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Allegations of Plagiarism


LedNoodle

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Why was Led Zeppelin brought up in a non-music forum?

Have you read Dixon's autobiography I Am the Blues: the Willie Dixon Story? Dixon admits in it that he was thankful that Led Zeppelin settled out of court because there was a good chance given the length of time it took for him to file the complaint (16 years) that the court might not allow it to proceed. I got the feeling that the people wanting to take court action the most was the record label, and not Dixon who seemed somewhat laid back about it all. They could only settle on the issue of lyrics as they could not prove that the music of both songs were the same.

Meg

willie had also brought suit against ARC music (the music publisher at chess) along with muddy waters almost a decade before and even though they both won, they collected very little. some of that money was earned when groups like zeppelin righteously covered their material.

zeppelin mostly had to deal with robert throwing every blues pastiche he knew into songs-HMMT is a fine example (as well as 'lemon song').

what did the music have to do with robert's version of willie's lyrics (or steve marriots, for that matter)? jimmy's riffs are pretty much his own.

it is known that before zep2 was put out the group met to discuss the copyright-and thought they would be alright. after reading all the interviews and court documents, i am of the opinion that if it was questionable, peter grant might have recommended that more money might be made after the fact with a settlement, than with sharing a questionable copyright upfront.

willie dixon is not a naive innocent, either. several of his songs have lyrics and musical figures that can be traced back to library of congress field recordings, which, if made today, would be the same as a copyright. the first bluesmen to publish their music were really taking credit for some songs passed down in the folk song tradition. bob dylan went through much the same thing....and paid.

could zeppelin have avoided alot of court time and chinks in their cred? of course they could have, but who was to know what would still be selling 35 years from now. had zep2 sold 100,000 copies, no one would have noticed....

the beatles, the worlds biggest pop songwriters ever, tried everything to invest in their future with their prolific songwriting and still ended up getting screwed out of 51%. figure that out. many other sixties bands without giant songwriters (like the yardbirds) toured for years at a time and went home with no money at the end of the day.

zeppelin's management made a firm decision right when the band first started-nobody screws this band. and sometimes to keep from being screwed, some got screwed. grant tried his best not to dirty his artists hands. for that they loved him and did what he said.

myself, if robert had never written any good lyrics (he has), and had filled the entire zep catalogue with stolen snatches of his favorite tunes, well, then that would be another story...

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I've never really posted on this topic before, but I have a few thoughts on it. Covering a song is fine in the world of music; you just have to give credit to the original artist. Several of Zeppelin's early songs are covers of Howlin' Wolf/Willie Dixon: You Shook Me, I Can't Quit You, How Many More Times, Whole Lotta Love, The Lemon Song, Bring it On Home...and no credit was given.

both 'you shook me' and 'i can't quit you, babe' were credited correctly.

HMMT....who do you pay? wolf? albert king? jeff beck (bolero)? the orgins of "steal away" are old, old traditional gospel.

bring it on home-the royalty was corrected without a lawsuit, and credit changed on later pressings. anyway, not evn a simple case of plagerism. after the sonny boy verse, it's all zep-over 3 minutes! do you give sonny boy that because you led off with a cover for one verse? some bad advice there. they should have filed for two seperate songs, i think...

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Hi All,

Well here's me two pennath.

Boys and Girls, we all have a tendency to love and support Led Zeppelin, what ever the truth is. I am also guilty of this, its only natural when you become a "FANATIC" of something, you tend to only see what you want and wont have a word said against it, under pain of death to that person who is only trying to point out the truth to you via the facts.

And the facts are plain to see, if you can just open your eyes wide enough or take off the blinkers for a second.

Led Zeppelin are only guilty of not crediting the artist's whom they borrowed music and lyrics from, thus denying them the credit and the money for using there work, totally guilty.

We all know that Willie Dixon was successful in his lawsuit against Led Zeppelin, but where did Mr Dixon get his "Music and Lyrics" from? Did he credit the people that he borrowed from on his recordings or did he use their work uncredited?

Many Blues players did this, which is why the Led Zeppelin Boys thought it OK to behave the same way as the Blues Men did, only difference is Led Zeppelin made million's upon million's of $'s and £'s where as the Blues Men remained not so well off financially. May be just being jealous, who knows? But the boys should have credited them anyway, in my opinion.

Now we all think of "The Blues" as the "Black man's" music, but wait a minute, didn't the "White man" bring music to America before the "Black man"? So isn't the music of the "The Blues" much borrowed from the White American's. Gospel music, from where The Blues is very much influenced came to America from England with the Pilgrim Fathers.

As Robert Plant once said "This song came over with the Pilgrim Fathers, then became a Black song, and then we turned it in to this, Gallows Pole". Since then Led Zeppelin have been influenced by many cultures, Indian, Arab, The Black Americans and the White ones.

To me they have blended the worlds music in to one, we call it "Led Zeppelin", and it is the greatest music I have ever heard. I say this because they have taken me on a trip through music genres that until I heard "Led Zeppelin", I would never have listened to or liked. Willie Dixon never did that for me, nor has any other band or artist, only "Led Zeppelin".

Weather at home, in the car or on the computer, Led Zeppelin are always in my ear and heart.

So I say this, forgive them their mistakes because they have given the world a truly unique experience in music.

God bless them and all that listen too them.

Regards, Danny

Nice post :D

I've always considered Led-Zeppelin to be the finished product....they took all this great music to a maximum level. it couldn't go any higher! and it didn't get any better!

for anyone who wants to learn more about the music translation? just order any John or Alan Lomax books. I have a few.

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I don't respond to them directly because that's exactly what they want, rather I simply fight back by digging up the dirt on the bands those people follow, in their own backyard - their artist forums and videos. Allegations of artists ripping of another artist is not confined to Led Zeppelin, never has been. Google can be your best friend.

This has been my more recent approach. I must add this does indeed work the best....right on :)

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I've never really posted on this topic before, but I have a few thoughts on it. Covering a song is fine in the world of music; you just have to give credit to the original artist. Several of Zeppelin's early songs are covers of Howlin' Wolf/Willie Dixon: You Shook Me, I Can't Quit You, How Many More Times, Whole Lotta Love, The Lemon Song, Bring it On Home...and no credit was given. Willie Dixon and, to a certain extent, Howlin' Wolf, were probably two of the greatest blues lyricists of all time. Imagine that you provided the lyrics and the basic song structure for a band, who then takes this and uses it to get rich and become one of the most famous bands in history. Not only do you not see a cent from this, you are also not recognized as the writer who made it all happen. If I were Willie Dixon, I would have sued also.

The fact is that yes, many of these blues lyrics have been thrown around throughout the years, many originating early on with the men of Robert Johnson and Son House's era. However, when you take an entire song and label it as your own, that is wrong. Many artists put out amazing covers of blues songs while still crediting the original artist: The Allman Brothers, Cream, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Johnny Winter, the Rolling Stones (I can't find any specific info on the Stones, but I believe they did), Aerosmith even, etc.

That said, does it take away from Zeppelin's musicianship? I don't think so. The band really transformed these songs out of straight blues into rock and roll, and nothing can take away from that. They also wrote some of the greatest rock songs ever written, which shows they are not the hacks many people believe them to be. However, I think that to deny credit where credit is due, just so that you can make an extra $.03 per song, or whatever the law was, seems unprofessional to me. Either way, to me it doesn't really matter; what's done is done, and the world got some great music!

this is in no way a flame...

the fact of the matter is how can you trace most of these songs to an original owner?....it's impossible! every year more and more old Blues recordings surface. you mention Robert Johnson and son House how about Charlie Patten or better yet even Leadbelly? it's seems artist like Dixion/Wolf/ Hooker started to take credit for their music first. maybe we should call these great musicians thieves as well. it's never ending!

when you know you have something as big as Zeppelin had you have no choice but to claim it as your own. when you look at it now it seems wrong but back then it was the smartest thing for the band to do.

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What bugs me the most is these idiots seem to like ignoring the other great songs of totally original stuff, which makes up 97% of their songs...

I think another reason they borrowed lyrics early on, is because none of them were totally developed as lyricists yet. Plant's first song he wrote was Thank You.

Which he wrote by plagiarizing Stand By Me, expert. Might want to bone up on your facts before you start popping off like Wile E. Coyote, super genius.

Love,

Billy

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this is in no way a flame...

the fact of the matter is how can you trace most of these songs to an original owner?....it's impossible! every year more and more old Blues recordings surface. you mention Robert Johnson and son House how about Charlie Patten or better yet even Leadbelly? it's seems artist like Dixion/Wolf/ Hooker started to take credit for their music first. maybe we should call these great musicians thieves as well. it's never ending!

when you know you have something as big as Zeppelin had you have no choice but to claim it as your own. when you look at it now it seems wrong but back then it was the smartest thing for the band to do.

I'm with you 100%.

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Which he wrote by plagiarizing Stand By Me, expert. Might want to bone up on your facts before you start popping off like Wile E. Coyote, super genius.

Love,

Billy

What about "if 6 was 9" by Hendrix?

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Which he wrote by plagiarizing Stand By Me, expert. Might want to bone up on your facts before you start popping off like Wile E. Coyote, super genius.

Love,

Billy

i don't see anywhere where that is said. And yeah, "if 6 was 9" did have stuff in Thank You. I'm just saying, original or not, that was the first song Plant wrote all the vocals to. Im saying they weren't as developed as lyricists by then is all.

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both 'you shook me' and 'i can't quit you, babe' were credited correctly.

HMMT....who do you pay? wolf? albert king? jeff beck (bolero)? the orgins of "steal away" are old, old traditional gospel.

bring it on home-the royalty was corrected without a lawsuit, and credit changed on later pressings. anyway, not evn a simple case of plagerism. after the sonny boy verse, it's all zep-over 3 minutes! do you give sonny boy that because you led off with a cover for one verse? some bad advice there. they should have filed for two seperate songs, i think...

Ah, thanks for the info on that. I couldn't find out for sure...and I know they began to credit on later releasings of those albums, so I checking on my cd cases would not have given me the full story.

I also thought How Many More Years was written by Howlin' Wolf, but I didn't realize it was traditional.

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this is in no way a flame...

the fact of the matter is how can you trace most of these songs to an original owner?....it's impossible! every year more and more old Blues recordings surface. you mention Robert Johnson and son House how about Charlie Patten or better yet even Leadbelly? it's seems artist like Dixion/Wolf/ Hooker started to take credit for their music first. maybe we should call these great musicians thieves as well. it's never ending!

when you know you have something as big as Zeppelin had you have no choice but to claim it as your own. when you look at it now it seems wrong but back then it was the smartest thing for the band to do.

Just wondering, can you give me some examples of songs that Dixon or Hooker took from older bluesmen? I've always wondered if they borrowed from the older delta blues, but I could never find anything on it. I really thought that Dixon wrote all of his own songs, and I thought Hooker was the same, but I guess I was wrong. It would be interesting to see some of them...

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The recycling of lyrics in songs is termed "floating lyrics". One definifition is "Floating lyrics’ (also called 'maverick stanzas') in folk-music tradition are lines that have circulated so long in folk communities that tradition-steeped singers call them instantly to mind and rearrange them constantly, and often unconsciously, to suit their personal and community aesthetics”.

Carl Lindahl, ‘Thrills and Miracles: Legends of Lloyd Chandler’, Journal of Folklore Research, Bloomington: May-Dec 2004, Vol. 41, Issue 2/3, pp. 133-72

There was a Chicago bluesman Big Moose Walker who claimed Dixon "stole" his music:

"One time Donny asked him if Willie Dixon wrote "Little Red Rooster." He turned and said, "Willie Dixon was nothin' but a bass playing thief", and that Big Mama Thorton wrote "Little Red Rooster." And that Willie Dixon stole a few of his songs too."

http://www.rickieleejones.com/friends/quebeccity.htm

"Sitting on Top of the World" (also rendered as "Sittin' on Top of the World") is a folk-blues song written by Walter Vinson (also known as Walter Jacobs) and Lonnie Chatmon, core members of the Mississippi Sheiks, a popular country blues band of the 1930s. Walter Vinson claimed to have composed “Sitting on Top of the World” one morning after playing a white dance in Greenwood, Mississippi. However, the melody was almost certainly taken from Tommy Johnson. Victor records, the copyright holders of Johnson's 'Big Road Blues', sued OKeh Records and settled out of court. A few eyebrows ere raised when Chester Burnett (Howlin' Wolf) would later give himself credit for the song when he recorded it and published it under his name in 1957. Don't know if he was ever sued.

John Lee Hooker tried to sue ZZ Top over "La Grange" but lost the case on the grounds that the song "Boogie Chillun" was in the public domain, and thus no longer had ownership even if he claimed to have composed it. See:

http://cip.law.ucla.edu/cases/case_lacienegazztop.html

There were more in-depth discussions in Robert Palmer's 1982 book "Deep Blues" which I haven't read for sometime. Need to go back and look them up.

Just wondering, can you give me some examples of songs that Dixon or Hooker took from older bluesmen? I've always wondered if they borrowed from the older delta blues, but I could never find anything on it. I really thought that Dixon wrote all of his own songs, and I thought Hooker was the same, but I guess I was wrong. It would be interesting to see some of them...
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I also thought How Many More Years was written by Howlin' Wolf, but I didn't realize it was traditional.

howling wolf did write 'how many more years', which, melodywise, if not lightyears away, then at least six months from the zeppelin song. and the wolf (and his main guitar player hubert sumlin) were many things, but they weren't 'psychedelic jazz'...

that, of course is a reference to jonesys' awesome bassline, which sounds similar to the bassline the yardbirds played on their cover of 'smokestack lightning' bbc sessions

but zeppelin has paid and does credit howlin wolf (chester burnett) since 1993.

but the wolf didn't write 'the hunter' or 'rosie' or 'steal away' (which you can hear robert do a version of on a prezeppelin recording)

here's a comment from jimmy page on this song:

GW: How did "How Many More Times" evolve?

Page: That has the kitchen sink on it, doesn't it? It was made up of little

pieces I developed when I was with the Yardbirds, as were other numbers

such as "Dazed And Confused". It was played live in the studio with cues

and nods.

GW: John Bonham received songwriting credit for "How Many More Times". What was

his role?

Page: I initiated most of the changes and riffs, but if something was derived

from the blues, I tried to split the credit between band members. [ED.

Note: Robert Plant did not receive any songwriting credits on Led

Zeppelin I, as he was still under contract to CBS.] And that was fair,

especially if any of the fellows had input on the arrangement. But, of

course, you never get any thanks afterwards -- and that comment, by the

way, is not directed towards John Bonham.

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i've been looking for this article for a few days now and finally found it. it has the most extensive coverage of 'hmmt' i've ever read. please click the link after you read and scroll to the bottom to see links to the albums/artists/and songs mentioned. on the right side is a list of zeppelin songs analyzed the same way.....

from turnmeondeadman.net

LED ZEPPELIN'S INFLUENCES

How Many More Times

"How Many More Times" from Led Zeppelin's debut album is perhaps the best example of Robert Plant's devotion to the blues, as he pays homage to several blues artists on this track. Led Astray, Led Zeppelin's Sources of Inspiration and Zeppelin Classics all include "How Many More Years" by Howlin' Wolf, and these compilations suggest that this is the source for "How Many More Times". Other than a basic blues structure and the three shared words in the title, however, these tracks have little in common. Led Zeppelin's Sources of Inspiration also points to Howlin' Wolf's "No Place to Go", also known as "You Gonna Wreck My Life", and this is actually a better point of reference for "How Many More Times", as the opening lines of this song ("How many more times, treat me the way you wanna do?/When I give you all my love, please, please be true/I'll give you all I've got to give, rings, pearls, and all/I've got to get you together baby, I'm sure, sure you're gonna crawl") echo "No Place to Go" ("How many times you gonna treat me like you do/You took all of my money and all of my love too"). "No Place to Go" also features a hypnotic walking bass line that is somewhat like the one John Paul Jones used in "How Many More Times," though less complex. Still, "How Many More Times" goes well beyond these Howlin' Wolf tracks. "How Many More Times" explores a number of musical themes and it draws from a variety of sources to produce one of Led Zeppelin's early classics, though not entirely free of issues of plagiarism.

In the lyrics, Robert Plant pays homage to several blues and folk artists. For the most part, the lyrics of "How Many More Times" allude to a number of recordings without copy them. One such source is the Weavers' song "Kisses Sweeter Than Wine," which was a hit for Jimmie Rodgers in 1957.

Well, when I was a young man never been kissed

I got to thinkin' it over how much I had missed

So I got me a girl and I kissed her and then, and then

Oh, lordy, well I kissed her again

Because she had kisses sweeter than wine

Well I asked her to marry and to be my sweet wife

I told her we'd be so happy for the rest of our life

I begged and I pleaded like a natural man

And then, whoops oh lordy, well she gave me her hand

Because she had kisses sweeter than wine

Well we worked very hard both me and my wife

Workin' hand-in-hand to have a good life

We had corn in the field and wheat in the bin

And then, whoops oh lord, I was the father of twins

Because she had kisses sweeter than wine

Well our children they numbered just about four

And they all had a sweetheart a-knockin' on the door

They all got married and they wouldn't hesitate

I was, whoops oh lord, the grandfather of eight

Because she had kisses sweeter than wine

Well now that I'm old and I'm a-ready to go

I get to thinkin' what happened a long time ago

Had a lot of kids, a lot of trouble and pain

But then, whoops oh lordy, well I'd do it all again

Because she had kisses sweeter than wine

This is most likely the inspiration for the spoken interlude in "How Many More Times" but Robert Plant's lyrics go their own way, including a reference to Sonny Boy Williamson's "Good Morning Little School Girl."

I was a young man, I couldn't resist

Started thinkin' it all over, just what I had missed

Got me a girl and I kissed her and then, and then

Whoops, oh Lordy, well I did it again

Now I got ten children of my own

I got another child on the way that makes eleven

But I'm in constant heaven

I know it's all right in my mind

'Cause I got a little schoolgirl and she's all mine

I can't get through to her 'cause it doesn't permit

But I'm gonna give her everything I've got to give

Where Robert Plant paid homage to "Kisses Sweeter Than Wine" without excessively quoting the song, the same cannot be said for his use of lyrics from Albert King's 1967 song "The Hunter", which was written by the members of Booker T. & the MGs. "The Hunter" opens with the lines:

They call me the hunter, that's my name

A pretty woman like you, is my only game

I bought me a love gun, just the other day

And I aim to aim it your way

Ain't no use to hide, ain't no use to run

'Cause I've got you in the sights of my love gun

Here Robert Plant makes only slight variations from the original:

Well they call me the hunter, that's my name

They call me the hunter, that's how I got my fame

Ain't no need to hide, Ain't no need to run

'Cause I've got you in the sights of my gun

From there "How Many More Times ventures into "O Rosie" and "Steal Away". British blues artist Alexis Korner recorded tracks with these titles in the late-1960s. In fact, Robert Plant co-wrote a song called "Steal Away" with Alexis Korner and Steve Miller, which the three of them recorded in 1968. Korner's "O Rosie" is credited as "Trad. Arr. Korner". Both of these tracks are available on Alexis Korner - On the Move. In "How Many More Times" Robert Plant may have been tipping his cap to Alexis Korner, but "O Rosie" and "Steal Away" are in turn references to field recordings made by Alan Lomax in the southern United States. "O Rosie" is a prison work song Alan Lomax recorded at Parchman Farm in the late 1940s and included on Prison Songs: Historical Recordings from Parchman Farm 1947-48, Volume 2, which is part of the Alan Lomax collection on the Rounder label. This collection contains "O Rosie" along with another song called "Rosie", not to mention that a couple of other tracks refer to Rosie in the lyrics. The liner notes for this collection explain that Rosie was the female name most frequently used in work songs (even a song called "Katy Left Memphis" mentions Rosie). At least one version of "O Rosie" called simply "Rosie" recorded by Alan Lomax had been released well before Led Zeppelin I. "Rosie" was included in a collection of Lomax recordings called Negro Prison Songs that was released in 1957. Lomax had made the recordings in 1947 and 1948 but their release was delayed by a decade because Lomax was critical of the brutality of the prison labor system in the South. Lomax's original motivation for recording in prisons is that he thought these places most closely replicated the conditions of slavery. What he found instead was a distinct style of work song. I'm not clear on what reforms had been made between 1948 and 1957 that made the release of these tapes any less controversial—it wasn't until 1972 that Parchman Farm was demolished—but apparently many of the worst aspects of the prison labor system were being reformed in the years after World War II. It's safe to say that these reforms went hand in hand with the gains of the civil rights movement. The liner notes for Prison Songs: Historical Recordings from Parchman Farm 1947-48, Volume 2 say that as late as the 1970s Lomax managed to find ex-prisoners who were still able to sing "Rosie", indicating that this was one of the most common of the prison work songs.

"Steal Away" is a spiritual that can be found on a Rounder CD that contains more Lomax field recordings called Negro Religious Songs and Services. "Steal Away" dates back to the time of slavery and expresses a desire for deliverance from bondage and a strong Christian faith. This song has remained a part of African-American religious practice and has been widely recorded over the years. "Steal Away" was also one of the "freedom songs", music used to inspire activists in the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 1960s.

The closing refrain of "How Many More Times" contains even more references to blues songs. The line "barrelhouse all night long" comes from Robert Johnson's "Traveling Riverside Blues", which Led Zeppelin performed in live sets. "Traveling Riverside Blues" is the source of the line "You can squeeze my lemon 'til the juice run down my leg", which Plant worked into "The Lemon Song" on Led Zeppelin II, and the version of "How Many More Times" on BBC Sessions includes a break where Plant quotes the lemon reference from "Traveling Riverside Blues" as well. "How Many More Times" closes with the line "I've got to get to you, baby, baby, please come home," which appears to be a reference to Bessie Smith's "Baby Won't You Please Come Home". "How Many More Times" pays homage to these blues classics without relying too heavily on them, and these references only add to the aura of this song.

An interesting point of reference for Led Zeppelin's "How Many More Times" is a song by the same title recorded in 1964 by the British beat band Gary Farr and the T-Bones. This song is essentially a rewrite of Howlin' Wolf's "No Place to Go" with only minor variations in the lyrics. Led Zeppelin would probably have heard this song and it may have had some influence on them in writing their own "How Many More Times," but Led Zeppelin's work was much more original. In general, it's not accurate to say that Howlin' Wolf was the source for "How Many More Times". Though Robert Plant had clearly listened to Howlin' Wolf, he did not make substantial lifts from his material for "How Many More Times". Booker T. & the MGs, however, should have given songwriting credits for Plant's extensive use of lyrics from "The Hunter". Also, for his part, Jimmy Page engaged in a little borrowing in this track—and this involves an indirect connection to Howlin' Wolf. As Will Shade points out, the bass line from "How Many More Years" follows the Yardbirds' cover of Howlin' Wolf's "Smokestack Lightning" closely. [1] This is particularly evident on the Yardbirds' BBC Sessions collection. The significant thing here is that the Yardbirds recorded this in December, 1965—well before Jimmy Page joined the band.

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:blink: Wow. Great read beatbo... thanks.

For what it's worth HMMT is my second favorite song from Zep I right behind D&C. Hell, they could have put those two songs on one album and called it Shit and it would still sound glorious to my ears.

:D

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That was a great article on one of my all-time favorite songs. However, it neglected to mention the guitar solo similiar to Beck's Bolero, which Page played on and wrote most of in 1966 with Jeff Beck, Nicky Hopkins, JPJ, and Keith Moon.

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I wouldn't trust that site. I've spoken with the author Todd Gardner before and he seems to have some axe to grind against Led Zeppelin. He'd been on wikipedia previously vandalising articles on Led Zeppelin before he created that site.

i've been looking for this article for a few days now and finally found it. it has the most extensive coverage of 'hmmt' i've ever read. please click the link after you read and scroll to the bottom to see links to the albums/artists/and songs mentioned. on the right side is a list of zeppelin songs analyzed the same way.....

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meg said:

I wouldn't trust that site. I've spoken with the author Todd Gardner before and he seems to have some axe to grind against Led Zeppelin. He'd been on wikipedia previously vandalising articles on Led Zeppelin before he created that site.

well, the references he pulled out for HMMT is spot on. i have a couple of those albums and songs from many more, and he seemed to state the case for robert doing blues pastiches rather than plagarizing outright. i didn't get a sense of zep hate there...not like the will shade guy.

such as..

but Led Zeppelin's work was much more original. In general, it's not accurate to say that Howlin' Wolf was the source for "How Many More Times". Though Robert Plant had clearly listened to Howlin' Wolf, he did not make substantial lifts from his material for "How Many More Times".
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Jimmy didn't make Black Mountainside instrumental - track down Bert Jansch's Black Waterside released before BMS. Jimmy has mugged one of his greatest guitar heroes.

The unpaletable truth (for a lot of you) is that they were guilty of lots of plagiarism. Which wouldn't have been a problem if they'd acknowledged the original artists.

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Ahh not entirely correct. "Black Waterside" wasn't written by Jansch. It was a traditional folk song. Although Page's version follows Jansch's arrangement, it was recorded in a different tuning. If you wish to insist on proper crediting it should have read "Trad. arranged J. Page"

Jimmy didn't make Black Mountainside instrumental - track down Bert Jansch's Black Waterside released before BMS. Jimmy has mugged one of his greatest guitar heroes.

The unpaletable truth (for a lot of you) is that they were guilty of lots of plagiarism. Which wouldn't have been a problem if they'd acknowledged the original artists.

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Here's an article from 1969 on the subject:

NOV. 12, 13,1969—NEWS-RECORD (PA)

Record Review Board

By TONY PALERMO

LED ZEPPLIN (sic) II - Led Zepplln

I just read the trade papers and the new Zepplin LP has already surpassed the $1-million mark in pre-orders. I've heard a lot of LPs in my life, but this one really gets to me. It's disgusting because the Zepplin, although more than capable musicians are the biggest

thieves I've come across. Borrowing riffs and lyrics from other groups has been going on for as long as music has been in existence. An old song, "I'm Always Chasing Rainbows," was taken directly from a classical composition by Chopin.

But the new Led Zepplin LP should be retitled "Band of Thieves," because of the extremes that the group went to in producing their version of somebody else's music. One song, "Thank You," takes some of its melody origins directly from the Electric Flag's "You

Don't Realize." But the real clincher is the "Lemon Song."

Last spring I read that it would be released as a single. Well it wasn't, but it's in the LP. Word for word, note for note, they've copied the original, added about four lines of inane lyrics and called it their own, "-The Lemon Song " Howlin' Wolf gets no credit for writing!

This means of creating music is fast becoming the source of "new musical ideas. Too many white kids are digging up old blues tunes, reproducing them note for note and calling them originals.

The whole idea is deplorable, but understandable in the case of the young, status-conscious, inexperienced musicians. But, in the case of Jimmy Page and Company, it is simply inexcusable.

I realize this group is something fantastic on stage, but on principle, I refuse to endorse this album. The Zepplin can climb back into their dirigible and create something new and

original, as far as I'm concerned.

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Here's an article from 1969 on the subject:

NOV. 12, 13,1969—NEWS-RECORD (PA)

Record Review Board

By TONY PALERMO

LED ZEPPLIN (sic) II - Led Zepplln

I just read the trade papers and the new Zepplin LP has already surpassed the $1-million mark in pre-orders. I've heard a lot of LPs in my life, but this one really gets to me. It's disgusting because the Zepplin, although more than capable musicians are the biggest

thieves I've come across. Borrowing riffs and lyrics from other groups has been going on for as long as music has been in existence. An old song, "I'm Always Chasing Rainbows," was taken directly from a classical composition by Chopin.

But the new Led Zepplin LP should be retitled "Band of Thieves," because of the extremes that the group went to in producing their version of somebody else's music. One song, "Thank You," takes some of its melody origins directly from the Electric Flag's "You

Don't Realize." But the real clincher is the "Lemon Song."

Last spring I read that it would be released as a single. Well it wasn't, but it's in the LP. Word for word, note for note, they've copied the original, added about four lines of inane lyrics and called it their own, "-The Lemon Song " Howlin' Wolf gets no credit for writing!

This means of creating music is fast becoming the source of "new musical ideas. "Too many white kids are digging up old blues tunes, reproducing them note for note and calling them originals."

The whole idea is deplorable, but understandable in the case of the young, status-conscious, inexperienced musicians. But, in the case of Jimmy Page and Company, it is simply inexcusable.

I realize this group is something fantastic on stage, but on principle, I refuse to endorse this album. The Zepplin can climb back into their dirigible and create something new and

original, as far as I'm concerned.

I wonder why people are so quick to attack "White Kids" when it comes to "digging up old blues tunes, reproducing them note for note and calling them originals." when it was the "Black Kids" who first lifted the music from the "White Gospel Musicians" in the first place.

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