DreamyKnight Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I agree, it is a beginning, but a bitter sweet one....more bitter than sweet. You see, for over 85 yrs the phonograph record has ruled the music medium market. All things on magnetic tape(reel,8-track,cassette) were just riding shotgun. Zep's active status fell 100% under the very end of that market. Then in the mid 80's..just when fans were craving for more Zep than ever before, and the second generation which was by and large bigger than the first also wanted more Zep, the cd's hit the market. Zep was as lucky as it gets time wise to rake up in both mediums. Bands from earlier days that kind of drifted into semi obscurity did'nt get to reep in the money and unit sales that Zep did. They essentially got to sell their entire catelog to the same people twice!! Bands that came after only had the one new medium to sell. During the whole of the late 80's into the late 90's the record companies put out cd versions of many decades worth of music. And they sold like hotcakes. People needed to replace/rebuy their entire record collections on cd. Their sales were sky high and they acted as if it would never end. Well to their dismay, it has. They can't actually cry about dropping numbers today if they are gonna compare them to their heyday when a all new format replacing vinyl once and for all is introduced. I'm not buying that bullshit! Also new corperate ownership of these record companies meant that people in charge who actually knew about, loved, and deeply cared about music (like Ahmet Ertegun) were being replaced by suits w/ marketing degrees that have no inkling what art is. They ran it according to numbers. Bands started to copy the flavor of the month and before you know it you have 20 bands in the charts that all sound the same. There was no variety. Radio was also taken over by big corperations and no city had it's own musical flavor anymore. Being a big fish in a small pond was out....now to "make it" meant being literally one of a hundred million, rather than 1 in a hundred thousand. They just made it harder for the really good original music to rise to the top. Mtv did'nt help either. Sure, there have always been bubble gum pop stars, but nothing like today. I seriously believe that if people like Janis Joplin, Van Morrison, Joe Cocker, Momma Cass and so many others with incredible talent, yet not exactly eyecandy, were to walk into a record company today, they'd have the door slammed in their face because they don't look the part of what they think sells. Music is afterall supposed to be heard, not seen. I feel not one ounce of sadness for the dying record companies. I've been on the artists end of the game for over 20 yrs and know exactly how shrewed and crooked they can be. Good riddens I say!!! I really hope the net can provide a place for artists to control 100% of everything they do from start to finish. I hope for better times than we are seeing right now...artistically speaking. I'm not buying that bullshit! Also new corperate ownership of these record companies meant that people in charge who actually knew about, loved, and deeply cared about music (like Ahmet Ertegun) were being replaced by suits w/ marketing degrees that have no inkling what art is. They ran it according to numbers. This is the new world we live in today friend. It's all about money now and it totally stinks! The only good news is as you said...technology has killed the middle man and good for that. As long as money is connected to music/art it will stink like a skunk! I'm not so happy zep finally sold out - they were an inspiration holding tight as long as they did. But they were forced by the changing times...either accept it or be forgotten. At least now many new generations will have a chance to experience the sound. but not for one second will I ever again think it isnt about money. Considering all I've heard about the quality of the new releases packeging and editing etc... One can't claim to be spiritual and then cash in in the millions...doesnt mix. I really hope the net can provide a place for artists to control 100% of everything they do from start to finish. I hope for better times than we are seeing right now...artistically speaking. This is where it comes full circle-literally-spanning a century of time. The musical artist has been liberated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJD Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 These are all great points and i for one despise the label system but they are necessary for one important reason; they are the bank! Everybody forgets who fronts the money for the tours and recording sessions: the label. While excellent recordings can now be made for short money who is going to foot the bill for a group with real talent to take the show on the road and bring it to the people? Nobody! You can't quit your day job and go for it if there is no money behind you, like it or not. The future is artist controlled music that happens on a regional level. Bands need to get savvy and spend money on great graphic designers to some up with excellent merch and build a sense of community around their bands where people will pay $0.50 for a download or they will stay broke. Music will never be as profitable as it once was and that is something everybody will have to learn to live with. Not just the greedy labels run by suits, but the kid with a guitar and stars in his eyes. And I will say some bands need oversight or they will run amok and make a mess, not every artists' vision is a workable one. There are plenty of great records that were made great by the producers at the wheel, Aerosmith Toys in the Attic and the stuff from that era comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeydripper Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 These are all great points and i for one despise the label system but they are necessary for one important reason; they are the bank! Everybody forgets who fronts the money for the tours and recording sessions: the label. While excellent recordings can now be made for short money who is going to foot the bill for a group with real talent to take the show on the road and bring it to the people? Nobody! You can't quit your day job and go for it if there is no money behind you, like it or not. The future is artist controlled music that happens on a regional level. Bands need to get savvy and spend money on great graphic designers to some up with excellent merch and build a sense of community around their bands where people will pay $0.50 for a download or they will stay broke. Music will never be as profitable as it once was and that is something everybody will have to learn to live with. Not just the greedy labels run by suits, but the kid with a guitar and stars in his eyes. And I will say some bands need oversight or they will run amok and make a mess, not every artists' vision is a workable one. There are plenty of great records that were made great by the producers at the wheel, Aerosmith Toys in the Attic and the stuff from that era comes to mind. maybe not in the big arena type aspect.....but haveing known many bands that were actually better off staying Indie as opposed to the points per unit offered to them by major labels...they decided to keep it all in house. They have toured relentlessly for years and made a very comfortable living. I too was the tour mgr for a East Coast band that did just fine as an Indie. And for a band that really takes to the people...well the people will then decide. It's not like the major labels are pushing tour support funds to bands like Phish or Widespread Panic, yet they have packed them in for years. The labels just want to sell product, that's where they make theirs....the tour is all about making money for the band off the wave of a new product. the bands that do get tour support are the ones who probably have'nt earned their stripes on the road yet. Like one of the numerous made a demo-got signed before anybody outside of their hometown ever heard of them types. It can all be done without record companies. If you build it, they will come! It all comes down to honest qulity music. And it sure would be nice to not have all the bullshit pushed down out throats in the form of a 30 song radio rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I'm not so happy zep finally sold out - they were an inspiration holding tight as long as they did. But they were forced by the changing times...either accept it or be forgotten. Digital medium or not, Led Zeppelin would not be forgotten. Before recorded music tunes were passed along on paper and orally from generation to generation. The same has held true since the advent of recorded music, only the means of doing so has changed. Any music that matters will endure, no matter the changing times, Zeppelin is no different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverVishnu Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 The song does remain the fucking same, yes. How many more times will the Zepp camp try to remaster these shows and then almost completely screw it up? TSRTS is a big blotch on Zepp's immaculate live reputation. I thought maybe the new remaster would fix this, but we find out we're keeping exactly the same video due to mysterious 'copyright issues' and now the audio edits turn out to be shit and the packaging made out of newspaper. Bloody lovely. Gene Simmons was on the news the other day and stated that because of free-downloading that the record business is going through its final days of death. He stated that college students decided that music should be free and that decision has killed the industry. He also stated there wont be any new Elvis's or Zeppelins like in the old days, mainly due to sites like You Tube. Gene Simmons is a douche. I shove this article in his face: http://tinyurl.com/25mbs5 Grr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Action Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Well, like I said in another thread: I'll take the soundtrack cd's, use the unchopped songs that sound great and mix them up into an excellent live cd, using other sources to complete it. By the time I'm done it will be as it should have been. So the cd's will not have been bought in vain- they're just not what we all expected or deserved. Chopping No Quarter is blasphemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodgo Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 Having just today received my copy of the Joshua Tree Box set pictured earlier in the thread, I'm even more furious about the SRTS Collectors Box. The U2 Box is not only cheaper than the SRTS Box it also cheaper than the SRTS BOX & CD set combined, on top of that the Joshua Tree box is outstanding & will last a life time. Hope the Zep Boys enjoy the profits of a box which is to be honest a DISGRACE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solar Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Having just today received my copy of the Joshua Tree Box set pictured earlier in the thread, I'm even more furious about the SRTS Collectors Box. The U2 Box is not only cheaper than the SRTS Box it also cheaper than the SRTS BOX & CD set combined, on top of that the Joshua Tree box is outstanding & will last a life time. Hope the Zep Boys enjoy the profits of a box which is to be honest a DISGRACE!!!! I'm seriously wondering if Warner/Rhino pushed them to finish this sooner than expected to boost fourth-quarter profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeppelinRocks2007 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I totally agree with you Graham. I'm also dissapointed that the DVD movie of TSRTS left out the three most important songs. Plus the concert wasn't filmed in it's entirety. This is why I find the new Remastered audio CD the Soundtrack to TSRTS is much better 'cause that is recorded in it's full entirety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solar Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I totally agree with you Graham. I'm also dissapointed that the DVD movie of TSRTS left out the three most important songs. Plus the concert wasn't filmed in it's entirety. This is why I find the new Remastered audio CD the Soundtrack to TSRTS is much better 'cause that is recorded in it's full entirety. Uh, it's actually a chop job still of the three nights' performances. The audio has been cleaned up on all the songs, but the show is still out of order (namely The Ocean on the first disc when it was an encore) and large segments of songs removed (most notoriously cut is No Quarter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodgo Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 I totally agree with you Graham. I'm also dissapointed that the DVD movie of TSRTS left out the three most important songs. Plus the concert wasn't filmed in it's entirety. This is why I find the new Remastered audio CD the Soundtrack to TSRTS is much better 'cause that is recorded in it's full entirety. I'm with you there, I'll listen to the CD far more than I ever watch the film though I wish they'd included "Thank You" from the last night. I'm really surprised at Zep & solar may have a point about warners rushing it out for Xmas, but I just can't believe how poor this whole release is especially when you consider Page prides himself on quality output, and this certainly doesn't match that criteria either in content or packaging. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Back in 1990, when the first remastered box-set came out, it was like 90 bucks. The packaging was magnificent, and the candy first rate. But at the time, it was a paycheck. I got the Limited Edition of TSRTS for under 30 bucks with shipping. Hell, t-shirts cost that much and I got one included! What Zep fan in their 40s wouldn't pony up 30 bucks for a shirt? It is what it is. I don't know about U2's set, but I don't feel burned. Hell, I paid nearly 3 times that for the Complete Studio Remasters. If I have one complaint about TSRTS revisit, it's the ridiculous flanger on Moby Dick. WTF is that about? I can't suffer that again. Next scene. As for the cut in NQ, it's always been in the film. What could they do? I'll take all those subtleties in SIBLY and Stairway and be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euro Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 The Collectors edition is quickly selling out at retail outlets so at some point it wont be available anymore for people to complain about. It may even become something sought after in time,with flimsly packaging intact of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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