scs Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Unfortunately for you a certain Robert Plant is not among the many. I have said all along, check my pastings er' I mean posts...............Plant has lost it. Several other singers could do a better job. He needs to keep singing back up with Allison. scs............The TROLL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 I have said all along, check my pastings er' I mean posts...............Plant has lost it. Several other singers could do a better job. He needs to keep singing back up with Allison. scs............The TROLL ...your right about having said all along. Your posts do play like a broken record. I'm placing you on my ignore list now. Enjoy the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 That's fine by me..................your the one that keeps saying to not feed the TROLL. scs...............The TROLL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styrbjorn Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 How I wish that Page, JPJ, and Jason would put some real thought into another singer and go for it. Damn right. They could get Alison Krauss in, I've heard she's pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatbo Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 ...your right about having said all along. Your posts do play like a broken record. I'm placing you on my ignore list now. steve, how does that work, anyway? ....ahhh, i'm getting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 steve, how does that work, anyway? ....ahhh, i'm getting it. Select the My Controls (controlls?) link atop the page and scroll down to Options on the left. Select Manage Ignored Users. Add the troll of your choice and select Update Ignored Users. You'll never have to read another one of their posts here again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dharmabum Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Led Zeppelin would NOT have been what they were without Robert. No other singer would have created the chemistry and music they had with Robert. It was a success because of all FOUR of them. It's not important whether it was Jimmy's initial idea or not. The bottom line is Jimmy alone did not create the success of the band and I think he would not disagree with that. Exactly. If I had to choose, I would say Jimmy is my 'favorite' but Led Zeppelin would never have been without all four of them: the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. And by familial extension, Jason fills his father's footsteps nicely. That's why the O2 performance had much more in common with Zep of yore than the Page/Plant collaborations referenced in this thread, as good as they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Bill Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Select the My Controls (controlls?) link atop the page and scroll down to Options on the left. Select Manage Ignored Users. Add the troll of your choice and select Update Ignored Users. You'll never have to read another one of their posts here again. I've never put anyone on ignore, although I mentally ignore a few, I have a few questions. Does the troll know he's on ignore if you don't tell him? Can the ignored person still post in "your" thread? Some sites have the feature where they can't, giving the thread starter some control over content. How many people are on your list SAJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 While the Plant/Krauss collaboration strikes many as boring, it is certainly not pointless. They've pursued an artistic vision together which has resulted in a wildly successful, critically-acclaimed new album and tour. Contrast that to a pointless jam on two Led Zeppelin songs from 30+ years ago that Jimmy and JPJ can perform in their sleep. It made a lot of people happy (and seemingly themselves) and it is their perogative to do such things but all hype aside it was what it was, no more and no less. Some of us would like to see them all attempt execution of new artistic visions instead, and that is our perogative. Anyone who thinks Jones & Page joining the Foo Fighters for a couple of songs is "pointless' obviously doesn't know shit about rock n roll. "It made a lot of people happy (and seemingly themselves)" You almost succeed in making this sound like it was wrong of Jones & Page to do this. You got a lot of nerve, man. "They've pursued an artistic vision together which has resulted in a wildly successful, critically-acclaimed new album and tour. Contrast that to a pointless jam on two Led Zeppelin songs from 30+ years ago that Jimmy and JPJ can perform in their sleep" Comparing the Plant/Krauss project to Jones & Page jumping onstage with Grohl & Hawkins is both unfair and ignorant, and I'm being very nice when I say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledwallett Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 Anyone who thinks Jones & Page joining the Foo Fighters for a couple of songs is "pointless' obviously doesn't know shit about rock n roll. "It made a lot of people happy (and seemingly themselves)" You almost succeed in making this sound like it was wrong of Jones & Page to do this. You got a lot of nerve, man. "They've pursued an artistic vision together which has resulted in a wildly successful, critically-acclaimed new album and tour. Contrast that to a pointless jam on two Led Zeppelin songs from 30+ years ago that Jimmy and JPJ can perform in their sleep" Comparing the Plant/Krauss project to Jones & Page jumping onstage with Grohl & Hawkins is both unfair and ignorant, and I'm being very nice when I say that. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep41 Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Jimmy Page could arguably be the most important rock and roller to emerge in the last 50 years. I'm not saying he IS, but arguably could be. He has the right to shift to "auto pilot" in his 60s. Robert Plant owes his entire over-privledged lifestyle and career to Jimmy Page. I'm not saying that he wouldnt have been big had Page not selected him for Zep, but the fact of the world is that Robert Plant is who he is because in 1968 Page chose him to sing for the Led Zeppelin and sustained that choice throughout Zeppelin's tenure. Does that mean Robert Plant should be a slave to what Jimmy wants? No. Robert doesnt necessarily "owe" Page (or fans for that matter) anything --- but I think he forgets that he is who he is because Jimmy Page chose HIM for Zeppelin. And in that regard, fans have supported Zeppelin for 40 years like no other band in the world. So maybe in some ways, Robert does figuratively "owe" something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepaholic Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Jimmy Page could arguably be the most important rock and roller to emerge in the last 50 years. I'm not saying he IS, but arguably could be. He has the right to shift to "auto pilot" in his 60s. Robert Plant owes his entire over-privledged lifestyle and career to Jimmy Page. I'm not saying that he wouldnt have been big had Page not selected him for Zep, but the fact of the world is that Robert Plant is who he is because in 1968 Page chose him to sing for the Led Zeppelin and sustained that choice throughout Zeppelin's tenure. Does that mean Robert Plant should be a slave to what Jimmy wants? No. Robert doesnt necessarily "owe" Page (or fans for that matter) anything --- but I think he forgets that he is who he is because Jimmy Page chose HIM for Zeppelin. And in that regard, fans have supported Zeppelin for 40 years like no other band in the world. So maybe in some ways, Robert does figuratively "owe" something. Conversely, Robert's unique and dynamic vocals(and songwriting) is very much a contibuting factor in Zeppelins huge success. Does Jimmy owe Robert anything for his contributions? Of course not. No single member owes anybody jack shit. This notion of "oweing" is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep41 Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Conversely, Robert's unique and dynamic vocals(and songwriting) is very much a contibuting factor in Zeppelins huge success. Does Jimmy owe Robert anything for his contributions? Of course not. No single member owes anybody jack shit. This notion of "oweing" is absurd. couldnt agree more. Its childlike talk. Saying Robert owes us nothing is like saying I dont owe you 100 bucks for having this conversation with me - its like "well no kidding." However, if we WANT to go that route, one CAN make the argument that in some way Robert owes credit to Jimmy for chosing him for Zeppelin. Would Zeppelin have been the same without Robert? Of course not. Would Robert have been the same without Zeppelin? Of course not. Where my point lies is when I also choose to go as far as saying Robert would not have been so successful had he not been in Zeppelin. And I beleive that more than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunChild Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 I put this differently some time ago when I said Jimmy reached his artistic zenith during their Munich recording sessions in November 1975. By his own admission, he has neither the drive nor desire to maintain a solo career of his own such as Robert Plant has done. Led Zeppelin disbanded nearly 30 years ago yet some here speak as if was yesterday. Had he lived, it's like suggesting Elvis recreate 1956 in the mid-80s. Preposterous for artist and audience alike. The fault is not in the people who love Zeppelin because they are passionate about music that's 30 years old. That's like saying, what you create today is worthless after a few years. I am not ashamed to say that given the chance to hear a living Presley sing "Heartbreak Hotel" today, I'd jump at it! Jimmy sounds wonderful to me. He is a guitarist and producer whose best creations haven't aged very much, to these ears. Also, it's not music that he plays by rote, is it? It changes and evolves, even if the germ is the same. (As for your Foo fighter swipe - they rocked the house, sorry your hearing's going, I guess...) I can see the vocalist getting a little tetchy after a bit, the lyrics remain the same, and he's not as agile as he once was in the vocal gymnastics department. That does not mean Jimmy Page should never play Zeppelin again. If he was born to play Zeppelin, that's bad because - ? You want compare and contrast? I think I listened to "66 to Timbuktu" three whole times. There are one or two songs I'd cull out and listen to for enjoyment. Meanwhile, Jimmy's on '60s classics that get air play every day to this day, and I still like them after a few thousand repeats. Interesting, no? Bottom line is, Robert's artistic meanderings haven't resulted in near the ageless quality of the output of his old band. There are a handful of his solo pieces I think are classics, and I'd go see the dreaded Honeydrippers, but his solo work does not have the same quality of improvisation and striving as live Zeppelin. Rather than frame this as a comparison between Page and Plant, I agree with those who've said it has to do with the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. They all benefitted from working TOGETHER. Still and all, Plant has an amazing voice and Jimmy nurtured a punk kid into a world class singer; if you don't believe it, far as I'm concerned you're being willfully blind. Plant no longer needs to work with these guys to reach amazing heights? Fine. Maybe he can do us all a favor and come forward to publicly bless Jimmy, Jonesy and Jason with his blessing and support of them seeking a new vocalist. Otherwise, he's pretty much just fucking with everyone. The only excuse for it is if he plans on getting together with his Zeppelin bandmates in the future. (I want to believe...) Maybe when Plant is done exploring 70 year old American roots music and minor hits from the 1960s, he'll stumble upon this wonderful body of work from the '70s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myledzep Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 The fault is not in the people who love Zeppelin because they are passionate about music that's 30 years old. That's like saying, what you create today is worthless after a few years. I am not ashamed to say that given the chance to hear a living Presley sing "Heartbreak Hotel" today, I'd jump at it! Jimmy sounds wonderful to me. He is a guitarist and producer whose best creations haven't aged very much, to these ears. Also, it's not music that he plays by rote, is it? It changes and evolves, even if the germ is the same. (As for your Foo fighter swipe - they rocked the house, sorry your hearing's going, I guess...) I can see the vocalist getting a little tetchy after a bit, the lyrics remain the same, and he's not as agile as he once was in the vocal gymnastics department. That does not mean Jimmy Page should never play Zeppelin again. If he was born to play Zeppelin, that's bad because - ? You want compare and contrast? I think I listened to "66 to Timbuktu" three whole times. There are one or two songs I'd cull out and listen to for enjoyment. Meanwhile, Jimmy's on '60s classics that get air play every day to this day, and I still like them after a few thousand repeats. Interesting, no? Bottom line is, Robert's artistic meanderings haven't resulted in near the ageless quality of the output of his old band. There are a handful of his solo pieces I think are classics, and I'd go see the dreaded Honeydrippers, but his solo work does not have the same quality of improvisation and striving as live Zeppelin. Rather than frame this as a comparison between Page and Plant, I agree with those who've said it has to do with the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. They all benefitted from working TOGETHER. Still and all, Plant has an amazing voice and Jimmy nurtured a punk kid into a world class singer; if you don't believe it, far as I'm concerned you're being willfully blind. Plant no longer needs to work with these guys to reach amazing heights? Fine. Maybe he can do us all a favor and come forward to publicly bless Jimmy, Jonesy and Jason with his blessing and support of them seeking a new vocalist. Otherwise, he's pretty much just fucking with everyone. The only excuse for it is if he plans on getting together with his Zeppelin bandmates in the future. (I want to believe...) Maybe when Plant is done exploring 70 year old American roots music and minor hits from the 1960s, he'll stumble upon this wonderful body of work from the '70s... Why would Robert need to do that? He's doing his own thing and I'm sure he doesn't mind if they decide to do their own thing, whether they do it separately or together. If you mean his blessing in terms of a new vocalist to take his place under the LZ umbrella. I tend to doubt the other 3 would consider such a thing. Now a vocalist in a new musical collaboration.....that I can see and they wouldn't need Robert's blessing for that to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatbo Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 QUOTE (SteveAJones @ Jun 25 2008, 07:37 AM) Led Zeppelin disbanded nearly 30 years ago yet some here speak as if was yesterday. i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say i agree totally with this statement, and this is why i think that is the case. the music was so well conceived, produced and recorded that it sounds as though it could have come out yesterday. in many ways, zeppelin is such a presence on the market, it is as though it has never broken up. the music is sonically timeless and the band is just as compettitive as it ever was. we all have very good taste in music.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I've never put anyone on ignore, although I mentally ignore a few, I have a few questions. Does the troll know he's on ignore if you don't tell him? Can the ignored person still post in "your" thread? Some sites have the feature where they can't, giving the thread starter some control over content. How many people are on your list SAJ? The troll or ignored person would not know unless told specifically. They can still post in any thread but by virtue of being ignored the post is masked. I actually have only five forum members on my ignore list -- a Morons With Modems Hall of Fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Anyone who thinks Jones & Page joining the Foo Fighters for a couple of songs is "pointless' obviously doesn't know shit about rock n roll. "It made a lot of people happy (and seemingly themselves)" You almost succeed in making this sound like it was wrong of Jones & Page to do this. You got a lot of nerve, man. "They've pursued an artistic vision together which has resulted in a wildly successful, critically-acclaimed new album and tour. Contrast that to a pointless jam on two Led Zeppelin songs from 30+ years ago that Jimmy and JPJ can perform in their sleep" Comparing the Plant/Krauss project to Jones & Page jumping onstage with Grohl & Hawkins is both unfair and ignorant, and I'm being very nice when I say that. IMHO it wasn't wrong, just pointless. The comparison to AK/RP was drawn in response to one particular forum member (now ignored) who can't seem to understand Robert Plant and Jimmy Page continue to go in two different musical directions. Your entitled to your opinions, as I am to mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Jimmy Page could arguably be the most important rock and roller to emerge in the last 50 years. I'm not saying he IS, but arguably could be. It's certainly not an argument which can be won...Jimmy's trailing Elvis Presley...Chuck Berry...Mick Jagger...Keith Richards...John Lennon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepyep Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Hi all, The troll or ignored person would not know unless told specifically. They can still post in any thread but by virtue of being ignored the post is masked. I actually have only five forum members on my ignore list -- a Morons With Modems Hall of Fame. I made your top 5?!? Sweet Jesus,I feel better,...... KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Hi all, I made your top 5?!? Sweet Jesus,I feel better,...... KB You know better than to believe it...and please don't call me Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatbo Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 The troll or ignored person would not know unless told specifically. They can still post in any thread but by virtue of being ignored the post is masked. I actually have only five forum members on my ignore list -- a Morons With Modems Hall of Fame. that's funny, right there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 that's funny, right there... QUOTE (SteveAJones @ Jun 25 2008, 09:37 AM) I put this differently some time ago when I said Jimmy reached his artistic zenith during their Munich recording sessions in November 1975. By his own admission, he has neither the drive nor desire to maintain a solo career of his own such as Robert Plant has done. Led Zeppelin disbanded nearly 30 years ago yet some here speak as if was yesterday. Had he lived, it's like suggesting Elvis recreate 1956 in the mid-80s. Preposterous for artist and audience alike certainly not an argument which can be won...Jimmy's trailing Elvis Presley...Chuck Berry...Mick Jagger...Keith Richards...John Lennon... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The above statements are clearly debatable. Questioning Jimmy Page's supposed lack of creativity invites comparisons and contrast to the commented upon Rock and Roll icons. In terms of writing and composition what has Chuck Berry written in the last 45 years? My Ding a Ling. Stunning work there Chuck. How about all the top shelf material Keith and Mick have written lately. Name a song off their last 6 or 8 releases that's memorable. Don't overwhelm me now with all the titles. Elvis Presley never wrote a chord, riff or lyric of his own and other than Double Fantasy John Lennon put out no new product for over 8 years. What a massive creative output by the mentioned rockers. Jimmy's creative drive and ambitions were fulfilled very early on in his career and he's succeeded at a level VERY FEW have or ever will. The amount of styles he's flourished in is a rare thing because a lot of musicians just want to stay in their own bag. Page did the massive riff style to the max and I'm sure he's enjoyed taking his playing in different directions. The opinion that he's created nothing new since Munich is just that. Someone's opinion. It sure the fuck isn't mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatbo Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 QUOTE (SteveAJones @ Jun 25 2008, 09:37 AM) I put this differently some time ago when I said Jimmy reached his artistic zenith during their Munich recording sessions in November 1975. By his own admission, he has neither the drive nor desire to maintain a solo career of his own such as Robert Plant has done. Led Zeppelin disbanded nearly 30 years ago yet some here speak as if was yesterday. Had he lived, it's like suggesting Elvis recreate 1956 in the mid-80s. Preposterous for artist and audience alike certainly not an argument which can be won...Jimmy's trailing Elvis Presley...Chuck Berry...Mick Jagger...Keith Richards...John Lennon... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The above statements are clearly debatable. Questioning Jimmy Page's supposed lack of creativity invites comparisons and contrast to the commented upon Rock and Roll icons. In terms of writing and composition what has Chuck Berry written in the last 45 years? My Ding a Ling. Stunning work there Chuck. How about all the top shelf material Keith and Mick have written lately. Name a song off their last 6 or 8 releases that's memorable. Don't overwhelm me now with all the titles. Elvis Presley never wrote a chord, riff or lyric of his own and other than Double Fantasy John Lennon put out no new product for over 8 years. What a massive creative output by the mentioned rockers. Jimmy's creative drive and ambitions were fulfilled very early on in his career and he's succeeded at a level VERY FEW have or ever will. The amount of styles he's flourished in is a rare thing because a lot of musicians just want to stay in their own bag. Page did the massive riff style to the max and I'm sure he's enjoyed taking his playing in different directions. The opinion that he's created nothing new since Munich is just that. Someone's opinion. It sure the fuck isn't mine. i believe steve said:'artistic zenith' which is much different than 'nothing new since munich'. and these things do tend to happen in ebbs and flows. of course, they're debatable. muddy waters sang onstage right up to the end. where was his 'birthed in the delta, amped in chicago' NEW songs? who cares-muddy had his mojo working all down the line. i don't think his artistry ended with the withering of his new song output. chuck? when you write the first chapter of a book called 'rock and roll' i guess you earn some writer's block. by the way, your 'ding-aling' comment made me guffaw outloud. try 'reeling and rocking' from the same album(london sessions), though. smokin'... rolling stones? to be very, very honest: i loved almost every song of voodoo lounge, (song titles: 'the worst', 'got me rocking', 'love is strong' 'blinded by rainbows', suck on the jugular' and most of all 'thru and thru' which was used in a poignant episode of 'the sopranos') thought 'saint of me' was a kick ass track on bridges to babylon. bigger bang? tepid, but better live. not to mention, i have only seen the stones go on tour twice in the last 25 years without a new album to promote. and no matter what you say about the stones, they are still out there, aging before our eyes, allowing us to age as well. being honest. presley's artistry and contribution to music was never about songwriting-he's a voice and interpreter, much like sinatra in a different genre. does that make him less creative? gotta make that song new everytime you sing it, i guess.... page? although i agree that steve's opinion is debatable (and that jimmy page could fart in his sleep, record it, put his picture on the cover and i would buy it) what are you proposing as page's 'zenith' since the year 1975? i have some proposals myself: -any studio rat will argue about the creativity necessary to make a tape come alive digitally. i would suggest that pages' work on the zep catalogue, bbc sessions, HTWW, etc. would qualify as an extension of his creativity in the studio. -onstage, he has worked himselfback into the shimmering emotional visionary everytime he strikes a string. no mean feat-try it yourself sometime. yes, songwriting and new music production 'zenith'-steve has a point. the question begs, chicago: where would you place page's artistic 'zenith' or do you think he has reached it yet at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 QUOTE (SteveAJones @ Jun 25 2008, 09:37 AM) I put this differently some time ago when I said Jimmy reached his artistic zenith during their Munich recording sessions in November 1975. By his own admission, he has neither the drive nor desire to maintain a solo career of his own such as Robert Plant has done. Led Zeppelin disbanded nearly 30 years ago yet some here speak as if was yesterday. Had he lived, it's like suggesting Elvis recreate 1956 in the mid-80s. Preposterous for artist and audience alike certainly not an argument which can be won...Jimmy's trailing Elvis Presley...Chuck Berry...Mick Jagger...Keith Richards...John Lennon... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The above statements are clearly debatable. Questioning Jimmy Page's supposed lack of creativity invites comparisons and contrast to the commented upon Rock and Roll icons. In terms of writing and composition what has Chuck Berry written in the last 45 years? My Ding a Ling. Stunning work there Chuck. How about all the top shelf material Keith and Mick have written lately. Name a song off their last 6 or 8 releases that's memorable. Don't overwhelm me now with all the titles. Elvis Presley never wrote a chord, riff or lyric of his own and other than Double Fantasy John Lennon put out no new product for over 8 years. What a massive creative output by the mentioned rockers. Jimmy's creative drive and ambitions were fulfilled very early on in his career and he's succeeded at a level VERY FEW have or ever will. The amount of styles he's flourished in is a rare thing because a lot of musicians just want to stay in their own bag. Page did the massive riff style to the max and I'm sure he's enjoyed taking his playing in different directions. The opinion that he's created nothing new since Munich is just that. Someone's opinion. It sure the fuck isn't mine. Ok, let me walk you through this real slow like. The original poster suggested Jimmy is arguably the most IMPORTANT rock figure of the last 50 years. If you can debate with a straight face he had a bigger impact on society than Elvis Presley, John Lennon or Mick Jagger than mister your a better man than I. Chuck Berry, by the way, is important not so much for his back catalog as his impact on other guitarists, to include Keith Richards and Jimmy Page. Jimmy did not invent the duckwalk but he does enjoy doing it. I didn't say Jimmy hasn't created anything new since Munich, I said in my opinion he hasn't written anything remarkable since then. That is not to say I don't enjoy what he has done, as for the most part I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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