The Guitarists Thread

[Evermore]

No doubt Jimmy inspired legions of us to pick up an axe and learn to play. I'm interested in seeing what Zep fans do to get that Pagey tone and what Jimmy has done to get that Pagey tone. Sure, there's lots of documentation on what he has used on tour and in the studio, but I thought it would be fun to discuss here as well. Anything is up for discussion; questions, lessons learned, tips recommendations, setups for particular songs. Clips are also welcome. Let's hear your what you've got.

Let me start by describing my own setup. I'm just a home guitarist mind you so its not the most elaborate rig.

Guitars:

1976 Les Paul Tobacco Sunburst.(See my avatar)

2000 Fender Stratocaster

Amp:

VOX AD50VT a very versatile modeling amp

Effects:

MXR Dynacomp (81)

Digitech Wah/Whammy pedal,

Boss Blues Driver,

Boss SuperOverdrive,

Boss DD-20 Delay

Recording:

Line6 Toneport used as a PC Interface.

[Jim]

No doubt Jimmy inspired legions of us to pick up an axe and learn to play. I'm interested in seeing what Zep fans do to get that Pagey tone and what Jimmy has done to get that Pagey tone. Sure, there's lots of documentation on what he has used on tour and in the studio, but I thought it would be fun to discuss here as well. Anything is up for discussion; questions, lessons learned, tips recommendations, setups for particular songs. Clips are also welcome. Let's hear your what you've got.

Let me start by describing my own setup. I'm just a home guitarist mind you so its not the most elaborate rig.

Guitars:

1976 Les Paul Tobacco Sunburst.(See my avatar)

2000 Fender Stratocaster

Amp:

VOX AVT50 a very versatile modeling amp

Effects:

Digitech Wah/Whammy pedal,

Boss Blues Driver,

Boss SuperOverdrive,

Boss DD-20 Delay

Recording:

Line6 Toneport used as a PC Interface.

I have a VOX AD30VT amp... Great little amp!

[danelectro]

I'm not really a fan of Jimmy's tone, well I'm not a fan of his live tone. Usually I go for a more "hollow" sound, think SRV's tone on his version of Mary Had A Little Lamb. But I do wind it up a bit from time to time but my tone is more like early Angus Young than Jimmy.

Guitars;

Gibson SG '61 reissue

Gibson Les Paul Standard

Gibson SG Classic (gotta love P-90's)

Fender AVRI Thin Skin '62 Strat

Fender AVRI Thin Skin '62 Tele

Fender Geddy Lee Jazz Bass

Takamine JJ325SRC John Jorgenson Sig Model

Supro Lap Steel

Amps;

'76 Silverface Fender Deluxe Reverb

Epiphone Valve Junior W\mods

Fargen Mini-Plex (this amp rules)

Fender BXR100 bass amp

Fender Acoustasonic 30

Effects;

Crybaby

Barber Launch Pad

MI Audio Crunch Box

MJM Blues Devil

Homebrew Compressor Retro

Homebrew THC chorus

Ibanez DE-7 Delay

Ibanez Flanger FL-9

MXR Phase 90

Homebrew UFO Fuzz\Octave

Fulltone Deja'Vibe

MKS Pedal Pad XL Pedal Board

Drums;

Gretsch Catalina Club Jazz

[Stargazer]

Amp:

Vox AD50 VT

guitars:

Fender standard satin strat

fender classic player 60s strat (Probably getting in the mail tomorrow)

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

Epiphone Heritage Cherry Sunburst Les Paul

Epiphone Black Beauty

Fender Stratocaster

Violin bow

MGHDFX 150 watt Marshall

Crate 120 combo amp

Gator Grip .96 picks

Ernie Ball Super Slinkys

MXR Phase 90 (not the Eddie Van Halen style)

Crybaby Wah

I set my Marshall to OD2 (overdrive 2) with treble: 10, middle: 0-4, and bass: 0-2

[Evster2012]

[redrum]

Anyone here play a nylon string?

[spatdrastik]

To keep this from becoming a post a pic of your instruments thread, I'll give everyone something cool to practice on/warm up with. It's also great to get used to playing scales up and down the neck instead of just across it in one position, and as a bonus it gives some insight (if you analyze it) on how scales and chords work together...get this down fast (16ths at 160 bps or higher) and you get a cascading flurry of notes that sounds really cool.

It's running a simple 3 note arpeggio thru the scale tones

the first thing is to play a scale(can be any scale you want) ascending on the high E string(of course you can use other strings, but for simplicity I'll use the high E). For this example I'll use the G major scale starting on the 3rd fret. The scale looks like this 3rd fret/5th/7th/8th/10th/12th/14th/15th (G,A B C D E F# G). The arpeggios will be simple minor triads starting with c minor...these will be the top 3 strings of a 5th string root note minor barre chord. The first pattern is E string 3rd fret(G) B string 4th fret(Eb in the context of the C minor triad, D# in the context of G major , but that's a subject for later)G string 5th fret ©, move the whole thing up to the next scale tone and repeat, and so on...when you get to the top play the whole thing descending.

A cool variation is to alternate between ascending and descending the arpeggios and sliding to the next scale tone or root of the arpeggio to get to the next one

An interesting thing is that if you look at the chords the arpeggios are based on (root on the 5th) the root notes form a C major scale

You can apply this technique to any type of scale, and be more adventerous with the arpeggios

If you find yourself stuck playing minor pentatonics all the time this will help get you out of it

Have Fun!

[electricmage]

As I've said before, Page has/had a plethora of tones at his disposal.

As far as my tone, just got my JCM800 biased to carry 6550's. Just got it back today, haven't cranked it up yet. I use Les Paul styled guitars, with EMG 81 and EMG 60A. Beautiful tone. I never wanted EMG's. But when I heard how clear the overdriven pre-amp in them was, I was blown away. Such beautiful gain.

I'm in the process of looking for an Ampeg Vl-1002. Anything modded by Lee Jackson carries an attenuator in the amp. I can't crank my amp past two w/o blowing my ear drums.

[Big Klu]

I halfass Van Halen'ed my guitar.

Got a BC Rich warlock budget model for $35.

Had to:

make it lefty. Finagling the nut.

make it worthy for Clash/Joy Division playing, not glam metal

cooler body than the horny warlock

Tried to make it a 'Hendrixed' Fender Swinger-type body from what I could work with.

I'll probably forgo the sticker-it-to-death route and go hippy and draw all over it. I'm just to lazy to come up with a Fool-like design that has punkass street cred. and such.

Electronics the same, so it sounds like crap and its top heavy from the lefty strap placement, but wtf..... its new wave/punk grabs baybeeee!

[Evermore]

As I've said before, Page has/had a plethora of tones at his disposal.

One of my goals with this thread is to get at each one of those tones. Not necessarily the exact equipment used by Jimmy although that would be nice, but the strategies each of us might use in achieving a specific tone for a specific song whether its the studio or live version.

I like the contributions so far. The pics are very cool. So three of us have Vox modelers... settings ? I like the UK 70's with the gain turned up three quarters.

And spatdrastik, thanks for the scales tips. Watching the DVDs again latel, one of the things that stood out in my mind is how Jimmy moves up and down the neck while he's playing his solos.

[Led Zep Fan]

I'm playing an 03 Les Paul 58 Ri through a 1981 JCM 800 2x12 (6550s). I have WCR Darkbursts in the LP with a RS kit as well. It sounds pretty good.... alright, it's awsome! My band is opening up for Shaw/Blades tonight in Allentown PA, but it's an acoustic gig.. wish me luck!

[GioBrasil]

The last pic show what make ya play better, right?

Good see Your Excellency here again!

[Stargazer]

since this is a guitar thread, I thought I could ask a little question.

are you a fender og gibson person?

stratocasters are my passion.

Not that I don't like les pauls, nothing sounds like a good paul.

But I have a problem with the playability, and the fact that

you have to have a realy good one for it to shine.

I have played a lot of les pauls that sound like crap, expensive ones even.

I've tried my fare share of bad strats too, but not in the high price range.

Tried a really nice paul ones, custom, really expensive.

But when I played it, the frets where crap, sound was dead and the thing

was heavy as hell.

[danelectro]

since this is a guitar thread, I thought I could ask a little question.

are you a fender og gibson person?

stratocasters are my passion.

Not that I don't like les pauls, nothing sounds like a good paul.

But I have a problem with the playability, and the fact that

you have to have a realy good one for it to shine.

I have played a lot of les pauls that sound like crap, expensive ones even.

I've tried my fare share of bad strats too, but not in the high price range.

Tried a really nice paul ones, custom, really expensive.

But when I played it, the frets where crap, sound was dead and the thing

was heavy as hell.

IMO I find Fender's production stuff to be more hit or miss than Gibson's, especially Strat's. So many of the new American Standard Strat's don't even sound like a classic Strat any more. To get a good one you have to look into an American Vintage model or better. In my experience it's been much easier to find quality Gibson models that are comparable in tone and playability to the original models that are good to go out of the box. That said I only have Fender and Gibson electric guitars and all of mine spend a day at the tech before I even consider playing it, no guitar is what I consider ready to play set up to crummy factory spec.

[Scratch]

I personally prefer the rich crunchy sound of the new 2007 Takahimikaki DR 4900 with 08 gauge XM40 brand strings; pushing loads with a JKM 5900 (1x 10, 2x 12 ... with a 16" super woofer[5666s]) set at 60ohm at a rate of -7dmz and topping off at an envelope of +12ppl. I have a WCM Flurpy Flippity Flam in the 7883 BCH to run 67 wrex pods down a 58" 37z kit.

The best effects are a Plazer Filter Phase set at 0.012 ascention and 0.009+=0.13 declension, and a Fuzz Muffin '69 ... you know the one that Daryl Skleem of the Mass Plasticators used back in 1991 on the 2nd OMFG WTF Tour.

Tonight I'm playing an acoustic gig. Im going to use a Taylor.

~666

[Evermore]

My band is opening up for Shaw/Blades tonight in Allentown PA, but it's an acoustic gig.. wish me luck!

Thats awesome. Break a leg, alright? I hope you record your performance.

[Stargazer]

IMO I find Fender's production stuff to be more hit or miss than Gibson's, especially Strat's. So many of the new American Standard Strat's don't even sound like a classic Strat any more. To get a good one you have to look into an American Vintage model or better. In my experience it's been much easier to find quality Gibson models that are comparable in tone and playability to the original models that are good to go out of the box. That said I only have Fender and Gibson electric guitars and all of mine spend a day at the tech before I even consider playing it, no guitar is what I consider ready to play set up to crummy factory spec.

the problem I have with les pauls, is material.

good mahogany is rare, and what is about is not used by Gibson.

The few times they get a decent board it normally goes to the custom shop.

by a good board I mean one that is light and resonant.

one that has little crystallized minerals in them, the kind you rarely find

in Africa, where most of the mahogany these days come from.

That kind of mahogany is great for furniture, terrible for guitars.

As for fender an quality control, I can agree, both Gibson and fender are at times

terrible at quality control. But the thing with strats is that good quality material is

much easier acquired. order a strat from someone like john suhr or Tom Anderson.

perfect guitars that can be acquired at lower prices than a custom shop Gibson or fender.

quality: impeccable, options: numerous and exclusivity: unmatched.

as long as you don't go for the insanely rare woods and options that is...

to get a custom built les paul type guitar at the same quality, you will have to pay

a far greater price than what you get a equal strat type guitar for.

[danelectro]

the problem I have with les pauls, is material.

good mahogany is rare, and what is about is not used by Gibson.

The few times they get a decent board it normally goes to the custom shop.

by a good board I mean one that is light and resonant.

one that has little crystallized minerals in them, the kind you rarely find

in Africa, where most of the mahogany these days come from.

That kind of mahogany is great for furniture, terrible for guitars.

No doubt tone woods are in short supply but so much more goes into building a great electric guitar and I don't think woods make the HUGE difference most people do. I once had a reputable luthier, one who earned his stripes at Gruhn Guitars and now builds his own stuff for the stars and those with enough cash to afford his creations, explain the affect of tone woods have on electric guitars to me like this. First he explained that woods make a big difference for acoustic instruments but not as much as with electric guitars. He went on to explain that the body of an electric guitar is like the chassis of a car, he used Mustang's as an example, and that the pickups and guts are like a car's motor. If you have two identical Mustang chassis, one that has a 6 cylinder and one that has a V8 and your goal is to go fast the V8 out performs every time. While that may be an over simplification it does explain why todays cheapy guitars like the poly coated Schecter C1-Classic sounds so good with the Seymour Duncan pickups they put in it, swap those out for some crummy Chinese made Epiphone humbuckers and the tone varies greatly. Likewise if you took the PAFS out of a real 1959 and put those in the Epi it would sound pretty close to the way the 1959 sounded if you swapped the rest of the guts and the same would happen if you put the Chinese junk in the 1959, it would cease to sound the way it did. Make no mistake pickups and other parts make a HUGE difference in the overall tone of an electric guitar and with so many boutique and custom pickup builders out there making stuff to sound like the golden tones of yesteryear it's easier than ever to get closer to that magic tone we all seek.

IMO even though wood does make some difference it's not as big a difference as how the guitar is finished and equipped. You can still take a half decent piece of mahogany and make a nice instrument if it's well crafted, by that I mean not made in a sweat shop buy a worker who thinks fine detail is spraying 1/8" of poly coat over a piece of wood that's been pushed through a machine by an old Asian lady who makes $3.80 a day.

Sure a new LP Standard isn't the same as a 1959 Burst but it's not so different that the tone isn't recognizable as classic Les Paul tone. The big gripe most have is weight relief but again I don't think that makes the huge differene others do. IMO the guitars we can buy now are as good as anything made in that last 40 years or so and we should feel lucky companies like Fender and Gibson still make an effort to sell us guitars made in the image of the classics.

BTW I see no need to buy anything but the real thing as long as Fender and Gibson are still making good stuff. I can see past the sales pitches and bad mouthing by the likes of Ed Roman and others. I've been playing since the 70's and I've owned some nice vintage stuff including a 1964 Strat and I feel the 07 Thin Skin Fender's I know own are as good or better than that 64 was and I certainly think my 03 Standard is better than my 1978 LP Custom was.

[Henrik]

I have a Fender "highway one" Tele.

[spatdrastik]

I like cheap guitars. About the only things I'm really picky about are tuners. I tend to sound like me no matter what guitar I play so as long as the pickups aren't horribly microphonic or noisy they'll do. Same with amps..as far as effects I like to use an overdrive (bad monkey is the current one) and a crybaby or vox wah, but I'm just as likely to just plug straight in. I'm more into the playing side of it than the gear...I don't need a thousand dollar screwdriver

[danelectro]

I like cheap guitars. About the only things I'm really picky about are tuners. I tend to sound like me no matter what guitar I play so as long as the pickups aren't horribly microphonic or noisy they'll do. Same with amps..as far as effects I like to use an overdrive (bad monkey is the current one) and a crybaby or vox wah, but I'm just as likely to just plug straight in. I'm more into the playing side of it than the gear...I don't need a thousand dollar screwdriver

Honestly there's no need to go overboard with spending, todays budget guitars are damn good for what you spend. I don't think a $350 guitar is the same as a $3500 guitar but the difference isn't as big as the price would have you think. Those that spend up for the "extra's" like Custom Shop guitars with nitrocellulose lacquer finishes and long tenon neck joints are usually the players chasing that last 2% of good tone or what ever. And yeah none of that matters if you sound like you whether you are playing Jimmy Page's 59 or the $89 StarCaster your grandma bought you at the mall. I played guitar for nearly 25 years before I decided it was worth it to spend more than 1K on a guitar. Anything expensive I had before that was traded for or stolen, not by me but I have bought a few "hot" guitars in my day. I wouldn't now but I have.

[spatdrastik]

lol I played for 25 years before I decided I didn't want a $1,000 guitar. I just shake my head when I see some kid who can barely play with a high dollar axe

guitars don't make you play better, dedication and practice do

[danelectro]

guitars don't make you play better, dedication and practice do

I agree with one exception, if the guitar is so bad it hinders playing properly. I had to struggle with old Teisco's and guitars bought from Sears, not the cool stuff but the junk from the mid 70's, when I was starting out. Some of those felt like they were strung with razor wire, no amount of dedication and practice can overcome that. I didn't think that would be an issue now but my biz partner just bought his 10 yr old one of those Sguier Starcaster's from Sam's club, they brought it to the office thinking I could dish out some pointers. I couldn't get it to tune up, I'm sure much of that had to do with the awful steel strings it came with but as I noodled with it I could tell there wasn't much playabilty there. The crummy tuners and awful floating bridge are bound to give players of all abilities fits.

[spatdrastik]

I agree with one exception, if the guitar is so bad it hinders playing properly. I had to struggle with old Teisco's and guitars bought from Sears, not the cool stuff but the junk from the mid 70's, when I was starting out. Some of those felt like they were strung with razor wire, no amount of dedication and practice can overcome that. I didn't think that would be an issue now but my biz partner just bought his 10 yr old one of those Sguier Starcaster's from Sam's club, they brought it to the office thinking I could dish out some pointers. I couldn't get it to tune up, I'm sure much of that had to do with the awful steel strings it came with but as I noodled with it I could tell there wasn't much playabilty there. The crummy tuners and awful floating bridge are bound to give players of all abilities fits.

yeah like I said earlier the only thing I am really picky about are tuners...and I avoid guitars with floating trems all together(although occasionally I'll be asked to sit in and get stuck with one..drive me crazy cuz I love double stop bends)