - HARD TO BELIEVE BUT IT`S TRUE - songs by other bands were just more "popular" in Germany, France, Italy, etc.

LZ just weren´t commercial enough to be played whether on Top40-radio or by cover bands.

And it´s not about record sales alone. It´s also about how often they´ve been covered by magazines, TV coverage and - most important - AIRPLAY!

Thank god this changed a bit since kids started to buy LZ records after the Grunge thing happened.

Some Austrian Chart positions

Zeppelin Early Days - The Best Of Led Zeppelin Volume One 09.01.2000 23 8

Peak Weeks

Led Zeppelin Houses Of The Holy 1973 15.05.1973 3 1 2

Led Zeppelin How The West Was Won 08.06.2003 1 7 6

Led Zeppelin In Through The Outdoor 1979 15.10.1979 20 4

Led Zeppelin Mothership 2007 23.11.2007 4 13

Led Zeppelin Physical Graffiti 1975 15.04.1975 2 12

Led Zeppelin Remasters 1990 13.01.1991 19 10

Not bad performance for a band that apparently is never played in Austria. If Mothership could peak at #4 in Austrian without any airplay that is an accomplishment

PG peaked at #2,Houses of the Holy#3 and Mothership #4. In through the out door to #20,(pretty dismal performance of the album right across Europe) even in UK while it made #1 its stint in the Top Ten was very short.

In Canada,on the other hand. In through the out door was in Top 10 for nearly 6 months! In the USA a similar chart performance

Edited June 17, 2008 by euro

[Jiri]

Yes, you are right. That´s not bad.

But they didn´t get airplay. And have you also checked the Charts Positions of Smokie, Deep Purple and others?

Plus 1972 was the first year of album charts in Austria. So, you can see how much albums meant back then. Yes, it changed throughout the 70ies. And - as I stated earlier - Led Zeppelin became bigger after 1993, which explains the sales in the 90ies.

The facts remain the same:

In the Continental Europe of the 70ies Led Zeppelin were ONE of the best known bands.

They were not the No. 1 choice of radio DJs, journalists and teenagers.

When it comes to rock: Deep Purple, Pink Floyd and Queen ruled the scene. Until punk and the new wave of British metal arrived.

Since we don´t have AOR-radio they never got the airplay they deserved. Because radio has always defined what is essential and what people talk about and which SINGLES should be bought.

[Mangani]

I don't know why you keep saying Deep Purple. They are FAR less well known on the continent than Led Zeppelin and always were.

You mention Germany alot. You do know that Whole Lotta Love was a NUMBER ONE HIT SINGLE in Germany for NINE WEEKS RUNNING from Feb 13th to April 17th 1970, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number-one_hi...0_%28Germany%29

Deep Purple never had a number one hit single in Germany as far as I know.

Queen and Floyd I can see, but Deep Purple more popular and bigger than Zep? No way man. No way!

Even Queen were a bit later than Zeppelin. Queen didn't begin to become big in Europe until the later half of the '70s. Led Zeppelin were hardly touring or releasing much stuff by then. Led Zeppelin ruled the early half of the '70s in Europe.

Edited June 18, 2008 by Mangani

[euro]

I don't know why you keep saying Deep Purple. They are FAR less well known on the continent than Led Zeppelin and always were.

Deep Purple were huge in Germany,great chart runs on their albums but that was not representative of the continent

Edited June 18, 2008 by euro

[Katuschka]

What do you think?

I think they are in a general memory of the people who have listened to this kind of music.

It's adequate to the general promotion (and now I don't mean only radios etc. but also the management of the band). There were no large Europe tours.

What was/is your perception?

I've always been surrounded by people who like or at least know the band.

And how big are LZ in Eastern Europe (always special)?

The situation concerning Eastern Europe is a bit complicated, because people did not have an easy access to the albums. Although I don't think that makes it 'special.'

How about Asia or Southern America?

[euro]

I think they are in a general memory of the people who have listened to this kind of music.

It's adequate to the general promotion (and now I don't mean only radios etc. but also the management of the band). There were no large Europe tours.

I've always been surrounded by people who like or at least know the band.

The situation concerning Eastern Europe is a bit complicated, because people did not have an easy access to the albums. Although I don't think that makes it 'special.'

How about Asia or Southern America?

Popular in Latin America for english rock band,but probably not as popular as Queen.

Asia: Japan-again popular for english rock group but not as popular as say Madonna,Abba and of course domestic acts

[Mangani]

Deep Purple were huge in Germany,great chart runs on their albums

Again, I would dispute that Deep Purple were as big/popular in Germany as Led Zeppelin.

My girlfriend of 10 years is German.

[Mangani]

Popular in Latin America for english rock band,but probably not as popular as Queen.

Are you going on actual record sales or just judging by the huge concert crowds that Queen played to there (whereas Led Zeppelin never managed to play there).

[Jiri]

Manigini, you know what, I lost interest in debating this. One more thing:

I have the age to know about LZ and I AM from Continental Europe.

Edited June 19, 2008 by Jiri

[hot dog]

To wit:

Zeppelin never really hit it big until they came to the U.S. Neither did bands like: The Who, The Rolling Stones, and I dare say the Beatles.

Statements like this over-simplify the situation. Zeppelin toured the USA from the earliest days and so their rise in popularity always had something to do with the fact that they were willing to tour there regularly. It's not as if they were nothing and then became something only after touring the USA. Of course, if you do break America - as they did - then that takes you into a different league altogether.

The Beatles had been huge for a year in the UK before they went to the USA. Many acts remain huge here without being popular stateside - look at Oasis, probably the biggest UK band since the 1970's and they don't mean much over the pond. I have no doubt Zeppelin would have been huge anyway (they were the main attraction at the 1970 Bath Festival and drew 200,000 punters. Every UK show since sold out and they could have played to farmore people than they did here). That's not to downplay the role USA had in establishing the band's popularity - that's what made them the world's biggest band, but they would have been huge in the UK anyway.

[euro]

Again, I would dispute that Deep Purple were as big/popular in Germany as Led Zeppelin.

My girlfriend of 10 years is German.

Chart History of their albums in Germany is extradordinary. I use to have the info at hand not anymore

[euro]

Are you going on actual record sales or just judging by the huge concert crowds that Queen played to there (whereas Led Zeppelin never managed to play there).

Their music is more well known and from the scant info on sales they appear to have sold more records there(which is not saying much since a country like Canada can sell more records for some rock releases than the entire South American Continent. Records are very expensive there. That is the impression i get when you speak to people from the continent.

Maybe some forum members from the region can add their perspective?

Edited June 19, 2008 by euro

[SunChild]

Statements like this over-simplify the situation. Zeppelin toured the USA from the earliest days and so their rise in popularity always had something to do with the fact that they were willing to tour there regularly. It's not as if they were nothing and then became something only after touring the USA. Of course, if you do break America - as they did - then that takes you into a different league altogether.

The Beatles had been huge for a year in the UK before they went to the USA. Many acts remain huge here without being popular stateside - look at Oasis, probably the biggest UK band since the 1970's and they don't mean much over the pond. I have no doubt Zeppelin would have been huge anyway (they were the main attraction at the 1970 Bath Festival and drew 200,000 punters. Every UK show since sold out and they could have played to farmore people than they did here). That's not to downplay the role USA had in establishing the band's popularity - that's what made them the world's biggest band, but they would have been huge in the UK anyway.

Nice post, hotdog. Excellent points.

[Mountain Hopper]

As fond as I am of our brothers in the U.K. I'd have to say there seems to be some kind of musical idiocy going on over there.

No shit! Bands like coldplay and radiohead are the soundtrack to hell for me.

[Mangani]

Manigini, you know what, I lost interest in debating this. One more thing:

I have the age to know about LZ and I AM from Continental Europe.

I very much doubt you know much about the LZ era during their peak (which wasn't at the same time as Queen's) because you obviously were not even aware that Whole Lotta Love was a number one hit single in Germany for two months in 1970.

[Mangani]

Their music is more well known

That's not really indicative of how big/popular a band is. Some bands and their music are far more well known than others, despite selling less records. If it is accessible and commercially played to death on the radio or t.v then it might be more well known than others. Queen have always been more of a mainstream pop act than Led Zeppelin.

I'll give you an example. In England, a band like Slade probably have more songs that more people know than Led Zeppelin songs.......yet they aren't as 'big' or as popular as Led Zep.

Being more 'well known' is not the same argument as being bigger/more popular.

[Mangani]

Statements like this over-simplify the situation. Zeppelin toured the USA from the earliest days and so their rise in popularity always had something to do with the fact that they were willing to tour there regularly. It's not as if they were nothing and then became something only after touring the USA. Of course, if you do break America - as they did - then that takes you into a different league altogether.

The Beatles had been huge for a year in the UK before they went to the USA. Many acts remain huge here without being popular stateside - look at Oasis, probably the biggest UK band since the 1970's and they don't mean much over the pond. I have no doubt Zeppelin would have been huge anyway (they were the main attraction at the 1970 Bath Festival and drew 200,000 punters. Every UK show since sold out and they could have played to farmore people than they did here). That's not to downplay the role USA had in establishing the band's popularity - that's what made them the world's biggest band, but they would have been huge in the UK anyway.

Yes and don't forget that the first album was released in America in Jan '69, two months before it was released in Britain. Also, critical reviews of the first album were consistently more favourable in Britain and the first album reached higher in the charts in Britain.