The Dark Knight

[Mangani]

almost 20 years since the joker made an appearance in a batman movie. i'll tell 'em to slow down! lol..

Oh is that all? Just 20 years. LOL. But you agree, the Joker is not something we haven't already seen before?

i respectfully disagree. doc ock can't carry the jokers' deck....of cards

Visually? I did say in a visual sense. Visually/cinematically, the Joker is not a patch on Doc Ock. Doc Ock climbing up the wall with those mechanical arms was the best visualized comic book villain so far shown on screen. The fight on the train? Awesome visuals again. I can't see plain geezer in a painted face coming anywhere close to that.

the only villian better than the joker is dr. doom.

I was about to suggest that Dr Doom is probably the number one comic book villain.

all of spiderman's villians are whack, imho.

Awww come off it, Spider-Man had a whole slew of great villains. The Green Goblin, the Lizard, Doc Ock, Kingpin. Even the second tier of Spider-Man villains such as Kraven, Scorpion, Rhino, Mysterio, Electro etc etc were still very very good and visually wonderful.

now, jack kirby titles, that man could visually create a villian.

Yeah, he could. But he wasn't the only one from Marvel to come up with great villains. I'll take the Goblin or Doc Ock over the Mole Man or Puppet Master any day LOL.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Mangani

[Mangani]

Joker is widely considered the most recognizable and most popular villain in all comics.

Largely because of his t.v and movie appearances.

And Marvel has a ton of shitty bad guys to boot as well.

Yes they did............but overall they also had a greater number of good villains than DC.

Doc Oc isn't the most creative super villain of all time.

I didn't say he was. I said visually he is easily the best realised super villain ever shown on screen so far. Ledger's Joker isn't going to change that.

If only they had got the Goblin's suit and mask right in Spider-Man then that would have been fantastic as well. But they screwed up on that unfortunately.

[beatbo]

we'll see this week who the greatest supervillian of all time is.......

[Ethan]

Im looking forward to this one too as Id hoped after the first film they would make the follow up. Batman Begins was far better than the other big screen versions of the comic book, the first two movies with Micheal Keaton in them were quite good thougth.

[Nathan]

I am seeing this movie on July 18 at 12:01 am. I can't fucking wait!

Batman is my all-time favorite super-hero and anti-hero. No one can beat the Bat, not even Superman.

And the Joker... the Joker is a god among supervillians. I'm sorry, Mangani, but Dock Ock will never, ever match Joker. And even less-so on screen. You say people are sick of the Joker over and over again, yet on the big screen we have seen the Joker a total of four times. The first time was a campy, pre-Ronald McDonald crap-shoot version (see the 60's version with Robin's memorable "Holy _______, Batman"... and all I ever thought to myself was why can't he just say "holy shit, Batman..." just once... please... just to break the monotony). The second time was Jack Nicholson. And it was a new remake. Then we got the Cartoon version on the big screen, and that, IMO, is the true Joker.

Now, we have Heath Ledger. And if the critics are right, no one has seen the Joker played the way Heath Ledger plays him. Perhaps you should see the movie before you knock it.

And as far as Marvel villians verses DC villians, the difference is that DC has a larger propertion of great villians. Marvel may have more in numbers, but DC has more proprtionally. Both have their share of shit villians, too. However, I will always contend that Batman only fought the greatest villans of all-time in the Joker, Two-Face, The Riddler, Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, The Scarecrow, Black Mask, and Bane.

As for Bane, Poison Ivy, and Mr. Freeze, I hope to God Nolan decides to fix their images, because their on-screen images so far suuuuuuuuuuck. Especially Bane. I was SO pissed that Shitmacher turn Bane into a mindless muscle drone. Bane is supposed to be the greatest tactical mind Batman ever fought, and he is the one who broke Batman's back. Bane was not only super-strong, but a fucking genious. And Shitmacher turned him into a stupid, walking, hulking slave. I will NEVER forgive Shitmacher for that. Ever.

[zepyep]

Hi all,

The plastic 'nibs' on the Bat suit didn't do it for me.

It's always good to hear the Marvel vs DC debate.

KB

[beatbo]

while we wait, more bat art:

[electricmage]

Largely because of his t.v and movie appearances.

This statement is false. The Joker was just a great creation, which led to him being all over anything batman.

He is without a doubt, the most interesting comic villain that I've ever come across. No other villain has had so much coverage. be it comic, television, ect.

He is the only character to have a love/hate relationship with a superhero. He cannot exist without batman existing. And he knows this.

Aside from that, he is feared by all other D.C. comic book villians.

[electricmage]

visually he is easily the best realised super villain ever shown on screen so far. Ledger's Joker isn't going to change that.

If only they had got the Goblin's suit and mask right in Spider-Man then that would have been fantastic as well. But they screwed up on that unfortunately.

Says you. I can name several other movie bad guys that blow Doc Oc and Alfred Molina out of the water. He didn't even use a German accent.

And there have been so many renditions of the joker, it's impossible to cover every style. But you are absurd to think Heath Ledger won't be on top. I've been blown away from the clips I've seen.

[Strider]

I couldn't stand Robert Downey Jr. I didn't find him manly enough to be a superhero. I didn't buy him in that role.

Then I would say that the problem wasn't Robert Downey Jr., but your conception of what

constitutes "manly".

For Robert Downey Jr. is ONE thing that elevated "Iron Man" above the usual

"comic superhero movie" drivel. He was riveting in the role, and believe me, every

red-blooded woman I've talked to found him plenty "MANLY".

As for "The Dark Knight", I'm going tonight with friends and my godson and nephews.

We wanted to see it at the Cinerama Dome, but it apparently is sold out until the next

millenium and you need to sign away your first born or left nut to get a ticket.

So, instead we got tickets to see it at the Vista Theatre in Silverlake, which has several

advantages:

1. The sound and projection are just as great as the Arclight Cinerama Dome, which places

it amongst the best in the world.

2. The tix are nearly $5 cheaper...$9.50 compared to $14 at the Arclight; and you get

just as few ads.

3. The BEST popcorn in L.A., with real butter; not the vats of "Guido-the-killer-pimp's

hair oil glop" that is usually poured on theatre popcorn.

4. Most importantly, for a someone who is 6'7"...it has the most legroom I've ever

experienced in any theatre anywhere. I can stretch out my long legs and there is still

room for people to go past to their seats without me having to get up, which means you

are also spared having someone's bum or crotch shoved in your faceas they make their

way past.

I'll wait until actually seeing the movie before commenting on said film, and how it compares

with prior Batmans, and other comic-book fare, such as Spiderman.

See ya at the movies!

Edited July 18, 2008 by Strider

[bigstickbonzo]

He is the only character to have a love/hate relationship with a superhero. He cannot exist without batman existing. And he knows this.

Aside from that, he is feared by all other D.C. comic book villians.

Excellent post. Frank Miller nailed it best in "The Dark Knight Returns" where a catatonic Joker snaps out of it when he hears on the news Batman had returned to fight crime. There is no other psychological connection between a hero/villain that renders as rich in story as Batman and the Joker. Where as other villains would likely move on after defeating their adversary, the Joker would probably commit suicide upon Batman's death and he hints at this dozens of times throughout decades of conflict with the Dark Knight.

I should post some of my biography I wrote on the Joker when I was 14. It's probably the single best story I've ever written and it starts from his childhood upbringing to his fall into crime as a teenager to his brief redemption while attempting to start a family to his horrific disfiguring and his ultimate battle with Batman that goes on for two decades until his demise at the hands of Batman.

[Nathan]

Okay. I saw the movie at 12:01 this morning, at the premier.

It is the first time I have seen a movie that ended with a standing ovation from the audience. Heath Ledger's Joker is, without a doubt, the greatest Joker on the big screen to date. His voice, his laugh, and his mannerisms are all 100% perfect. It is also the first time I have seen a movie live up to and possibly even surpass all the ridiculous hype. Well... maybe Iron Man... but even that wasn't anywhere near as hyped as The Dark Knight was.

I have no doubt it will win tons of awards, and I can't wait to see it again. In fact, I have a feeling feeling I'll be blowing hundreds of dollars on tickets for this one movie over the next year. It's gonna be in the movies for a long while, and I can't wait for it to get on DVD.

Greatest movie ever. 10/10. A+. 100+. 5 Stars. Platinum Star. Any other major way to say this is, without a doubt, the greatest movie I have not only seen all year, but the greatest movie I have seen in a long time.

After Shitmaker (that would be Schumacher), Nolan has, without a doubt, saved the franchise.

So, now for a major spoiler.

Are you ready?

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You sure?

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Batman is...

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Wait for it...

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Wait for it...

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Bruce Wayne.

Edited July 19, 2008 by Nathan

[Jarlaxle 56]

I saw it last night at 12:15 am. It was very fast paced, there are no dull points in the movie. It's not COMPLETELY flawless, but it was very very good. Right up there with my other favourite movies (Army of Darkness, Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas)

***SPOILERS BELOW******

DO NOT READ THE BELOW TEXT IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO READ A SPOILER

The hairs on my arms stood up during the scene where the Joker pretends to be dead and the threatens the guy with the knife.

Also, I was very much hoping Two-Face would be in the third movie, but it looks like he's dead.

Edited July 19, 2008 by Jarlaxle 56

[beatbo]

I saw it last night at 12:15 am. It was very fast paced, there are no dull points in the movie. It's not COMPLETELY flawless, but it was very very good. Right up there with my other favourite movies (Army of Darkness, Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas)

***SPOILERS******

quote]

how does it make you feel to post this?

"i'm first to see it, and i get to ruin it for the rest of you?"

why would you even want to do that.....i totally do not understand.

buy a t-shirt instead....

Edited July 19, 2008 by beatbo

[Jarlaxle 56]

how does it make you feel to post this?

"i'm first to see it, and i get to ruin it for the rest of you?"

why would you even want to do that.....i totally do not understand.

buy a t-shirt instead....

Dude, why do you think I posted ****SPOILERS**** with a whole bunch of space? It's so you can ignore it safely...jeezus

Edit: There I edited it to make it more discreet.

Edited July 19, 2008 by Jarlaxle 56

[beatbo]

Dude, why do you think I posted ****SPOILERS**** with a whole bunch of space? It's so you can ignore it safely...jeezus

edited to remove rude comment.

sorry, buddy. pet peeve of mine. i know alot of people do it, it's just never happened in my immediate proximity (so to speak).

Edited July 19, 2008 by beatbo

[Jarlaxle 56]

edited to remove rude comment.

sorry, buddy. pet peeve of mine. i know alot of people do it, it's just never happened in my immediate proximity (so to speak).

My apologies, perhaps someone should start a new thread about it for discussing the movie with spoilers.

[Nathan]

beatbo, if you really think those spoilers mean anything at all in the context of the movie, then you really need to see the movie.

Jarlaxle_56, Two-Face is not dead. He can't be. According to everything I've read and know (as a Batman fanatic), he is supposed to be the main bad guy of the third movie. However, even if not dead, the truth is, Harvey Dent himself did die, and that mourning service they showed was mourning the death of Harvey Dent. Harvey Dent no longer exists. He is now Two-Face.

Edited July 19, 2008 by Nathan

[beatbo]

beatbo, if you really think those spoilers mean anything at all in the context of the movie, then you really need to see the movie.

Jarlaxle_56[/b, Two-Face is not dead. I can tell you that, for a fact, for one very simple reason. Two-Face is the main bad-guy of the third movie.

leaving to go see it right now......

[Nathan]

leaving to go see it right now......

Good. I know you'll love it. It was brilliant. And don't worry. Jarlaxle didn't spoil anything.

[Strider]

DON'T WORRY...NO SPOILERS!

Okay, I'm back after seeing it last night, and while I'm not buying the

talk of it being the greatest thing since sliced bread(I think the knuckleheads

on IMDB already have "The Dark Knight" rated #4 all time...WTF?!?), I think

it is fairly obvious that it is, BY FAR, the greatest "comic-book-superhero"

film ever...it blows away any of the Superman and Spiderman movies.

Really, I can only think of Nolan's "Batman Begins", "Iron Man", maybe one of

the "X-Men" movies as being close...but really, none of those films, while good,

have anywhere near the emotional impact and intense thrills that "The Dark

Knight" possesses in spades.

"The Dark Knight", through the rare(in superhero movies especially) combination

of good director/good script/excellent ensemble acting/good technical support,

is a superhero movie that has so blown away all previous superhero films and

forever raised the bar on what a superhero movie can and should aspire to,

that it has transcended the superhero genre entirely and could reasonably be

talked about in terms of great American crime dramas...maybe not Godfather

level, but closer than you might have thought would be capable for a mere

"superhero" movie.

Since the film just came out, and not everyone has had a chance to see it, I

will wait before discussing "The Dark Knight" at length, as I don't want to ruin

it for someone by giving out spoilers, even if it's unintentional.

All I will say, is that yes, Heath Ledger is AMAZING, but do not forget about

Aaron Eckhart...he is just as great as Harvey Dent/Two Face, and it would be

a shame if he gets lost in all the rush to memorialize Heath Ledger. In fact, it

was upon hearing Eckhart was cast that increased my interest of seeing this

movie more than Heath Ledger. I have enjoyed Aaron Eckhart ever since first

seeing him in 1997's "In the Company of Men"...since then, he has routinely

been brilliant in all manner of roles from "Erin Brockovich" to "Thank You For

Smoking"...he is one of our most underrated actors. And, in many ways, it

is Eckhart's character Harvey Dent that is the center of "The Dark Knight";

his character arc is the crux of the film, without it the film wouldn't have the

devestating emotional impact that it does.

And Gary Oldman as Gordon...and Maggie Gyllenhaal(a VAST IMPROVEMENT

over Katie Holmes) as Rachel...Michael Caine...just an expert cast and wonderful

acting by all...including Christian Bale, although the stickler in me was kind of

annoyed at times with the voice he uses in his "Batman" mode.

I had a couple of other minor quibbles her and there, but nothing that takes

away from the overall enjoyment and wonder of the movie.

But, all that is for later, when more of you have seen it and can therefore join

in the discussion without fear of spoilers.

I will just finish by getting back to Heath...his performance is one for the books;

it is everything you've heard and more. His entire construct of the Joker is genius

and forever obliterates the campy vaudeville memories of Cesare Romero and

Jack Nicholson.

This is a Joker of the id...the Joker of our nightmares...helped by some of the

most fiendishly eerie "theme music" any character ever had. It is like the leitmotifs

Wagner wrote for his operas.

Somebody earlier embarrassed themselves with some foolish prattle about how

Doc Oc was such a "visually arresting" villain, amongst other dubious claims.

That is the folly of trying to comment on a film that you haven't seen.

Well, I'll take Heath Ledger's Joker with his one pencil over Doc Oc and his 6, 10

or however many arms any day of the week. It is NO CONTEST! Heath Ledger's

"Joker" will go down as one of the greatest film villians of all-time, while Doc Oc

isn't even in the conversation and will be forgotten in time, if he isn't already.

Wanna see me make a pencil disappear?

So is "The Dark Knight" worth spending the bucks to see in a theatre? YES!!!!

Go see it now...before your friends ruin it by telling you all the good parts. It is

dark...so I would leave any kids under 8 at home, as it would probably be too

intense for the wee ones.

It is very rare a film lives up to, and even surpasses the expectations and hype

that amasses around it, especially a summer flick. If you get one movie a summer

that lives up to the hype, I consider it a good summer. So far, we've had "Iron

Man" and "Wall-E"...and even "Forgetting Sarah Marshall", although I guess that

came out more in the spring.

Now, after the dreck of "The Happening", "Get Smart", "The Love Guru", "Hancock",

"Hellboy II" and countless others, we get a third great summer movie, "The Dark

Knight".

My only concern is will Christopher Nolan tempt fate and try to deliver a third

Batman movie, when usually the third movie sucks...see "Godfather III", "Star Wars

III", "Spiderman III".

[Nathan]

Hey Strider... go post your spoilers and anything else you want here:

http://forums.ledzeppelin.com//index.php?showtopic=7133

[beatbo]

i just got back from the film and all i can say is....

.......sonovabitch!

edit to add: whoever it was bragging on 'doc ock' from spiderman-well, sorry, buddy.......

Edited July 19, 2008 by beatbo

[Wolfman]

I thought the movie was great but it's a tiny little bit overrated IMO. Not in a bad way. People say the movie might be a best movie darkhorse or Ledger will nominated for Best Actor. I don't think either happens. Not that type of movie. My one complaint (from the last one too) is that Bale is hard to take seriously when he speaks as Batman. Sounds like a wannabe Clint Eastwood.

As for that animated DVD that came out last week....I thought it sucked. Pretty boring and it's only 76 minutes long. Something that short shouldn't bore you.

Edited July 19, 2008 by Wolfman

[bigstickbonzo]

3 1/2 stars outta 4 for me. It had everything you wanted and alot of unexpected twists and turns that really brought the whole thing home. While I'm still prone to Nicholson's tenor in the role, Ledger easily surpassed any previous performance of the character with wit, cruelty and sheer terror. Excellent job all around and agreed, it's certainly the best comic book styled movie I've ever seen.

Bale's Bat voice still drives me up the wall. Keaton had it down perfect. All you want to do for Bale is yell at him to clear his throat. Not a fan of the batsuit either, but Bale still delivers that dark side to Wayne that even Keaton never quite delivered on.