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Disapointed with TSRTS Collectors Edition


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Let's face it: Every release this Month of November (Zeppelin mania-month) has been suspect.

I don't know why everything was planned for the month of November, it didn't have to be - maybe the Christmas curse of shop 'til you drop?

Anyway, Mothership wasn't needed, TSRTS DVD Collectors Edition packaging is terrible, TSRTS Song Track editing was shoddy, iPOD catalog rushed out, digital download - ehh?

All this rush of Zep stuff - for what?

I don't believe they did it for the cash flow. So why?

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Let's face it: Every release this Month of November (Zeppelin mania-month) has been suspect.

I don't know why everything was planned for the month of November, it didn't have to be - maybe the Christmas curse of shop 'til you drop?

Anyway, Mothership wasn't needed, TSRTS DVD Collectors Edition packaging is terrible, TSRTS Song Track editing was shoddy, iPOD catalog rushed out, digital download - ehh?

All this rush of Zep stuff - for what?

I don't believe they did it for the cash flow. So why?

Pretty obvious why everything was rush released in November, for the o2 Arena gig media frenzy, and the prospect of the announcement of more gigs next year. Obvious I would have thought.

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Let's face it: Every release this Month of November (Zeppelin mania-month) has been suspect.

I don't know why everything was planned for the month of November, it didn't have to be - maybe the Christmas curse of shop 'til you drop?

Anyway, Mothership wasn't needed, TSRTS DVD Collectors Edition packaging is terrible, TSRTS Song Track editing was shoddy, iPOD catalog rushed out, digital download - ehh?

All this rush of Zep stuff - for what?

I don't believe they did it for the cash flow. So why?

THEY don't need the cash flow. Atlantic Records does with how big a downward spiral the industry is in. So of course, the company's going to go on the cheap and bilk fans who'll buy everything and anything.

And someone asked why use the cardboard sleeves if they can scratch the CDs. And that's exactly why -- to keep you buying the same stuff again and again.

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When I heard about how limited they were in changing this due to legal issues, That was it for me, I'm not gonna bother getting it. Man, they have test footage from prior nights, do they not? Use that in there as extras.

Mothership doesn't interest me, but I see the need to release these things every once in a while to get new fans.

This is settling in, what with the underwhelming re-issue of TSRTS and and this balls-out screw the nuances remastering on the Mothership. All I'm looking forward to is seeing footage of the O2 show.

I think Page has to bite the bullet financially to a degree, buy the Bath 70 footage, and do something with the Japan 71 tapes. Also, he has to create again. He says he has great things to share with the band, he should record and release them with or without the band. I think without, given Plant's stance.

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I think Page has to bite the bullet financially to a degree, buy the Bath 70 footage, and do something with the Japan 71 tapes. Also, he has to create again. He says he has great things to share with the band, he should record and release them with or without the band. I think without, given Plant's stance.

A voice of reason in the wilderness! Yes, absolutely. It would be great from a fan's

perspective if he went into the vault and put together a few more releases. Think

private label, ala The Grateful Dead, and release everything filmed live from 1995-98!

The last thing this world needs is another goddamn reunion tour.

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I agree. The packaging is a little, actually alot, less than what I was hoping for.

The U2 Joshua Tree special edition is pretty awesome. Yes, they are cardboard sleeves that hold the 2 discs and the dvd, but I just put them in jewel cases after their first removal. The set includes the original disc "re-mastered", a disc of all the single "b" sides, plus some studio pieces from TJT sessions, most previously unreleased, AND a professionally shot dvd of the Paris show from the outdoor European JT tour(missing the two opening songs??), PLUS a few extra fun things for the fans... most noteably, a video for a song from the JT that was never released, that fans have been clamoring for(Red Hill Mining Town). A very handsome, nicely bound book, with comments about the sesions from all band members, (except drummer Larry Mullen Jr.----WHY????!!!!!!), producers Eno and Lanois, and others involved in the project, and 4 so-so black and white prints in a nice envelop/sleeve. A very nice job from the band- a quality special edition, appreciated by this fan.

I wish TSRTS Collectors edition was up to par with the U2 one. I'm a large framed guy, and the THIN material Tshirt included is nice-(I'm being polite), but I would have preferred the option of getting an xxl size, verses the xl that was in the edition I purchased, or at least a high quality, thick cotton shirt that doesn't fit me. The T shirt literally reminds me of the bad quality T shirts sold outside venues after a show in the parking lots by unlicensed "vendors".

I guess anything is better than nothing, BUT I wish they had gone the extra mile and really made the special collectors edition a real gem worthy the extra dime spent to purchase it.

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A voice of reason in the wilderness! Yes, absolutely. It would be great from a fan's

perspective if he went into the vault and put together a few more releases. Think

private label, ala The Grateful Dead, and release everything filmed live from 1995-98!

The last thing this world needs is another goddamn reunion tour.

EXACTLY...like Dick's Picks but on DVD

Edited by Wolfman
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Let's put it differently this way:

As an avid Zep collector, I'm highly disappointed. Especially after seeing the U2 packaging. THAT is what rabid collectors want. To slap a "collectors edition" tag on this is the issue. It's far from it.

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The last thing this world needs is another goddamn reunion tour.

I see your point. The only stuff I really like from Page/Plant onstage is when they performed their new music. They'd do a great new song, then perform a Zep song, and it seemed underwhelming to me. WIC was great live., as an example, so was Heart in your Hand.

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Thanks for all the info regarding this release. It really sucks that more time wasn't spent on it to make it a collector's item of lasting value. Still, being the Zep fan and collector that I am, I still plan to purchase it but it's good to know going in what I'm paying for.

I lucked up yesterday and found a copy of The Song Remains the Same soundtrack for $11.34 so I snatched it up (Target also has it onsale for around $12). I haven't had a chance to give it a spin yet but poring over Cameron Crowe's updated liner notes last night took me back to the 70s when I got it on vinyl for Christmas one year.

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A few people have commented why and for reasons I don't understand it has to be the money. Like it or not some of us are older and can't imagine a world where Zeppelin isn't a part of life but many of todays music users have no idea who they are or what they are about. I know a young guy who is a drummer in stomp who has no idea who John Bonham is! It makes sense for them to go for it now, if they are going to stay relevant and keep the merchandise cash cow giving milk they have to do some routine maitinence. In 92 when the boxed set first came out Zeppelin was on every magazine cover everywhere. That stoked the fires for 15 years. Now with the new media they have a chance to reinvigorate their core base and grow it for a new generation. The bummer is I don't think the band fits the ala-cart music mentality of todays music consumer. Zeppelin isn't something I want on my shuffle playlist, I want to sit and bask in the entire record, let it wash over me in waves and discover new things each time. That doesn't happen with an MP3 through earbuds...

Also, blaming the label for flimsy packaging and the re-releases is completely misguided. The band has total control over each release and always has. Nobody can make a move without their publishers approval, and the publishers can't do a thing without the bands approval. The labels hate iTunes because their profit margins are non-existent compared with the physical product a lot of us grew up with. That's where the ringtones, ringbakcs etc. come in. Those things are like printing your own money.

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Zeppelin could not do this reunion show or issue another note of music (old, new or otherwise) and still they would be remember and continue to impact music for time eternal. Sure, reissues, DVDs, reunion shows, etc. put them back in the public eye in a big way but their music will survive without the benefit of any of that.

As for who has final say on packaging, I'm not sure how accurate that is but if it is indeed up to the artists themselves to give final approval, they dropped the ball big fucking time on this one.

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Zeppelin could not do this reunion show or issue another note of music (old, new or otherwise) and still they would be remember and continue to impact music for time eternal. Sure, reissues, DVDs, reunion shows, etc. put them back in the public eye in a big way but their music will survive without the benefit of any of that.

As for who has final say on packaging, I'm not sure how accurate that is but if it is indeed up to the artists themselves to give final approval, they dropped the ball big fucking time on this one.

Generally speaking the artists usually have little to no control over the packaging and marketing of their music. Zeppelin is a highly unusual case in that their original renewal deal with Atlantic gave them total creative control over those things. The only thing i can think of is Warner Bros. owns a piece of the film but I can't see how that would be as the band has always said they paid for it themselves.

I'm with you that they don't ever need to do another thing and they will forever be one of (or in my opinion the) most important bandsin rock but after teaching lessons for so many years I know that without this big new tech push, Zeppelins legacy would be the subject of more shitty rock revisionist history and the reasons they were important forgotten. I used to have kids walk in my office for lessons all day who had no idea who Zeppelin was but they could tell you all about Fallout Boy and All American Rejects. Almost all of them became instant fans once they were exposed to it but if it wasn't on iTunes, it was like it didn't exist. The other thing I always found gratifying was that after exposure to Zeppelin they always felt like the newer pop-rock crap was somehow missing something.

Sorry for the OT rant...

Edited by PJD
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I'm with you that they don't ever need to do another thing and they will forever be one of (or in my opinion the) most important bandsin rock but after teaching lessons for so many years I know that without this big new tech push, Zeppelins legacy would be the subject of more shitty rock revisionist history and the reasons they were important forgotten. I used to have kids walk in my office for lessons all day who had no idea who Zeppelin was but they could tell you all about Fallout Boy and All American Rejects. Almost all of them became instant fans once they were exposed to it but if it wasn't on iTunes, it was like it didn't exist. The other thing I always found gratifying was that after exposure to Zeppelin they always felt like the newer pop-rock crap was somehow missing something.

While I'm sure the release of all their material in a digital format certainly won't hurt them I stand by my belief that Zep would be remembered anyway. Each new generation has discovered them in a different way and I don't see that changing. There's always going to be that friend, uncle, dad, what have you, etc. that has an has old record (no matter the media format) sitting around.

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I know how you feel guys, the grade of cardboard used in the packaging is far more important than the music and film isn't it?

The Package is very important to die hard Led Zeppelin Collectors B)

I am dissapointed as well to spend my hard earned money on this.

Edited by Wolfgang
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of course they will be not only remembered, but still in rotation. Notice how many bands/popular songs of their era have been slipping into the oldies format (much of the Beatles/Stones.Who) while Zep is played back to back w/ todays artists on modern rock stations. ;) They are indeed timeless.

Still does'nt take away from the fact that a band that gave so much of themselves in making sure their shelved product was top notch and ever inventive......From the Zep III pinwheel, to the Physical Graffiti cutouts, to the brown paper wrapper and multi lettered (varying color scemes) series In Through The Out Door.............and now.......to paper thin about to bust at the seams right out of the box cheap dvd sets!!! Sad but true!!!

Not that i even expect to see a "super package"......just something that might last a while if handled with care. That's not the case with this release. I collect all things Zep and expect the new to last at least a little while. I know we live in an age of disposable products, but I'll be damn if I'll let my Zep collection become disposable without a fight. I feel as if I have to keep the discs themselves in Jewel cases and keep the box it came in in storage or else it will fall apart within a year.

Edited by Honeydripper
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While I'm sure the release of all their material in a digital format certainly won't hurt them I stand by my belief that Zep would be remembered anyway. Each new generation has discovered them in a different way and I don't see that changing. There's always going to be that friend, uncle, dad, what have you, etc. that has an has old record (no matter the media format) sitting around.

They really didnt have a choice on the new media. Either get on the buss or get off and be left in yesterday.

Gene Simmons was on the news the other day and stated that because of free-downloading that the record business is going through its final days of death. He stated that college students decided that music should be free and that decision has killed the industry. He also stated there wont be any new Elvis's or Zeppelins like in the old days, mainly due to sites like You Tube.

Considering Zep's contribution to music - its only right they cash in while they can. 50 years from now, they will be remembered, but it will all be pretty much over too. Unless some new comer has the insight and talent to pull it off- in the age of instant news and instant information - its kinda hard to do anything under the cloak of night now.

Welcome to the 21st century! All future stars can now be found on youtube and can self publish on the net. The days of needing a record contract and being backed by a major label with all that capital are gone.

Music is going green, 50 years from now all media will be down - loadable, cd's and dvd's will be found in antique stores.

This is not the end, it is the beginning!

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They really didnt have a choice on the new media. Either get on the buss or get off and be left in yesterday.

Gene Simmons was on the news the other day and stated that because of free-downloading that the record business is going through its final days of death. He stated that college students decided that music should be free and that decision has killed the industry. He also stated there wont be any new Elvis's or Zeppelins like in the old days, mainly due to sites like You Tube.

Considering Zep's contribution to music - its only right they cash in while they can. 50 years from now, they will be remembered, but it will all be pretty much over too. Unless some new comer has the insight and talent to pull it off- in the age of instant news and instant information - its kinda hard to do anything under the cloak of night now.

Welcome to the 21st century! All future stars can now be found on youtube and can self publish on the net. The days of needing a record contract and being backed by a major label with all that capital are gone.

Music is going green, 50 years from now all media will be down - loadable, cd's and dvd's will be found in antique stores.

This is not the end, it is the beginning!

I agree, it is a beginning, but a bitter sweet one....more bitter than sweet. You see, for over 85 yrs the phonograph record has ruled the music medium market. All things on magnetic tape(reel,8-track,cassette) were just riding shotgun. Zep's active status fell 100% under the very end of that market. Then in the mid 80's..just when fans were craving for more Zep than ever before, and the second generation which was by and large bigger than the first also wanted more Zep, the cd's hit the market. Zep was as lucky as it gets time wise to rake up in both mediums. Bands from earlier days that kind of drifted into semi obscurity did'nt get to reep in the money and unit sales that Zep did. They essentially got to sell their entire catelog to the same people twice!! Bands that came after only had the one new medium to sell.

During the whole of the late 80's into the late 90's the record companies put out cd versions of many decades worth of music. And they sold like hotcakes. People needed to replace/rebuy their entire record collections on cd. Their sales were sky high and they acted as if it would never end. Well to their dismay, it has. They can't actually cry about dropping numbers today if they are gonna compare them to their heyday when a all new format replacing vinyl once and for all is introduced. I'm not buying that bullshit! Also new corperate ownership of these record companies meant that people in charge who actually knew about, loved, and deeply cared about music (like Ahmet Ertegun) were being replaced by suits w/ marketing degrees that have no inkling what art is. They ran it according to numbers. Bands started to copy the flavor of the month and before you know it you have 20 bands in the charts that all sound the same. There was no variety. Radio was also taken over by big corperations and no city had it's own musical flavor anymore. Being a big fish in a small pond was out....now to "make it" meant being literally one of a hundred million, rather than 1 in a hundred thousand. They just made it harder for the really good original music to rise to the top. Mtv did'nt help either. Sure, there have always been bubble gum pop stars, but nothing like today. I seriously believe that if people like Janis Joplin, Van Morrison, Joe Cocker, Momma Cass and so many others with incredible talent, yet not exactly eyecandy, were to walk into a record company today, they'd have the door slammed in their face because they don't look the part of what they think sells. Music is afterall supposed to be heard, not seen.

I feel not one ounce of sadness for the dying record companies. I've been on the artists end of the game for over 20 yrs and know exactly how shrewed and crooked they can be. Good riddens I say!!! :wave:

I really hope the net can provide a place for artists to control 100% of everything they do from start to finish. I hope for better times than we are seeing right now...artistically speaking.

Edited by Honeydripper
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