Jump to content

The Ossetian Conflic


Recommended Posts

Really wise! Good for you ;) but be patient and don't make any conclusions till each piece of the puzzle is perfectly fixed.

Yes, it's too easy to be wrong.

For her there is no difference in religion anymore when people are crossing the first commandment, thou shalt not kill.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 382
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

This strikes me as complete Western elitist propaganda spew. Note that they are telling us that Russians are bombing the Ossetians, and the Ossetians are fleeing into Russia.

This looks like another case of "western" covert destabilization.

Your exactly right. It's not a coincidence that this all began on the opening day of the olympics. What is the message trying to be sent?

Link to post
Share on other sites
I see your point of view. I do respect your opinion, you have a right for it, that's for sure. I think you should respect us too. I'm talking about people, not our government - that's another stuff.

I am perfectly capable of respecting and admiring the Russian people. They have been through much more adversity than any American. But at the same time we must recognize that it is your government which continues to bully and intimidate former Soviet nations and provinces seeking independence. Your government is not exactly very democratic.... and that is something that we in the West will always have concern about.

For my part I admire the brashness and competative nature of the Russian people. In a philosophical sense, it was becuase of the threat by the Soviet regime, that in part forced America to become a world power. Russia brought balance to global politics, providing a clear advisary for America and Western Europe to contend with. I'm sure that without that 'balance' -- America and the West would have become distracted and lazy, just as we have since the break up of the Soviet Union.

If we say something, we have a right for it as well as you do. Personally I'm sure when I say something, and if I say something it is based on something, you know? I would never support my government if it was the agressor.

Peace!

Sometimes agression is warranted when the threat is sufficient. But in this case I honestly believe that Russia could have caused Georgia to change their tactics had Russia put stonger diplomatic pressure on the situation. Russia being a permanent member of the U.N. security council, a major military and economic power with standing in the G8 and with Europe--- could have forced a change without sending in troops. Do you really think that NATO and especially the United States would have ignored a possible use of military force by Russia without possibly intervening diplomaticaly and putting pressure on Georgia? Unfortunatly Russia did not present that option first; which should make you question Russia's motivation for the military action .. (oil maybe?). I believe it was to take control of the territory that has been in question by force. Which to me explains why Russia avoided a diplomatic solution. They might not have gotten everything they wanted with a negotiated settlement. This way Russia gets everthing they want and there isn't a damn thing anyone else can do about.

See my point?

Link to post
Share on other sites
The main part of anything true remains the same if it is true.

"It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." ~ Giordano Bruno

Link to post
Share on other sites

And on a lighter note, Condi Rice commented.

BRUSSELS, Belgium - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Monday that NATO will not allow Russia to destabilize Georgia, intimidate other pro-Western governments in the former Soviet bloc or re-establish an Iron Curtain across Europe.

Video

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26266240/

And Russian President Dmitry Medvedev added his comments.

Medvedev's trip to the North Ossetian capital traced the footsteps of his predecessor, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, who cut short his appearance at the opening ceremonies for the Olympic Games in Beijing to fly to Vladikavkaz to visit field hospitals and meet with refugees who had fled the conflict.

"In Tskhinvali, you didn't think about yourself and, in fulfilling your soldierly duty, well understood that you were essentially the last hope for defenseless people," Medvedev told 58th Army personnel and peacekeepers, in comments released by the Kremlin.

"I am convinced that such a well-implemented, effective field operation, which was of a peacekeeping nature, will become one of the glorious pages in the history of the armed forces," he said, Interfax reported.

He said an additional 40 billion rubles ($1.6 billion) had been earmarked to improve military living standards.

"I'm not promising a revolution within one or two years, but we'll solve this task once and for all," Medvedev said.

******************************************************************************

Putin also told the Presidium that Russia was ready to help South Ossetia form a new government in a further indication that Moscow intends to play a leading role in South Ossetia.

********************************************************************

Medvedev's comments in Vladikavkaz came on the heels of more tough talk about the war and its conduct.

Speaking to World War II veterans in Kursk, he vowed to protect Russian citizens and punish those who have done them harm.

"If anyone thinks that they can kill our citizens, kill our soldiers and officers, who are peacekeepers, and escape unpunished, we will never allow this," Medvedev said. "If anyone tries this again, we will deliver a crushing response."

He also said the West had to respect Russian power and denied that his country was occupying South Ossetia.

"We do not want a deterioration of international relations; we want to be respected. We want our people, our values to be respected," he said. "We have always been a peace-loving state. There is practically not a single occasion in the history of the Russian or Soviet state where we initiated military actions."

Representatives of the foreign press, meanwhile, were barred from attending any events during Medvedev's trip. Members of the Russian press, however, were loaded onto a bus chartered by the Defense Ministry to meet the president at the airport. Access to the zone of conflict and to government officials has been sharply curtailed for the foreign press in recent weeks, making accurate coverage of what is going on inside South Ossetia extremely difficult.

Standing outside the Hotel Vladikavkaz as Russian reporters streamed into the press bus, a producer for NBC News in Moscow asked Defense Ministry spokesman Andrei Klyuchnikov if he knew how bad barring the Western press from such a significant news event looked.

Klyuchnikov simply shrugged.

"Yes," he said, the door to the bus closing in front of him. "I know."

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/600/42/369927.htm

But we hear about it anyway.

Edited by eternal light
Link to post
Share on other sites

from eternals link:

Vague on penalties

U.S. officials have been vague about what punitive actions — both immediate and long-term — the U.S. or the international community might take for Russia’s intervention in Georgia.

“There is no need to rush into everything,” Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Sunday. “We don’t want to do it unilaterally.”

While U.S. officials say Russia can’t get away with invading its neighbor, the White House doesn’t want to damage existing relations with Russia or discourage its government from further integrating itself into global economic and political institutions.

Sounds to me like the plan is to make a lot of noise and thats about it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sunday, 17 August 2008

by Chris Floyd

First Georgia, now Poland. The Bush Administration announced Thursday that American soldiers will begin manning missile sites in Poland — part of an agreement that surpasses even the NATO treaty in binding Washington to an armed response to any attack on Polish soil.

Spokesminions for President George Butt-Thumper said the installation of the missile base is designed to protect Poland from an intercontinental missile attack from Iran. (The perfidious Persians' long-standing plans to conquer Poland are well-known, of course.) The minions say that the missiles and troops are not at all intended as a threat to Russia, which is being slowly encircled by NATO bases and American missiles — despite solemn promises from Washington to refrain from, er, encircling Russia with NATO bases and American missiles.

But while Butt-Thumper was playing coy about the latest interjection of American cannon fodder into the now-roiling region, the Poles were admirably frank: they wanted a signed, ironclad deal that would force Americans to fight for them — unlike the hapless Georgian leader Mikhail Saakashvili, who depended on a nod and a wink from militarist factions along the Potomac (apparently John McCain and his neocon crowd) when launching his own sneak attack on South Ossetia.

As we all know, Misha was left up Saakashvili Creek without a paddle when the U.S. cavalry failed to ride to his rescue as expected. (Can there be any other explanation as to why he would launch his tiny military on a reckless adventure that was certain to provoke a massive Russian response? Obviously he thought Uncle Butt-Thumper would back him up.)

But there was none of that boneheaded shilly-shally for the Poles. They took advantage of the Bush Regime's panicky anxiety to look big and tough in front of the Russians and quickly sealed the missile base deal, wringing concessions that Washington had been resisting for 18 months.

http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/content/view/4639/81/

Edited by eternal light
Link to post
Share on other sites
I am perfectly capable of respecting and admiring the Russian people. They have been through much more adversity than any American. But at the same time we must recognize that it is your government which continues to bully and intimidate former Soviet nations and provinces seeking independence. Your government is not exactly very democratic.... and that is something that we in the West will always have concern about.

For my part I admire the brashness and competative nature of the Russian people. In a philosophical sense, it was becuase of the threat by the Soviet regime, that in part forced America to become a world power. Russia brought balance to global politics, providing a clear advisary for America and Western Europe to contend with. I'm sure that without that 'balance' -- America and the West would have become distracted and lazy, just as we have since the break up of the Soviet Union.

Sometimes agression is warranted when the threat is sufficient. But in this case I honestly believe that Russia could have caused Georgia to change their tactics had Russia put stonger diplomatic pressure on the situation. Russia being a permanent member of the U.N. security council, a major military and economic power with standing in the G8 and with Europe--- could have forced a change without sending in troops. Do you really think that NATO and especially the United States would have ignored a possible use of military force by Russia without possibly intervening diplomaticaly and putting pressure on Georgia? Unfortunatly Russia did not present that option first; which should make you question Russia's motivation for the military action .. (oil maybe?). I believe it was to take control of the territory that has been in question by force. Which to me explains why Russia avoided a diplomatic solution. They might not have gotten everything they wanted with a negotiated settlement. This way Russia gets everthing they want and there isn't a damn thing anyone else can do about.

See my point?

I do see your point, it's perfectly clear. You see, Russians can't deny and ignore the fact that our country is not democratic yet. There's still a great room for improvement in this sphere. I do agree with you here.

But speaking about the conflict (BTW it is more than a simple conflict now), as far as we here in Russia know, the USA didn't expect us to interfere in the war. They thought we would just step aside and let them do everything they want. The Pesident of the USA said "Hey, come on, don't fight, nobody needs the war", but we're not the agressor, all we wanted to do is to help poor Ossetians, cuz there were already 2000 dead people. I know you have another information. I know you do, as well as all people in Europe and in the USA do.

What are we talking about, if you simply have different sources of information. It's not the matter of somebody's opinion, it's the matter of different facts - you have a couple of facts, me too, but they are completely different, let's even say oppisite.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I do see your point, it's perfectly clear. You see, Russians can't deny and ignore the fact that our country is not democratic yet. There's still a great room for improvement in this sphere. I do agree with you here.

But speaking about the conflict (BTW it is more than a simple conflict now), as far as we here in Russia know, the USA didn't expect us to interfere in the war. They thought we would just step aside and let them do everything they want. The Pesident of the USA said "Hey, come on, don't fight, nobody needs the war", but we're not the agressor, all we wanted to do is to help poor Ossetians, cuz there were already 2000 dead people. I know you have another information. I know you do, as well as all people in Europe and in the USA do.

What are we talking about, if you simply have different sources of information. It's not the matter of somebody's opinion, it's the matter of different facts - you have a couple of facts, me too, but they are completely different, let's even say oppisite.

The 2000 reported deaths has been disputed by more than one human rights watch organizations. It appears to be nothing more than Russian propaganda.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wo...0,3381598.story

gazprom_tank.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, mine are from a variety of news sources from around the world. While yours are mainly from the Russian government.

Dear, please pay attention to the fact that I do know English. Well, my English is not that perfect but I am able to read in English so don't think that I get information only from my government writen or said in Russian.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I do see your point, it's perfectly clear. You see, Russians can't deny and ignore the fact that our country is not democratic yet. There's still a great room for improvement in this sphere. I do agree with you here.

But speaking about the conflict (BTW it is more than a simple conflict now), as far as we here in Russia know, the USA didn't expect us to interfere in the war. They thought we would just step aside and let them do everything they want. The Pesident of the USA said "Hey, come on, don't fight, nobody needs the war", but we're not the agressor, all we wanted to do is to help poor Ossetians, cuz there were already 2000 dead people. I know you have another information. I know you do, as well as all people in Europe and in the USA do.

What are we talking about, if you simply have different sources of information. It's not the matter of somebody's opinion, it's the matter of different facts - you have a couple of facts, me too, but they are completely different, let's even say oppisite.

There is way more to this conflict than meets the eye. Someone mentioned oil.....ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!!! Right now Russia has a monopoly on the pipes....the US was going to build a new system through Georgia. I have no idea why Georgia would be so bold as to attack North Ossetria and an equal ingnorance as to why Russia would so overreact to that. Maybe......

I understand why the Russian governement would be getting a tad nervous about being surrounded by US allies (Poland, Georgia) but let's face it, the statement above is laughable! Yes, because the Russians are known for their humanitarian traits B)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...