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That's why I think you should take a better look at yourself, before criticizing others for the lack of understanding. It's as easy as doing what you're doing, but it doesn't hurt either. It's worth it at most times. You might find your behaviour logical, but you can also see that most people here don't. It's time to comsider whether it's not really you, after all, who should try to change the attitude.

The attitude about what

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I like you Pip. You seem cool. :D

It's hard not to generalize when it comes to women because there definately seems to be a pattern there. Most of them want to get married and have babies and most like romantic nonense and sappy movies. How does a guy ignore the bad qualities of women he meets and gets to know? :blink:

Well I don't think that liking romantic stuff and sappy movies is a bad trait NOR is it reserved for women (My man loooves the BBC series of Pride and Prejudice - it is his favorite thing to put on!!).. and wanting to get married and have babies (not that there's anything wrong with that - that's what I did! hehehe) isn't just a female thing either ... otherwise it wouldn't happen...

to ignore the things you perceive to be 'bad' you have to focus on the good I guess. Why do you want to go out with her if you are ONLY seeing bad?

Anyway this seems like it is something that could easily be cleaned up! I think another common misconception of women is that they 'love drama' - that is totally untrue - and maybe she just doesn't want a drama - she just wants things to be a bit easier because people think women like drama and so we always get surrounded by it when we don't want it...

maybe you should read some Jane Austen - it is actually satirical and back then you couldn't even touch a woman you wanted to marry unless you asked her to dance! hahaha and just to ask her to marry you meant asking her dad first! (I think Jane Austen was actually a feminist herself because she showed the ridiculous side of all of that)

but afterward you should read the Female Eunuch by (yes that's right) Germaine Greer. Because it is important for you to understand that women have been damaged as a whole by being put into boxes for too long...

I actually have a friend who sounds a lot like you extremely shy and never understands the whys and hows and whats of women and started getting frustrated by it and going on about 'women this and women that' and I said to him "if you are going to start hating women then you must do us all a favor and get interested in men" I'm not saying that to YOU I'm just saying that is what I ended up having to say to him...

The last thing any woman wants is a man who doesn't like women - that is the basis of control and psychological abuse within so many relationships today!

woah long post!

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Well I don't think that liking romantic stuff and sappy movies is a bad trait NOR is it reserved for women (My man loooves the BBC series of Pride and Prejudice - it is his favorite thing to put on!!).. and wanting to get married and have babies (not that there's anything wrong with that - that's what I did! hehehe) isn't just a female thing either ... otherwise it wouldn't happen...

to ignore the things you perceive to be 'bad' you have to focus on the good I guess. Why do you want to go out with her if you are ONLY seeing bad?

Anyway this seems like it is something that could easily be cleaned up! I think another common misconception of women is that they 'love drama' - that is totally untrue - and maybe she just doesn't want a drama - she just wants things to be a bit easier because people think women like drama and so we always get surrounded by it when we don't want it...

maybe you should read some Jane Austen - it is actually satirical and back then you couldn't even touch a woman you wanted to marry unless you asked her to dance! hahaha and just to ask her to marry you meant asking her dad first! (I think Jane Austen was actually a feminist herself because she showed the ridiculous side of all of that)

but afterward you should read the Female Eunuch by (yes that's right) Germaine Greer. Because it is important for you to understand that women have been damaged as a whole by being put into boxes for too long...

I actually have a friend who sounds a lot like you extremely shy and never understands the whys and hows and whats of women and started getting frustrated by it and going on about 'women this and women that' and I said to him "if you are going to start hating women then you must do us all a favor and get interested in men" I'm not saying that to YOU I'm just saying that is what I ended up having to say to him...

The last thing any woman wants is a man who doesn't like women - that is the basis of control and psychological abuse within so many relationships today!

woah long post!

That may be the greatest piece of writing I've have ever seen on this chat forum board. Maybe now, we can officially end this topic.

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Well I don't think that liking romantic stuff and sappy movies is a bad trait NOR is it reserved for women (My man loooves the BBC series of Pride and Prejudice - it is his favorite thing to put on!!).. and wanting to get married and have babies (not that there's anything wrong with that - that's what I did! hehehe) isn't just a female thing either ... otherwise it wouldn't happen...

to ignore the things you perceive to be 'bad' you have to focus on the good I guess. Why do you want to go out with her if you are ONLY seeing bad?

Anyway this seems like it is something that could easily be cleaned up! I think another common misconception of women is that they 'love drama' - that is totally untrue - and maybe she just doesn't want a drama - she just wants things to be a bit easier because people think women like drama and so we always get surrounded by it when we don't want it...

maybe you should read some Jane Austen - it is actually satirical and back then you couldn't even touch a woman you wanted to marry unless you asked her to dance! hahaha and just to ask her to marry you meant asking her dad first! (I think Jane Austen was actually a feminist herself because she showed the ridiculous side of all of that)

but afterward you should read the Female Eunuch by (yes that's right) Germaine Greer. Because it is important for you to understand that women have been damaged as a whole by being put into boxes for too long...

I actually have a friend who sounds a lot like you extremely shy and never understands the whys and hows and whats of women and started getting frustrated by it and going on about 'women this and women that' and I said to him "if you are going to start hating women then you must do us all a favor and get interested in men" I'm not saying that to YOU I'm just saying that is what I ended up having to say to him...

The last thing any woman wants is a man who doesn't like women - that is the basis of control and psychological abuse within so many relationships today!

woah long post!

To me liking romantic stuff,etc is a bad trait. I just think it's silly.

When i chatted with this woman on new years she seemed very cool. But now she does not seem as cool. She wasn't good at letting me know she was interested in me so i had to go about finding out which let to my buddy getting involved. Now she seems like the type of woman who likes things that i don't. She is pretty though. But the routine she is putting me through is annoying me.

I have met tons of women who love drama. Not all do but tons do. That''s one of the reasons women hook up with "bad boys".

Yeah i guess it was pretty bad in the old days. That would be horrible if you couldn't touch a woman unless you asked her to dance. That's stupid. And if i was ever going to get married (which i am not) i wouldn't be asking her father for permission. Hell i wouldn't even be the one doing the proposing. She would have to.

I don't agree that women today have been damaged by anything. So much caters to them. What examples can you give?

I am not extremely shy and i understand most of the why's and hows of what women do and don't do and what they like and don't like. I just don't like a lot of it.

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Ok this is the last post I am going to make about this because you are actually being offensive now (sorry I am sure you are ok but I took offense to a couple of things you said just then so after this I will remove myself from this discussion).

I don't agree that women today have been damaged by anything. So much caters to them. What examples can you give?

Firstly you will have to read a bit more before you are qualified to ask me that - I can't do your research for you I will however give you some examples (I shouldn't have to because they are blatantly clear but since you are ignorant on the subject...)

THE CONGO - There are constant warring factions YET it is safer to be a Soldier there to be a woman - women are raped and mutilated by any side of the warring men. The men do it without retribution in fact the women are shamed and locked up for adultery whereas men can buy their way out of prison for two dollars after murdering a woman. Watch the documentary just made about it by a woman named LISA JACKSON. It isn't just there - there are more women in the world without basic human rights then there are women with them.

even in 'developed' countries there isn't guaranteed freedom from rape. It is a fact that in America 1 in 3 women are sexually assaulted BEFORE THE AGE OF 12. It is the same statistic in Australia - and those are only the REPORTED rapes and assaults that have been found to be TRUE. Women everywhere still physically and physiologically abused within their homes and forced to protect their children from men who hate them (I was a social worker for years before the birth of my daughter - so this is first hand experience).

The fact is that women in our home countries don't have freedom from propositioned or followed on the street, greasily teased by our male workmates, pawed by the boss, used sadistically or against our will by the men we love, or violently terrorized and beaten by a stranger, or a gang of strangers.

there are far more violent crimes against women then there are men - it is just a simple fact.

And by the way - averagely women still earn 80 cents to the (male) dollar in every industry.

i understand most of the why's and hows of what women do and don't do and what they like and don't like.

Because of what I just said - you are either lying or fooling yourself...

Anyway if you don't like women (or the traits you think 'most of them' have) then stay away from us - even the ones you think are 'cool' because we don't need more shaming, we don't need people who are going to make us feel bad about anyone of our sex, we don't need lower self esteem, we just don't need you. And we definitely don't owe it to you to get into a relationship or have sex with you.

Out of any group of people who have been repressed and hurt - women have suffered longest and hardest - and still do.

So seriously - inflict yourself on a bloke instead - Blokes probably have more of the traits that you desire...

This was harsh but you have to snap out of it and wake up to reality...

She is pretty though

I rest my case.

Edited by Pip
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Sorry to everyone else for my outburst but this sort of ignorance is somewhat intolerable.... especially if someone who has a bit of a grudge against women thinks he is owed a relationship with one of us... what the?

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Sorry to everyone else for my outburst but this sort of ignorance is somewhat intolerable.... especially if someone who has a bit of a grudge against women thinks he is owed a relationship with one of us... what the?

Not a problem. I for one, think you "hit the nail on the head".

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Ok this is the last post I am going to make about this because you are actually being offensive now (sorry I am sure you are ok but I took offense to a couple of things you said just then so after this I will remove myself from this discussion).

Firstly you will have to read a bit more before you are qualified to ask me that - I can't do your research for you I will however give you some examples (I shouldn't have to because they are blatantly clear but since you are ignorant on the subject...)

THE CONGO - There are constant warring factions YET it is safer to be a Soldier there to be a woman - women are raped and mutilated by any side of the warring men. The men do it without retribution in fact the women are shamed and locked up for adultery whereas men can buy their way out of prison for two dollars after murdering a woman. Watch the documentary just made about it by a woman named LISA JACKSON. It isn't just there - there are more women in the world without basic human rights then there are women with them.

even in 'developed' countries there isn't guaranteed freedom from rape. It is a fact that in America 1 in 3 women are sexually assaulted BEFORE THE AGE OF 12. It is the same statistic in Australia - and those are only the REPORTED rapes and assaults that have been found to be TRUE. Women everywhere still physically and physiologically abused within their homes and forced to protect their children from men who hate them (I was a social worker for years before the birth of my daughter - so this is first hand experience).

The fact is that women in our home countries don't have freedom from propositioned or followed on the street, greasily teased by our male workmates, pawed by the boss, used sadistically or against our will by the men we love, or violently terrorized and beaten by a stranger, or a gang of strangers.

there are far more violent crimes against women then there are men - it is just a simple fact.

And by the way - averagely women still earn 80 cents to the (male) dollar in every industry.

Because of what I just said - you are either lying or fooling yourself...

Anyway if you don't like women (or the traits you think 'most of them' have) then stay away from us - even the ones you think are 'cool' because we don't need more shaming, we don't need people who are going to make us feel bad about anyone of our sex, we don't need lower self esteem, we just don't need you. And we definitely don't owe it to you to get into a relationship or have sex with you.

Out of any group of people who have been repressed and hurt - women have suffered longest and hardest - and still do.

So seriously - inflict yourself on a bloke instead - Blokes probably have more of the traits that you desire...

This was harsh but you have to snap out of it and wake up to reality...

I rest my case.

Great post, pip.

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Sorry to everyone else for my outburst but this sort of ignorance is somewhat intolerable.... especially if someone who has a bit of a grudge against women thinks he is owed a relationship with one of us... what the?

Pip, Spats is a young man who does not really have a grudge against women so much as he is obsessed with his version of equality. I am sure that he does not wish to offend, but he has his own unique vision of the way life ought to be that inevitably contrasts with others.

While we are waiting for him to find his true match, it is natural that he drives the rest of us nuts with his inner drive for balance. I believe that he realizes that he is not owed a relationship but that he greatly desires one of which he has an idealized image.

We try to help him realize that image in practical terms as best we can, offering our own points of view to adjust his picture closer to something his ideal will be able to happily accept someday.

Thank you for adding your perspective. He often gets distracted by his own mantra, and your slant is refreshing.

Edited by eternal light
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Ok this is the last post I am going to make about this because you are actually being offensive now (sorry I am sure you are ok but I took offense to a couple of things you said just then so after this I will remove myself from this discussion).

Firstly you will have to read a bit more before you are qualified to ask me that - I can't do your research for you I will however give you some examples (I shouldn't have to because they are blatantly clear but since you are ignorant on the subject...)

THE CONGO - There are constant warring factions YET it is safer to be a Soldier there to be a woman - women are raped and mutilated by any side of the warring men. The men do it without retribution in fact the women are shamed and locked up for adultery whereas men can buy their way out of prison for two dollars after murdering a woman. Watch the documentary just made about it by a woman named LISA JACKSON. It isn't just there - there are more women in the world without basic human rights then there are women with them.

even in 'developed' countries there isn't guaranteed freedom from rape. It is a fact that in America 1 in 3 women are sexually assaulted BEFORE THE AGE OF 12. It is the same statistic in Australia - and those are only the REPORTED rapes and assaults that have been found to be TRUE. Women everywhere still physically and physiologically abused within their homes and forced to protect their children from men who hate them (I was a social worker for years before the birth of my daughter - so this is first hand experience).

The fact is that women in our home countries don't have freedom from propositioned or followed on the street, greasily teased by our male workmates, pawed by the boss, used sadistically or against our will by the men we love, or violently terrorized and beaten by a stranger, or a gang of strangers.

there are far more violent crimes against women then there are men - it is just a simple fact.

And by the way - averagely women still earn 80 cents to the (male) dollar in every industry.

Because of what I just said - you are either lying or fooling yourself...

Anyway if you don't like women (or the traits you think 'most of them' have) then stay away from us - even the ones you think are 'cool' because we don't need more shaming, we don't need people who are going to make us feel bad about anyone of our sex, we don't need lower self esteem, we just don't need you. And we definitely don't owe it to you to get into a relationship or have sex with you.

Out of any group of people who have been repressed and hurt - women have suffered longest and hardest - and still do.

So seriously - inflict yourself on a bloke instead - Blokes probably have more of the traits that you desire...

This was harsh but you have to snap out of it and wake up to reality...

I rest my case.

What did i say that offended you?

I am not talking about the Congo or wherever , I am talking about North America. And not women from the past. Women today. Women are catered to a lot. Particularly in the dating world. Which is what i am primarily talking about.

Most women do have those traits i mentioned. Look around. I don't have a grudge against women. There are plenty of traits men have than women don't like. It goes both ways. Just because there are things that women like and do that i have no use for does not mean i hate anyone. There is no hating involved.

Edited by spats
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Pip, Spats is a young man who does not really have a grudge against women so much as he is obsessed with his version of equality. I am sure that he does not wish to offend, but he has his own unique vision of the way life ought to be that inevitably contrasts with others.

While we are waiting for him to find his true match, it is natural that he drives the rest of us nuts with his inner drive for balance. I believe that he realizes that he is not owed a relationship but that he greatly desires one of which he has an idealized image.

We try to help him realize that image in practical terms as best we can, offering our own points of view to adjust his picture closer to something his ideal will be able to happily accept someday.

Thank you for adding your perspective. He often gets distracted by his own mantra, and your slant is refreshing.

Thanks Virginia. I think things should be equal. What is wrong with that? Isn't that what women have been saying they want. I am all for it. :D

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Sorry to everyone else for my outburst but this sort of ignorance is somewhat intolerable.... especially if someone who has a bit of a grudge against women thinks he is owed a relationship with one of us... what the?

Intolerance of what? You have obviously misunderstood something i have said. And i never said i am owed a relationship. You are talking about stuff that i haven't been talking about.

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I am thinking about taking jethro's advice and calling her tonight. But i am flip flopping about it. One minute i think i should do it and the next minute i am thinking that with her attitude she may not be worth the effort. Should i flip a coin? Is listening to your gut instinct the best way to go? What if she brings up what happened with my buddy?

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I am thinking about taking jethro's advice and calling her tonight. But i am flip flopping about it. One minute i think i should do it and the next minute i am thinking that with her attitude she may not be worth the effort. Should i flip a coin? Is listening to your gut instinct the best way to go? What if she brings up what happened with my buddy?

Go with your gut, give her a call and be honest.

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arrrggg! sorry just can't seem to drag myself away because you didn't get my point really... if you have this notion of 'us' and 'them' then you can't get equality. (I do have a notion of 'us' and 'them' myself but that is because I KNOW there isn't equality)

and half of my post was about women in our countries. The fact is that women aren't seen by society as equal... the backlash of feminism is that now men can get the best of both worlds and women still get second best... as in men get sexually liberated women but women get men who don't commit to relationships and who want them to change. So unless you have a holistic approach to feminism and equality then you are only asking women to be 'equal' for your own reasons. We can't just act more equal because worldwide it just isn't true - we just don't have equality.

we can't be seen as equal because we are still objectified on the largest of billboards, we still know by looking at other countries that one bad turn of government and we are the first to suffer (especially single mothers and women in highly religious areas - don't even get me started on that - I am sure that there are many religions governing the society of north America - well every religion has an idea about what women 'should be').

Feminism isn't about women wanting to be like men either ... it is about women wanting to be accepted as whatever we want to be - and any woman anywhere doesn't have that freedom now. I'm not talking jobs I AM talking dating world - even the woman you are trying it on with isn't being accepted by you because she has so-called typical feminine traits... IF she were to act more manly people would complain that she wasn't feminine enough...

look ... it sounds like you have an idea of what you want a woman to be and that instantly means that you just don't get it. Why should any woman have to live up to standards that they don't even know about in the first place (and that are unrealistic because they are made by an individual so wholly unconnected to them - I think I just quoted Jane Austen...)

also the fact that there is a post like this one means that you think you should be able to have a relationship with a woman - it isn't anything you said it is the action of writing about your trials and tribulations in the dating world - that is what tells me that you think you are owed a relationship - otherwise none of us would be here writing about it.

I am sorry man we started out so well but if you keep on with the delusion that you are 'for equality' without actually knowing anything about it and contradicting yourself in the process then maybe you SHOULD read a bit about it.

seriously I think it would really help you - if you want to support equality of women then you will have to get you some knowledge! hehe

every time you generalize about women you are offending me - in answer to that question.

SO if we are going to get on the right footing again (and so neither of us become as popular as a turd in a punch bowl) then you have to really think about how equal women are, how much more objectified we are in your own home town, your own feelings about how you WANT a woman to be - think about how that actually makes you not only negative about women but also unrealistic about people in general.

anyway...

who knows if you will take any of this in?! But I am sure that your primary problem in the dating world is your lack of knowledge ... maybe not just in this area ...

and seriously - show this woman you want to be with this WHOLE thread and see what she thinks about it... maybe she will answer some of your issues right then and there...

someone said before that you should be upfront and adult about stuff with her (the fact that you haven't been shows that you don't see her as an equal - more like an animal that has to be tricked and caught) I totally agree with who said that... like they said - being upfront isn't macho it is adult AND it is more respectful...

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Go with your gut, give her a call and be honest.

Yeah but my gut is telling me to say good riddance to her. :lol:

My hormones are saying to call. I have always been told not to make choices based on those. :lol:

I hope she doesn't say anything that will make me hang up.

Thanks for the advice Penny,

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arrrggg! sorry just can't seem to drag myself away because you didn't get my point really... if you have this notion of 'us' and 'them' then you can't get equality. (I do have a notion of 'us' and 'them' myself but that is because I KNOW there isn't equality)

and half of my post was about women in our countries. The fact is that women aren't seen by society as equal... the backlash of feminism is that now men can get the best of both worlds and women still get second best... as in men get sexually liberated women but women get men who don't commit to relationships and who want them to change. So unless you have a holistic approach to feminism and equality then you are only asking women to be 'equal' for your own reasons. We can't just act more equal because worldwide it just isn't true - we just don't have equality.

we can't be seen as equal because we are still objectified on the largest of billboards, we still know by looking at other countries that one bad turn of government and we are the first to suffer (especially single mothers and women in highly religious areas - don't even get me started on that - I am sure that there are many religions governing the society of north America - well every religion has an idea about what women 'should be').

Feminism isn't about women wanting to be like men either ... it is about women wanting to be accepted as whatever we want to be - and any woman anywhere doesn't have that freedom now. I'm not talking jobs I AM talking dating world - even the woman you are trying it on with isn't being accepted by you because she has so-called typical feminine traits... IF she were to act more manly people would complain that she wasn't feminine enough...

look ... it sounds like you have an idea of what you want a woman to be and that instantly means that you just don't get it. Why should any woman have to live up to standards that they don't even know about in the first place (and that are unrealistic because they are made by an individual so wholly unconnected to them - I think I just quoted Jane Austen...)

also the fact that there is a post like this one means that you think you should be able to have a relationship with a woman - it isn't anything you said it is the action of writing about your trials and tribulations in the dating world - that is what tells me that you think you are owed a relationship - otherwise none of us would be here writing about it.

I am sorry man we started out so well but if you keep on with the delusion that you are 'for equality' without actually knowing anything about it and contradicting yourself in the process then maybe you SHOULD read a bit about it.

seriously I think it would really help you - if you want to support equality of women then you will have to get you some knowledge! hehe

every time you generalize about women you are offending me - in answer to that question.

SO if we are going to get on the right footing again (and so neither of us become as popular as a turd in a punch bowl) then you have to really think about how equal women are, how much more objectified we are in your own home town, your own feelings about how you WANT a woman to be - think about how that actually makes you not only negative about women but also unrealistic about people in general.

anyway...

who knows if you will take any of this in?! But I am sure that your primary problem in the dating world is your lack of knowledge ... maybe not just in this area ...

and seriously - show this woman you want to be with this WHOLE thread and see what she thinks about it... maybe she will answer some of your issues right then and there...

someone said before that you should be upfront and adult about stuff with her (the fact that you haven't been shows that you don't see her as an equal - more like an animal that has to be tricked and caught) I totally agree with who said that... like they said - being upfront isn't macho it is adult AND it is more respectful...

I am not going to get into the whole equality issue in other countries anymore. I am talking about the dating world in North America.

When i say i want equality in the dating world it means i want to see women paying for men, asking men out, making the first move,etc, etc. Do all the things that men do. I am not talking about jobs etc. Some of that stuff with never be equal unfortunately. I am talking about things that i think can be equal.

Women also want men to be a certain way. They have an idea about how they want a man to be. And they have standards that at man has to live up to. That is part of finding a mate. I am not the only one that thinks that.

How am i generalizing about women when i encounter it all the time???? How is my lack of success because of my lack of knowledge and not my looks? My lack of knowledge about women?

I wasn't upfront with her about finding out if she wanted to hook up with me. But she wasn't upfront with me either in whether or not she was interested. And that left me in the dark. I am not a mind reader. If she had just asked if we could exchange numbers or asked for mine then i wouldn't have had to wondert about anything. But now it seems she wants the guy to do that stuff and thatt's clashing with me not liking to do that stuff.

I want to get along with you to. Don't let my opinions piss you off. It's not life and death. My sex life is the only think hanging in the balance. :D

Edited by spats
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Hmm I don't think you read what I wrote properly then... Because I was talking about The dating world in North America ... I was talking about a general attitude in our society...

I think it seems like you are playing some sort of 'how do I catch a pretty woman' game...

But she doesn't just have to be pretty she has to meet these standards that you have set in your head (unfair because how is she supposed to know that and even if she does why should she have to cater to them?)... As for paying and stuff that is a very tiny grain of an issue when it comes to equality in dating... Just say "look I can't afford to pay for everything but I would like to spend time with you". I mean she is a HUMAN BEING you don't have to beat around the bush. maybe if you have such a particular idea of what you want you should just say "I am looking for a woman who will pay for me at dinner, make the first move... do all the things that men do..." (by the way being equal doesn't mean acting like men... but I have already gone over that - you will have to read my post properly)

and anyway have you ever thought that you are setting a standard about yourself? As in you might not match her standards either ... so maybe you should just leave each other alone... If she eventually wants to have kids and settle down and you are dead set against it then neither of you are doing each other a favor for even starting anything... I mean women HAVE to have time off after the birth of children (something I have gone through especially if they breastfeed because workplaces wont have women with babies on their boobs) and in that time they have to rely on the man in their lives to support them - it is just a fact and you are already freaking out about money on the first few dates!!!

I MEAN that is a feminist issue RIGHT THERE! Women still HAVE TO rely on men in probably the most fragile stages of their lives... and if the man resents the woman for 'trapping him in to fatherhood' then how does that woman get by without the heartache of unreliable government systems that have been set up wholly because some men couldn't be trusted to pay money for their child's wellbeing... not to mention the well being of the woman who is now unemployable for maybe up to 6 years... and people ACTUALLY complain about paying... it's like 'DUDE - YOU LEFT IT IN TOO LONG'

anyway my suggestion is to deal with ANY issues you have about love, marriage, children, money, all of those things BEFORE you even think about getting into a 'relationship'. And then warn the person you want to screw before you do - because too many people waste their times in dead end relationships because they just don't have the same outlook...

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Thanks Virginia. I think things should be equal. What is wrong with that? Isn't that what women have been saying they want. I am all for it. :D

That wasn't me; that was Eternal Light

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And Spats has his own unique concept of what is equal.

I applaud your diplomacy ... yes 'unique' is one way of putting it. I think I just see it as 'uninformed' ... hee hee

but you know I wouldn't mind informing him if he listened...

Equality you know it is a well documented subject!

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