Who documents Led Zeppelin most realistically?

[Dirigible]

I've collected Zeppelin bootleg vinyl, magazine articles, pictures and books since 1972 before progressing into the CD and video age. I've read what I think is some fact and what I know is a whole lotta fiction. The media is infamous for mis-quoting so even Jones, Page, Plant and John Henry Bonham's quotes in the press can't be relied on 100%. At the very best it's damned enlightening and hard to dispute bandmember memories on the video channels.

Before telcommunications developed to the point of vulgarity I remember an article in early 1976 buried in Rolling Stone with Peter Grant. He talked about a studio album in March/April and a movie in October; what he said absolutely happened when he said it would happen. Hardcore fans disrespect Richard Cole but, like him or not, he was an insider and many, not all, of his recollections have the ice cold water slap of truth. Using that as a yardstick, who else can you trust to be authoritative? Ritchie Yorke, Chris Welch, Howard Mylett and Dave Lewis had access and sound convincing, if a bit reverent. Danny Goldberg, Lisa Robinson or Stephen Davis? Gettus realasaurus! I can show you pages of stuff in the Davis book that came word for word from the pages of Creem and Circus. Maybe I could write a book too?

Jason Bonham is the only relative I know who speaks out. Is there anyone else who's straight up?

[SteveAJones]

I've collected Zeppelin bootleg vinyl, magazine articles, pictures and books since 1972 before progressing into the CD and video age. I've read what I think is some fact and what I know is a whole lotta fiction. The media is infamous for mis-quoting so even Jones, Page, Plant and John Henry Bonham's quotes in the press can't be relied on 100%. At the very best it's damned enlightening and hard to dispute bandmember memories on the video channels.

Before telcommunications developed to the point of vulgarity I remember an article in early 1976 buried in Rolling Stone with Peter Grant. He talked about a studio album in March/April and a movie in October; what he said absolutely happened when he said it would happen. Hardcore fans disrespect Richard Cole but, like him or not, he was an insider and many, not all, of his recollections have the ice cold water slap of truth. Using that as a yardstick, who else can you trust to be authoritative? Ritchie Yorke, Chris Welch, Howard Mylett and Dave Lewis had access and sound convincing, if a bit reverent. Danny Goldberg, Lisa Robinson or Stephen Davis? Gettus realasaurus! I can show you pages of stuff in the Davis book that came word for word from the pages of Creem and Circus. Maybe I could write a book too?

Jason Bonham is the only relative I know who speaks out. Is there anyone else who's straight up?

Which Led Zeppelin-associated writers and media personalities, etc. can you trust?

Certainly Yorke & Welch are in the top tier. I would also include in no particular order: Roy Carr. Ian Coleman. Keith Altman. Pete Frame. Steve Rosen. Nick Kent. Charles Schaar Murray. JJ Jackson. Scott Muni. Gary Graff. Cameron Crowe. Chris Charlesworth. Jaan Uhelski. Chris Salewicz. Rodney Bingenheimer. Dave Schulps. Dave Lewis. Howard Mylett. Robert Godwin. Rick Barrett. Sam Rapallo.

I hope I've maintained my personal reputation for accuracy, commitment and worthwhile contributions here.

[eternal light]

I was just about to say Ritchie Yorke, and maybe Lisa Robinson and Susan Whitall?

[SteveAJones]

I was just about to say Ritchie Yorke, and maybe Lisa Robinson and Susan Whitall?

He didn't seem to appreciate the late Lisa Robinson, but I have a number of excellent interviews she conducted with them through the years, to include a very memorable one recorded with Robert in 1975 while in flight aboard The Starship:

Paraphrased:

Lisa: "...let's make a date to meet again in 1985. Do you think you'll still be performing in ten years time?".

Robert: "Provided 1984 isn't as heavy as it's predicted to be".

[Dirigible]

I've no sabers to rattle here, just looking for responsible press reporting. It's as rare as gas at two bucks a gallon.

Lisa Robinson never 'had a snidey go' at the band in the press unlike some others. She just impressed me as a young stars-in-her-eyes gossip columnist who would publish statements like how much Robert missed his wife on tour. Had I the access to the band Lisa had in 1973 I'd've written anything Robert commanded me to, too! Harmless stuff, much along the lines of Danny Goldberg, whose PR stories in Circus and others seemed sycophantic to a fault. To be fair he was a Zep hired hand, that was his job.

I'd rather read complimentary press releases about the band simply because I like them. Their music furnished the soundtrack to large portions of my life, especially when I was younger. I'm always ready to get the led out! Anyone who criticized them in the press always struck me as an idiot, a frustrated guitarist who can't get a gig so he rips on someone who can. Roy Carr or Chris Welch blasted HOTH claiming 'Zeppelin had lost their way.' Plant went so far one night as to introduce The Song Remains The Same linked with The Rain Song with a cheeky, "This is the way we lose our way." Criticism like that is as absurd as John Mendelsohn's laughable observations in Rolling Stone in 1969.

I liked Nick Kent. Didn't Bonham attack him physically once? Answering the critics is never a wise move. A scathing letter to the editor is one thing, a left jab another.

[The Rover]

I trust no Zeppelin writers. They all have their own agendas. Cameron Crowe inculded.

As a book, I enjoyed the little paperback book about Zeppelin, put out by Circus Magazine years ago.

As for visual documentation. Circus dropped the ball more often than not for the world's greatest live band. They had some good off-stage photos though.

Lisa Robinson's Creem articles were always great to look at, because of the pictures.

Perhaps some roadie, or tour member can get into the Witness Protection Program, and write the real tell-all book that Zeppelin fans would love to read. Most books just simply major only on all of the tragedies and bad things that may have happened to the band. What we need is abook that cover the power and the majesty of Zeppelin on the road, and in Concert.

[Dirigible]

Remember the whips Pamela Des Barres allegedly saw in Jimmy's suitcase in 1969? She said something along the lines of: "He didn't use them on me but I'm sure he did on other girls on the tour." Maybe the girl who said, "Yes, Jimmy whipped me and it was really good," could come forward.

Tongue-in-cheek, of course, Rover, you know only the music matters to me. But I love me jokes.

I got one for you! Remember the old TV commercial with the eggs cracked in the skillet and the DA voiced narrator would intone: "This is your brain, this your brain on drugs, any questions?"

"Yeah, man, can I have some bacon with that?"

Now, where were we, ah yes, the whips . . .

[Roxie]

Remember the whips Pamela Des Barres allegedly saw in Jimmy's suitcase in 1969? She said something along the lines of: "He didn't use them on me but I'm sure he did on other girls on the tour." Maybe the girl who said, "Yes, Jimmy whipped me and it was really good," could come forward.

Ha! Wouldn't that make for a great book? The insiders with the best stories will probably never tell all though. Unfortunately!!

[SteveAJones]

I'd like to issue a correction to a previous post of mine. That 1975 interview with Robert aboard the Starship was conducted for radio broadcast by Alison Steele, not Lisa Robinson.

[The Rover]

Ha! Wouldn't that make for a great book? The insiders with the best stories will probably never tell all though. Unfortunately!!

This is Important !!

Really ! !

The Library of Congres should go around and interview various groupies, fans, girls, that had 'experiences' with the band... for the sake of posterity.

[MadScreamingGallery]

He didn't seem to appreciate the late Lisa Robinson, but I have a number of excellent interviews she conducted with them through the years, to include a very memorable one recorded with Robert in 1975 while in flight aboard The Starship:

Paraphrased:

Lisa: "...let's make a date to meet again in 1985. Do you think you'll still be performing in ten years time?".

Robert: "Provided 1984 isn't as heavy as it's predicted to be".

As far as I know, Lisa Robinson is still alive. She is a writer and editor for Vanity Fair magazine.

[MadScreamingGallery]

I'd like to issue a correction to a previous post of mine. That 1975 interview with Robert aboard the Starship was conducted for radio broadcast by Alison Steele, not Lisa Robinson.

Alison Steele, "The Night Bird" is no longer with us. She died of cancer about ten years ago. She was one of my very favorite DJs.

[IluvJimmyPage]

Alison Steele, "The Night Bird" is no longer with us. She died of cancer about ten years ago. She was one of my very favorite DJs.

Yeah MSG - I remember falling asleep to her show every night it was on back then She was really great. "Come, fly with me-Alison Steele, the Night Bird"

[MadScreamingGallery]

Yeah MSG - I remember falling asleep to her show every night it was on back then She was really great. "Come, fly with me-Alison Steele, the Night Bird"

There were many nights when I did the same thing! Alison Steele was gorgeous and her voice was so beautiful. I get chills just thinking about it - lying in the dark, hearing her voice, and then waiting to hear what great music she would play. I also liked Scott Muni - he was at my first Zep concert. I'm sure you remember that the Zep guys would sometimes come on the air or record announcements for the station. It was a great era in rock radio and WNEW was the best.

[SteveAJones]

I also liked Scott Muni - he was at my first Zep concert. I'm sure you remember that the Zep guys would sometimes come on the air or record announcements for the station. It was a great era in rock radio and WNEW was the best.

Jimmy visited Scott at WNEW FM studios on the rainy afternoon of June 9th 1977 and granted an on-air interview in-between Madison Square Garden concerts. During this visit Jimmy apparently fell asleep on the studio floor.

When Jimmy was promoting his Outrider album he called Scott from England and their

conversation was aired on WNEW later. I have both recordings available in my archive.

[IluvJimmyPage]

Jimmy visited Scott at WNEW FM studios on the rainy afternoon of June 9th 1977 and granted an on-air interview in-between Madison Square Garden concerts. During this visit Jimmy apparently fell asleep on the studio floor.

When Jimmy was promoting his Outrider album he called Scott from England and their

conversation was aired on WNEW later. I have both recordings available in my archive.

Those must be great recordings Steve! I would really love to hear them.

[huw]

Certainly Yorke & Welch are in the top tier. I would also include in no particular order: Roy Carr. Ian Coleman. Keith Altman. Pete Frame. Steve Rosen. Nick Kent. Charles Schaar Murray. JJ Jackson. Scott Muni. Gary Graff. Cameron Crowe. Chris Charlesworth. Jaan Uhelski. Chris Salewicz. Rodney Bingenheimer. Dave Schulps. Dave Lewis. Howard Mylett. Robert Godwin. Rick Barrett. Sam Rapallo.

I hope I've maintained my personal reputation for accuracy, commitment and worthwhile contributions here.

Just to make a comment about Steve Rosen, SAJ.

Rosen, for anyone who doesn't know, has written for guitar magazines, & done interviews with Jimmy from that perspective.

There are a number of people who know both their Zep, & their guitars, who have Rosen pinned as a source of mis-information about Page's equipment. For those who care about such things it's always enjoyable to read info about Jimmy's guitars, amps & asorted paraphenalia. Unfortunately there are a few of Rosen's articles which have become "source material" for other people, despite containing a number of mistakes about the gear. His articles gets reused in others; those articles are themselves reused etc.

Result? There are a lot of conflicting myths, legends & rumours about the gear & it takes some patient research to really get to the bottom of things.

So beware - he's genuine, but can contain errors. (I'm not going to go into examples & discussion here, as that would be a hijack of this thread)

In fact - guitar magazines in general are prone to do this "recycling as research" thing. There are several instances where I can show one original article as sole source for numbers of further articles which are then published with the fresh authenticity of "new feature". The unwary fan may then asume that this info is golden because there are five articles whoch say the same thing, when in fact there is really just one original article, & four partial copies.

[Otto Masson]

I have myself tried my hand at these things a little. The thing is that errors creep in very easily - people often underestimate the amount of work needed just to keep them to a minimum. Writing really good, reliable books on a topic like Led Zeppelin is a LOT of hard work. Steve A. Jones already mentioned most of the better authorities on the band - including some I didn't know about.

From my own perspective Keith Shadwick, Ritchie Yorke and Dave Lewis stand out as being the most useful, each in his own way. The books tend to have different strengths of course, so you'll use them differently. Shadwick brings a very knowledgeable musical perspective to his account of the band, and I find his opinions usually worth consulting and thinking about. Yorke's book is a relatively detailed history of the band, pretty accurate, and it's easy to find things in it - but a name index would still have been useful (publisher's fault). Dave Lewis, aside from all his other writings on the band, compiled The Concert File with Simon Pallett. Despite the inevitable few errors here and there it's a real achievement, certainly one of the books I consult most often (then leafing through Luis Rey's Led Zeppelin Live to me is sort of like bonus material )

I too have noticed the recycling of material in the guitar mags, huw. Guitar World in my experience is the most useful, at least for original interviews. On the other hand, Steve Rosen's 1977 Guitar Player interview with Pagey is simply a classic.

[rainydaywoman]

I like the Keith Shadwick book and don't feel like I need any of the others. It gives a bit of insight into the personalities behind Led Zeppelin but focuses on the music rather than raunchy stories.

A more devoted fan would probably read them just to be familiar with them, but I made the decision not to read Stairway to Heaven or Hammer of the Gods because some of the stories I had already encountered in articles or other books were very, very upsetting, especially to a female fan and a fan who detests violence. My feelings about the band had already been damaged by some of the things written about John Bonham, who unfortunately isn’t here to contradict any of them. Why poison my mind with that stuff if I have no way of knowing what's true? Robert Plant said in an interview that about half of Hammer of the Gods is true. Which half?

Full disclosure: I've loved listening to LZ since high school. I still have my old vinyl copies of their records, hand-me-downs from my big sister. I've always been deeply moved by their music and found it absorbing. But only over the last year, after watching concert footage (holy shit, where has this been all my life?), did I become at all curious about the history of the band. Unlike some of the people here I'm definately not a LZ encyclopedia.

[Dirigible]

I like the Keith Shadwick book and don't feel like I need any of the others. It gives a bit of insight into the personalities behind Led Zeppelin but focuses on the music rather than raunchy stories.

A more devoted fan would probably read them just to be familiar with them, but I made the decision not to read Stairway to Heaven or Hammer of the Gods because some of the stories I had already encountered in articles or other books were very, very upsetting, especially to a female fan and a fan who detests violence. My feelings about the band had already been damaged by some of the things written about John Bonham, who unfortunately isn’t here to contradict any of them. Why poison my mind with that stuff if I have no way of knowing what's true? Robert Plant said in an interview that about half of Hammer of the Gods is true. Which half?

Full disclosure: I've loved listening to LZ since high school. I still have my old vinyl copies of their records, hand-me-downs from my big sister. I've always been deeply moved by their music and found it absorbing. But only over the last year, after watching concert footage (holy shit, where has this been all my life?), did I become at all curious about the history of the band. Unlike some of the people here I'm definately not a LZ encyclopedia.

12 & 35, they'll stone you when you're tryin' to be so good . . . go ahead and read Hammer of the Gods AND Stairway to Heaven. I just re-read the latter and was surprised at how tame it is. I don't care what anybody says those books are fun reads. I think what most fans don't like about them is both books humanize Led Zeppelin, strips away the mystique/image, makes them seem like everyday people.

Crank up the Led to about 7 or 8 while you're reading.

[huw]

I too have noticed the recycling of material in the guitar mags, huw. Guitar World in my experience is the most useful, at least for original interviews.

...original interviews is the key thing there. But GW are just as guilty as everybody else of accompanying a new interview with a side piece they've put together from the archives with no input from Page. This can seem to give the side piece the same authenticity as the main interview, which fools a lot of people.

On the other hand, Steve Rosen's 1977 Guitar Player interview with Pagey is simply a classic.

A classic, true, but not faultless. IIRC that's the interview that mis-quotes Page & gives the tuning for Kashmir & BMS as being BADGAD instead if DADGAD (which is correct)

[Dirigible]

...original interviews is the key thing there. But GW are just as guilty as everybody else of accompanying a new interview with a side piece they've put together from the archives with no input from Page. This can seem to give the side piece the same authenticity as the main interview, which fools a lot of people.

A classic, true, but not faultless. IIRC that's the interview that mis-quotes Page & gives the tuning for Kashmir & BMS as being BADGAD instead if DADGAD (which is correct)

Wasn't Page still keeping his special tunings to himself in 1977? When Rosen asked about them in that interview I recall Page saying something like the tunings were 'professional secrets' and he didn't care to discuss them.

Considering John Paul Jones was leaning heavily on Rosen at the time I'm not surprised there weren't more inaccuracies in Guitar Player. Traveling in the entourage aboard Caesar's Chariot Rosen was instructed not to make eye contact with the band, not to talk to them unless they spoke first, same with Cole and Grant, don't talk about anything except music, leave his tape recorder off unless granted an interview, and watch out what he wrote because the band would read it and eventually see Rosen again. Led Blankets?

Thanks to Steve A. Jones who published a link that furnished that information. Also this tale about the '77 tour told by a lighting tech who worked about 10 feet from Pagey on the stage while the band performed. He said he was privy to some conversations between Page and Plant that no one else could hear, i.e. Plant would introduce a song and Page would ask him 'how's that one go again' and Plant would have to sing the riff to Page to get him to remember. Scary, but funny.