The Ossetian Conflic

[eternal light]

I'm afraid I have no more information about our army being at Poti, though I'm not refusing this fact.

Russian websites report on recent actions in Poti, Black Sea port.

Hmmmm....and we are also hearing that Russia cut off all internet connectivity from Georgia so we know we can't get any news that way.....

After searching a little, you might find a link, and here is a report from the Georgian Times on the activity in Poti. From this report it appears that Russia's army exploded two ships in Poti, the Aiety and Borti 302. They reportedly captured soldiers as well.

Russian Occupational Army Blew off Two Ships

As it became known, Russian occupational army exploded ship ‘Aiety ‘of the Coastal Defense of Poti. Besides, the Russian invaders blew off the ship ‘Borti 302’ belonged to the landing force of maritime.

At the moment, there is no information regarding the militants captivated by the Russians.

http://www.geotimes.ge/

Someone had wondered why Israel was involved.

The small Jewish community of the port city of Poti (Western Georgia), together with all citizens is now in her sixth day felt the "beauty" of Russian occupation. Порт захвачен русскими десантниками, которые опустошают все склады Поти. Port captured by Russian paratroopers, which ravaged all the warehouses of Poti. Сотрудница "Джойнта" закупает из остающихся в городе запасов продукты для членов еврейской общины. The staff member "JDC" buys in the city of the remaining stocks of products for members of the Jewish community. Доставка продовольствия и лекарств из Тбилиси невозможна - дороги перекрыты, а мосты взорваны. Delivery of food and medicine from Tbilisi impossible - blocked roads and bridges blown up.

Вечером 13 августа российская авиация начала наносить бомбовые удары по важному портовому городу Грузии – Поти. The evening of August 13 Russian aircraft began to cause bomb attacks on the important port city of Georgia - Poti. Целью бомбёжки стал сам порт, стоящие на рейде военные катера и гражданские транспортные суда, а также база морской полиции (береговой охраны) Поти. The purpose of the bombing was the port itself, facing the raid on military and civilian boats, transport ships, as well as marine police base (Coast Guard) Poti. В результате были убиты 10 человек и более 20-ти получили серьёзные ранения. Больше всего пострадавших среди рабочих и сотрудников администрации порта. As a result 10 people were killed and more than 20 - not seriously injured. Most of the affected workers and Port Authority staff.

Российская оккупация Поти. The Russian occupation of Poti. Галерея фотографий Photo Gallery

На следующий день к Поти подошли корабли ВМФ России, а сам город был взят десантом, рассказали порталу IzRus проживающие в городе Нино С-швили и Манана Ш-швили ( фамилии по понятным причинам не разглашаются, но хранятся в редакции – Ш.Б. ). The next day came to Poti Russia Navy ships, but the city was taken landing, told the portal IzRus living in the city Nino S-shvili Manana and SH-shvili (names for obvious reasons not disclosed, but kept in the editorial - SH.B.) . Сестра Нино проживает в Израиле, также как и сын Мананы. Нино живёт в 500 метрах от порта; она вблизи видела, как российские бомбы уничтожают порт. Nino's sister lives in Israel, as well as the son of Manana. Nino lives 500 meters from the port; she saw near, as Russian bombs destroyed the port. "Только из моих соседей мы похоронили трёх человек", - говорит она. "Just from my neighbors, we have buried three people," - she says.

According to Nino and Manana, a few days ago detachment of Russians in trucks and tanks arrived to the Coast Guard barracks. "Оттуда грузили абсолютно всё - 10 быстроходных катеров увезли в Россию, забрали даже тарелки и вилки из буфета столовой, матрасы и одеяла, а затем взорвали и подожгли здание складов", рассказали порталу IzRus жительницы города. "There is absolutely loaded all - 10 speedboats was taken to Russia, took even the plates and forks from the buffet dining room, mattresses and blankets, and then blew up the building and set fire to warehouses, told the portal IzRus resident city. По их словам, россияне пока не трогают ни гражданское население, ни их имущество. According to them, the Russians have not touch either civilians or their property.

Манана Ш-швили рассказала, что несколько молодых евреев покинули Поти и экстренно вылетели в Израиль; в городе остались в основном пожилые евреи. Manana SH-shvili told that some young Jews fled Poti and urgently flew to Israel; in the city remained mostly elderly Jews. Почти у всех имеются родственники в Израиле. Almost all have relatives in Israel. Манана, врач по специальности, участвует в оказании медицинской помощи в рамках общины. Manana, a doctor by profession, has been involved in providing medical care in the community. По её словам, международная еврейская благотворительная организация "Джойнт" помогает продуктами всем евреям города, но подвоз питания ограничен из-за блокады дорог российскими войсками. According to her, an international Jewish charitable organization "JDC" all Jews products helps the city, but the introduction restricted diet because of the blockade of roads by Russian troops.

The coordinator of social programs "JDC" Anzor Shaoshvili in Georgia (Tbilisi) reported portal IzRus, that among Jews Poti not killed or injured. Он подтвердил, что доставка еды и лекарств в этот город из грузинской столицы пока невозможна – Поти заблокирован. Шаошвили сообщил, что 19 августа российские военные "в порту Поти вскрыли контейнеры, не прошедшие "растаможку", и вывезли в сторону Абхазии восемь джипов "Хаммер" американского производства". He confirmed that delivery of food and medicine to the city from the Georgian capital, yet impossible - Poti blocked. Shaoshvili reported that the August 19, Russian military "in the port of Poti opened the containers, not the past" cleared ", and moved toward Abkhazia eight jeeps" Hammer "American-made."

Представительница джойнтовской благотворительной структуры "Хесед" Марина Гвалия, также находящаяся в Поти, рассказала порталу IzRus, что горожане уже неделю живут в очень тяжелых условиях. She dzhoyntovskoy charitable structure "Hesed" Gvaliya Marina, also located in Poti, told the portal IzRus, that the townspeople week already live in very harsh conditions. Подвоз продуктов осуществляется по единственной не перекрытой россиянами дороге из Батуми. The introduction of products implemented on not only clamped Russians road from Batumi. По оценке Шаошвили и Гвалия, еврейское население Поти составляет 140 человек. According to the Shaoshvili and Gvaliya, Poti Jewish population is 140 people.

До начала российского вторжения в этот портовый город, 44 еврейских старика и четверо детей регулярно получали продуктовую и медицинскую помощь от "Хеседа". Before the Russian invasion in this port city, 44 Jewish old man and four children regularly receive food and medical assistance from "Heseda." Теперь, по словам Марины Гвалия, продукты питания будут доставляться всем евреям, остающимся в заблокированным городе. Now, according to Marina Gvaliya, food will be delivered to all Jews remaining in the city blocked.

link

[Medhb]

Bush is a just little bit better, IMO of course, than Putin Medhb

Agreed

[Medhb]

After searching a little, you might find a link.

Ahhh, thank you so much Eternal Light! Tell me...am I incorrect that internet access was cut off? Or has it been restored now?

Thanks again....

[eternal light]

Ahhh, thank you so much Eternal Light! Tell me...am I incorrect that internet access was cut off? Or has it been restored now?

Thanks again....

You're welcome. You may be partially incorrect; I'm not sure that Russia cut internet access, but there is a report that Georgia has cut access to Russian TV.

By Niko Mchedlishvili

TBILISI (Reuters) - Georgian authorities have blocked most access to Russian news broadcasters and websites since the outbreak of the conflict with Moscow.

Georgia's Interior Ministry said the action was not anti-democratic, but Russian broadcasts could not be allowed to "scare our population".

http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNew...J36223120080819

Perhaps Russia may have over-reacted just a little bit. According to this report, Russia has attacked civilian communities in addition to military installations. Russia has gone way beyond the simple defense of its people. Russian soldiers have apparently raided civilian homes as they razed the city of Gori. That's aggression against civilians. These were not average soldiers; things got pretty ugly. I can understand the need for humanitarian aid in this situation.

Gori Razed to the Ground

You breathe death on every street here, at every corner. A once crowded and joyful town where life was bustling and no one thought of the war has so soon been turned into ruins. Sounds of bombing, fire, smoke and inhuman aggressors raiding the town are everywhere.

On August 8 when I was leaving my native town to head to Tbilisi, I did not imagine that I would not be able to fulfil my promise to my parents that I would return next week, or that in just a week there would be nothing left of the town but ruins.

On August 6, 7, 8 there was absolute peace in the town. People were traveling freely and there was no tension in the air. When the situation in the conflict zone had escalated in the past, it had affected this town more than others as Gori borders the conflict zone. It was even called the ‘pulse’ of the conflict zone. But no one expected what they are seeing now. People from Gori and the surrounding villages who we contacted by phone are reporting alarming stories.

About 10,000 of the former population of 60,000 remain in the town of Gori. It is mostly old people, women and children in the town now, as these were less able to escape during the bombings. A number of shops have been robbed and cars hijacked.

Giorgi M, 69, who lived in one of the central streets about 100 metres away from the police station, recounted that as soon as the Russians began bombing the city, the family decided to send their 2 babies and their mother to Imereti on 12 August. The old man, his wife and son did not leave the house and stayed in the city. He says that, “the invaders took domestic items from houses, furniture, cars and so on.” The remaining inhabitants say that the central districts of the city are destroyed, burned and robbed, including the houses, supermarkets, markets and the branches of TBC Bank and Bank of Georgia in Gori.

The only things that remain intact are the branch of VTB Bank and Joseph Stalin’s museum. Russian Vneshtorgbank holds a controlling interest in VTB Bank while Joseph Stalin still enjoys wide popularity in Russia. An opinion poll conducted in July by a Russian television channel, the Institute of Russian History of the Russian Academy of Sciences and the Public Opinion Fund found that Joseph Stalin is considered by the respondents to be “the most outstanding personality in the history of the nation.” The Russians have now razed his native city to the ground using Stalin’s brutal methods.

One of the escaped displaced persons said “they took everything from the houses and offices including chairs and dishes. We hid in our basements during the bombing, but during the massacre there were no safe places and we just ran in one direction.” “If the invaders did not like someone they just shot them without mercy” he added, and said that the Russian troops did not let them aid wounded civilians.

The locals affirm that Cossacks and Chechens looted the city and the Russian soldiers robbed the Georgian military base. Markets and houses located in the region of Tskali and the centre of Gori were the favoured targets of the looters. Gori residents also say that 100 citizens died in the bombing, among them surgeon Gia Guligashvili, who saved many wounded people’s lives.

The locals say that the Russian military and Ossetian gangs were especially aggressive in the first three days when they entered the town. They showed no tolerance to even ethnic Ossetians living in Gori and the villages near it. “They were very aggressive at the beginning. They were mostly drunk and still are. But several days later they changed somewhat. When I went out, one Russian soldier even offered me bread and cigarettes,” says Zura S, 33, who is still in the hot spot. “They are now scared. There is nothing left to rob and ransack and I heard a Russian soldier telling his superior officer that NATO is sending its troops to help Georgians and they had better go soon.”

Giorgi Sh, another resident of Gori, said: “If you saw them in the daytime you would think that Russians are quiet and do nothing bad but everything starts at night. The Russian soldiers rob the shops, then drink wine all night and steal everything they can carry. My friend living in the centre of Gori and his family have also fled. He has only left his elderly parent at home. When he called his father, he found he was crying loudly. The Russian soldiers broke down his door with machine guns, broke into the house and started robbing the house. When old people tried to resist, the Russians beat them.”

This is a typical story for the whole of Shida Kartli. The Russians have looted most of the villages in the Didi Liakhvi gorge. People who have fled from the gorge are having a hard time but believe that the Russians and the separatist Ossetians will be held accountable.

“Kokoity was threatening that his people would take revenge on us. Apparently, the Ossetians are now fulfilling this promise. Our villages are being looted and destroyed. Unless the Georgian authorities pay attention to the people remaining in the Georgian villages, these criminals will slaughter everyone,” says Natia G, a resident of Didi Liakhvi gorge. Natia fled from the hot spot but her husband remained in the village. “I snatched my son and ran out of the house. I did not even pack my luggage. My husband remained in the village and I don’t really know how he is.”Nino Japaridze

2008.08.18 16:08

http://www.geotimes.ge/index.php?m=home&newsid=11997

Russia lost the moral high ground here. You don't attack civilians in their homes and expect to be considered moral.

[Del Zeppnile]

Oh yeah? does your propoganda show people in South Ossetia crying over the coffins and dead people lying around in hospitals simply because whole families died and there is no one to bury them? Our "propoganda" shows that side of the story.

At least be willing to admit that all of this is about oil, and has nothing to do with the people of South Ossetia. Everybody just wants to control the oil, the United States included. But Russia is trying to play this game the wrong way.

Russia's play lacks sophistication and subtlety... very typical of them.

[sweetangel578]

This statement is false, the host of the show clearly states( at the 34 second mark of this video) before the girl and her aunt even come on screen that "they were able to flee to Russia, flee to the north, to catch a flight home" . How is this a different story than what they expected? She comes and says exactly that. It's funny how people are making like he cut them off when he's obviously trying to give them as much of the remaining seconds left, to say what ever they want. If he wanted to silence them they wouldn't have come back from the break and said "this program ends in one minute but I want to give you 30 seconds to complete your thought". How is that censorship?

It was my opinion that they expected a bit different story from the girl. And I think it's true to some extent. Why would you put a commercial in the middle of the interview in the news programme??? I guess it was just too big of a statement about who to blame from both of them. Initially it was supposed to be a 30-minute interview, but they cut it down to 3 minutes as you can see (i got that from an interview with them in Russian) - they were obviousl trying to decrease the possibility of another scandal statement. It's just my opinion.

[sweetangel578]

Anywho, I saw that video you were referring too. I was talking about a completely unrelated one, so my apologies.

In any case, can this 12 year-old girl really be taken seriously? I mean, come on, she's far too young to understand the conflict, not to mention her family is probably very pro-Russian, so how can she be even remotely, a credible source of information?

If you relatives disappear during a war when you are 12, I guess you'll have at least a remote idea what's going on. Her aunt was talking as well, so if you can't believe her, listen to the grown up woman. I don't understand what other proof you need. People who have actually suffered from this conflict speak out and you still search for some alternative sources to prove them wrong. I don't see logic.

[sweetangel578]

Because the American people pay heavily to support our Navy, we try to put it to good, preferably peaceful, use. Rather than build additional ships for aid purposes, we let the Navy use its ships mainly to cut costs. Although we are defense-ready, we don't have to use our Navy ships for defense during peace-time, and they can accommodate humanitarian needs admirably. Otherwise during peace-time, these expensive ships just sit at port not paying for themselves. They are more productive when they are used to improve people's lives, and thus we get the value for our tax dollar.

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail.

Ok, thanks for explanation about the ships. Might be reasonable to do what they are doing.

[sweetangel578]

Again I say, this is not about the Russian people. Their government has been a killing machine against them. http://markhumphrys.com/soviet.html#butchers

Putin = KGB

I don't believe such websites... Too provocative and created on purpose against the Russian government. So what that Putin has a background in KGB? Then what's this secret Skull and Bones society all about? Why is Bush and other former presidents members of this society? As I remember they had a fascist and communist bent... Don't they have anything to do with the affaires in the world? Do you think they could have influenced this event too?

[sweetangel578]

Agreed. Putins a fucking tool. How that assclown is still breathing is a Gift from Satan

Are you afraid that he'll come and get YOU?

[sweetangel578]

Bush is a just little bit better, IMO of course, than Putin Medhb

How is he better? His army has already killed thousands of Iraqis and Putin's hasn't yet? And for that matter, we have a different president now.

[wanna be drummer]

If you relatives disappear during a war when you are 12, I guess you'll have at least a remote idea what's going on. Her aunt was talking as well, so if you can't believe her, listen to the grown up woman. I don't understand what other proof you need. People who have actually suffered from this conflict speak out and you still search for some alternative sources to prove them wrong. I don't see logic.

Right, because 2 people in all Georgia clearly prove that Russia is not the aggressor here

And why is her aunt a better source. She's even more pro-Russia than her daughter

[Uncle Bill]

It was my opinion that they expected a bit different story from the girl. And I think it's true to some extent. Why would you put a commercial in the middle of the interview in the news programme??? I guess it was just too big of a statement about who to blame from both of them. Initially it was supposed to be a 30-minute interview, but they cut it down to 3 minutes as you can see (i got that from an interview with them in Russian) - they were obviousl trying to decrease the possibility of another scandal statement. It's just my opinion.

Your statement makes no sense. You say they got a different story than they expected, even though it's obvious from the tape they said exactly what Smith said they would, and cut the interview short. But they didn't even start the interview until the last segment of the show, when there is only a few minutes of the program left, how could they possibly have planned a 30 minute interview. I have never seen a 30 minute interview with anyone on Smith's show, please post your proof of this statement. If the girl and her aunt said it was supposed to be 30 minutes they obviously were mistaken for all the reasons stated above, and they are both just as obviously biased and political in their remarks.

[wanna be drummer]

Are you afraid that he'll come and get YOU?

Where in the hell did I say he scares me? My point was that he's a walking, talking asshole, who has shit on his people since he's been in positions that matter. He sucked as a President, why would he be better at the Prime Minister position (which he gave moer power to before he left the presidency...that didn't throw up any red flags?)

How is he better? His army has already killed thousands of Iraqis and Putin's hasn't yet? And for that matter, we have a different president now.

Yeah, but now a lot of power has been granted to the Prime Minister, which Putin himself bestowed before he left the presidency, so he's still running a good deal of the shots.

As far as Bush vs. Putin: You have to be kidding me. Our work in Iraq has killed off the army of Hussein, not to mention thousands of insurgents and terrorist groups. It's also stopped the ability for Iraq to cause any more trouble in the Middle East. Bush may not be a great president, but he surely beats Putin

Putin on the other hand, has cracked down on most forms of Russian civil liberties. He has essentially wiped out freedom of the press, and now the state owns and controls most of the news channels that you would watch on tv. But I'm sure they won't mention that in their reports

He's also accused of multiple assassinations against his own people, but surely you know on that subject than I.

In any case, Bush may have started two wars, but he isn't wiping out our personal freedoms nor is he Communist (Putin, I'm looking at you).

[Uncle Bill]

Putin on the other hand, has cracked down on most forms of Russian civil liberties. He has essentially wiped out freedom of the press, and now the state owns and controls most of the news channels that you would watch on tv. But I'm sure they won't mention that in their reports

What do you mean? He's the

If that is what passes for news in Russia it's no wonder Maureen and sweetangel think like they do.

The funniest part is Bush made up to look like Hitler, talk about the kettle calling the pot black.

[BIGDAN]

You're welcome. You may be partially incorrect; I'm not sure that Russia cut internet access, but there is a report that Georgia has cut access to Russian TV.

Perhaps Russia may have over-reacted just a little bit. According to this report, Russia has attacked civilian communities in addition to military installations. Russia has gone way beyond the simple defense of its people. Russian soldiers have apparently raided civilian homes as they razed the city of Gori. That's aggression against civilians. These were not average soldiers; things got pretty ugly. I can understand the need for humanitarian aid in this situation.

Russia lost the moral high ground here. You don't attack civilians in their homes and expect to be considered moral.

Hi 'eternal light'

And when did Americia loose the moral highground, was it in 1968 during the Vietnam war when your forces massacred 347 unarmed civilians at My Lai.

"Lt. Calley and the My Lai Massacre: During the invasion of My Lai (my son) an estimated 347 unarmed Vietnamese civilians, mostly elderly civilians, women, and children were gunned down by U.S. soldiers led by Lt. William L. Calley. The massacre remained concealed until the fall of 1969 after government officials received numerous written complaints by soldiers who were calling for an official investigation into the incident.

The U.S. army and the House of Representatives performed a special investigation of the incident and it was determined that a massacre had occurred. The investigation uncovered 30 individuals whose actions could have been prosecuted and another 30 whose actions contributed to covering up the massacre.

The U.S. Army was already under extreme criticism for it's conduct in Vietnam. It has been speculated that because of this the Army attempted to down play the incident by charging only a handful for their participation in the My Lai Massacre. Lt. Calley was among that group and he was called back to the United States and charged with 109 counts of murder.

During Calley's testimony he said he was following the orders of Captain Earnest Medina who had ordered that "anybody they couldn't move would be wasted." Lt. Calley was the only person found guilty for the massacre. He was convicted and sentenced to life in prison which was later reduced to 10 years. In September 1974 his conviction was overturned and he was released."

http://crime.about.com/od/murder/p/calley.htm

Or was it before?

Or how about the massacres of the Red Indians, which went on for decades unchecked.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/History/...es_History.html

And if you read the above link you will discover that your Democraticly Elected Government's were not too choosy about who they massacred, be it Red Indians, Korean Civilians, Vietnameese Civilians, Iraqi Civilians, Striking Coal Miners, Filipino Civilians, Japaneese Civilians, and your own Students. It seems you are to rival Hitler in the unjustifiable way you massacre people, and you dont even own up to it when you do. No one gets punnished, except the poor Lt Calley, who was only obaying orders. So look closely at yourselves before you judge others too harshly. And remember what go's around come's around. Get your own house in order, then with some credability you can point out that Russia is acting improperly.

Regards, Danny

[wanna be drummer]

What do you mean? He's the

If that is what passes for news in Russia it's no wonder Maureen and sweetangel think like they do.

The funniest part is Bush made up to look like Hitler, talk about the kettle calling the pot black.

And people wonder why the world is so screwed up.

You can't fix stupid

[Medhb]

Hi 'eternal light'

And when did Americia loose the moral highground, was it in 1968 during the Vietnam war when your forces massacred 347 unarmed civilians at My Lai.

"Lt. Calley and the My Lai Massacre: During the invasion of My Lai (my son) an estimated 347 unarmed Vietnamese civilians, mostly elderly civilians, women, and children were gunned down by U.S. soldiers led by Lt. William L. Calley. The massacre remained concealed until the fall of 1969 after government officials received numerous written complaints by soldiers who were calling for an official investigation into the incident.

The U.S. army and the House of Representatives performed a special investigation of the incident and it was determined that a massacre had occurred. The investigation uncovered 30 individuals whose actions could have been prosecuted and another 30 whose actions contributed to covering up the massacre.

The U.S. Army was already under extreme criticism for it's conduct in Vietnam. It has been speculated that because of this the Army attempted to down play the incident by charging only a handful for their participation in the My Lai Massacre. Lt. Calley was among that group and he was called back to the United States and charged with 109 counts of murder.

During Calley's testimony he said he was following the orders of Captain Earnest Medina who had ordered that "anybody they couldn't move would be wasted." Lt. Calley was the only person found guilty for the massacre. He was convicted and sentenced to life in prison which was later reduced to 10 years. In September 1974 his conviction was overturned and he was released."

http://crime.about.com/od/murder/p/calley.htm

Or was it before?

Or how about the massacres of the Red Indians, which went on for decades unchecked.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/History/...es_History.html

And if you read the above link you will discover that your Democraticly Elected Government's were not too choosy about who they massacred, be it Red Indians, Korean Civilians, Vietnameese Civilians, Iraqi Civilians, Striking Coal Miners, Filipino Civilians, Japaneese Civilians, and your own Students. It seems you are to rival Hitler in the unjustifiable way you massacre people, and you dont even own up to it when you do. No one gets punnished, except the poor Lt Calley, who was only obaying orders. So look closely at yourselves before you judge others too harshly. And remember what go's around come's around. Get your own house in order, then with some credability you can point out that Russia is acting improperly.

Regards, Danny

Danny, with all due respect, I've not always been proud of what our government has done but in this case we are not discussing the topics above, we are discussing Georgia, Osessetia and Russia. As far as I know we have no troops or weapons over there so we can't possibly be contributing to this disaster. As for how this will progress....Russia has clearly overstepped any ground they could stand on to say they are 'merely protecting' Ossestians....when are the Russian troops going to withdraw from GEORGIA as promised days ago?

And....obviously biased reporting when Putin is described as the Worlds #1 Peacemaker. One would need to be simply, incredibly niave or brainwashed to believe that.

[Medhb]

Hi 'eternal light'

And when did Americia loose the moral highground, was it in 1968 during the Vietnam war when your forces massacred 347 unarmed civilians at My Lai.

"Lt. Calley and the My Lai Massacre: During the invasion of My Lai (my son) an estimated 347 unarmed Vietnamese civilians, mostly elderly civilians, women, and children were gunned down by U.S. soldiers led by Lt. William L. Calley. The massacre remained concealed until the fall of 1969 after government officials received numerous written complaints by soldiers who were calling for an official investigation into the incident.

The U.S. army and the House of Representatives performed a special investigation of the incident and it was determined that a massacre had occurred. The investigation uncovered 30 individuals whose actions could have been prosecuted and another 30 whose actions contributed to covering up the massacre.

The U.S. Army was already under extreme criticism for it's conduct in Vietnam. It has been speculated that because of this the Army attempted to down play the incident by charging only a handful for their participation in the My Lai Massacre. Lt. Calley was among that group and he was called back to the United States and charged with 109 counts of murder.

During Calley's testimony he said he was following the orders of Captain Earnest Medina who had ordered that "anybody they couldn't move would be wasted." Lt. Calley was the only person found guilty for the massacre. He was convicted and sentenced to life in prison which was later reduced to 10 years. In September 1974 his conviction was overturned and he was released."

http://crime.about.com/od/murder/p/calley.htm

Or was it before?

Or how about the massacres of the Red Indians, which went on for decades unchecked.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/History/...es_History.html

And if you read the above link you will discover that your Democraticly Elected Government's were not too choosy about who they massacred, be it Red Indians, Korean Civilians, Vietnameese Civilians, Iraqi Civilians, Striking Coal Miners, Filipino Civilians, Japaneese Civilians, and your own Students. It seems you are to rival Hitler in the unjustifiable way you massacre people, and you dont even own up to it when you do. No one gets punnished, except the poor Lt Calley, who was only obaying orders. So look closely at yourselves before you judge others too harshly. And remember what go's around come's around. Get your own house in order, then with some credability you can point out that Russia is acting improperly.

Regards, Danny

Just want to add...we are supposed to learn from History. Mistakes have been made all over the world. Thank you for pointing out ours Danny. In any event, we are supposed to be all working towards a better, more peaceful world.....and you are supporting Russias invasion of Georgia? And who will be next? Everyone knows Putin is really calling the shots in Russia, the president is a figurehead and Putin wants the Iron Curtain back.

Mistake number 1 for the US: We should have seen this coming. And I agree with Obama when he says:

"Obama strongly condemned Russia's actions Tuesday but said U.S. involvement in Iraq had imperiled its ability to take a leadership role in the matter.

"We failed to head off this conflict and lost leverage in our ability to contain it because our leaders have been distracted, our resources overstretched, and our alliances frayed," Obama said.":

[sweetangel578]

It's called history, I guess that you do not believe in the Hollocaust either. I keep saying that the Russian people are good people. I do mean that. They have been used and murdered by their own government time and time again throughout history. Already, the "Soviets" are pumping most of their new oil money into rebuilding their military, not the people. Yes, when the "Soviets" were down for a few years and needed the rest of the world they acted like friends. Sadly, it looks like they are back to their old tricks.

Yes, I do believe in Hollocaust. And I'm not denying history. All I was saying is that this webside doesn't look credible to me.

And thank you for calling us good people. Can I just ask you smth? Do you truely believe nothing has changed since the Soviet times and we still live supressed by our own government?

[zepyep]

Moscow never sleeps

[wanna be drummer]

Yes, I do believe in Hollocaust. And I'm not denying history. All I was saying is that this webside doesn't look credible to me.

And thank you for calling us good people. Can I just ask you smth? Do you truely believe nothing has changed since the Soviet times and we still live supressed by our own government?

Look at your freedom of press alone...nothings changed.

Sure the gulags are gone (I think...) but personal freedom still doesn't mean a thing to the Russian Government

[sweetangel578]

Where in the hell did I say he scares me? My point was that he's a walking, talking asshole, who has shit on his people since he's been in positions that matter. He sucked as a President, why would he be better at the Prime Minister position (which he gave moer power to before he left the presidency...that didn't throw up any red flags?)

Yeah, but now a lot of power has been granted to the Prime Minister, which Putin himself bestowed before he left the presidency, so he's still running a good deal of the shots.

As far as Bush vs. Putin: You have to be kidding me. Our work in Iraq has killed off the army of Hussein, not to mention thousands of insurgents and terrorist groups. It's also stopped the ability for Iraq to cause any more trouble in the Middle East. Bush may not be a great president, but he surely beats Putin

Putin on the other hand, has cracked down on most forms of Russian civil liberties. He has essentially wiped out freedom of the press, and now the state owns and controls most of the news channels that you would watch on tv. But I'm sure they won't mention that in their reports

He's also accused of multiple assassinations against his own people, but surely you know on that subject than I.

In any case, Bush may have started two wars, but he isn't wiping out our personal freedoms nor is he Communist (Putin, I'm looking at you).

I was just joking about coming and getting you. Not yet)

As far as this war in Iraq goes - if I remember correctly America couldn't get a resolution that would allow your army to go and kill the army of Hussein. There are NATO troops who are supposed to deal with these issues. Why do all of these countries still donate money to NATO and train soldiers up to very high standards? What's the purpose of NATO then? Why not dissolve it? Soviet Union is out of your way now anyway. And I won't even start on the issue of weapons of mass destruction as the primary reason for this war.

About news channels - don't worry, we got rich enough to afford sattelite tv and watch your American and British channels. So we aren't deprived of the real information that comes from the west. And yes, we do learn English in schools to understand you.

So what other civil liberties are we deprived of apart from free press? I personally don't feel deprived of anything.

[BIGDAN]

Just want to add...we are supposed to learn from History. Mistakes have been made all over the world. Thank you for pointing out ours Danny. In any event, we are supposed to be all working towards a better, more peaceful world.....and you are supporting Russias invasion of Georgia? And who will be next? Everyone knows Putin is really calling the shots in Russia, the president is a figurehead and Putin wants the Iron Curtain back.

Mistake number 1 for the US: We should have seen this coming. And I agree with Obama when he says:

"Obama strongly condemned Russia's actions Tuesday but said U.S. involvement in Iraq had imperiled its ability to take a leadership role in the matter.

"We failed to head off this conflict and lost leverage in our ability to contain it because our leaders have been distracted, our resources overstretched, and our alliances frayed," Obama said.":

Hi Medhb,

Thanks mate, but it is not only Americia that I bring to your notice, Great Britain, France, Germany, Spain are other countries that have done things just as bad. There are good people on this site, having a go at each other for sticking up for their countries is wrong, please stop.

Government's are to blame not people, if you cant take someone critizing your government, then dont critize their's, keep your opinions to yourself. Our governments are all too blame, throughout history if it's not one then it's the other to blame, we are just ordinary people, it's not our fault things like this happen. So please stay friends and stop trying to be right, because we are all wrong, at least some of the time anyway.

Regards, Danny

PS. President Bush did not have the mandate from the UN to invade Iraq, so that makes him just as guilty as President Putin for not being Democratic, and acting like a dictator.

[sweetangel578]

Right, because 2 people in all Georgia clearly prove that Russia is not the aggressor here

And why is her aunt a better source. She's even more pro-Russia than her daughter

So you'd rather believe your government to tell you who the aggressor is than to listen to people who have actually been there. And somebody here has already provided a link with an AMERICAN man telling the truth. Suit yourself, but I don't see the point of this thread if you don't listen to anyone else other than yourself and are being stubborn about every single piece of information that a Russian person gives you.