tang991 Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Hey, As some of you may or may not remember, I've been building a guitar for a while now. I finally got the nut and bridge in the mail, but I can't find what the optimal "break angle" is at the head and tail end of the strings. ==Does anyone know what the perfect string angle is on a 25" scale solid-body e-guitar at both the head and bridge?== It is highly important that i get it right, so any help would be very greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I can't give you a specific number but I do know that with the shorter scale lengths, where the strings have less tension, a more pronounced break angle is supposed to help sustain. Ironically, danelectros which have 25" scale length don't have much of a break angle, but that's in part because of the simple construction methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tang991 Posted August 5, 2008 Author Share Posted August 5, 2008 thanks any more help anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 (edited) I'm assuming you didn't fabricate your own neck. Or did you? These points aren't that important in the building stage unless you go waaaay too far. For example, a typical Gibson peghead angle is 17 degrees, however Fenders are much less. They compensate with the use of string trees on the D,G,B and high E strings, and today, staggered tuners. Are you using a Tune-o-Matic type bridge with stop tailpiece or going the Fender route with a flush-mount bridge-tailpiece assembly? Obviously, if you're going the Fender route, the bridge question is moot, but with the stop tailpiece, you can adjust the studs. 17 degrees or so I suppose, however string-breakage notwithstanding, the real difference is your preference in string tension. Dialing down the tailpiece will increase it, while some people go so far as to wrap the strings OVER the tailpiece for easier bending. Jimmy Page used to do that. But again, with the wide variety of string gauges available these days, that's again kind of moot. I'd be happy to advise further, but I'd need more details of your setup. *edit to add* I don't even know if we're talking about an acoustic or an electric guitar. Solid or hollowbody? Details! Edited August 5, 2008 by Evster2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tang991 Posted August 6, 2008 Author Share Posted August 6, 2008 (edited) It's a Solidbody Electric, 25" scale, Bigsby B5 tailpiece, Bigsby rocker bridge, and yeah: i'm making and fretting the neck/fretboard myself. It's a 3-piece through body neck made of a Bubinga center and Walnut on the outside w/ a Bird's Eye Maple fretboard. All I know about the break angle back at the bridge end is that if it's too shallow the strings'll buzz and i'll lose sustain. I've chosen the peghead angle to be 15 degress. I'm mainly asking about the bridge end's optimal angle (like from the bridge to the front roller bar on the Bigsby that the strings go underneath), but any suggestions at all are appreciated. Thanks for the help so far Ev . Edited August 6, 2008 by tang991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 (edited) The important question missing here is: "what break angle are you having between the body & neck?" Until we know that... (You said through neck which suggests a flat joint, but that's not necessarily the case, so the question needs asking.) Edited August 7, 2008 by huw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 ^^An excellent point HUW! Particularly as the Bigsby B5 mounts flush to the body and can't be raised and lowered in the manner of a stop tailpiece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tang991 Posted August 12, 2008 Author Share Posted August 12, 2008 hmm. didn't even think of neck angle. the neck is flat. perfectly in line w/ the body. so i guess a break angle of 0 degrees. to be quite honest, i didn't even know that entire necks ever were angled, except on archtops and "traditional" stringed instruments i.e. violincello, violin, double bass, viola, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 (edited) If your peghead is flush with the fretboard you'll have string tension problems at the nut. The strings will just buzz away in the nut slots. If you've already fabricated the neck, you may want to plane down the peghead to provide an angle. There must be a breakaway at the nut. That's why Fenders have string trees. They create a breakaway angle by forcing the strings down. *edit to add* Oh, at the body. My mistake. Didn't read the post clearly. Sorry! So, what is the space between the fretboard and the body? If you've gone truly flush, you may need to route and recess the bridge. Edited August 12, 2008 by Evster2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 ...to be quite honest, i didn't even know that entire necks ever were angled, except on archtops and "traditional" stringed instruments i.e. violincello, violin, double bass, viola, etc. Take a good look at a Les Paul sometime. They originally came with a neck/body pitch of about 4 degrees, which increased to about 5 degrees over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tang991 Posted August 12, 2008 Author Share Posted August 12, 2008 hmm. i guess you're right, HUW, just such a subtle thing that i never noticed it. as for the neck to body thing... The neck itsself is completely flush. as for the fretboard, i don't have it on the neck yet, still sanding it down to the proper radius, which will only take me about another hour's worth of sanding. would you guys recommend a neck-to-body angle? I could sand the fretboard to provide an angle. otherwise, yeah. i'll have to rout a hole for the bridge and tailpiece. by the way... how does the standard bigsby "rocker" bridge stay on the body? was it glued on? the instructions give no direction and there are no screwholes in the bridge, just the actual tailpiece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 ... how does the standard bigsby "rocker" bridge stay on the body? was it glued on? the instructions give no direction and there are no screwholes in the bridge, just the actual tailpiece. Actually, I think it was just the string pressure keeping it in place. Them were the days when a "floating bridge" really was... (...but you can use glue) Anyway - I finally remembered that the B5 is the "short" Bigsby - ie it doesn't mount from the strap button. Ching! Dan Earlwine talks about fitting that on to a Les Paul in one of his books. I checked it out, and there are two things that might help you. First, he mounted it way back, only an inch from the edge of the body, so the break angle was reduced a fair bit. Second, & this is the clever part, because the bridge is seperate from the tailpiece assembly you can actually string it up over the front roller bar, instead of under it, & it will still function perfectly. The break angle is reduced a lot by doing this, so you have a fair amount of adjustability even with the Bigsby. The more I think about it, the more I think that the "optimum" break angle is just what will feel righ to you, but I would guess something like 10 degrees might be a place to start experimenting from (YMMV). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tang991 Posted August 16, 2008 Author Share Posted August 16, 2008 Thanks HUW! Dan Erlewine certainly is the man when it comes to guitar repair/construction. I just don't have money to shell out on his books, otherwise i certainly would do so. It's good to know that i have a lot of "play room" with the type of bridge/tailpiece combination that i'm using. i think i'll have the tailpiece angle just match the peghead angle, which will be 14 degrees. A little bit of basic physics tells me that force applied to one end cannot exceed the force applied by the other end. So if 10 degrees gives me X amount of pressure on the strings, 14 degrees can still only give me X. Thanks for all of your help guys. Cya around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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