The Ossetian Conflic

[sweetangel578]

Your statement makes no sense. You say they got a different story than they expected, even though it's obvious from the tape they said exactly what Smith said they would, and cut the interview short. But they didn't even start the interview until the last segment of the show, when there is only a few minutes of the program left, how could they possibly have planned a 30 minute interview. I have never seen a 30 minute interview with anyone on Smith's show, please post your proof of this statement. If the girl and her aunt said it was supposed to be 30 minutes they obviously were mistaken for all the reasons stated above, and they are both just as obviously biased and political in their remarks.

Sorry, my bad. I listened to their interview in Russian again and i confused the 30-minutes thing. They said they had to wait almost all 30 minutes and thought they wouldnt allow them to speak at all. There is some good stuff that they say in this interview.

http://kp.ru/daily/24148/365444/

If you have any means of translating it, it might be useful

[Uncle Bill]

For the record:

I believe that both the girl and her aunt are telling the story as they see it, and seem credible though biased. I don't believe they are lying/ misleading.

I personally haven't decided who's more to blame, what happens next will tell the tale I think. Will the Russians do as they agreed and pull back or will they keep finding excuses to expand their occupation of Georgian territory? Time will tell.

[wanna be drummer]

I was just joking about coming and getting you. Not yet)

As far as this war in Iraq goes - if I remember correctly America couldn't get a resolution that would allow your army to go and kill the army of Hussein. There are NATO troops who are supposed to deal with these issues. Why do all of these countries still donate money to NATO and train soldiers up to very high standards? What's the purpose of NATO then? Why not dissolve it? Soviet Union is out of your way now anyway. And I won't even start on the issue of weapons of mass destruction as the primary reason for this war.

uh....relevance?

About news channels - don't worry, we got rich enough to afford sattelite tv and watch your American and British channels. So we aren't deprived of the real information that comes from the west. And yes, we do learn English in schools to understand you.

So what other civil liberties are we deprived of apart from free press? I personally don't feel deprived of anything.

Oh I see. So your government can flat out lie to you, but its fine so long as some of the Russian people have satellite televisions? Yeah, thats a good thought.

So you'd rather believe your government to tell you who the aggressor is than to listen to people who have actually been there. And somebody here has already provided a link with an AMERICAN man telling the truth. Suit yourself, but I don't see the point of this thread if you don't listen to anyone else other than yourself and are being stubborn about every single piece of information that a Russian person gives you.

I'm not listening to my government. I'm listening to the media, which is free from the government and not censored to its will, and forming my own opinions and ideas.

And how am I being stubborn? Because I have an opinion? Because I'm not going to base that opinion solely off a 12 year old and her pro-Russia auntie? I need more than that to change my mind. What if 3 people thanked the Georgian troops for being "rescued"? Would you change your mind, afterall 3 is bigger than 2...

No, you wouldn't. Because the words of 3 random people are not enough to form an opinion for something as deep and complicated as this situation.

Think of this, there are people who thank the Nazis for "saving them" too...does that change your view of them?

[wanna be drummer]

Hi Medhb,

Thanks mate, but it is not only Americia that I bring to your notice, Great Britain, France, Germany, Spain are other countries that have done things just as bad. There are good people on this site, having a go at each other for sticking up for their countries is wrong, please stop.

Government's are to blame not people, if you cant take someone critizing your government, then dont critize their's, keep your opinions to yourself. Our governments are all too blame, throughout history if it's not one then it's the other to blame, we are just ordinary people, it's not our fault things like this happen. So please stay friends and stop trying to be right, because we are all wrong, at least some of the time anyway.

Regards, Danny

I don't know if you're referring to me or not, but I'm not having a go at somebody for defending their country. They are free too. And I would never disrespect the Russian people, but I can criticize the Russian Government. One is free to stick up for their government, I don't mind that at all. Hell, someone can criticize America, go for it. But you can't tell someone "Don't criticize the Putin because Russians are reading this."

Thats simply bullshit..

PS. President Bush did not have the mandate from the UN to invade Iraq, so that makes him just as guilty as President Putin for not being Democratic, and acting like a dictator.

We are not slaves to the UN. It does not guide us nor govern our decisions. So you're wrong, it's not dictatorial to disobey it.

[XerSizNRite]

PS. President Bush did not have the mandate from the UN to invade Iraq, so that makes him just as guilty as President Putin for not being Democratic, and acting like a dictator.

Oh brother!!!

Putin did not employ a democratic process, when invading Georgia!

Did he (Putin) or President Dmitry Medvedev go to the UN, before there invasion of Georgia?

NO!!!

President Bush did not have the mandate from the UN to invade Iraq, because the UN Security Council and leaders of these countries were in bed (oil for food) with Saddam Hussein.

The United States of America was NEVER going to get the “go” from the United Nations.

As far as I am concerned, as many of my fellow Americans, we had exhausted all democratic diplomacy concerning Saddam Hussein.

[sweetangel578]

Just want to add...we are supposed to learn from History. Mistakes have been made all over the world. Thank you for pointing out ours Danny. In any event, we are supposed to be all working towards a better, more peaceful world.....and you are supporting Russias invasion of Georgia? And who will be next? Everyone knows Putin is really calling the shots in Russia, the president is a figurehead and Putin wants the Iron Curtain back.

Mistake number 1 for the US: We should have seen this coming. And I agree with Obama when he says:

"Obama strongly condemned Russia's actions Tuesday but said U.S. involvement in Iraq had imperiled its ability to take a leadership role in the matter.

"We failed to head off this conflict and lost leverage in our ability to contain it because our leaders have been distracted, our resources overstretched, and our alliances frayed," Obama said.":

Yet Obama said if he gets elected he'll be prepared to bomb Iran if there is any threat to world security. Yes, indeed, we all should try to make this world more peaceful...

And for the record - they have found US made weapons in Georgia left by the Georgian army when they ran.

[I have got a horsey]

It's fun watching a lot of Americans on this board condemn the Russian invasion of parts of Georgia, while pleading virtues and the righteousness of the USA's invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan...

Ah, it's just like the Cold War again

My only question about the claims that Russia premeditated this war, if Putin is considered to be the true power holder in Russia, and if this war was premeditated, then it just seems slightly odd to me that he was in Beijing at the Olympics when this thing broke out.

[BIGDAN]

I don't know if you're referring to me or not, but I'm not having a go at somebody for defending their country. They are free too. And I would never disrespect the Russian people, but I can criticize the Russian Government. One is free to stick up for their government, I don't mind that at all. Hell, someone can criticize America, go for it. But you can't tell someone "Don't criticize the Putin because Russians are reading this."

Thats simply bullshit..

We are not slaves to the UN. It does not guide us nor govern our decisions. So you're wrong, it's not dictatorial to disobey it.

Hi 'wanna be drummer'

I'm not having a go at anybody individualy, but it is getting rather personal on here and I was only trying to defuse the situation a little. The rest of your statement I agree with except this. Wether you like it or not, both Americia and Great Britain and many other countries set up the UN to stop just what has happened in Iraq. We are all slaves to the UN, even you in Americia are nor exempt from this.

If as you say "It does not guide us nor govern our decisions" then your country is not practicing Democracy, as just because the thing you help set up, the UN, says your country cant not do something, and your country goes ahead and does it, then that makes your country undemocratic and exhibits it's self as a Dictatorial Government moving along the same lines as Russia, China and Nazi Germany. Who all do/did what ever their fancy took them.

If you dont like the UNs decisions then be honourable and leave it, and carry on as the worlds biggest bully nation on this earth today, alongside Russia, China and Nazi Germany, as you will be proved to be no better than they were/are in the eyes of the world.

The only "bullshit" you should be worrying about today is your own governments bullshit with it's double standards and lies, when that is corrected then and only then move on to attacking other peoples governments. Get your own house in order first, before you start on someone elses.

Regards, Danny

[sweetangel578]

uh....relevance?

Oh I see. So your government can flat out lie to you, but its fine so long as some of the Russian people have satellite televisions? Yeah, thats a good thought.

I'm not listening to my government. I'm listening to the media, which is free from the government and not censored to its will, and forming my own opinions and ideas.

And how am I being stubborn? Because I have an opinion? Because I'm not going to base that opinion solely off a 12 year old and her pro-Russia auntie? I need more than that to change my mind. What if 3 people thanked the Georgian troops for being "rescued"? Would you change your mind, afterall 3 is bigger than 2...

No, you wouldn't. Because the words of 3 random people are not enough to form an opinion for something as deep and complicated as this situation.

Think of this, there are people who thank the Nazis for "saving them" too...does that change your view of them?

The point about media is that we have access to alternative news right now regarding the war in Ossetia.

You are being stubborn because you claim that all we say here is a lie and should be disregarded as a result of our biased press. We are people too and have our own opinions just like you do and our press has nothing to do with it.

And your press is showing you who...? - yes, that is right - extremely anti-Russia Condoleezza Rice and President Bush. It's not like news reporters form their views out of nowhere...

[Atlas]

Yes, I do believe in Hollocaust. And I'm not denying history. All I was saying is that this webside doesn't look credible to me.

And thank you for calling us good people. Can I just ask you smth? Do you truely believe nothing has changed since the Soviet times and we still live supressed by our own government?

"Who controls the past, controls the future. Who controls the present, controls the past." ~ George Orwell, 1984

Winston himself was engaged in altering the past at the Ministry of Truth and he knew very well how the process worked. But there had been one incident which stood out in his memory, convincing him that lies could not become truth. This incident had happened around 1965. Most of the original leaders of the Party Revolution except Big Brother himself had been purged and vaporized on the charge of being counter revolutionaries and traitors. Prominent among these were three leaders Jones, Aaronson and Rutherford. They had all been arrested and charged of treason to the Party and after public confessions had been temporarily reinstated. But everyone knew this was only a stopgap arrangement, once you fell into the hands of the thought police there was no escape. Winston had seen the three men at a café where they were carefully avoided by most people as being dangerous to associate with. He had noticed the signs of torture on their faces.

Soon afterwards, the three were rearrested and after further confessions of conspiracies with Eurasia were executed. Years later a scrap of newspaper which somehow had escaped destruction had found it’s way to Winston’s desk. There was a photograph of the three men attending a prominent Party function on the same date they were said to have been launching conspiracies on Eurasian soil. Winston had destroyed the paper immediately, but it stayed at the back of his mind, as evidence confirming what he already knew, that what the Party presented as Truth was a complete tissue of lies.

Winston wondered how far this falsification would go. Given the inexorable nature of the Party’s project, sooner or later, they would declare that two and two are five and if he, Winston questioned it he would probably be a lunatic and "in a minority of one." At this point however, Winston thinks of O’Brien and the thought is strangely reassuring. He feels that he would have a sympathetic listener in O’Brien and that O’Brien actually is the audience for whom he is keeping his diary. With new confidence he sets out his definition of freedom in the diary – "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows."

[BIGDAN]

Oh brother!!!

Putin did not employ a democratic process, when invading Georgia!

Did he (Putin) or President Dmitry Medvedev go to the UN, before there invasion of Georgia?

NO!!!

President Bush did not have the mandate from the UN to invade Iraq, because the UN Security Council and leaders of these countries were in bed (oil for food) with Saddam Hussein.

The United States of America was NEVER going to get the “go” from the United Nations.

As far as I am concerned, as many of my fellow Americans, we had exhausted all democratic diplomacy concerning Saddam Hussein.

As I have said before, if the American Government didn't like the UN's decision then it should leave it and go it's own way in this world. And remember, the rest of the world has seen American bullshit all too often. Americia attacked Iraq because it said Iraq had WOMD, Americia was wrong, it was a complete hoax so your government could get control of Iraqi oil and sell it to itself cheaply.

I believe the British Government was also implicit in this and I am ashamed of them that they could go to war over a blatant lie and join possibly the biggest bully nation ever to exist on this earth. I put Bush and Blair up there with Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, and all the other despots that I have missed out. And all for oil, as oil is money and power. Control the oil and you control the world.

Regards, Danny

[Uncle Bill]

My only question about the claims that Russia premeditated this war, if Putin is considered to be the true power holder in Russia, and if this war was premeditated, then it just seems slightly odd to me that he was in Beijing at the Olympics when this thing broke out.

I haven't heard anyone denying that Georgia started the current "hot war" on the 8th of August, the starting day of Beijing Olympics, with a military offensive to "restore constitutional order in the whole region."(their words)

Putin quickly left China and headed to the region to take personal control over the situation.

[I have got a horsey]

The point about media is that we have access to alternative news right now regarding the war in Ossetia.

You are being stubborn because you claim that all we say here is a lie and should be disregarded as a result of our biased press. We are people too and have our own opinions just like you do and our press has nothing to do with it.

Russians have lived through decades and decades of having news media that isn't truthfull, or is biased, which has meant Russians have become extremely resourceful at obtaining news and information from other sources.

[Medhb]

Hi Medhb,

Thanks mate, but it is not only Americia that I bring to your notice, Great Britain, France, Germany, Spain are other countries that have done things just as bad. There are good people on this site, having a go at each other for sticking up for their countries is wrong, please stop.

Government's are to blame not people, if you cant take someone critizing your government, then dont critize their's, keep your opinions to yourself. Our governments are all too blame, throughout history if it's not one then it's the other to blame, we are just ordinary people, it's not our fault things like this happen. So please stay friends and stop trying to be right, because we are all wrong, at least some of the time anyway.

Regards, Danny

PS. President Bush did not have the mandate from the UN to invade Iraq, so that makes him just as guilty as President Putin for not being Democratic, and acting like a dictator.

Please don't get me wrong Danny, I'm not trying to be right here. And, there are things going on in the world, as I said in a previous post, that could give the Russian governement concern. I relish this forum where we can all discuss our thoughts and perceptions as PEOPLE and not as our governement would represent us. I'm plenty embarrassed by many mistakes the American governement has made but I wouldn't want to be anything other than an American and I'm proud of our country and the aid that we've given to so many others. I'm sure many people share my feelings no matter what country they are from.

But come on....as much as I personally think Bush is a boob, I don't think he's in the same realm as Putin

[sweetangel578]

Oh brother!!!

Putin did not employ a democratic process, when invading Georgia!

Did he (Putin) or President Dmitry Medvedev go to the UN, before there invasion of Georgia?

NO!!!

President Bush did not have the mandate from the UN to invade Iraq, because the UN Security Council and leaders of these countries were in bed (oil for food) with Saddam Hussein.

The United States of America was NEVER going to get the “go” from the United Nations.

As far as I am concerned, as many of my fellow Americans, we had exhausted all democratic diplomacy concerning Saddam Hussein.

Can I just correct you here a little bit. It was the Georgian troops who started shooting at the Russian peacekeepers for unknown reasons. The same night Churkin (Russian ambassador for the UN) called for an emergency meeting in the UN asking for help from the organisation. Yet there was silence and no one was prepared to pass any kind of resolution. Why is this fact being disregarded?

[sweetangel578]

Russians have lived through decades and decades of having news media that isn't truthfull, or is biased, which has meant Russians have become extremely resourceful at obtaining news and information from other sources.

Thank you for understanding

[Medhb]

Yet Obama said if he gets elected he'll be prepared to bomb Iran if there is any threat to world security. Yes, indeed, we all should try to make this world more peaceful...

And for the record - they have found US made weapons in Georgia left by the Georgian army when they ran.

It's no secret that the US has supported the Georgian military so that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. It's one of the perks when you 'join the team'

Of course he would omb Iran if there was a threat to WORLD security! And I would hope the Russian government would JOIN us in that war! Russia stands as much of a chance of being nuked by Iran as it does by the US, possibly more. All we want to do is protect our ourselves from our self proclaimed enemies who will not live in peace until we are destroyed. No one is saying that to the people in Russia. Aren't you blissfully lucky in that way?

[BIGDAN]

Please don't get me wrong Danny, I'm not trying to be right here. And, there are things going on in the world, as I said in a previous post, that could give the Russian governement concern. I relish this forum where we can all discuss our thoughts and perceptions as PEOPLE and not as our governement would represent us. I'm plenty embarrassed by many mistakes the American governement has made but I wouldn't want to be anything other than an American and I'm proud of our country and the aid that we've given to so many others. I'm sure many people share my feelings no matter what country they are from.

But come on....as much as I personally think Bush is a boob, I don't think he's in the same realm as Putin

Hi 'Medhb'

Lets take a step back here and regroup. I am English, we are from Viking decent, you know rape and pillage. When I see my fellow country men carrying on with these traditions it dont make excuses for their behavior, I condem it.

We as allies and friends, US and UK, must set a better example to the world, not only as people but as governments, and I dont think we do that. We act in the same way as the people we condem, thats the irony.

As for comparing Putin with Bush, I would say that the Russian Politicians do it in the open and are not worried about the world knowing what they do, whereas Bush and many western governments do the same but covertly, it makes us just the same as them, and that is what I can't stomach, double standards. Your governments may have learnt a lot of your foreigh policy from Great Britain and it dosen't work in the long run as people become aware what you are doing in their countries becomes apparent, and then they become violent and want you out. History is always repeating itself. We are going from one conflict to another without ever winning anything. And the only people who win are the Politicians and their friends who are tied up in arms deals and oil companies. Lets all stay friends and find something more enjoyable to talk about, like it's Roberts Birthday.

Regards, Danny

PS. And by taking over from the UK as the worlds policemen, you will the same amount of thanks as we did, nothing, good luck Americia as you will need a lot of it.

[Medhb]

As I have said before, if the American Government didn't like the UN's decision then it should leave it and go it's own way in this world. A remember, the rest of the world has seen American bullshit all too often. Americia attacked Iraq because it said Iraq had WOMD, Americia was wrong, it was a complete hoax so your government could get control of Iraqi oil and sell it to itself cheaply.

I believe the British Government was also implicit in this and I am ashamed of them that they could go to war over a blatant lie and join possibly the biggest bully nation ever to exist on this earth. I put Bush and Blair up there with Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, and all the other despots that I have missed out. And all for oil, as oil is money and power. Control the oil and you control the world.

Regards, Danny

I am not ashamed that I was very vocally against this war from the very beginning. I used to get into heated debates with my Republican friends about it. They couldn't understand my point of view and I couldn't understand theirs. I personally think the US should mind it's own business...and that comes down to sending charitable money and military support to anyone besides ourselves. Of course that is a silly view because we have also saved many, many lives.

When we went against the UN that's when I REALLY KNEW that GWB was a boob. As far as Condi, she is three times as brilliant as he is and I think he probably doesn't listen to her like he should...no, he listens to the OTHER boobs he has in his inner circle. And Condi is an expert in Russian history and government...I have no doubt that she knows exactly what is motivating the people in charge of Russia right now.

[wanna be drummer]

Hi 'wanna be drummer'

I'm not having a go at anybody individualy, but it is getting rather personal on here and I was only trying to defuse the situation a little. The rest of your statement I agree with except this. Wether you like it or not, both Americia and Great Britain and many other countries set up the UN to stop just what has happened in Iraq. We are all slaves to the UN, even you in Americia are nor exempt from this.

If I had my way, it wouldn't exist anymore.

If as you say "It does not guide us nor govern our decisions" then your country is not practicing Democracy, as just because the thing you help set up, the UN, says your country cant not do something, and your country goes ahead and does it, then that makes your country undemocratic and exhibits it's self as a Dictatorial Government moving along the same lines as Russia, China and Nazi Germany. Who all do/did what ever their fancy took them.

The UN does not have the right to dictate the world

If you dont like the UNs decisions then be honourable and leave it, and carry on as the worlds biggest bully nation on this earth today, alongside Russia, China and Nazi Germany, as you will be proved to be no better than they were/are in the eyes of the world.

The only "bullshit" you should be worrying about today is your own governments bullshit with it's double standards and lies, when that is corrected then and only then move on to attacking other peoples governments. Get your own house in order first, before you start on someone elses.

Regards, Danny

What double standards pray tell?

The point about media is that we have access to alternative news right now regarding the war in Ossetia.

You are being stubborn because you claim that all we say here is a lie and should be disregarded as a result of our biased press. We are people too and have our own opinions just like you do and our press has nothing to do with it.

And your press is showing you who...? - yes, that is right - extremely anti-Russia Condoleezza Rice and President Bush. It's not like news reporters form their views out of nowhere...

I am not being stubborn. I have formed an opinion, same as you. You have not showed me anything spectacular that could change anybodys mind on the subject. The only thing you've shown me is that a 12 year old and her mom were helped by Russian troops. Whoops de freakin do. Guess that proves Russia's innocence

And what about my press? Showing me Condi and Bush? Like I care about them or what they think. The point is, I'm following the news sources i have that are not in control of my government. What Bush and Rice and Cheney, etc. think is besides the point. They have no say in how I think or what I do. And no, I'm not saying everything you say is a lie. But from what you've shown me, I cannot change my opinion. It's enough to bring in a 12 year old girl and say "See. Proof."

You need more...simple as that

[Medhb]

Hi 'Medhb'

Lets take a step back here and regroup. I am English, we are from Viking decent, you know rape and pillage. When I see my fellow country men carrying on with these traditions it dont make excuses for their behavior, I condem it.

We as allies and friends, US and UK, must set a better example to the world, not only as people but as governments, and I dont think we do that. We act in the same way as the people we condem, thats the irony.

As for comparing Putin with Bush, I would say that the Russian Politicians do it in the open and are not worried about the world knowing what they do, whereas Bush and many western governments do the same but covertly, it makes us just the same as them, and that is what I can't stomach, double standards. Your governments may have learnt a lot of your foreigh policy from Great Britain and it dosen't work in the long run as people become aware what you are doing in their countries becomes apparent, and then they become violent and want you out. History is always repeating itself. We are going from one conflict to another without ever winning anything. And the only people who win are the Politicians and their friends who are tied up in arms deals and oil companies. Lets all stay friends and find something more enjoyable to talk about, like it's Roberts Birthday.

Regards, Danny

PS. And by taking over from the UK as the worlds policemen, you will the same amount of thanks as we did, nothing, good luck Americia as you will need a lot of it.

I can drink to that mate!

[BIGDAN]

If I had my way, it wouldn't exist anymore. And what pray tell would you replace it with?

The UN does not have the right to dictate the world Yes it does

What double standards pray tell? For one thing, Americia stopped the USSR from deploying missiles in Cuba, then deployed it's own missiles in Europe right on Russias doorstep.

I am not being stubborn. I have formed an opinion, same as you. You have not showed me anything spectacular that could change anybodys mind on the subject. The only thing you've shown me is that a 12 year old and her mom were helped by Russian troops. Whoops de freakin do. Guess that proves Russia's innocence

And what about my press? Showing me Condi and Bush? Like I care about them or what they think. The point is, I'm following the news sources i have that are not in control of my government. What Bush and Rice and Cheney, etc. think is besides the point. They have no say in how I think or what I do. And no, I'm not saying everything you say is a lie. But from what you've shown me, I cannot change my opinion. It's enough to bring in a 12 year old girl and say "See. Proof."

You need more...simple as that

[BIGDAN]

I can drink to that mate!

And to you and all of yours.

[XerSizNRite]

As I have said before, if the American Government didn't like the UN's decision then it should leave it and go it's own way in this world. And remember, the rest of the world has seen American bullshit all too often. Americia attacked Iraq because it said Iraq had WOMD, Americia was wrong, it was a complete hoax so your government could get control of Iraqi oil and sell it to itself cheaply.

I believe the British Government was also implicit in this and I am ashamed of them that they could go to war over a blatant lie and join possibly the biggest bully nation ever to exist on this earth. I put Bush and Blair up there with Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, and all the other despots that I have missed out. And all for oil, as oil is money and power. Control the oil and you control the world.

Regards, Danny

I am not sure the United States of America can claim to be the biggest bully nation ever to exist on this earth, as you so state.

Our country has only been around for 232 years.

I believe that title can go to other countries/nations that have a much longer time in existence, including Great Britain.

I know at one time England, bullied the original 13 American colonies, did they not?

I am a true believer of freedom for all people and happen to be a near distant cousin of Abraham Lincoln.

It is people like you that make me thankful, the forefathers of the United States of America got our first victory, kicking England's A$$ during the American Revolutionary War, to gain the freedom I have and enjoy today.

[wanna be drummer]

And what pray tell would you replace it with?

Replace?

Yes it does

According to who? Why should a few select countries be allowed to tell the whole world what to do? Thats totalitarian and its anti-democratic

For one thing, Americia stopped the USSR from deploying missiles in Cuba, then deployed it's own missiles in Europe right on Russias doorstep.

Hey, they were free to try and stop us. They didn't. We did what we could to eleimate the chance of getting nuked. Should we have allowed it?