swandown Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I know that Jansch didn't write the song but it was his version that Jimmy plagarised. Diferent tuning or not. And Jansch plagiarized it from Annie Briggs. The unpalatable truth is that Bert Jansch mugged one of his own heroes and failed to acknowledge the original artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 The "four lines of inane lyrics" mentioned by that forty-year-old article as being added to The Lemon Song were by Robert Johnson. I guess if the writer knew that, they'd suddenly have become less inane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detigers09 Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 The "four lines of inane lyrics" mentioned by that forty-year-old article as being added to The Lemon Song were by Robert Johnson. I guess if the writer knew that, they'd suddenly have become less inane. Only the "squeeze my lemon" part is from Robert Johnson. There are several other lines that Zeppelin made up. And even so, while the lyrics do suddenly become less inane, it certainly doesn't help the argument that they lifted lyrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Nope, all the lyrics from that song are either from Howlin' Wolf or Robert Johnson. I wouldn't claim they wrote any original lyrics for that song--I wouldn't claim it matters, either, for the reasons discussed above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatbo Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 killing floor I should'a quit you, long time ago I should'a quit you, baby, long time ago I should'a quit you, and went on to Mexico If I ha'da followed, my first mind If I ha'da followed, my first mind I'd'a been gone, since my second time I should'a went on, when my friend come from Mexico at me I should'a went on, when my friend come from Mexico at me I was foolin' with ya baby, I let ya put me on the killin' floor Lord knows, I should'a been gone Lord knows, I should'a been gone And I wouldn't've been here, down on the killin' floor lemon song "The Lemon Song" I should have quit you, long time ago. [X2] I wouldn't be here, my children, down on this killin' floor. I should have listened, baby, to my second mind [X2] Everytime I go away and leave you, darling, you send me the blues way down the line. Said, people worry I can't keep you satisfied. Let me tell you baby, you ain't nothin but a two-bit, no-good jive. Went to sleep last night, worked as hard as I can, Bring home my money, you take my money, give it to another man. I should have quit you, baby, such a long time ago. I wouldn't be here with all my troubles, down on this killing floor. Squeeze me baby, till the juice runs down my leg. [X2] The way you squeeze my lemon, I'm gonna fall right out of bed. I'm gonna leave my children down on this killing floor. i must add that if you listen to the shuffle played by hubert sumlin on the wolfs' original and then listen to the mighty crunch dispatched from jimmy page's les paul for "the lemon song" -well, the proof's in the pudding... by Chester Burnett a.k.a. Howlin' Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonOfDarkness Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 i must add that if you listen to the shuffle played by hubert sumlin on the wolfs' original and then listen to the mighty crunch dispatched from jimmy page's les paul for "the lemon song" -well, the proof's in the pudding... by Chester Burnett a.k.a. Howlin' Wolf Can you feel that burning sensation Aquamarine? Because you just got burned and your ass is on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Can you feel that burning sensation Aquamarine? Because you just got burned and your ass is on fire. What the fuck is your problem with me? Oh wait--I know who you are . . . I stand by what I said, anyway--beatbo just quoted the lyrics that are Howlin' Wolf's, the rest come from various Robert Johnson songs. Not, as I said before, that it matters particularly. Except, apparently, to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiss of fire Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Can you feel that burning sensation Aquamarine? Because you just got burned and your ass is on fire. Her ass is on fire cause she's so hot ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonOfDarkness Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 What the fuck is your problem with me? Oh wait--I know who you are . . . Such harsh words from a lady? My my... You don't know jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 And what's more, I'm not interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonOfDarkness Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Such harsh words from a lady? My my... You don't know jack. Feel better now Hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatbo Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 wow... i just got on after a couple of days off and i never! i would never intentionally 'burn' anyone-especially aqua.... i never realized she had taken a position opposite (nor do i currently see one). and had i, well, i would made more effort to display a difference of opinion rather than anything else. back to our regularly scheduled nonsense.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Her ass is on fire cause she's so hot ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 wow... i just got on after a couple of days off and i never! i would never intentionally 'burn' anyone-especially aqua.... i never realized she had taken a position opposite (nor do i currently see one). and had i, well, i would made more effort to display a difference of opinion rather than anything else. back to our regularly scheduled nonsense.... It's OK, it wasn't a position opposite to yours--the "burning" was in our friend's head*. I know that's not your style. (*Except I am hot, though. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorer714 Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 It's OK, it wasn't a position opposite to yours--the "burning" was in our friend's head*. I know that's not your style. (*Except I am hot, though. ) Hot indeed!!!! Too Hot to Handle for Eternal....apparently..... Living in the south makes you smart.....very SMART.....and HOT....very HOT!!! You are SMOKIN' and if anyone tells you different,tell them to come see me! I'll set 'em straight, VERY straight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detigers09 Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Nope, all the lyrics from that song are either from Howlin' Wolf or Robert Johnson. I wouldn't claim they wrote any original lyrics for that song--I wouldn't claim it matters, either, for the reasons discussed above. Please cite which Robert Johnson song these lyrics are from: I went to sleep last night, worked as hard as I can I bring home my money, you take my money, give it to another man I should have quit you baby, such a long time ago I wouldn't be here with all my troubles, down on this killing floor And remind me again why it doesn't matter? Because Jansch took his version of Black Mountainside from Anne Briggs? Please explain the relevance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarmy Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 And remind me again why it doesn't matter? Because Jansch took his version of Black Mountainside from Anne Briggs? Please explain the relevance. Yeah I agree. It doesn't matter because the nature of language (music/lyrics included in that) is to emulate what you think is interesting. If you showed me a previously recorded song that had exactly the same lyrics as a Led Zeppelin song, and Led Zeppelin didn't credit them, I might raise an eyebrow. Let's say the song had a different tune, arrangement, or composition (like most of Led Zeppelin's "plagiarism"), then I think you don't need to cite anyone. ... I think there is only one song in the Led Zeppelin arsenal that is almost a complete copy and no one cares about it: Tangerine is basically "Knowing That I'm Losing You" (Yardbirds), with a different chorus. All these other songs have little snippets of copied lyrics with different music, which I could care less about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bong-Man Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Sometimes those old blues songs became traditional arrangements credited to white men because it was not easy for a black man to get anything copyrighted in the first half of the 20th century. They also really didn't worry about copyrighting their material because at that time, there was no audience for the music. Who was going to buy it ? Bing Crosby fans ?...don't think so. Giving Zep the benefit of the doubt, they began at a time in history when black artists from the early part of the century were just beginning to receive their fair due. They didn't pay or acknowledge for the simple reason it wasn't yet expected, and it cost money (led wallet). The expectations would be different if those songs were released today, or even in 1979 instead of '69. jmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetTheLedOut Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Yeah I agree. It doesn't matter because the nature of language (music/lyrics included in that) is to emulate what you think is interesting. If you showed me a previously recorded song that had exactly the same lyrics as a Led Zeppelin song, and Led Zeppelin didn't credit them, I might raise an eyebrow. Let's say the song had a different tune, arrangement, or composition (like most of Led Zeppelin's "plagiarism"), then I think you don't need to cite anyone. Yes, you do. I think there is only one song in the Led Zeppelin arsenal that is almost a complete copy and no one cares about it: Tangerine is basically "Knowing That I'm Losing You" (Yardbirds), with a different chorus. All these other songs have little snippets of copied lyrics with different music, which I could care less about. Well the reason for that (if I'm not mistaken) is it's a Jimmy Page composition. The industry is pretty lax on self-plagiarism, isn't that right Nickelback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarmy Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Yeah I agree. It doesn't matter because the nature of language (music/lyrics included in that) is to emulate what you think is interesting. If you showed me a previously recorded song that had exactly the same lyrics as a Led Zeppelin song, and Led Zeppelin didn't credit them, I might raise an eyebrow. Let's say the song had a different tune, arrangement, or composition (like most of Led Zeppelin's "plagiarism"), then I think you don't need to cite anyone. Yes, you do. Well, legally you do. Laws can be changed though. I don't see why an artist should get credit unless their actual work is used in the new work. As far as I'm concerned, if someone wants to re-record Kashmir themselves and put their name on it, then it's fine with me. I wouldn't buy it because I've heard it before, not because they took it from Led Zeppelin. Let the people decide if they want to buy it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detigers09 Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Well, legally you do. Laws can be changed though. I don't see why an artist should get credit unless their actual work is used in the new work. As far as I'm concerned, if someone wants to re-record Kashmir themselves and put their name on it, then it's fine with me. I wouldn't buy it because I've heard it before, not because they took it from Led Zeppelin. Let the people decide if they want to buy it or not. Haha, well you have no problem with it because it doesn't affect your wallet. How would you feel if someone stole your work and used it to get rich off of, and you don't see a penny of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59LesPaul Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 The industry is pretty lax on self-plagiarism, isn't that right Nickelback? I don't know,ask John Fogerty..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarmy Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Haha, well you have no problem with it because it doesn't affect your wallet. How would you feel if someone stole your work and used it to get rich off of, and you don't see a penny of it? If someone is able to re-invent my work after it's been used up, then yeah they should get credit for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 A nick here. A smidge there. I hate when Zeppelin is defined by their early borrowings. These are traditional themes. Like everything they ever did was stolen. A small handful of songs in a huge catalog. The artists they "borrowed" from should be glad more records are being bought, and they are in fact remembered at all thanks to Zeppelin acknowledging them. How many of us knew who Howlin Wolf was before Robert mentioned his love of him? And do the blues afficianados who know Ledbelly really buy Zeppelin records? I suppose the Bonham estate should pay Bernie Purdie a gratuity for Bonzo mastering his shuffle on Fool in the Rain. It was his beat afterall! Where does it end? How deep do we need to go? Good call on Jansche's "borrowing" by the way above poster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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