New singer for Jimmy, JPJ and Jason?

[SuperDave]

Page/Jones/Bonham/Cornell.

(hey, I'm entitled to dream, aren't I?)

Certainly my favorite choice so far. But hasn't he had some vocal problems as of late? Possibly, for putting his voice under so much stress over the years by singing the way he does. Great voice though.

Not like the ridiculous choice of Joe Elliott from Ded Leppard. Someone on this board several months ago, broke his cover. I believe he's a member here, but don't hear much from him anymore.

[Mercurious]

Let's face facts, you know nothing about what they're going to call themselves. Yes, Jimmy would like Robert into the fold, but he's also said recently that a genuine Led Zeppelin tour would need all the members present at the O2. I don't think Jimmy would risk tarnishing the band's legacy by doing otherwise for the sake of selling more tickets. Plenty of people would like to see them anyway.

True, but that doesn't mean he (Jimmy) won't use the name in some way. If they're touring larger venues, the name will be on the ticket in some way, some form, very likely. I don't think there are that many people who are going to buy Jimmy Page, John Paul Jones and Myles Kennedy tickets FOR EXAMPLE.

[slave to zep]

True, but that doesn't mean he (Jimmy) won't use the name in some way. If they're touring larger venues, the name will be on the ticket in some way, some form, very likely. I don't think there are that many people who are going to by Jimmy Page, John Paul Jones and Myles Kennedy tickets for example.

oh yeah???

[Mercurious]

oh yeah???

For me it will depend on whether I like the album or not. Are there 35,000 of us in Minneapolis? In Atlanta? Dallas? Why bet on it -- just use the name IN SOME WAY THAT DOES NOT DISRESPECT OR DISENFRANCHISE ROBERT and they don't have to worry. Sorry, as much as I love Jimmy Page, he's not a household name. The name Robert Plant is better-known.

[ledded1]

For me it will depend on whether I like the album or not. Are there 35,000 of us in Minneapolis? In Atlanta? Dallas? Why bet on it -- just use the name IN SOME WAY THAT DOES NOT DISRESPECT OR DISENFRANCHISE ROBERT and they don't have to worry. Sorry, as much as I love Jimmy Page, he's not a household name. The name Robert Plant is better-known.

Not sure that is clearly the case entirely.

I have been into Zep a few years now and there are still people who don't know who Robert Plant is, some still think I was going to see Robert Plamer in concert.

I would imagine the name Jimmy Page entered a few households when the 02 was made public and on the night also when he caught a bus to Beijing. I think there might have been a few thousand homes around the world that got to hear his name and see him play and what he looked like.

I think too that the people of Japan know Jimmy only too well. remember this isn't just about the USA if they tour. And people here in the UK and Europe know who he is.

I know he is well known in my home

[gemini_man]

I've been waiting for a Zepplin reunion for almost 30 years. If Robert Plant isn't interested I would suggest Ann Wilson from Heart. She sounds as good now as Plant ever did. They play several Zepplin songs during their shows and she is the best rock vocalist around.

[manuforte]

I've been waiting for a Zepplin reunion for almost 30 years. If Robert Plant isn't interested I would suggest Ann Wilson from Heart. She sounds as good now as Plant ever did. They play several Zepplin songs during their shows and she is the best rock vocalist around.

I would be more than happy with Ann Wilson, best suggestion so far Gemini.

[ledded1]

I would be more than happy with Ann Wilson, best suggestion so far Gemini.

She's been mentioned quite a few times through different threads.

I think she would be capable but she won't be the choice

[BUK]

"As much as people like to bash Robert Plant's solo career, Jimmy and John Paul's post-Zep careers have been far less prolific, successful or memorable. Clearly not because of lack of musicianship but more lack of good songwriting partners. I can't remember the last time I heard a song by the Firm or Coverdale-Page. The songs just weren't that good.

In my opinion, there has to be new material and there has to be at least a couple of really good songs, otherwise it could all backfire and they look like old men reliving their past. They need a great singer that can handle the Zep tunes without trying to sound like Robert. He or she hopefully adds something special to the creative process and isn't just singing the songs."

Black&Gold,

Some great points you made. The writing is a key factor in this project. The RP/JP factor in Zep music was/is one of the greatest ever. Robert was the perfect foil for Jimmy's powerful musical themes. They were both hungry absorbers of new sounds and foreign musical rhythms. It was a key factor in keeping Zep fresh throughout.

Their work had a brash playfulness and joy even when the music got heavy. They had a "feel" that expressed itself beyond the notes. I couldn't wait to hear what new sound Jimmy would bring to the table. What new riff he could write that would be a game changer that others would follow. There was an innocence about abducting Eastern melodies back in the day. Now that it's been done, it's hard to go there again; at least on a massive pop scale like Zep did. Although Jimmy was the architect, all four stellar members comprised the Architecture. Besides bringing the "hippy drippy" lyrics, Lord of the Rings references, historical blues themes Robert had a way with "selling" it vocally that none in my opinion have ever had. It's an actor's ability.

Robert had a passion in his voice that goes beyond just singing. Plant was born out of Janice Joplin's crushed passion and Billie Holiday's incredible pain. It was off-putting to some, for sure, but for me it was the icing on the cake. His studder on N'N'N'N'N'Nobody's Fault But Mine; his scat singing on What is and What should Never Be, and all his vocal gymnastics were "sexy" in some orgasmic way. I can't think of one singer today that carries that off without sounding forced or trite. The last guy who could, passed away 11 years ago (Jeff Buckley). As I've said before, I think it has more to do with this age of music, the public's acceptance of that type of expression than it has to do with the capabilities of the singer on the market.

The generation of musical children, that Zep spawned; in particular the ones inspired by Robert, could only copy/mimic the more earnest bombast of his style. Most missed the point. The Viking warrior Robert embodied in the Immigrant song spawned a whole genre of metal seriousness. What they missed entirely was the sexiness of Robert's vocal nakedness. His courage and naivete to to expose himself and be cool in the process. NO BODY does this today.

Maybe it's by contrast alone that Plant/Zep could flourish. From the uptight John Wayne tough guy comes the sexy wailing banshee, that fems it up but is somehow even more male! Robert had a confidence that would broadcast at full volume. In todays world his 70's stage persona is a gay prima dona. Even though our society has "opened" considerably our art has constricted/narrowed in how it relates. As a past revisited he's accepted. Copiers are scorned. Imitators are tossed off as children wearing dady' shoes. I guess it's just a natural course of things.

A lot of who I think are today's best (within the last 15 years or so), (Cornell, Myles, Ian Thornley all have Plant-like facets -that's why I like them) are of a different dimension than Plant's 70's man. They all do angst - extremely well. They all do "personal sensitive" into "overwrought anger" really well. They all "get" the blues in a modern age influenced way. They all hit the operatic wail and dig deep for the personal pain. I think that Blue Train is almost a nod by Robert to the personal pain that today's best seem to do so well.

If you take Alter Bridge as an example. They are musically borne out of a strong love of late 80's metal (Metallica/Slayer) employed in "lighter" pop themes. From a business standpoint they are capitalizing on a market they created with Creed (A Perl Jam sound-alike with spiritual overtones - both loved and hated for the same reasons) and at the same time distancing themselves from it. Big Ballady Journey numbers with Metallica chops and bombast. Myles is bringing them more towards the blues that's in his blood, but he also has a knack for writing the big blustery ballads inspired by none other than Stairway. His songwriting seems very familiar at first listen and can be easily dismissed as tribute until you realize that he has tremendous craft. He can write a catchy melody. He's a top notch player to boot. One of his first incarnations was called Citizen Swing. Myles admittedly cringes at some aspects of his young performance but there are portions that expose some early strengths and only underly his current vehicle AlterBridge.

Listen to Motor Mama and Can't Complain

Citizen Swing: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea...iendid=59971144

He digs the classic R&B and can refer to the 40's swing feel that Jimmy always incorporated into his live repertoire. I think that that is the connect. They all share a reverence for classic Jazz and R&B. It's what MADE Bonham. Myles albiet a generation removed. Having a common musical language when writing is essential to communicate composition.

Myles, by experience, does not necessarily have the vocal playfulness that Robert brought, but I do think he's earnestly passionate enough to "sell it" if given the chance. It's not just about the chops. It's what Steven Tyler has; that over-the-top-jazz-rooted-scat-singing freedom, but he is just over the hill IMHO.

I do GET the idea that Jimmy needs someone to challenge him musically. Myles might be too generic/of today for most. Not exotic enough and Jimmy falls too easily into the sophomoric. I LOVE the Coverdale/Page CD, musically, but it's cringeworthy in moments because of that 80's poser metal mentality that DC falls into. I definitely think that should avoid the 80's altogether.

JpJ is the "Arranger". He takes the pieces and embellishes and augments. He's the glue that will make the new stuff last. He's a riffage/proggey leaning musician's musician, that's as comfortable in R&B as he is in Country music. That's a broad range to be fluent in. His impact will be immeasurable. I look forward to wonderful instrumentation and intricate interplay. I only pray that they don't low-tech the approach. I want layers and deep listening.

Jason needs to crawl out of the box on this one too. Stop trying to fill his Dad's shoes and just be Jason. He shares much more with Myles than he does with his uncles Jimmy and John. I think that will be key in writing in this environment. How open will the old guys be to the "youngster's ideas? Who will challenge who? Who's instincts will win out? How "forward" will the new stuff be? How "backward"? How will our narrow pre-conceptions be? How do you create innocent joyful music when you're a hard worn veteran in a jaded cynical world? This for certain will be interesting.

Sorry for being so typey.

[Knebby]

Some nice thoughts BUK ^

[Adi]

Buk I enjoyed reading every word you wrote...

[leddy]

"As much as people like to bash Robert Plant's solo career, Jimmy and John Paul's post-Zep careers have been far less prolific, successful or memorable. Clearly not because of lack of musicianship but more lack of good songwriting partners. I can't remember the last time I heard a song by the Firm or Coverdale-Page. The songs just weren't that good.

In my opinion, there has to be new material and there has to be at least a couple of really good songs, otherwise it could all backfire and they look like old men reliving their past. They need a great singer that can handle the Zep tunes without trying to sound like Robert. He or she hopefully adds something special to the creative process and isn't just singing the songs."

Black&Gold,

Some great points you made. The writing is a key factor in this project. The RP/JP factor in Zep music was/is one of the greatest ever. Robert was the perfect foil for Jimmy's powerful musical themes. They were both hungry absorbers of new sounds and foreign musical rhythms. It was a key factor in keeping Zep fresh throughout.

Their work had a brash playfulness and joy even when the music got heavy. They had a "feel" that expressed itself beyond the notes. I couldn't wait to hear what new sound Jimmy would bring to the table. What new riff he could write that would be a game changer that others would follow. There was an innocence about abducting Eastern melodies back in the day. Now that it's been done, it's hard to go there again; at least on a massive pop scale like Zep did. Although Jimmy was the architect, all four stellar members comprised the Architecture. Besides bringing the "hippy drippy" lyrics, Lord of the Rings references, historical blues themes Robert had a way with "selling" it vocally that none in my opinion have ever had. It's an actor's ability.

Robert had a passion in his voice that goes beyond just singing. Plant was born out of Janice Joplin's crushed passion and Billie Holiday's incredible pain. It was off-putting to some, for sure, but for me it was the icing on the cake. His studder on N'N'N'N'N'Nobody's Fault But Mine; his scat singing on What is and What should Never Be, and all his vocal gymnastics were "sexy" in some orgasmic way. I can't think of one singer today that carries that off without sounding forced or trite. The last guy who could, passed away 11 years ago (Jeff Buckley). As I've said before, I think it has more to do with this age of music, the public's acceptance of that type of expression than it has to do with the capabilities of the singer on the market.

The generation of musical children, that Zep spawned; in particular the ones inspired by Robert, could only copy/mimic the more earnest bombast of his style. Most missed the point. The Viking warrior Robert embodied in the Immigrant song spawned a whole genre of metal seriousness. What they missed entirely was the sexiness of Robert's vocal nakedness. His courage and naivete to to expose himself and be cool in the process. NO BODY does this today.

Maybe it's by contrast alone that Plant/Zep could flourish. From the uptight John Wayne tough guy comes the sexy wailing banshee, that fems it up but is somehow even more male! Robert had a confidence that would broadcast at full volume. In todays world his 70's stage persona is a gay prima dona. Even though our society has "opened" considerably our art has constricted/narrowed in how it relates. As a past revisited he's accepted. Copiers are scorned. Imitators are tossed off as children wearing dady' shoes. I guess it's just a natural course of things.

A lot of who I think are today's best (within the last 15 years or so), (Cornell, Myles, Ian Thornley all have Plant-like facets -that's why I like them) are of a different dimension than Plant's 70's man. They all do angst - extremely well. They all do "personal sensitive" into "overwrought anger" really well. They all "get" the blues in a modern age influenced way. They all hit the operatic wail and dig deep for the personal pain. I think that Blue Train is almost a nod by Robert to the personal pain that today's best seem to do so well.

If you take Alter Bridge as an example. They are musically borne out of a strong love of late 80's metal (Metallica/Slayer) employed in "lighter" pop themes. From a business standpoint they are capitalizing on a market they created with Creed (A Perl Jam sound-alike with spiritual overtones - both loved and hated for the same reasons) and at the same time distancing themselves from it. Big Ballady Journey numbers with Metallica chops and bombast. Myles is bringing them more towards the blues that's in his blood, but he also has a knack for writing the big blustery ballads inspired by none other than Stairway. His songwriting seems very familiar at first listen and can be easily dismissed as tribute until you realize that he has tremendous craft. He can write a catchy melody. He's a top notch player to boot. One of his first incarnations was called Citizen Swing. Myles admittedly cringes at some aspects of his young performance but there are portions that expose some early strengths and only underly his current vehicle AlterBridge.

Listen to Motor Mama and Can't Complain

Citizen Swing: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea...iendid=59971144

He digs the classic R&B and can refer to the 40's swing feel that Jimmy always incorporated into his live repertoire. I think that that is the connect. They all share a reverence for classic Jazz and R&B. It's what MADE Bonham. Myles albiet a generation removed. Having a common musical language when writing is essential to communicate composition.

Myles, by experience, does not necessarily have the vocal playfulness that Robert brought, but I do think he's earnestly passionate enough to "sell it" if given the chance. It's not just about the chops. It's what Steven Tyler has; that over-the-top-jazz-rooted-scat-singing freedom, but he is just over the hill IMHO.

I do GET the idea that Jimmy needs someone to challenge him musically. Myles might be too generic/of today for most. Not exotic enough and Jimmy falls too easily into the sophomoric. I LOVE the Coverdale/Page CD, musically, but it's cringeworthy in moments because of that 80's poser metal mentality that DC falls into. I definitely think that should avoid the 80's altogether.

JpJ is the "Arranger". He takes the pieces and embellishes and augments. He's the glue that will make the new stuff last. He's a riffage/proggey leaning musician's musician, that's as comfortable in R&B as he is in Country music. That's a broad range to be fluent in. His impact will be immeasurable. I look forward to wonderful instrumentation and intricate interplay. I only pray that they don't low-tech the approach. I want layers and deep listening.

Jason needs to crawl out of the box on this one too. Stop trying to fill his Dad's shoes and just be Jason. He shares much more with Myles than he does with his uncles Jimmy and John. I think that will be key in writing in this environment. How open will the old guys be to the "youngster's ideas? Who will challenge who? Who's instincts will win out? How "forward" will the new stuff be? How "backward"? How will our narrow pre-conceptions be? How do you create innocent joyful music when you're a hard worn veteran in a jaded cynical world? This for certain will be interesting.

Sorry for being so typey.

The most interesting post I have read for along time on here, nice one

[Rorer714]

Damn Buk,you took the words right out of my mouth.How'd you do that?

Awesome post,you typey nut.

That about wraps this thread up.You can close this one Sam

[masszepp]

i heard no reunion (plant not interested?) well i was steaming out to sea yesterday and heard zepp covered by heart so i thought if plant not interested why not asking nancy wilson to fill in she can sing,sing,sing i bet that would work real well. though i prefer rp i think this a great second and the band would make out real well.also i thought her sister would be a nice add?? just a thought.i need a zepp fix baaaaad!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BUK]

Thanks all.

Y'know, just as I finish writing about this Beast/Explosion we all know as Zeppelin I think of 20 more points/examples of other facets of their music. It's really hard to re-combine the parts now that time has moved on. I really dig the try'n though!

PS Think about "Sons of Freedom". I mean what a slice of WTF! THAT's the shit I'm talkin' about. RP doin' David Byrne! It was 10 years past due but really cool!

PPS I didn't even scratched the surface of the "subject material" of WIC/Plant's spiritual leanings in his more mature writing and what another writer might bring to the dark/light aspect of Jimmy/JPJ compositions. I guess my work is not done here.

[beatbo]

"As much as people like to bash Robert Plant's solo career, Jimmy and John Paul's post-Zep careers have been far less prolific, successful or memorable. Clearly not because of lack of musicianship but more lack of good songwriting partners. I can't remember the last time I heard a song by the Firm or Coverdale-Page. The songs just weren't that good.

In my opinion, there has to be new material and there has to be at least a couple of really good songs, otherwise it could all backfire and they look like old men reliving their past. They need a great singer that can handle the Zep tunes without trying to sound like Robert. He or she hopefully adds something special to the creative process and isn't just singing the songs."

~snip~

JpJ is the "Arranger". He takes the pieces and embellishes and augments. He's the glue that will make the new stuff last. He's a riffage/proggey leaning musician's musician, that's as comfortable in R&B as he is in Country music. That's a broad range to be fluent in. His impact will be immeasurable. I look forward to wonderful instrumentation and intricate interplay. I only pray that they don't low-tech the approach. I want layers and deep listening.

~snip~

nice post, buk. i will say that, in my own opinion, JPJ is the ace in the hole here. he's not just an arranger but also a superbly versatile musician who can write a riff with the best of them. "black dog", anyone? i still hear that one on the radio everyday...

if given the chance, he will shine like a diamond onstage next to page. in the studio is where he can really bring things up a notch. layers, indeed...

[TonyV]

I think that will be key in writing in this environment. How open will the old guys be to the "youngster's ideas? Who will challenge who? Who's instincts will win out? How "forward" will the new stuff be? How "backward"? How will our narrow pre-conceptions be? How do you create innocent joyful music when you're a hard worn veteran in a jaded cynical world? This for certain will be interesting.

Thanks BUK for a great read. I agree totally that the key is going to be in the writing. New music is what's going to make this project really interesting and exciting.

[zoso866]

I recently heard that Steven Tyler is considered to be a canidate for replacement for Robert.

I have a friend who is close to Steven and he says the rumor is true.

[estofest]

On a recent 'Legends of Classic Rock blog, two days old, Q 107 reported that Billboard mentioned Myles Kennedy as the front runner right now.

I realize that this isn't new news but Billboard is fairly reliable... right??

[audioservant]

Imogen heap has such a great voice. She was mentioned in this thread and I think it would be great.

Only thing I'm not sure about is her ability to sing with "rock attitude" (looking for the right word here)

It would be worth an experiment...

[pop]

Steven Tyler may be cool if only in the sense that he has less to lose if Robert changes his mind and comes back (which I don't think is out of the question)....we would all feel sorrier for these younger guys if that happened.

I like the idea of a female singer. I have been pulling for Joan Osborne. She's not unused to filling other people's shoes for the fun of it. She sang a lot of Garcia tunes when the surviving members of the Grateful Dead toured for a few years and I'm sure she would find the Zeppelin groove quite comfortable. She has a great rock and soul voice and sounds less operatic than even Anne Wilson. She has great writing ability and is drawn to the spiritual side which would be a bonus as Zeppelin always had something to say about our spiritual/magical side.

Check her out:

Right Hand Man

[ninelives]

Some really poignant thoughts there Buk. Nice post.

[marmorek]

Steven Tyler may be cool if only in the sense that he has less to lose if Robert changes his mind and comes back (which I don't think is out of the question)....we would all feel sorrier for these younger guys if that happened.

Really? I can't think of a better way to improve your career and fame than playing with Page, Jones and Bonham.

[Aquamarine]

PPS I didn't even scratched the surface of the "subject material" of WIC/Plant's spiritual leanings in his more mature writing and what another writer might bring to the dark/light aspect of Jimmy/JPJ compositions. I guess my work is not done here.

Go for it, BUK, this sounds as fascinating as your previous post. Nice work!

[Mercurious]

Not sure that is clearly the case entirely.

I have been into Zep a few years now and there are still people who don't know who Robert Plant is, some still think I was going to see Robert Plamer in concert.

I would imagine the name Jimmy Page entered a few households when the 02 was made public and on the night also when he caught a bus to Beijing. I think there might have been a few thousand homes around the world that got to hear his name and see him play and what he looked like.

I think too that the people of Japan know Jimmy only too well. remember this isn't just about the USA if they tour. And people here in the UK and Europe know who he is.

I know he is well known in my home

Ahh, but if you watched the Beijing performance with Leona Lewis, you know that he was not advertised or introduced simply as Jimmy Page. It was "Jimmy Page from Led Zeppelin." And during the performance all around the world it was "Now here's Jimmy Page ... Led Zeppelin!!!!" As somebody pointed out a page or so ago in this thread, the media's going to call anything Bonham, Jones and Page do Led Zeppelin anyway. So why fight it? Use the name in at very least the subtitle, put it on the ticket, and that's one less PR hassle to deal with.

BUK, great post - especially like your notes on Jonesy, whose importance often gets lost. He's Jimmy's arranger, no doubt, and it's exciting that they are reunited.

One note, however. Connecting Jones with "country" isn't something that can be said from a British rock context. At the end of the day, Jonesy and Pagey have great roots in British folk, also the root of country, but that doesn't make them country. C & W's a strange beast -- folks won't even let Neil Young into the Hall of Twang (he's been trying for 40 years) much less a British rock god, no matter how diverse and good he is.