Could I have some more salt on my English?

[manderlyh]

Sunchild, German and Dutch are very similar. They're close enough to both be considered their own languages (as opposed to dialects), but they are close.

Dutch is also a Germanic language, (and obviously, German's a Germanic language, LOL), so the roots of the language are very close.

My linguistics teacher said that languages that have evolved within the same "language family" originally were the same languages, but they just slowly morphed into different dialects, and eventually into their own languages. (I looked through my notebooks for exactly what she said, but I'm failing to find the stuff right now.)

Under the Germanic umbrella are languages like Old English, Old Norse, Old Dutch, Old High German, Old Frisian. Other languages that are descendants of these include Icelandic, Norwegian, Swedish, Dutch, German, Frisian and others including Pennsylvania German (I think my notes should have said Dutch?), and modern English. Meaning they're all distant cousins of each other.

[Gainsbarre]

Sunchild, German and Dutch are very similar. They're close enough to both be considered their own languages (as opposed to dialects), but they are close.

Dutch is also a Germanic language, (and obviously, German's a Germanic language, LOL), so the roots of the language are very close.

Hungarian is the most interesting one in Europe because it's not an Indo-European language (whose decendents are most of the European languages) but it's an Ugric language which I believe hails from old eastern Siberia.

[led_zep_girl_92]

Your English is better than the English of some of the native speakers in here. You should teach English to some of the English speakers in here. Have you read many of the threads? I am serious.

Is that sad for those native speakers you mentioned or is it good for me?

Hmmm...Could be both.

But thanks anyway

[Gainsbarre]

Is that sad for those native speakers you mentioned or is it good for me?

Definately sad for those native speakers...

[manderlyh]

The thing is, from a linguistic point of view, as long as we say what we mean to say (and not say something on accident, like a flub-up or whatever), "improper" use of language, as in use of "non-standard" language (English in this case) is NOT incorrect.

I don't mind certain things like misspellings as long as they're recognizeable and the writer doesn't have 100 in a 200 word piece. I also don't mind many grammatical errors, as long as I can read what is written or understand what is said without as much as a second thought to the speaker/author's intent of communication.

I think that some people do get a little on their high horse with certain things like this. (I'm not 100% innocent, you see...)

My boyfriend grew up in the southern US, and he's live about the same amount of time in the norther part of the US. Therefore, he says things that crack me up but make him mad when I snicker. He confuses his idioms and collocations sometimes to the point where I have to ask him what the hell he means. He also uses expressions that I have never heard before. But does this mean he doesn't know how to properly use the language? No. His literacy skills in English are fine, so are his writing skills. He just speaks strangely--as in strangely in my opinion.

Spoken language or language in conversational manner, like here in the forums, doesn't bother me if it's not 100% "standard English." It's when we start speaking in text speak or posting in text speak or using language that makes you look like a complete moron that does bother me. LOL

...and oh yeah: one thing that I have absolutely NO tolerance for (and never have--since I was in elementary school even--)is misuse of apostrophes. Talk about looking goofy by putting apostrophes where they don't belong!

I promise not to nitpick on apostrophes as long as you're not one of my eighth graders.

[Gainsbarre]

The only thing that really gets me mad in English, is the saying "the proof of the pudding is in the eating". I had a huge argument with someone one day who claimed the saying was "the proof is in the pudding".

[manderlyh]

^lol

I don't really even know the meaning of that one.

That's not one I've heard a lot.

[Gainsbarre]

^lol

I don't really even know the meaning of that one.

That's not one I've heard a lot.

It's probably more English than American

It means the only way you can actually tell if it's a pudding is if you eat it, so it's often used when people are talking about things when experience or partaking in something gives you a better understanding

[eagle87]

Im trying with some Translators... But they are not good. I don't realy know if my english is good or not. Some time I mix the past verb with the present... Makes me feel stupid.. but im doing my best without a teacher...

I ask you (all) to let me know if I write something rong (not every time.. obviously. I don't want to bother you)

All the English that I know, I learned from here, Music, TV (Friends and Dr. House, besides others) and games.

[manderlyh]

It's probably more English than American

It means the only way you can actually tell if it's a pudding is if you eat it, so it's often used when people are talking about things when experience or partaking in something gives you a better understanding

I figured that's what it meant. I've heard it before here and there, but I don't think people use it around here much at all.

Im trying with some Translators... But they are not good. I don't realy know if my english is good or not. Some time I mix the past verb with the present... Makes me feel stupid.. but im doing my best without a teacher...

I ask you (all) to let me know if I write something rong (not every time.. obviously. I don't want to bother you)

All the English that I know, I learned from here, Music, TV (Friends and Dr. House, besides others) and games.

I've never had any issues reading your posts.

I'm going to school to be an English teacher, and I've worked one-on-one with many people who are learning English as something other than their first language. Everyone who is learning English (or any language for that matter) has issues with their verbs. Don't worry about it! More practice will make you better at it!

[SunChild]

But at least my English will be better than your German ...Hopefully

Your English is very good. English is a difficult langauge to learn because the words come from all over the place, so they don't always make sense.

Sunchild, German and Dutch are very similar. They're close enough to both be considered their own languages (as opposed to dialects), but they are close.

Dutch is also a Germanic language, (and obviously, German's a Germanic language, LOL), so the roots of the language are very close.

My linguistics teacher said that languages that have evolved within the same "language family" originally were the same languages, but they just slowly morphed into different dialects, and eventually into their own languages. (I looked through my notebooks for exactly what she said, but I'm failing to find the stuff right now.)

Under the Germanic umbrella are languages like Old English, Old Norse, Old Dutch, Old High German, Old Frisian. Other languages that are descendants of these include Icelandic, Norwegian, Swedish, Dutch, German, Frisian and others including Pennsylvania German (I think my notes should have said Dutch?), and modern English. Meaning they're all distant cousins of each other.

Thanks Manders. No need to look up the notes, I believe you.

The thing is, from a linguistic point of view, as long as we say what we mean to say (and not say something on accident, like a flub-up or whatever), "improper" use of language, as in use of "non-standard" language (English in this case) is NOT incorrect.

I don't mind certain things like misspellings as long as they're recognizeable and the writer doesn't have 100 in a 200 word piece. I also don't mind many grammatical errors, as long as I can read what is written or understand what is said without as much as a second thought to the speaker/author's intent of communication.

I think that some people do get a little on their high horse with certain things like this. (I'm not 100% innocent, you see...)

My boyfriend grew up in the southern US, and he's live about the same amount of time in the norther part of the US. Therefore, he says things that crack me up but make him mad when I snicker. He confuses his idioms and collocations sometimes to the point where I have to ask him what the hell he means. He also uses expressions that I have never heard before. But does this mean he doesn't know how to properly use the language? No. His literacy skills in English are fine, so are his writing skills. He just speaks strangely--as in strangely in my opinion.

Spoken language or language in conversational manner, like here in the forums, doesn't bother me if it's not 100% "standard English." It's when we start speaking in text speak or posting in text speak or using language that makes you look like a complete moron that does bother me. LOL

...and oh yeah: one thing that I have absolutely NO tolerance for (and never have--since I was in elementary school even--)is misuse of apostrophes. Talk about looking goofy by putting apostrophes where they don't belong!

I promise not to nitpick on apostrophes as long as you're not one of my eighth graders.

Love the story about your boyfriend. So much depends on context and culture. When we were in England last year, we were having dinner at this pub and I walked over to the bar to order a couple of beers. The bartender asked where we were sitting and I said, "down there", pointing over to the right behind me. I completely overlooked that the dining area was a couple of steps higher than the bar, and he looked at me like I was from Mars and said "you Americans [head shake] don't you mean UP there?" Which I suppose I did, really. But I meant down there, too.

In America they would've known exactly what I meant.

[manderlyh]

The information on the Germanic languages came from my notes. The only ones I could be 100% sure about were English, German and Dutch.

[Lilith]

I just love languages. English is my mother tongue and yet I constantly try to improve my vocabulary - it's such a beautiful language.

I subscribe to "Word of the Day" from dictionary.com and every day I receive a new word with definitions, in my inbox. Most of the time they are words I know already, but occasionally I'll receive one that I haven't come across before and I delight in finding out what it means and then trying to use it in conversation.

The only problem is that most people around me haven't the foggiest idea what I'm talking about ...

[eagle87]

I figured that's what it meant. I've heard it before here and there, but I don't think people use it around here much at all.

I've never had any issues reading your posts.

I'm going to school to be an English teacher, and I've worked one-on-one with many people who are learning English as something other than their first language. Everyone who is learning English (or any language for that matter) has issues with their verbs. Don't worry about it! More practice will make you better at it!

Thanks..

[Patrycja]

So if more people are going to school/University for longer, why does everything seem to be getting dumber?

Great thread. There are many factors that contributed to the flourishing of the language, and in addition to your fine points, the invention of printing press (thanks Gutenberg), in a changing era that saw the rise of a merchant class was rather fortuitous. It helped solidify spelling over time, spread literacy, and disseminate ideas among an increasing number of people who could afford to learn to read, buy pamphlets, and spend more leisure time doing so.

Literacy and democracy are very closely tied as well (it's easier to control a mass of people when they can't read the bible or government documents. For so long people just had to basically take the authorities' word on it), and so over time we had several revolutionary changes to government systems and social structures. These seeping changes did not occur only because of literacy, of course, but it is an under acknowledged factor.

In addition to the solid contributions made about linguistics, culture, and good old fashioned conquering, I'd like to add another perspective to those made about education. It has been my experience that the value of education is viewed differently than it once was. Whereas an education was once a means of becoming a well-rounded person, one who could contribute to society (and, of course, it was a status symbol), today a formal education is on the whole valued because it is a means to an end: a career. There's nothing wrong with that in and of itself. But education is far more commodified than ever before. As a result, the value of English for the purpose of eloquent self-expression as an extension and expression of who one is (arguably what lies at the heart of poetry) has diminished.

More and more often my students ask, "But why do I need five ways of saying the same thing? Why learn synonyms, different writing styles? How is this gonna help me be a better accountant?" In a way, though, I'm glad they ask because it gives me an opportunity to gently go over the immeasurable value of being well spoken. But their questions are indicative of troubling trend where only those words needed for their specific field are valued. There's always a swing of the pendulum and the trend seems to be shifting in favour of those who actually can hold a conversation, be personable and well-rounded ironically because competition to get into school programs is so high and grades are so comparable that students need that extra edge to get them in. The role of English may be more prominent, however, it is still part of that commodified context.

A culture shift needs to occur at a primary level. How we use language, like the environment, or anything else for that matter, says something about what's going on between the ears and in the heart. Nevertheless, I am hopeful. Just last week, a student who was watching me correct her written assignment said, "Your pen looks like it's waltzing." Not bad for a sixth grader .

English is very rich and adaptable thanks to all the different cultures and languages that have interwoven with it. It is a wonderful shape-shifter.

I went to college with someone from Johannesburg and his accent was delicious. We'd study together whether I needed to study or not just because I loved the sound of his voice.

Oooooh yesssss! South African accents are irresistibly sexy.

Whats wrong with "splat"?

Absolutely nothing. It's one of a wonderful myriad of onomatopoeic words that spices our language.

Gainsbarre, I have several books to recommend that should assuage

your hunger for a more florid English tongue:

"The Superior Person's Book of Words" by Peter Bowler. There are

three volumes, available individually or in a box set.

"Shakespeare's Insults: Educating Your Wit" by Wayne Hill & Cynthia Ottchen.

And, of course, one of my perennial favourites...

"An Exaltation of Larks: Or, the Venereal Game" by James Lipton, written long before he became famous as the "Inside the Actor's Studio" host. The first edition arrived in 1968, and there have been several updated editions published over the years since...the latest, being the "Ultimate Edition" in 1993.

Those are great. I love the sharp tongue and wit of Ambrose Bierce's The Devil's Dictionary. There's also Letter Perfect: The A-to-Z History of Our Alphabet by David Sacks and Shakespeare's Bawdy by Eric Partridge. Master Will was far more salty than he's been given credit for.

[bigstickbonzo]

Put the lotion in the fucking basket!!!!!!