All this over a stupid Teddy Bear...

[Mr. Da-Lo]

That so would not fly were I go.

Hell, Michigan changed the season of girls Basketball because it wasnt at the same time as Boys basketball...

People are going way to far with most of this equality crap.

[Old Scratch]

Kenyan Christians could be subjected to Sharia law

Christian Today :

Raila Odinga, the current frontrunner in the upcoming presidential election in Kenya has promised that he will implement strict Islamic Sharia law if he receives the Muslim vote in the country and is elected president.

A memorandum of understanding (MOU) was signed on 29 August 2007 by Sheikh Abdullahi Abdi, chairman of the National Leaders Forum (Namlef), and Raila Odinga, presidential candidate from the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM).

Despite being signed in late August, the MOU was not made public until 27 November 2007.

However, according to International Christian Concern (ICC) there are in fact two versions of the MOU. Persecution watchdog International Christian Concern claims that a private MOU was signed between Sheikh Abdi and Odinga which is very different from the one presented to the public.

ICC says that in the secret version of the MOU, Odinga, if elected, would “within six months, rewrite the Constitution of Kenya to recognise Sharia as the only true law sanctioned by the Holy Quran for Muslim declared regions”.

Odinga is currently seen as the favourite for the election which takes place on 27 December 2007.

In response to the revelations the Evangelical Alliance of Kenya released a statement in which church leaders said, “In both MOUs, honourable Raila comes across as a presumptive Muslim president bent on forcing Islamic law, religion and culture down the throats of the Kenyan people in total disregard of the Constitutionally guaranteed rights of freedom of worship and equal protection of the law for all Kenyans.”

The chairman of the Evangelical Alliance of Kenya, Rev Dr Wellington Mutiso told ICC, “Kenya should continue to be a secular state. Christians want a level playing ground where [Christians and Muslims] are treated equally.

“We [Kenyan Christians] are opposed to any move at favouring a particular religious group by political parties.”

In addition, the ICC regional manager for Africa, Darara Gubo said, “This agreement made with Muslim leaders undermines the secular nature of Kenya and opens a Pandora’s box of chaos and conflict similar to what happened in Nigeria and Sudan.

“This is not a stand-alone incident; rather, it is part of strategy to Islamize Eastern Africa and the Horn of Africa, through the introduction of Sharia law.”

~666

[JAG]

Dear Mr. Scratch,

As you know I've been following this thread with much interest. I did not want to create a new thread just for this one query.

My younger son (jr. kindergarten) brought home an assignment. He needs to bring a teddy bear for a "Teddy Bear Picnic" party his class is having. He is required to name the teddy bear and will introduce it other pupils.

While he does a few "teddy bears" kicking about he's never assigned them a names (he's not into that sort of stuff).

Long story short, we don't know what hell to name this flea-bitten varmint.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[michaelk]

Who says the teddy bear was stupid? As a big fan of teddy bears, I'm outraged and call upon all teddy bear owners to ASSEMBLE AT THE GATES OF BUCKINGHAM PALACE IN PROTEST.

[Old Scratch]

Dear Mr. Scratch,

As you know I've been following this thread with much interest. I did not want to create a new thread just for this one query.

My younger son (jr. kindergarten) brought home an assignment. He needs to bring a teddy bear for a "Teddy Bear Picnic" party his class is having. He is required to name the teddy bear and will introduce it other pupils.

While he does a few "teddy bears" kicking about he's never assigned them a names (he's not into that sort of stuff).

Long story short, we don't know what hell to name this flea-bitten varmint.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Name Him Ali ibn Abi Talib.

Natch.

~666

[kaztor (slight return)]

The subject of this thread amply points out that some groups of people have way too much time on their hands.

[JAG]

Name Him Ali ibn Abi Talib.

Natch.

~666

Thanks, Mr. Scratch.

It sounds exotic. And, risky.

I thought you were, as a lark, going to suggest something fruity like

"cuddles" or "snuggles" or "POOH!"

Again, many thanks.

Who says the teddy bear was stupid? As a big fan of teddy bears, I'm outraged and call upon all teddy bear owners to ASSEMBLE AT THE GATES OF BUCKINGHAM PALACE IN PROTEST.

If you go out to the palace today

You're sure of a big surprise.

If you go out to the palace today

You'd better go in disguise.

For every bear that ever there was

Will gather there for certain, because

Today's the day the teddy bears have their pro-test.

FIGHT THE POWER!

[Old Scratch]

Robert Spencer: An attempt at generous outreach that, unfortunately, backfires. "Islam: Bush sends Muslims Eid al-Adha greetings," from AKI

Washington, 19 Dec. (AKI) - United States president George W. Bush on Wednesday sent a message of goodwill to Muslims worldwide at the start of the major Muslim Eid al-Adha festival of sacrifice.

"During Eid al-Adha, Muslims around the world reflect on Abraham's unwavering faith and his trust in God when asked to sacrifice his son," Bush said in the message.

"These four days are a time for Muslims to honour Abraham's obedience by celebrating with family and friends and showing gratitude for the many blessings bestowed by God.

"This holiday also helps ensure the important values of compassion and devotion are passed on to future generations," the message continued.

Bush also paid tribute to the role played by Muslims in America, saying they "enriched" multicultural US society.

"The kindness, generosity, and goodwill displayed by American Muslims during this special occasion and throughout the year have contributed to the strength and vitality of our Nation," the message stated.

"May all those observing Eid al-Adha find love and warmth during this joyous holiday. Laura and I send our best wishes for a memorable celebration," the message ended.

Eid al-Adha, which lasts through Saturday, is one of the most important Muslim holidays. It commemorates the Prophet Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son Ishmael to Allah.

"These four days are a time for Muslims to honour Abraham's obedience by celebrating with family and friends and showing gratitude for the many blessings bestowed by God."

"Honor Abraham's obedience." What is said is not always heard the way it is meant. In speaking of Abraham, even when doing so in the context of Eid al-Adha, Bush probably thinks of Genesis 22:15-18, in which Abraham is rewarded for his faith and told he will become a blessing to the nations:

And the angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven, and said, "By myself I have sworn, says the LORD, because you have done this, and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will indeed bless you, and I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore. And your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies, and by your descendants shall all the nations of the earth bless themselves, because you have obeyed my voice."

But when Bush congratulates Muslims on Eid al-Adha and exhorts them to honor Abraham, what does his audience hear? Most Muslims don't read Genesis. When they think of Abraham, they think of Qur'an passages such as (60:4):

There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever, unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone." But not when Abraham said to his father: "I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah." (They prayed): "Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal.

Did you catch that? This verse is saying that Abraham is an "excellent example" (uswa hasana, أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ, a term applied also to Muhammad in 33:21). Abraham is an excellent example to follow when he says to the polytheists that there is "enmity and hatred forever" between him and them, unless they "believe in Allah and Him alone." However, the Qur'an also tells us that he is not an excellent example to follow when he says to his pagan father, "I will pray for forgiveness for thee." Hatred is held up as exemplary; forgiveness is explicitly ruled out.

When Bush tells Muslims to "honor Abraham's obedience," he is thus inadvertently reinforcing a worldview that takes for granted the legitimacy of everlasting enmity and hatred between Muslims and non-Muslims -- and doing so precisely in the context of trying to build bridges between Muslims and non-Muslims. Honor Abraham's obedience, says the President: hate the kuffar.

This demonstrates once again how vitally important it is for Bush, and for the rest of us, to have a detailed understanding of the theological and cultural frame of reference of jihadists and Muslims in general. But for lack of this, not only are statements issued that could have and should have been much more carefully worded, but policy errors keep multiplying.

~666

[Old Scratch]

I'm just wondering where the White House/Bush holiday wishes were for Hindus this past Diwali...?

~666

I suppose you have to pose a global fundamentalist threat before The U.S. Government offers you well-wishes...

[Old Scratch]

Iran: Top cleric says women without veils must die

from AKI

Tehran, 19 Dec. (AKI) - A top Muslim cleric in Iran, Hojatolislam Gholam Reza Hassani said on Wednesday that women in Iran who do not wear the hijab or Muslim headscarf, should die.

"Women who do not respect the hijab and their husbands deserve to die," said Hassani, who leads Friday prayers in the city of Urumieh, in Iranian Azerbaijan.

"I do not understand how these women who do not respect the hijab, 28 years after the birth of the Islamic Republic, are still alive," he said.

"These women and their husbands and their fathers must die," said Hassani, who is the representative of the Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei in eastern Azerbaijan.

~666

[Hermit]

.

Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah Pardons Rape Victim

17 December 2007

Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah has pardoned the victim of a gang rape, whose sentencing

of six months in prison and 200 lashes sparked international condemnation.

Justice minister Abdullah bin Mohammed bin Ibrahim al-Sheikh hailed the king's decision

to grant the pardon in a statement carried by the official Saudi press agency, SPA.

The pardon represents a rare instance in which Saudi rulers have publicly challenged Saudi Arabia's conservative clerics. The victim, who was 18 years old when raped, was attacked at knifepoint by seven men after she was found in a car with a male companion who was not a relative. Under Saudi Arabia's strict interpretation of Islamic Sharia law, women are not allowed in public in the company of men other than their male relatives.

She was initially sentenced to several months in prison and 90 lashes, but her sentence was toughened after she appealed. The seven men convicted of raping her were sentenced from two to nine years in prison. A rape conviction typically carries the death penalty in Saudi Arabia, but justices did not apply it to this case, citing a "lack of witnesses" and the "absence of confessions."

*source*

----------------

How fucked up backward is a system in which a GANG RAPE VICTIM

needs to be pardoned to avoid getting lashed and going to prison?!

'Pardoning' a victim,.. what a "noble" thing for King Abdullah to do.

I do commend him for it though.

..change has to start somewhere.

[zepyep]

Hi all,

I'm just wondering where the White House/Bush holiday wishes were for Hindus this past Diwali...?

~666

I suppose you have to pose a global fundamentalist threat before The U.S. Government offers you well-wishes...

Holiday wishes Old Scratch!

KB

[Old Scratch]

I do commend him for it though.

..change has to start somewhere.

I kind of doubt that bowing to international pressure and playing politics is indicative of any kind of fledgling reform of the fundamental beliefs, culture and practice of Islamic Law.

Unfortunately.

~666

[Old Scratch]

Hi all,

Holiday wishes Old Scratch!

KB

Thanks zepyep

May Sri Lakshmi visit your home and bless you with wealth and happiness.

~A

[Hermit]

I kind of doubt that bowing to international pressure and playing politics is indicative of any kind of fledgling reform of the fundamental beliefs, culture and practice of Islamic Law.

Unfortunately.

~666

You're probably right, Snatch.

I think its still worth acknowledging a step gesture in the right direction.

besides,.. even if its merely a sign that international and political

pressure had an affect on Abdullah.. that's still a good sign... eh?

Today King Abdullah,.. tomorrow maybe Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei!

Well, ok,.. Ayatollah "Kill em all not in burkas" is not likely to change tomorrow.

..or anytime soon. ..or ever.

..but you get my point.

[zepyep]

Hi all,

Thanks zepyep

May Sri Lakshmi visit your home and bless you with wealth and happiness.

~A

Your welcome.

And thanks,I am blessed,no man,nor woman is a failure who has friends.

KB (paraphrasing a movie!)

[Old Scratch]

Thought the British members would like to know -

PRESS BRIEFING:

(The Centre For Social Cohesion)

Islam-is-Peace

18 October 2007

On 24 September, posters stating "Islam is Peace" and "Proud to be a British Muslim" appeared on London buses, London Underground trains and in airports around Britain - the latest phase in a campaign by the group Islam-is-Peace to "address the negative perceptions and stereotypes of Islam and British Muslims," according to the group's website.

But although Islam-is-Peace presents itself as independent, its only known senior members are also prominent figures in the Muslim Association of Britain - a Hamas-linked group whose founder and a chief ideologue have publicly defended Islamic terrorism.

The Centre for Social Cohesion fully supports all efforts to encourage understanding, but is concerned that the Islam-is-Peace campaign's message of tolerance is undermined by the forces controlling it.

DOES THE M.A.B. RUN ISLAM-IS-PEACE?

The public face of Islam-is-Peace is campaign coordinator Yusra Khreegi and spokesman Ihtisham Hibatullah - both also high-profile figures in the Muslim Association of Britain (MAB). Islam-is-Peace's website does not name the group's directors, and the group has refused to name any of its 15-member leadership committee.

In July 2007, Muslims United ran newspaper advertisements calling for Muslims to unite against terrorism and Islamophobia. Khreegi (described as the group's campaign coordinator) wrote a column in The Guardian supporting the campaign. Islam-is-Peace has since claimed the ads as part of its campaign, and a link in Khreegi's Guardian column now takes readers to Islam-is-Peace's website. On 11 October, Khreegi conducted an online Q & A about Islam-is-Peace on www.islamonline.net, a pro-Muslim Brotherhood website, which again named her as the group's campaign coordinator.

Khreegi has previously served in the MAB in senior capacities. She was "research manager" of IslamExpo - a 2006 event partly organised by the MAB on the first anniversary of the 7/7 bombings. In 2004, Khreegi acted as MAB spokeswoman to defend statements by Islamonline's director, Yusuf al-Qaradawi, during his 2004 visit to Britain.

Press releases on Islam-is-Peace issued by the Muslim Council of Britain and the British Muslim Initiative (a MAB offshoot run by Anas Altikriti) name Ihtisham Hibatullah as the group's media contact. Hibatullah is long-time Media Director for the MAB and has also acted as spokesman for the BMI, using the same mobile phone number in all three capacities.

When contacted by The Centre for Social Cohesion, Hibatullah said that the MAB supported but did not direct Islam-is-Peace, and that his own involvement was personally motivated. He refused to name the group's leaders.

On Hibatullah's recommendation, the Centre wrote an email to info@islamispeace.org.uk. An unsigned reply stated that Islam-is-Peace was an all-volunteer organisation but did not address the Centre's specific questions about the group's leaders and relationship with the MAB. Islam-is-Peace did not answer a second email from the Centre re-stating the questions.

M.A.B. LINKS TO EXTREMIST ORGANISATIONS

The MAB is dominated by four men: founder Kamal Helbawy, former president Anas Altikriti, spokesman Azzam Tamimi and former president Mohammed Sawalha - all allegedly involved with the Muslim Brotherhood, including its Palestinian branch, Hamas.

Egyptian-born Kamal Helbawy joined the Muslim Brotherhood at age twelve, and later served as its spokesman in Europe. He founded the MAB in 1997.

Anas Altikriti is the son of Osama Altikriti, leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Iraq.

Azzam Tamimi, a Palestinian, worked as spokesman for the Jordanian Muslim Brotherhood from 1989 to 1992. Ihtisham Hibatullah, the Islam-is-Peace spokesman, has described Tamimi as "one of our leading political thinkers and a leading member of the Association".

Mohammed Sawalha fled the Palestinian territories for Britain in 1990, wanted by Israeli authorities for Hamas activism. From London, he allegedly raised and channelled funds for Hamas until 1993, when Israeli authorities arrested one of his key operatives.

M.A.B. DEFENCE OF ISLAMIC TERRORISM

While the MAB styles itself a voice of moderation and has condemned the 9/11 and 7/7 attacks in Washington, New York and London, its leading members have defended Islamic terrorism elsewhere.

In August 2005 Kamal Helbawy described terrorism by Iraqi, Chechen and Palestinian fighters as a legitimate tactic, saying that suicide bombings were sometimes justified:

"We should make a distinction between people like Bin Laden and Zawahiri who are simply fighting a wrong battle and those people who fight for their freedom and dignity, whether in Palestine, Iraq or Chechnya."

When asked his opinion of former British Prime Minister Tony Blair's remark that suicide bombings were universally wrong, including Israel and the Palestinian territories, Helbawy answered, "Well, he is wrong! It is as simple as that!"

In August 2006, Azzam Tamimi told BBC News 24 that he would like to become a suicide bomber himself: "If I can go to Palestine and sacrifice myself I would do it….It is the straight way to pleasing my God and I would do it if I had the opportunity."

MUSLIM FIRST, BRITISH SECOND

One of the Islam-is-Peace slogans is 'Proud to be a British Muslim'. However, the MAB has stressed that, on the international stage, the first loyalty of Muslims is to other Muslims.

In August 2006, at an event in Manchester entitled "A Call to Humanity", Azzam Tamimi told a crowd of 8,000 that "We are Muslims in Europe, not European Muslims."

Tamimi went on to declare his support for Hamas, identifying himself with the group by referring to it as "we".

At an October 2006 rally outside the American Embassy in London, Tamimi called on his largely Muslim audience to make recovering Jerusalem for Islam their top personal priority:

"We are not here talking about a Palestinian issue. We are talking about an Islamic issue. We are talking about 1.2 billion people around the world for whom beit al-quds [the Islamic holy sites in Jerusalem] is issue number one. We think of it, we dream of it, we live for it and we die for it."

ISLAM-IS-PEACE FUNDING LEVELS

It is unknown how much money Islam-is-Peace has or aims to have at its disposal. It is also unknown where its funds come from. However, a look at its advertising campaign suggests that the minimum that Islam-is-Peace has spent so far is an estimated £164,550 - money the group says comes entirely from donations.

Islam-is-Peace's media campaign began on 6 July 2007 with advertisements appearing in The Guardian and The Metro. These cost a minimum of £8,700 and £28,750 respectively, according to the two newspapers.

The Islam-is-Peace media campaign's second phase began on 24 October and consists of placards in London underground trains and stations, and on buses across the city, for six and four weeks respectively, Hibatullah said. According to CBS Outdoor, the advertising company which Hibatullah said Islam-is-Peace had contracted, this would cost at least £135,800.

Hibatullah said Islam-is-Peace plans to continue the campaign for the next two years and that it was seeking funding from any and all sources, including the government.

According to Islamic Relief, which currently handles donations to Islam-is-Peace, the group has applied for charity status but not yet received it. The Charities Commission said it had not registered Islam-is-Peace, and that it could not disclose information about pending applications.

M.A.B. INVOLVEMENT IN BRITISH POLITICS

Islam-is-Peace presents itself as apolitical. However, the MAB involves itself extensively in British party politics through its support for the Respect Coalition, whose candidates have included former MAB leaders.

In January 2004 Ihtisham Hibatullah addressed the Respect founding convention to offer the MAB's support. That summer Anas Altikriti stood down as president of the MAB to stand as Respect candidate for Yorkshire and Humberside in European Parliamentary elections.

CONCLUSIONS

The Centre for Social Cohesion applauds all efforts to promote peacefulness, tolerance and understanding.

However, the message of Islam-is-Peace seems disingenuous when associated with groups such as the Muslim Association of Britain, whose leaders have shown that they don't truly believe it.

Furthermore, media statements by Islam-is-Peace have couched the group's message in the language of victimhood - a discourse that threatens to entrench rather than ease distrust between Muslims and non-Muslims.

Islam-is-Peace would better serve Muslims - and Britain - if it addressed its message to those who do most damage to Islam's image: the voices of extremist Islam.

~666

[Al Czervik]

If you want to play Super Sleuth, TypeO, here is a thread with many banned members who closely resemble current members. Especially pages 17-19. Their "real" names/letter site were even used by some for closer identification. Happy reading, for those who like to learn Led Zeppelin dot com history.

[jimmie ray]

^ Hey, Al! I don't believe that either "Hermit" or "Old Scratch" live under a different user name, here - but anything is possible. As you claim to live close by me, and seem authentic - I do not believe you to be a returning troublemaker, either. I wouldn't get so caught up in this game, as it serves little purpose - but that's up to you.