Stock Market Meltdown!

[PennyLane]

And Pelosi will point fingers in the morning as opposed to actually do something

Of course. She's not strong leader.

[wanna be drummer]

Most Democrats aren't

[PennyLane]

Most Democrats aren't

Nor Republicans either.

[wanna be drummer]

I agree...to an extent

[PennyLane]

I agree...to an extent

Finally!

[I have got a horsey]

I didn't expect them to fix everything, but fixing ANYTHING would've been a start. Unfortunatekly, they've yet to act in even the most insignifcant ways, so they've fixed absolutely not a damn thing, not one.

So you want the Dems in the senate to clean up the mess after you voted him in to office?

[wanna be drummer]

So you want the Dems in the senate to clean up the mess after you voted him in to office?

What? I'm sorry, it's just worded weird (and I'm still no perfect after last night), and I'm having a hard time getting perhaps, what exactly you meant. "him" as in who? Bush?

Anywho, I want the Democrats to back up their talking. Instead of bitching about Bush and his administration and blaming them for literally everything in the book, they could start by actually attempting to pass their legislation.

[PennyLane]

As of this AM, the Dow is 7512 and the day's not over yet. It may go below 7500 by the time the markets close today.

[eternal light]

Altogether the market has lost between 5,000-6,000 points for the last 52 weeks. Today it even dipped below it's 52 week low.

This volatile market rallied just before it closed up today at 8,046.42, recovering some of it's loss in the past few days, but still far below it's 52 week high of 13,780.11.

Dow Jones Industrial Average

8,046.42 +494.13 +6.54%

Previous Close 7,552.29

Open 7,552.37

Day's High 7,722.89

Day's Low 7,449.38

Volume 228.42 Mil

52 Week High 13,780.11

52 Week Low 7,506.97

http://moneycentral.msn.com/detail/stock_q...ol=%24US%3Aindu

Edited November 21, 2008 by eternal light

[I have got a horsey]

As of this AM, the Dow is 7512 and the day's not over yet. It may go below 7500 by the time the markets close today.

Let it fall. Hopefully it'll fall far enough that Amazon will stop trying to replace books with that piece of Kindle shit.

[PennyLane]

Let it fall. Hopefully it'll fall far enough that Amazon will stop trying to replace books with that piece of Kindle shit.

I take it you have a Kindle. I like mine.

[PennyLane]

My previous prediction was wrong - the Dow is barely over 8,000.

[I have got a horsey]

I take it you have a Kindle. I like mine.

No

I wouldn't let such a disgusting thing into my house.

It's about time people started to wise up to these tech boffins and corporations that consistently try to force dodgy equipment on to us just so they can fatten their wallets.

[Bong-Man]

http://www.freep.com/article/20081203/OPIN.../812030323/1069

DETROIT FREE PRESS EDITORIAL

Hey, America: Detroit's automakers are asking for a loan

December 3, 2008

Can we get something straight between Detroit and the rest of America?

What the auto industry is seeking in Washington is a loan, L-O-A-N , as in something you borrow and then pay back -- with interest.

This is not a gift, a grant or a handout. It's a loan , the kind of thing financial institutions used to do before they all had to scurry to Washington for their own bailouts, which have been far bigger and subjected to considerably less scrutiny than this loan that the auto industry desperately needs to keep operating -- and keep millions of people employed.

The only other time in the storied history of this bedrock industry that one of its companies had to ask Washington for help was in 1979 when Chrysler Corp., teetering on the brink of extinction, sought $1.2 billion in loans. Lee Iacocca's company repaid the loans early -- with a $336-million gain for taxpayers.

Times have changed, sure, and we're talking about a bit more money, even adjusted for inflation. But it's still a loan, a borrowing of needed funds with a promise of repay-plus.

This is not 0% financing, the kind of gimmick General Motors Corp. came up with after Sept. 11, 2001, to help the folks in Washington get the economy rolling again.

Of course, some people may have seen that as an investment in America. Now the country can return the favor. With a LOAN.

[kirchzep27]

I agree with what michael moore has been saying on cable news shows, that wall st. got help, no questions asked and that there is something not right about the auto cos. being questioned and criticized, for help. I dont see the issue of folks arriving in washington in a plane or a car.

Moore said that the govt should have a say in what directions the car makers go in, in regards to economical cars and corporate structure issues and to compete and survive long term.

It is strange how the gov is letting some cos go and helping others.

[PennyLane]

The automakers were bailed out back in the 1980's. Did they change their ways? No, they took the money, ran and still made gas guzzling vehicles. GM is the one that will go under. There will only be the Big 2 left.

[Bong-Man]

The automakers were bailed out back in the 1980's. Did they change their ways? No, they took the money, ran and still made gas guzzling vehicles. GM is the one that will go under. There will only be the Big 2 left.

Five sentences and not one fact in the bunch.

[PennyLane]

Five sentences and not one fact in the bunch.

Chrysler was in trouble back in the 1980's and the government bailed out. Chrysler did pay the gov't back, which is my understanding.

[PennyLane]

Five sentences and not one fact in the bunch.

Here's a quote regarding the 1980's bailout for Chrysler (see anther post by me):

As for the auto industry loan program, backers insisted that it was not a bailout and said the money would be repaid. They noted that a so-called bailout program that provided $1.5 billion in loan guarantees to Chrysler in 1980 turned a $313-million profit for the government.

Here's the links: http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/looki...rysler-bailout/

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/sep/25/business/fi-auto25

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Energyand...oad/87384_1.pdf

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/feb2001/chry-f14.shtml

Edited December 4, 2008 by PennyLane

[Bong-Man]

Here's a quote regarding the 1980's bailout for Chrysler (see anther post by me):

As for the auto industry loan program, backers insisted that it was not a bailout and said the money would be repaid. They noted that a so-called bailout program that provided $1.5 billion in loan guarantees to Chrysler in 1980 turned a $313-million profit for the government.

Here's the links: http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/looki...rysler-bailout/

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/sep/25/business/fi-auto25

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Energyand...oad/87384_1.pdf

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/feb2001/chry-f14.shtml

Penny.....an "s" at the end of a word, in this case "automakers".....usually indicates a plural form meaning more than one. Thus, your post implied that GM and Ford had also previously taken loans or money from the gov't.

You also mentioned that "they" took the money and produced gas guzzlers. Chrysler's comeback was based around the "K" series car, which was a fuel-efficient mid-size car which ended up being quite profitable. The "K" series frame was used on many models, including mini-vans.

The post and links above related to Chrysler, only reiterates information mentioned in the original editorial, which no one is disputing except you, and I can only guess that is because of a direct lack of reading comprehension from your end.

[PennyLane]

Bong Man,

I'm back on line - So shoot me if I left off an "s" at the end of automakers. It's my opinion and you don't have to agree with it. I still think the government should not bail out the Big 3. I still think they won't change nor will they manufacture more smaller, fuel efficient vehicles. I want to see results. The autoworkers are the ones who need the help, not the Big 3. I am betting that there will only be 2 car manufacturers left in the US - Ford and Chrysler and I am sticking with this.

[The Rover]

They have accomplished one thing - gave $700M away with no strings attached and I would not really call that an accomplishment...We taxpayers were conned!

Ahhhhh, IF it was ONLY $700 Million.......

[Rock N' Rollin' Man]

I agree with what michael moore has been saying on cable news shows, that wall st. got help, no questions asked and that there is something not right about the auto cos. being questioned and criticized, for help. I dont see the issue of folks arriving in washington in a plane or a car.

Moore said that the govt should have a say in what directions the car makers go in, in regards to economical cars and corporate structure issues and to compete and survive long term.

It is strange how the gov is letting some cos go and helping others.

Not so strange, in capitalism we have minimal government invovement but with this it's really just which companies are too big to fail.

[wanna be drummer]

You honestly think Chrysler has a better shot at getti9ng through this than GM?

[PennyLane]

I certainly do since Chrysler had hired Jones Day Law Firm weeks ago and probably will do a restructuring of the company. They could be in a better position by restructuring the company. There still maybe a merger between GM and Chrysler. It will be interesting to see if there is a merger and what name will be kept Chrysler or GM.

Edited December 6, 2008 by PennyLane