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allthekingshorses

U.S. Vice President 2008

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What bothers me is that he met this woman yesterday and thinks it prudent to put her a heartbeat away from the presidency..little head thinkin for the big one there McCain?

Obviously

It was Love at First Sight. :lol:

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Hey PJ, why do you care? I thought that it is all planned out already. This is an incredible pick, great day for Republicans.

Who said I care? Hell in his shoes I prolly would have done the same!!! Why spend the last 2 months of the campaign with some crusty old gray haired man when you can "strategize" until the wee hours of the morning with her..she's a real looker

I mean he's gonna lose anyway why not enjoy himself...first thing he's done in this election I agree with!

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I wonder what the chances are for getting a good govt job from knowing a vp...maybe 5,000 jobs....or maybe 50,000 jobs via the washington trickle down effect.

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This pick kind of took the thunder right out of the Obama sails. LOL

:thumbsup:

Agreed! But you know how the liberal press are. They throw a bone to the Conservatives once in a blue moon just to give themselves a "see we're not bias" pat on the back. Today, it's back to business as usual.

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So Sarah Palin likes hunting, is a staunch member of the NRA, wants to drill Alaska for oil (her husband even being an oil driller himself) and is anti-abortion... wow, conservatives must absolutely adore her... She's so conservative she's almost a cliché

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So Sarah Palin likes hunting, is a staunch member of the NRA, wants to drill Alaska for oil (her husband even being an oil driller himself) and is anti-abortion... wow, conservatives must absolutely adore her... She's so conservative she's almost a cliché

Agreed. At first I thought she was picked to try to appeal to disgruntled Hillary folks, but the more I read/hear from the republican side, the more I think that was considered a possible bonus. I think they see her as a way to energize the erstwhile lukewarm base. It appears to be working from what I see. There seems to be wide spread rejoicing among the right wing faithful.

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Agreed. At first I thought she was picked to try to appeal to disgruntled Hillary folks, but the more I read/hear from the republican side, the more I think that was considered a possible bonus. I think they see her as a way to energize the erstwhile lukewarm base. It appears to be working from what I see. There seems to be wide spread rejoicing among the right wing faithful.

Well I think it has a two fold effect of trying to appeal to the Hillary folks (although it comes across more as the Republicans saying "hey we can do the woman running for office thingie too!") and also probably to bolster John McCain's flagging conservative credentials.

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Well I think it has a two fold effect of trying to appeal to the Hillary folks (although it comes across more as the Republicans saying "hey we can do the woman running for office thingie too!") and also probably to bolster John McCain's flagging conservative credentials.

Isn't that what I said?

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Talk to Wannabe, he'll tell you how repetitive I am :)

I just like to rephrase things in case other people don't grasp your intelligent, academically constructed posts, Uncle Bill...

lol, you can rephrase all you want. We seem to see eye to eye on many issues.

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Hey Spatsdasdick, maybe 95 percent of the VPs are related too you moron. Haha.

Who actually replies with a "Haha." at the end of their post? :huh:

Someone needs to get outside more often

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Talk to Wannabe, he'll tell you how repetitive I am :)

I just like to rephrase things in case other people don't grasp your intelligent, academically constructed posts, Uncle Bill...

You just like to really hammer your point across and I've noticed, what can I say? :lol:

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Why would you think he's desperate when the polls are so close? It makes no sense.

Real clear politics (which compiles the data from all the major polls) only has nobama up by 3.9. Hardly desperation inducing. source

As far as pandering goes, I haven't seen anything that suggests the Palin pick goes against any of McCain's true beliefs.

Pandering may refer to:

"In politics, portrayal of one's views to fit in line with a certain crowd of voters the candidate is attempting to impress, when often, these are not the candidate's true beliefs."

source

Hi Uncle Bill,

Thanks for your sources, though the first one's dead, could you provide a workable link? Well, it isn't that pandering isn't happening all across the board, I get that the spectacle has to appeal to the respective sides, and hey, you play to your strengths. Manoeuvring and strategizing all around. But Palin, for example, is pro life, McCain is not (apparently, though according to prochoiceamerica.org he caters more with word than deed. I'm not criticizing right now either way, merely recording it. I'm not sure which way he stands, other than what he's professed, which is different from Palin's); Palin wants drilling in protected Alaskan environments, McCain does not. I have no idea what her stance on Iraq or the economy is, and since I just woke up, maybe you can enlighten me.

I said McCain's choice reeks of desperation because he has chosen someone who, despite differing from him on two (if not more) key issues, nevertheless fits the bill for 'making history'. So it's not so much her policies but his either wanting to take some of the steam from BO's camp in the ''making history' category, or by riding the wave that Bo's generated. Once 'historical moment' is in the forefront, it can be used by both sides. When McCain was introducing her, the underlying message seemed to be ooooh and look, she's a woman. It's actually not terribly flattering, and has less in common with Hillary's historic run than it at first appears. I mean, at least Clinton was chosen with people's votes. Despite OB's relative inexperience, I have to say that I'm far more comfortable with Biden as the VP selection. And if decisions thus far have any bearing, I like BO's better. But my vote doesn't count there. Hopefully it'll create some changes in our own election here north of the border.

Cheers,

P

Edited to add: I though BO was ahead something like 13.5 percentage points??? But that was just before Palin was picked. I don't know what the stats are like now

Edited by Patrycja

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Hi Uncle Bill,

Thanks for your sources, though the first one's dead, could you provide a workable link?

RCP average

Which I notice is now 3.3 rather than 3.9., not that it matters.

Zogby International Which took their poll since the Palin announcement has McCain/ Palin up by 2 points

But Palin, for example, is pro life, McCain is not

Not according to Nancy Keenan, president of NARAL Pro-Choice America:

""For 25 years, McCain has opposed a woman’s right to choose, and we know that he will continue to push anti-choice policies in the White House."

source

Palin wants drilling in protected Alaskan environments, McCain does not.

Maybe she can straighten him out on that, he was against expanded off shore drilling as well, but has come around on that. They both want to more domestic production. So do I.

I have no idea what her stance on Iraq or the economy is, and since I just woke up, maybe you can enlighten me.

On the war:

question asked when she was running for governor #13. "This year saw the biggest wartime call-up of Alaska National Guard troops ever. Combined with deployments of active-duty forces, thousands of Alaskans are now serving in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere overseas. What's your view of the Iraq war, and do you support President Bush's "war on terror"?"

answer: "I support President Bush's efforts to stop terrorism by taking the fight to the terrorists. In the Iraq war, I would like to see the president develop an exit strategy to get our troops home."

Her son is going to be deployed there soon.

On the economy:

“I am a conservative Republican, a firm believer in free market capitalism. A free market system allows all parties to compete, which ensures the best and most competitive project emerges, and ensures a fair, democratic process.”

source

I said McCain's choice reeks of desperation because he has chosen someone who, despite differing from him on two (if not more) key issues,

It appears you were incorrect about that. Although, I'm sure if you dig deep enough there might be something they disagree on. I don't agree with anyone on all issues either.

Edited to add: I though BO was ahead something like 13.5 percentage points??? But that was just before Palin was picked. I don't know what the stats are like now

You would think that with everything he has going for him he should be, but he has consistently been under performing the "generic poll" of dem vs rep.

The polls range from +2 mccain/palin (Zogby) to +6 nobama/ biden (gallup)

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From Real Clear Politics

Sarah Palin vs. Barack Obama

By Gerard Baker

Democrats, between sniggers of derision and snorts of disgust, contend that Sarah Palin, John McCain's vice-presidential pick is ridiculously unqualified to be president.

It's a reasonable objection on its face except for this small objection: it surely needs to be weighed against the Democrats' claim that their own candidate for president is self-evidently ready to assume the role of most powerful person on the planet.

At first blush, here's what we know about the relative experience of the two candidates. Both are in their mid-forties and have held statewide elective office for less than four years. Both have admitted to taking illegal drugs in their youth.

So much for the similarities. How about the differences?

Political experience

Obama: Worked his way to the top by cultivating, pandering to and stroking the most powerful interest groups in the all-pervasive Chicago political machine, ensuring his views were aligned with the power brokers there.

Palin: Worked her way to the top by challenging, attacking and actively undermining the Republican party establishment in her native Alaska. She ran against incumbent Republicans as a candidate willing and able to clean the Augean Stables of her state's government.

Political Biography

Obama: A classic, if unusually talented, greasy-pole climber. Held a succession of jobs that constitute the standard route to the top in his party's internal politics: "community organizer", law professor, state senator.

Palin:A woman with a wide range of interests in a well-variegated life. Held a succession of jobs - sports journalist, commercial fisherwoman, state oil and gas commissioner, before entering local politics. A resume that suggests something other than burning political ambition from the cradle but rather the sort of experience that enables her to understand the concerns of most Americans..

Political history

Obama: Elected to statewide office only after a disastrous first run for a congressional seat and after his Republican opponent was exposed in a sexual scandal. Won seat eventually in contest against a candidate who didn't even live in the state.

Palin: Elected to statewide office at the first attempt challenging a long-serving Republican incumbent governor despite intense opposition from the party.

Appeal

Obama: A very attractive speaker whose celebrity has been compared to that of Britney Spears and who sends thrills up Chris Matthews' leg

Palin: A very attractive woman, much better-looking than Britney Spears who speaks rather well too. She sends thrills up the leg of Rush Limbaugh (and me).

Executive experience

Obama: Makes executive decisions every day that affect the lives of his campaign staff and a vast crowd of traveling journalists

Palin:Makes executive decisions every day that affect the lives of 500,000 people in her state, and that impact crucial issues of national economic interest such as the supply and cost of energy to the United States.

Religious influences

Obama: Regards people who "cling" to religion and guns as "bitter" . Spent 20 years being mentored and led spiritually by a man who proclaimed "God damn America" from his pulpit. Mysteriously, this mentor completely disappeared from public sight about four months ago.

Palin: Head of her high school Fellowship of Christian Athletes and for many years a member of the Assemblies of God congregation whose preachers have never been known to accuse the United States of deliberately spreading the AIDS virus. They remain in full public sight and can be seen every Sunday in churches across Alaska. A proud gun owner who has been known to cling only to the carcasses of dead caribou felled by her own aim.

Record of bipartisan achievement

Obama: Speaks movingly of the bipartisanship needed to end the destructive politics of "Red America" and "Blue America", but votes in the Senate as a down-the-line Democrat, with one of the most liberal voting records in congress.

Palin: Ridiculed by liberals such as John Kerry as a crazed, barely human, Dick Cheney-type conservative but worked wit Democrats in the state legislature to secure landmark anti-corruption legislation.

Former state Rep. Ethan Berkowitz - a Democrat - said. "Gov. Palin has made her name fighting corruption within her own party, and I was honored when she stepped across party lines and asked me to co-author her ethics white paper."

On Human Life

Obama: Devoutly pro-choice. Voted against a bill in the Illinois state senate that would have required doctors to save the lives of babies who survived abortion procedures. The implication of this position is that babies born prematurely during abortions would be left alone, unnourished and unmedicated, until they died.

Palin: Devoutly pro-life. Exercised the choice proclaimed by liberals to bring to full term a baby that had been diagnosed in utero with Down Syndrome.

Now it's true there are other crucial differences. Sen Obama has appeared on Meet The Press every other week for the last four years. He has been the subject of hundreds of adoring articles in papers and newsweeklies and TV shows and has written two Emmy-award winning books.

Gov Palin has never appeared on Meet the Press, never been on the cover of Newsweek. She presumably feels that, as a mother of five children married to a snowmobile champion, who also happens to be the first woman and the youngest person ever to be elected governor of her state, she has not really done enough yet to merit an autobiography.

Then again, I'm willing to bet that if she had authored The Grapes of Wrath, sung like Edith Piaf and composed La Traviata , she still wouldn't have won an Emmy.

Fortunately, it will be up to the American people and not their self-appointed leaders in Hollywood and New York to determine who really has the better experience to be president.

Gerard Baker is US Editor and Assistant Editor of The Times of London. Email: gerard.baker@thetimes.co.uk

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RCP average

Which I notice is now 3.3 rather than 3.9., not that it matters.

Zogby International Which took their poll since the Palin announcement has McCain/ Palin up by 2 points

Not according to Nancy Keenan, president of NARAL Pro-Choice America:

""For 25 years, McCain has opposed a woman’s right to choose, and we know that he will continue to push anti-choice policies in the White House."

source

Maybe she can straighten him out on that, he was against expanded off shore drilling as well, but has come around on that. They both want to more domestic production. So do I.

On the war:

question asked when she was running for governor #13. "This year saw the biggest wartime call-up of Alaska National Guard troops ever. Combined with deployments of active-duty forces, thousands of Alaskans are now serving in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere overseas. What's your view of the Iraq war, and do you support President Bush's "war on terror"?"

answer: "I support President Bush's efforts to stop terrorism by taking the fight to the terrorists. In the Iraq war, I would like to see the president develop an exit strategy to get our troops home."

Her son is going to be deployed there soon.

On the economy:

“I am a conservative Republican, a firm believer in free market capitalism. A free market system allows all parties to compete, which ensures the best and most competitive project emerges, and ensures a fair, democratic process.”

source

It appears you were incorrect about that. Although, I'm sure if you dig deep enough there might be something they disagree on. I don't agree with anyone on all issues either.

You would think that with everything he has going for him he should be, but he has consistently been under performing the "generic poll" of dem vs rep.

The polls range from +2 mccain/palin (Zogby) to +6 nobama/ biden (gallup)

I wish I knew how to separate quotes, it would make things easier...

Ok, yep, nobody agrees with everyone, nor should they. However, they ought not contradict one another. McCain as you and I pointed out, has been called out by pro-choice AND pro-life supporters for his ambiguous stance:

(I picked a clip from Fox in case anyone had problems with 'liberal' news stations being biased against McCain. I assume the sources you include, minus Palin's, are party neutral?)

So, when he's in a pro-choice area, he says he's pro-choice (like when he ran for president last time), and more recently (and in areas of strong pro-life support) he's pro-life, which his voting record seems to indicate. I was shocked to hear him say in interviews he wants to repeal Roe vs. Wade, and I'm someone who believes all life is sacred. Doing that sends a very dangerous precedent for repealing many other issues in a democratic society, to the point that democracy itself is stripped of substance.

It seems the polls indicate the race IS closer than the 13.5% I mentioned earlier. Still, that does not negate McCain feeling the heat. It's like teams that are up by a small margin yet you always get the feeling they'll give the lead up; you can just sense it (for any Leaf fans, think Andrew Raycroft. Goddamnit. Good riddance). Palin at least is very clear about where she stands, and she seems more conservative than McCain. Her positions on Iraq and the economy are, at least in the quotes you've included, quite generic statements.

The main point I want to reiterate in Palin being chosen is that McCain could've chosen others who are far more experienced and known, but he chose her because he needed to offset BO's 'making history' niche. If he wasn't worried about that, why not choose someone with a stronger political resume? Other than the fact that she is a woman, how is that a 'maverick' choice?

It's pretty clear that he picked someone he thinks will help him win, not necessarily someone who will be capable of running the country should, God forbid, he be elected and some misfortune befalls him. So his decisions are questionable on major issues -Iraq, the economy, AND the VP choice.

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I wish I knew how to separate quotes, it would make things easier...

Just put: [ quote ] around the thing you want quoted [ /quote ] .remove the spaces.

Edited by Uncle Bill

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From Real Clear Politics

Sarah Palin vs. Barack Obama

By Gerard Baker

Democrats, between sniggers of derision and snorts of disgust, contend that Sarah Palin, John McCain's vice-presidential pick is ridiculously unqualified to be president.

It's a reasonable objection on its face except for this small objection: it surely needs to be weighed against the Democrats' claim that their own candidate for president is self-evidently ready to assume the role of most powerful person on the planet.

At first blush, here's what we know about the relative experience of the two candidates. Both are in their mid-forties and have held statewide elective office for less than four years. Both have admitted to taking illegal drugs in their youth.

So much for the similarities. How about the differences?

Political experience

Obama: Worked his way to the top by cultivating, pandering to and stroking the most powerful interest groups in the all-pervasive Chicago political machine, ensuring his views were aligned with the power brokers there.

Palin: Worked her way to the top by challenging, attacking and actively undermining the Republican party establishment in her native Alaska. She ran against incumbent Republicans as a candidate willing and able to clean the Augean Stables of her state's government.

Political Biography

Obama: A classic, if unusually talented, greasy-pole climber. Held a succession of jobs that constitute the standard route to the top in his party's internal politics: "community organizer", law professor, state senator.

Palin:A woman with a wide range of interests in a well-variegated life. Held a succession of jobs - sports journalist, commercial fisherwoman, state oil and gas commissioner, before entering local politics. A resume that suggests something other than burning political ambition from the cradle but rather the sort of experience that enables her to understand the concerns of most Americans..

Political history

Obama: Elected to statewide office only after a disastrous first run for a congressional seat and after his Republican opponent was exposed in a sexual scandal. Won seat eventually in contest against a candidate who didn't even live in the state.

Palin: Elected to statewide office at the first attempt challenging a long-serving Republican incumbent governor despite intense opposition from the party.

Appeal

Obama: A very attractive speaker whose celebrity has been compared to that of Britney Spears and who sends thrills up Chris Matthews' leg

Palin: A very attractive woman, much better-looking than Britney Spears who speaks rather well too. She sends thrills up the leg of Rush Limbaugh (and me).

Executive experience

Obama: Makes executive decisions every day that affect the lives of his campaign staff and a vast crowd of traveling journalists

Palin:Makes executive decisions every day that affect the lives of 500,000 people in her state, and that impact crucial issues of national economic interest such as the supply and cost of energy to the United States.

Religious influences

Obama: Regards people who "cling" to religion and guns as "bitter" . Spent 20 years being mentored and led spiritually by a man who proclaimed "God damn America" from his pulpit. Mysteriously, this mentor completely disappeared from public sight about four months ago.

Palin: Head of her high school Fellowship of Christian Athletes and for many years a member of the Assemblies of God congregation whose preachers have never been known to accuse the United States of deliberately spreading the AIDS virus. They remain in full public sight and can be seen every Sunday in churches across Alaska. A proud gun owner who has been known to cling only to the carcasses of dead caribou felled by her own aim.

Record of bipartisan achievement

Obama: Speaks movingly of the bipartisanship needed to end the destructive politics of "Red America" and "Blue America", but votes in the Senate as a down-the-line Democrat, with one of the most liberal voting records in congress.

Palin: Ridiculed by liberals such as John Kerry as a crazed, barely human, Dick Cheney-type conservative but worked wit Democrats in the state legislature to secure landmark anti-corruption legislation.

Former state Rep. Ethan Berkowitz - a Democrat - said. "Gov. Palin has made her name fighting corruption within her own party, and I was honored when she stepped across party lines and asked me to co-author her ethics white paper."

On Human Life

Obama: Devoutly pro-choice. Voted against a bill in the Illinois state senate that would have required doctors to save the lives of babies who survived abortion procedures. The implication of this position is that babies born prematurely during abortions would be left alone, unnourished and unmedicated, until they died.

Palin: Devoutly pro-life. Exercised the choice proclaimed by liberals to bring to full term a baby that had been diagnosed in utero with Down Syndrome.

Now it's true there are other crucial differences. Sen Obama has appeared on Meet The Press every other week for the last four years. He has been the subject of hundreds of adoring articles in papers and newsweeklies and TV shows and has written two Emmy-award winning books.

Gov Palin has never appeared on Meet the Press, never been on the cover of Newsweek. She presumably feels that, as a mother of five children married to a snowmobile champion, who also happens to be the first woman and the youngest person ever to be elected governor of her state, she has not really done enough yet to merit an autobiography.

Then again, I'm willing to bet that if she had authored The Grapes of Wrath, sung like Edith Piaf and composed La Traviata , she still wouldn't have won an Emmy.

Fortunately, it will be up to the American people and not their self-appointed leaders in Hollywood and New York to determine who really has the better experience to be president.

Gerard Baker is US Editor and Assistant Editor of The Times of London. Email: gerard.baker@thetimes.co.uk

This article is really derivative and reductive. How many connotative words does it take to lose all semblance of journalistic objectivity? I get that it's an editorial piece, but still... It actually has the opposite effect intended because of its slant and tone. It complains about BO being deified and yet she is passed off as 'the American mother'/'saint', credited with things that have nothing to do with being a qualified VP?! So Baker gives Palin a halo using the very thing he professes is wrong with the approach in analyzing BO??? The best thing this article has going for it? Encouragement. If things like this get published, then surely there's hope for those who aspire to write for a living.

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Just put: [ quote ] around the thing you want quoted [ /quote ] .remove the spaces.

OH, ok cool, thanks. What about when people quote snippets from different posters all at once? (if you don't mind :D)

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OH, ok cool, thanks. What about when people quote snippets from different posters all at once? (if you don't mind :D)

That's one I haven't figured out either. If I was going to do it I would open a different window for each poster I wanted to quote then copy and paste the quote to my reply window. There must be an easier way though. :shrugs:

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I get that it's an editorial piece, but still...

I normally try to avoid opinion pieces but I posted that in answer to post 4365 in this thread where the poster was using all far left wing links as support for their argument. I just wanted to keep the VP discussion on this thread.

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