The Ossetian Conflic

[BIGDAN]

Hello Big Dan, and what countries may I ask do you think are OK??

Hi 'srplane'

In what way?

Politicaly, none.

As people, All.

[wanna be drummer]

Hi 'srplane'

In what way?

Politicaly, none.

As people, All.

Why...?

[BIGDAN]

Why...?

Because I hate all governments, and I love all people.

[Medhb]

Because I hate all governments, and I love all people.

So is it fair to say you are anarchist?

[eternal light]

Hi 'eternal light'

And when did Americia loose the moral highground, was it in 1968 during the Vietnam war when your forces massacred 347 unarmed civilians at My Lai.

Danny, it is Russia that attacked civilians in Georgia this month, not the United States.

By the way, I was not in command of our forces in 1968, I was in school and living at home with my parents. But does this mean that because the United States was involved in the My Lai massacre, the Russians should go ahead and mistreat civilians? And if I disapproved of the My Lai massacre, why do you think I should approve of Russian soldiers attacking civilians and seizing their property?

I'm only supposed to criticize the United States and ignore Russia's mistreatment of people? And on Robert Plant's birthday?

updated 3:52 p.m. PT, Wed., Aug. 20, 2008

SACHKHERE, Georgia - Russian forces dug trenches and built sentry posts deep inside Georgia on Wednesday, showing few signs they would pull back later this week as promised.

Georgian soldiers suggested the Russians were trying to provoke them and justify a resumption of the conflict, which over five days pounded the infrastructure of the small former Soviet republic and the morale of its troops.

In the Georgian capital of Tbilisi, President Mikhail Saakashvili told The Associated Press that Russia was thinning out its presence in some of the towns it occupies but was seizing other strategic spots.

"What we're seeing now is a clear regrouping and also, again, some kind of deception campaign, saying, 'Look, we're moving out,'" Saakashvili said.

Few signs of troop movement

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has pledged his forces would retreat by Friday to South Ossetia, the breakaway Georgian province at the heart of the war, and a surrounding security cordon. But there have been few signs of movement other than the departure of a small contingent of Russian soldiers from Gori, a strategically located city in central Georgia.

On Wednesday, much of Georgia remained tense as Russian troops built a guard post out of timber on a hill outside Igoeti, about 30 miles from Tbilisi, and a large Russian convoy rolled near the western city of Senaki.

Russian soldiers also set up what appeared to be semi-permanent camps in at least three places in western Georgia near the Black Sea port of Poti, with dozens of men digging in by armored personnel carriers and trucks.

The warfare in a nation straining to escape Moscow's influence has sent tensions between Moscow and the West to some of their highest levels since the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1991.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26306440/

Russia's military is really taking advantage of this situation, and not necessarily for the well-being of civilians.

[BIGDAN]

So is it fair to say you are anarchist?

Hi 'Medhb'

Not in the least, I think that we all need guidance and good government, but we dont seem to be getting either.

I like the way that Islam was concieved and the Red Indian way, you know rule by elders and truly Holy men who have the welfare of the people at heart. All people want to do now is get in to politics for power and wealth not for the good they can do.

But dont ask me to run for office, I'm far too busy posting on here.

If you want to look for good guidance, look to the teachings of Jesus, Mohamed, Buddha or Gandhi and you wont go far wrong. Forget Lenin, Stalin, Mao or Gadaffi, they will lead you astray.

Or you could do what I have done, completely flipped and moved away to live with the Elves, or emerse yourself in Zeppelins music.

Be Lucky, Danny

[wanna be drummer]

Buddha, Gandhi, Jesus = yes

Mohammed = no

And no, I'm not posting that just because of 9/11 or Islamic Fundamentalism today before anybody says anything

I just do not care for what that man did with his life or what his teachings did to many of his people. Those three, however, are all extremely similar and I 100% agree

[Medhb]

Hi 'Medhb'

Not in the least, I think that we all need guidance and good government, but we dont seem to be getting either.

I like the way that Islam was concieved and the Red Indian way, you know rule by elders and truly Holy men who have the welfare of the people at heart. All people want to do now is get in to politics for power and wealth not for the good they can do.

But dont ask me to run for office, I'm far too busy posting on here.

If you want to look for good guidance, look to the teachings of Jesus, Mohamed, Buddha or Gandhi and you wont go far wrong. Forget Lenin, Stalin, Mao or Gadaffi, they will lead you astray.

Or you could do what I have done, completely flipped and moved away to live with the Elves, or emerse yourself in Zeppelins music.

Be Lucky, Danny

Ahhh, thanks Danny I'm an avid Yogini so I'm pretty comfortable with my philisophical approach to life. I also appreciate the Red Indian way and practice an Earth based religion myself. However, politics and religion should remain separate but I surely wish the leaders of the world could find different motives and better uses of power.

Peace

[BIGDAN]

Buddha, Gandhi, Jesus = yes

Mohammed = no

And no, I'm not posting that just because of 9/11 or Islamic Fundamentalism today before anybody says anything

I just do not care for what that man did with his life or what his teachings did to many of his people. Those three, however, are all extremely similar and I 100% agree

3 out of 4 aint bad though.

Look at it this way, Jesus's teachings were good, but the Christians dont live by them.

Mohammed is the same, Islam is a good religion, but many Muslims dont live by the teachings.

If you read the account of Jesus's teachings he says to follow the old testament not to create a new religion, and the Koran is the old testament, the new testament and then a little bit more, it's all good teaching. I just dont like the way religion is run nowadays so I keep to myself and follow my own way. It's easy, follow what you know is right, "in the light you will see the road"

Hope that helps, Regards, Danny

[BIGDAN]

Ahhh, thanks Danny I'm an avid Yogini so I'm pretty comfortable with my philisophical approach to life. I also appreciate the Red Indian way and practice an Earth based religion myself. However, politics and religion should remain separate but I surely wish the leaders of the world could find different motives and better uses of power.

Peace

Pardon me for being a complete idiot, I didn't even think you were a woman, now you can all have a great laugh on me.

"Yogini" I have never heard of this before, so I need to do some research, or can you help me here?

Look I dont really hate anyone, but I suppose the people in office could and should do a better job than they do, but it must be hard as there are so many people with low moral values and they are easily corrupted. And if you take the moral highground as a politician you either get discredited or killed, so you cant win either way. But at a lower level, like the tribe, I think you can have good people and good government and good religion.

I'll just wait for "Star Trek" to come to life and the federation will sort out everything, oh I forgot about the Klingons, Cardassians and Romulans, it never changes, so back to the Elves I think.

Regards, Danny

[Medhb]

Pardon me for being a complete idiot, I didn't even think you were a woman, now you can all have a great laugh on me.

"Yogini" I have never heard of this before, so I need to do some research, or can you help me here?

Look I dont really hate anyone, but I suppose the people in office could and should do a better job than they do, but it must be hard as there are so many people with low moral values and they are easily corrupted. And if you take the moral highground as a politician you either get discredited or killed, so you cant win either way. But at a lower level, like the tribe, I think you can have good people and good government and good religion.

I'll just wait for "Star Trek" to come to life and the federation will sort out everything, oh I forgot about the Klingons, Cardassians and Romulans, it never changes, so back to the Elves I think.

Regards, Danny

Ahahahaha! I'll take that as a compliment. A yogini is simply a female yoga practitioner, a yogi is a male practictioner.

I know, I pray every night for peace on earth and good will to all mankind. All I can do on a personal level is try to share light, make people smile, make people feel good about themselves, laugh and enjoy!

I don't think the perfect government has been created yet and I dont' know if it ever will but I do think Democracy has a lot of advantages over some of the other choices. And polititians have to play 'the game' to get things done...I'm sure they all go in there fresh and excited and come out jaded and hardened....and a lot of them much richer. Not much I can do about it...I'll have 3 or 4 choices to vote for in November....we'll see....

[zepyep]

Hi all,

Look at it this way, Jesus's teachings were good, but the Christians dont live by them.

Mohammed is the same, Islam is a good religion, but many Muslims dont live by the

teachings.

If you read the account of Jesus's teachings he says to follow the old testament not to create a new religion, and the Koran is the old testament, the new testament and then a little bit more, it's all good teaching. I just dont like the way religion is run nowadays so I keep to myself and follow my own way. It's easy, follow what you know is right, "in the light you will see the road"Hope that helps, Regards, Danny

So what does this,or Vietnam have to do with the Ossetian confict?

KB--->

[BIGDAN]

Ahahahaha! I'll take that as a compliment. A yogini is simply a female yoga practitioner, a yogi is a male practictioner.

I know, I pray every night for peace on earth and good will to all mankind. All I can do on a personal level is try to share light, make people smile, make people feel good about themselves, laugh and enjoy!

I don't think the perfect government has been created yet and I dont' know if it ever will but I do think Democracy has a lot of advantages over some of the other choices. And polititians have to play 'the game' to get things done...I'm sure they all go in there fresh and excited and come out jaded and hardened....and a lot of them much richer. Not much I can do about it...I'll have 3 or 4 choices to vote for in November....we'll see....

And theres me thinking you were practicing some kind of sexual pervertion.

As for politics, I abstain totaly and if anyone comes around looking for my vote I bore the hell out of them with all my questions about how they never fulfill their manifesto's and shit like that. Even the Jehovah's refuse to knock on my door anymore, I tried to convert the last one to be a Buddhist. Ha Ha. Democracy does not exist in our world, but what we have, we have. It will do for now, I'de rather be where I am now than most other places in the world, even with all of it's unpleasantries.

Thanks for listening, Regards, Danny

PS. Sorry, I didn't know Bears practiced yoga.

[Medhb]

And theres me thinking you were practicing some kind of sexual pervertion.

As for politics, I abstain totaly and if anyone comes around looking for my vote I bore the hell out of them with all my questions about how they never fulfill their manifesto's and shit like that. Even the Jehovah's refuse to knock on my door anymore, I tried to convert the last one to be a Buddhist. Ha Ha. Democracy does not exist in our world, but what we have, we have. It will do for now, I'de rather be where I am now than most other places in the world, even with all of it's unpleasantries.

Thanks for listening, Regards, Danny

PS. Sorry, I didn't know Bears practiced yoga.

All animals practice yoga...now you know!

[BIGDAN]

Look at it this way, Jesus's teachings were good, but the Christians dont live by them.

QUOTE

The Christains?You mean all of them?Some?A few million? huh.gif I mean all christians, I have never met a christian who practiced what Jesus preached.

Mohammed is the same, Islam is a good religion, but many Muslims dont live by the

teachings.

QUOTE

Now it's many? Yes its many, many Muslims do live by the teachings of the Koran, sorry I dont know how many but it is quite a lot, many tens of millions by the last count

If you read the account of Jesus's teachings he says to follow the old testament not to create a new religion, and the Koran is the old testament, the new testament and then a little bit more, it's all good teaching. I just dont like the way religion is run nowadays so I keep to myself and follow my own way. It's easy, follow what you know is right, "in the light you will see the road"Hope that helps, Regards, Danny

So what does this,or Vietnam have to do with the Ossetian confict?

KB--->

[eternal light]

So what does this,or Vietnam have to do with the Ossetian confict?

Russia was involved in North Vietnam.

wiki.Why_and_how_did_Russia_help_the_North_Vietnamese_during_the_Vietnam_War?

MSNBC News Services

updated 1 hour, 25 minutes ago

POTI, Georgia - Russian forces blocked the only land entrance to Georgia's main port city on Thursday, a day before Russia promised to complete a troop pullout from its ex-Soviet neighbor.

Armored personnel carriers and troop trucks blocked the bridge to the Black Sea port city of Poti, and Russian forces excavated trenches and set up mortars facing the city. Another group of APCs and trucks were positioned in a nearby wooded area.

Although Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has promised that his forces would pull back by Friday, Russian troops appear to be digging in, raising concern about whether Moscow is aiming for a lengthy occupation of its small, pro-Western neighbor.

'Making fun of the world'

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili told The Associated Press that Russia was thinning out its presence in some occupied towns but was seizing other strategic spots. He called the Russian moves "some kind of deception game."

"(The Russians) are making fun of the world," he declared.

Nonetheless, a top Russian general said troops were moving out in accordance with an EU-sponsored cease-fire.

"The pullback of Russian forces is taking place at such a tempo that by the end of August 22 they will be in the zones of responsibility of Russian peacekeepers," Col.-Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, the deputy head of the general staff, said at a briefing.

The truce says both Russian and Georgian forces must move back to positions they held before fighting broke out Aug. 7 in Georgia's separatist republic of South Ossetia, which has close ties to Russia. The agreement also says Russian forces can work in a so-called "security zone" that extends more than four miles into Georgia from South Ossetia.

Poti is at least 95 miles west of the nearest point in South Ossetia.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26329053/

[BIGDAN]

All animals practice yoga...now you know!

Dont mean to be impolite 'Medhb', but we are getting in to trouble with KB by keep replying to each other, we are off topic most of the time. Please open another topic and dont use this one, Please.

Regards, Danny

Sorry KB

[I have got a horsey]

Thank you for understanding

You're welcome!

A lot of people who live in Western countries don't really understand too well Russian people and how they work. Russian people are very good at living a 'double' life, one life that the public sees, and another life that is very private and closely guarded. Westerners assume that Russians don't know what's going on, but from my experience they know exactly what's happening but they don't really tell anybody.

[sweetangel578]

There is a big difference between arms and nuclear reactors....I can't justify my governments decision - I would guess for defense, can you justify yours?

edited for clairity

I guess in the end it's always about strategical decisions and money...

[eternal light]

950,000 dead 1954-5 (Khrushchev)

3.1 million dead 1956-60 (Khrushchev)

1.6 million dead 1961-70 (Khrushchev, Brezhnev)

780,000 dead 1970-82 (Brezhnev)

200,000 dead 1983-7 (Andropov, Chernenko, Gorbachev)

Nureyev's life was truly a departure from those bleak moments.

When the company went to Paris in 1961 for its first foreign tour, Rudolf could hardly be left behind but a close watch was kept on him.

Still he did not conform. Instead of returning obediently to the hotel each night in the coaches provided, he went out with French dancers and other locals. One or two other Kirov dancers did likewise but Nureyev was the one who caused most alarm to the political agents running the tour.

When everyone arrived at the airport to move on for performances in London he was instead given a ticket to Moscow and told he was needed for a gala.

"I want to stay and to be free..."

Disbelieving assurances that he would rejoin the company in London, he was sure he would never again be allowed out of Russia and would face relegation back home.

He decided to seek asylum in the west and managed to get word to friends who had come to see him off. They told the French police, who explained that Nureyev must personally approach them; he did this and was granted permission to stay in France. Russian officials thereafter did all they could to disparage the "defector", and in absence he was sentenced to prison. For many years all his travelling had to be done on temporary documents but eventually he was given Austrian citizenship.

http://www.nureyev.org/

For ballet, Socialist Realism meant several things. First, choreography had to have a story about heroic workers, innocent women, and courageous men. Second, "formalism" was forbidden. This meant no abstract dances structured by musical concerns, and no allegorical or symbolic dances that "disguised" pure movement in "meaning." These precepts were fully articulated in a diatribe published in 1936 in Pravda titled "Ballet Falsehood." The ostensible purpose of the article was to censor the ballet Bright Stream, one of Lopukhov's experiments in bringing classical vocabulary to bear on contemporary issues. With a score by Dmitri Shostakovich, Bright Stream was a purportedly "joyous" celebration of life on a Cossack collective farm. But Pravda accused Lopukhov of portraying real Soviet people as ballet "dolls" and "tinsel peasants" from a "pre-revolutionary candy box."

Shostakovich was also censored, but this was nothing new. Stalin had stunned Moscow the month before when he angrily walked out of a performance of Shostakovich's popularly acclaimed opera Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk. Pravda dutifully published a scorching denunciation of "formalism," called "Muddle Instead of Music," which became the de facto manifesto of Socialist Realism applied to music. "Ballet Fraud" was an addendum. Lopukhov had curated the classics, but he was also deeply interested in pure movement, gymnastics, and folk dance idioms. For this he lost his job. Stalin's point was plain: rid ballet of all experimentation. Restrict it to uplifting stories that do not refer to any specific contemporary issue, however "Soviet." The narrative must be clear. Loose steps unattached to the drama would be deemed subversive.

http://www.yale.edu/annals/Reviews/review_...ic_11.02.01.htm

The word ballet comes from the word ballare, which in Latin translates to the verb “to dance.” Naturally, the earliest originators of ballet were those who danced in Renaissance Italy. Elaborate performances developed in the Italian courts from the time of the mid-1400s to the mid-1500s.

http://people.smu.edu/akarigan/court%20ballet.html

[Uncle Bill]

So what other civil liberties are we deprived of apart from free press? I personally don't feel deprived of anything.

You are part of a very small minority.

Definition from wiki:

Civil liberties are freedoms that protect the individual from the government. Civil liberties set limits for government so that it cannot abuse its power and interfere with the lives of its citizens.

source

[BIGDAN]

Hello again Big Dan. Since the beginning of time man has been killing man to gain territory. You can go all the way back to the Cavemen. Sad, but true. Now lets fast forward a few million years. Yes, it still goes on. Lets talk about modern history since World War II. For you to say that the U.S.A. and Great Britan are as bad as the Soviets is like comparing a honey bee to a killer bee. America and Great Britan have never been accused of genocide.

950,000 dead 1954-5 (Khrushchev)

3.1 million dead 1956-60 (Khrushchev)

1.6 million dead 1961-70 (Khrushchev, Brezhnev)

780,000 dead 1970-82 (Brezhnev)

200,000 dead 1983-7 (Andropov, Chernenko, Gorbachev)

Yes, this was taken from the same web site that I posted earlier. You can do a google search on any one of these thugs and find these statistics all over the web.

Your constant comparing of the U.S. and Great Britan to Countries and Leaders that in "Recent History" have committed genocide gets very old, makes no since. I agree, no Goverment is any where near perfect but untill you find your Utopia and we can all join...........get real.

Get real, get fucking real, you say that to me, go fucking look up or google your self just how many innocent people the Americans have killed, then post back to me.

And dont treat me like an idiot, and dont move the goal posts, Americia and GB have commited acts of genocide, maybe not as recent as Russia but nontheless they have still done it. Since ancient times we have been a barbarous people. We have commited great acts of genocide the world over, just as you have. Fact.

Are you forgetting what you did to the Red Indians, the Koreans, the Vietnamese, the Filopinos, the Iraqis, the Japanese. Yes, you dont like to admit to that do you? You even kill your own students, and presidents, and even the fucking Buffalo you had to destroy. Your cops are forever killing your citizens and your citizens are killing each other and your fucking TV and Films have driven our kids to behave like your fucking retarded scum sucking kids as well. Now you have made me angry, and I'm a pacifist and your making even me want to go to war with you. The whole fucking world hates you and you cant even see it. You are loathed, but I still love you Americia. So stop replying to my posts as you are going off topic and KB will get on my back for replying too.

Kind Regards, Danny

PS. Please wake up and smell the coffee, and for KB, I have "Georgia on my mind" long live the Confederacy.

[wanna be drummer]

3 out of 4 aint bad though.

Look at it this way, Jesus's teachings were good, but the Christians dont live by them.

Mohammed is the same, Islam is a good religion, but many Muslims dont live by the teachings.

If you read the account of Jesus's teachings he says to follow the old testament not to create a new religion, and the Koran is the old testament, the new testament and then a little bit more, it's all good teaching. I just dont like the way religion is run nowadays so I keep to myself and follow my own way. It's easy, follow what you know is right, "in the light you will see the road"

Hope that helps, Regards, Danny

Jesus did say to follow the koran, however his actions contradict the Old testament multiple times. For example, the Koran tells us (essentially) "an eye for an eye" a "tooth for a tooth" whereas Jesus said to "Turn the other cheek"

Weird, but hey, I don't make the rules

[BIGDAN]

Jesus did say to follow the koran, however his actions contradict the Old testament multiple times. For example, the Koran tells us (essentially) "an eye for an eye" a "tooth for a tooth" whereas Jesus said to "Turn the other cheek"

Weird, but hey, I don't make the rules

Firstly Jesus was long dead before the Koran was written, over 6 hundred years in fact, I think you mean the Old Testament.

Secondly, Jesus wrote nothing down, others did that years later, so there is much conjecture and contradiction in the New Testament, I only ment you to read it as a guide, we all know right from wrong so we can all follow our own path in life.

If you follow good then you are doing Gods work, if you follow the evil ways then you are folling the Devil, you will know what path you are on even if you wont admit it. When we die our last words and thoughts are for our mothers and to ask for Gods forgiveness. Why would you ask for forgiveness if you have lived a good life?

"Weird, but hey, I don't make the rules" then dont break them.

Regards, Danny

[wanna be drummer]

Firstly Jesus was long dead before the Koran was written, over 6 hundred years in fact, I think you mean the Old Testament.

Yeah, I know. I meant the Torah. I saw Koran in your post and I guess it just flicked the switch or something

Secondly, Jesus wrote nothing down, others did that years later, so there is much conjecture and contradiction in the New Testament, I only ment you to read it as a guide, we all know right from wrong so we can all follow our own path in life.

Agreed

If you follow good then you are doing Gods work, if you follow the evil ways then you are folling the Devil, you will know what path you are on even if you wont admit it. When we die our last words and thoughts are for our mothers and to ask for Gods forgiveness. Why would you ask for forgiveness if you have lived a good life?

"Weird, but hey, I don't make the rules" then dont break them.

I don't. Just saying that it's fairly odd he would say both (or so I believe)