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Time to move on...


nirvana

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Here's some perspective:

Maureen Plant nearly died, Robert Plant badly injured, Plant and Page children luckily and thankfully not badly physically injured in a car accident. Fans all over the world left holding tickets and worrying (me among them).

Karac Plant died tragically young. Fans all over the world horrified and saddened, left wondering and praying for two years.

John Bonham, father of two, a drummer who was living proof of the saying "without music, life would be a mistake," died unnecessarily at age 32 in sad circumstances. Zeppelin disbands. Fans shocked, stunned, in mourning. This was a real loss to people, you know.

Jimmy, guitarist and producer whose music literally helps people heal, nearly slipped away after. Two decades of him finding his way back to health and smiles seem to be over, to fans' genuine happiness and delight.

The music remains as vibrant as ever.

Meanwhile, Plant can't answer a simple question without being sarcastic, or else, he won't answer because it might impact his current tour. We are all regularly schooled in interviews and even in songs about what is cabaret, what music is "old" and worthless and what music is old but important, why it sucks for people to continue to play music they wrote in the 60s and 70s, but it's great for him to play music they wrote in the 60s and 70s. And so on.

Perhaps a little perspective the other way is called for?

Here's some more perspective.

I lived through all that with the band too.

But I am able to tell the difference between a tragedy or crisis that occurs to my family and friends, and my disappointment regarding the actions of a rock group. I would be ashamed to show up on a psychiatrist's couch explaining I needed closure because Led Zeppelin did not seem to be reforming, when I have friends undergoing surgery and family issues to worry about. This is because I have perspective on the real world. My parents died in the middle of my attempts to get a ticket for the O2, and how much of a shit do you think I gave about that ticket then? I only got one in the end through sheer luck.

There is a difference between the way those tragedies you listed affected the members of the band involved, and the way they affected fans, and if that isn't obvious . . .

And as for telling me that Zeppelin splitting when John died was a real loss to people--I'M at a loss for words. You honestly think I don't fucking know that, that I haven't been a fan since 1969 myself?? But I can still tell the difference between that and a major personal crisis requiring treatment and therapy to achieve closure.

Time to move on, indeed. Oh, and you can have the all-important last word--I'm done with it, and with all the Plant-bashing.

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It's interesting that this time around there seems to be a lot more tension among fans. I guess having the O2 reunion happen gave us a little taste and hope and open the door to all kinds of possibilities. The interesting thing to me is even with the insight from those closest to the different camps anything is still possible...and the O2 reunion was a lucky break in the clouds.

I would love to see what the former members might be able to create together but I'm open to any type of musical enlightenment in what ever form it comes or who ever is involved. I do understand what many have stated that if this project only involved Jimmy Page, John Paul Jones, and Jason Bonham and the "unknown" then why should Robert Plant be hounded with questions but we all can't forget that he is/was so closely linked to the former members of Led Zeppelin that it would be like having a baby and not asking the other family members what they thought--it gives a different viewpoint and some perspective. He's the singer and like with Van Halen they did ask David Roth the same types of questions.

I would think if people weren't asking about reunions or about Led Zeppelin then it would be worse because it would mean that part of history has been forgotten...and that's so a strong a part of who all three of the men will continue to become...this story won't end even long after we're all gone on to other things.

I do believe that the Led Zeppelin questions are a form of respect and not many overlook what Robert Plant is doing now...for me its like having your cake and eating it too but then I guess being on a musical diet happens to the best of us...

I did find Robert Plant's comments about the reunion interesting figure the same goes for now but then the part about Led Zeppelin not being about the fans was interesting too:

Robert Plant has said that he would be open to the reunion but is disgusted by the sheer amount of bureaucracy. “The endless paperwork was like nothing I’ve experienced before,” Plant told GQ. “I’ve kept every one of the emails that were exchanged before the concert and I’m thinking of compiling them for a book, which I feel sure would be hailed as a sort of literary version of Spinal Tap… Led Zeppelin’s never been about the fans. We’ve always been about four guys coming together to make thrilling, disturbing rock ‘n’ roll. On our own terms.”

http://www.exclaim.ca/articles/generalarti...&fid1=33666

Maybe the media loves asking Robert Plant the question because he always gives such colorful and charming tongue n' cheek replies...he does seem to be the one doing most of the talkin' B)

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Its not arrogant at all. To repeatedly suggest that it is Robert who has to make the statement and not the people who are actually involved in the project is just bloody ridiculous. It's THEIR project, not his.

It's THEIR project because Robert was off with Alison, leaving them having to continue on their own in the interim. I'm sure they would have preferred he had been involved all this time.

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I would rather them tour with Robert, but if they don't, I agree, it should not be called Led Zeppelin. I am curious what Jimmy is going to come up with if it doesn't work out and have another singer.

I'm confident if JPJ and JP have a new project without Robert, it won't be called Led Zeppelin. Jimmy and JPJ would have more sense and class than that. I'm sure even if Robert was involved using the name Led Zeppelin would have caused quite a bit of discussion among the three without John Bonham. He was 1/4 of that band and not even Jason could truly replace him enough for any new project to be called Led Zeppelin again. The o2 was a one off to pay tribute and raise money for Ahmet's foundation, so the name was used for recognition and to elevate the cause. Possible new albums and tours would not use the name Zeppelin, at least in my opinion

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Haven't the other three already stated their positions as to what they want to do?

I'd say his avoidance of any definite statements has been pretty eloquent lately. That's as far as I know, and so far I am happy to wait and to see what will happen.

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It's interesting that this time around there seems to be a lot more tension among fans. I guess having the O2 reunion happen gave us a little taste and hope and open the door to all kinds of possibilities. The interesting thing to me is even with the insight from those closest to the different camps anything is still possible...and the O2 reunion was a lucky break in the clouds.

I would love to see what the former members might be able to create together but I'm open to any type of musical enlightenment in what ever form it comes or who ever is involved. I do understand what many have stated that if this project only involved Jimmy Page, John Paul Jones, and Jason Bonham and the "unknown" then why should Robert Plant be hounded with questions but we all can't forget that he is/was so closely linked to the former members of Led Zeppelin that it would be like having a baby and not asking the other family members what they thought--it gives a different viewpoint and some perspective. He's the singer and like with Van Halen they did ask David Roth the same types of questions.

I would think if people weren't asking about reunions or about Led Zeppelin then it would be worse because it would mean that part of history has been forgotten...and that's so a strong a part of who all three of the men will continue to become...this story won't end even long after we're all gone on to other things.

I do believe that the Led Zeppelin questions are a form of respect and not many overlook what Robert Plant is doing now...for me its like having your cake and eating it too but then I guess being on a musical diet happens to the best of us...

I did find Robert Plant's comments about the reunion interesting figure the same goes for now but then the part about Led Zeppelin not being about the fans was interesting too:

Robert Plant has said that he would be open to the reunion but is disgusted by the sheer amount of bureaucracy. “The endless paperwork was like nothing I’ve experienced before,” Plant told GQ. “I’ve kept every one of the emails that were exchanged before the concert and I’m thinking of compiling them for a book, which I feel sure would be hailed as a sort of literary version of Spinal Tap… Led Zeppelin’s never been about the fans. We’ve always been about four guys coming together to make thrilling, disturbing rock ‘n’ roll. On our own terms.”

http://www.exclaim.ca/articles/generalarti...&fid1=33666

Maybe the media loves asking Robert Plant the question because he always gives such colorful and charming tongue n' cheek replies...he does seem to be the one doing most of the talkin' B)

Actually Jimmy and Jonesy both made comments in that interview (which I typed up in its entirety and posted in another thread). It is entirely the spin given by the press which has made the "paperwork" thing such a big deal.

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It's THEIR project because Robert was off with Alison, leaving them having to continue on their own in the interim. I'm sure they would have preferred he had been involved all this time.

It is THEIR project because they are the ones interested in doing it. No matter what Jimmy and JPJ preferred it is still up to them to do something or not. If Jimmy decides to remain inactive as he has for the better part of the last ten years, how is that Robert Plant's fault?

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It's THEIR project because Robert was off with Alison, leaving them having to continue on their own in the interim. I'm sure they would have preferred he had been involved all this time.

Yes, its perfectly obvious that they would rather he had been involved. However - he is not and he never has been. The agreement was a one-off gig for the O2 - any subsequent activity has NOT involved Robert. I therefore don't think it's much of a stretch to expect them to be the ones making announcements about it. Had Robert spilled the beans before they were ready I'm pretty sure none of them would have been too pleased.

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Yes, its perfectly obvious that they would rather he had been involved. However - he is not and he never has been. The agreement was a one-off gig for the O2 - any subsequent activity has NOT involved Robert. I therefore don't think it's much of a stretch to expect them to be the ones making announcements about it. Had Robert spilled the beans before they were ready I'm pretty sure none of them would have been too pleased.

Exactly. I never expected a pronouncement of non-participation by Robert about Led Zeppelin ever. He made that clear December 4th,1980 in the famous band dissolution statement. I was actually surprised he reunited with Jimmy Page for the few years the planets realigned in the 1990's.

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I disagree strongly with this writer. Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones had massive creative input on all the Zeppelin material composed and they have every fucking right to get out and play their own music- new or old.

He's not saying they shouldn't play Zep material as of course Robert has and does but he's saying he feels whatever they do minus Robert, it should not be Led Zeppelin. At least that's how I interpeted it.

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I personally don't understand the clamour for Robert to issue a denial. If the project has nothing to do with him, why should he have to comment on it? Should he also release a statement about not working with Paul Martinez again, or not re-forming the Priory of Brion? If everyone was expected to make statements about what they are NOT intending to do, we'd be neck-deep in them every day.

The only people who should be issuing the statements and thus ending the speculation are those involved in the project. And they obviously have their reasons for not doing so. Its a shame really, that politics plays such a huge part these days in what used to be fun for these guys.

Indeed it is a huge shame. Personally I'm happy to see Jimmy with a renewed sense of interest in getting out there and making some new music. I'm happy JPJ is out there making music. I'm happy Robert is out there making music. Whatever form it ends up - together, apart it's all good. Because the sad alternative is they decide they don't want to perform or record anymore. They gave us as a group a gift beyond words and they've continued to do so in their own ways. I feel beyond grateful for all of it.

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He's not saying they shouldn't play Zep material as of course Robert has and does but he's saying he feels whatever they do minus Robert, it should not be Led Zeppelin. At least that's how I interpeted it.

How can anyone believe Jimmy Page would call this new band Led Zeppelin? I saw the real band and there was only one of those. This isn't the Temptations.

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How can anyone believe Jimmy Page would call this new band Led Zeppelin? I saw the real band and there was only one of those. This isn't the Temptations.

Unfortunately the media are putting a spin on the story making the assumption it'll be Zep minus Plant. Jimmy has already stated Zep is four members and if one isn't there, it can't be.

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Unfortunately the media are putting a spin on the story making the assumption it'll be Zep minus Plant. Jimmy has already stated Zep is four members and if one isn't there, it can't be.

You're right about that Nine Lives. The band members posess something the media doesn't. Class.

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Actually Jimmy and Jonesy both made comments in that interview (which I typed up in its entirety and posted in another thread). It is entirely the spin given by the press which has made the "paperwork" thing such a big deal.

It really does seem like the press is full force on this subject and it seems like top news (at one point I did ponder is this the main news in the music world) but I can understand how it really is big news to have some sparks and smoke and hoping that there is a fire with such a supergroup as Led Zeppelin and god like musicians it's kind of expected--there would hardly ever be a whimper haha

It seems that the media is the one fueling the fire and with more force than in the past.

Also the media is skilled in the selective quoting and wording...

I'm still sorting through all the threads it's amazing how this has affected the Led Zeppelin fan world but it does give everyone something to talk about while bringing the masses back to the music. I have this question and I keep thinking I'll find the answer if I go through all the threads haha

The song still remains the same

Too bad the hologram 3d image of Robert Plant hasn't been invented yet...or cloning for that matter

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I've always believed that Zeppelin as been something akin to a thorn in Robert's side, post-1980. The fact that he's sold his rights to receive royalties from sales of Led Zeppelin's LPs tells me he cut the umbilical cord long ago.

The very few 'reunions' he's participated in have been met with disappointment, and, I personally believe he didn't want JPJ involved in Page Plant, purely because it would've been a bit too close for comfort. Both Live Aid and the Atlantic 40th were one-offs, as was O2, and nothing came of them. They did not reunite in the pure coincedence that they happened to be playing on the same day that Live Aid kicked off or on Atlantic's 40th anniversary. They reunited because of those situations. And if they'd never have happened, I don't think they would've reunited at all.

I think emotionally and mentally he left Zeppelin after Karac died. It probably didn't help that he was away from his little boy because of the band. I imagine he carried a lot of guilt with him. And it's not something that just goes away. I think he was disillusioned during the recording of ITTOD, and I don't think you can really begrudge him that. He lost his son, and with such heavy drug use around, I'm sure what really mattered was already put into perspective - and it wasn't Zeppelin.

The final straw, for lack of a better word, was probably John's passing. They say time's a great healer, but you don't get over losing a friend - never mind your little boy. Led Zeppelin may be the greatest rock band to ever happen to us, but what made our memories special, didn't make his so.

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I've always believed that Zeppelin as been something akin to a thorn in Robert's side, post-1980. The fact that he's sold his rights to receive royalties from sales of Led Zeppelin's LPs tells me he cut the umbilical cord long ago.

The very few 'reunions' he's participated in have been met with disappointment, and, I personally believe he didn't want JPJ involved in Page Plant, purely because it would've been a bit too close for comfort. Both Live Aid and the Atlantic 40th were one-offs, as was O2, and nothing came of them. They did not reunite in the pure coincedence that they happened to be playing on the same day that Live Aid kicked off or on Atlantic's 40th anniversary. They reunited because of those situations. And if they'd never have happened, I don't think they would've reunited at all.

I think emotionally and mentally he left Zeppelin after Karac died. It probably didn't help that he was away from his little boy because of the band. I imagine he carried a lot of guilt with him. And it's not something that just goes away. I think he was disillusioned during the recording of ITTOD, and I don't think you can really begrudge him that. He lost his son, and with such heavy drug use around, I'm sure what really mattered was already put into perspective - and it wasn't Zeppelin.

The final straw, for lack of a better word, was probably John's passing. They say time's a great healer, but you don't get over losing a friend - never mind your little boy. Led Zeppelin may be the greatest rock band to ever happen to us, but what made our memories special, didn't make his so.

I don't see Zep as a thorn in Robert's side at all. I think when the band broke up, Robert made a decision to carry on as a solo artist. In order to establish himself as such, he had to distance himself from the past. My impressions have always been he is and has always been very proud of being a part of that band and working with those musicians. Because he doesn't want to reunite with them as Zep isn't a statement of ill feeling. It's just not where he's at musically.

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I don't see Zep as a thorn in Robert's side at all. I think when the band broke up, Robert made a decision to carry on as a solo artist. In order to establish himself as such, he had to distance himself from the past. My impressions have always been he is and has always been very proud of being a part of that band and working with those musicians. Because he doesn't want to reunite with them as Zep isn't a statement of ill feeling. It's just not where he's at musically.

I get that as well. I just always got the impression that post - 1980 the whole 'will they won't they' with Zeppelin became a thorn in his side. I don't think he has any ill feeling toward them, I just think a lot of tragedies that occured during the time were more than enough to make him disillusioned. Who wouldn't be?

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Life would be so simple if Led Zeppelin's songs had arrived in a milk carton stamped with an expiration date.

But I agree it's a subjective process. So much depends on how he reacts to the music now, not only that he has enjoyed the songs in the past.

If he's excited, then it happens, and he's off and running down the track with the other horses going for the win.

If he yawns and the attempt at a creative process becomes overly labored, he'll immediately glance around for something fun to do to alleviate the boredom.

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Here's some more perspective.

I lived through all that with the band too.

But I am able to tell the difference between a tragedy or crisis that occurs to my family and friends, and my disappointment regarding the actions of a rock group. I would be ashamed to show up on a psychiatrist's couch explaining I needed closure because Led Zeppelin did not seem to be reforming, when I have friends undergoing surgery and family issues to worry about. This is because I have perspective on the real world. My parents died in the middle of my attempts to get a ticket for the O2, and how much of a shit do you think I gave about that ticket then? I only got one in the end through sheer luck.

There is a difference between the way those tragedies you listed affected the members of the band involved, and the way they affected fans, and if that isn't obvious . . .

And as for telling me that Zeppelin splitting when John died was a real loss to people--I'M at a loss for words. You honestly think I don't fucking know that, that I haven't been a fan since 1969 myself?? But I can still tell the difference between that and a major personal crisis requiring treatment and therapy to achieve closure.

Time to move on, indeed. Oh, and you can have the all-important last word--I'm done with it, and with all the Plant-bashing.

Taking this backward... anything remotely negative mentioned in the same breath as Plant is "bashing" to you. If you only want to see hearts and flowers, perhaps you are on the wrong website? There are several Plant only places you can go to have your POV validated by the like-minded.

This is a discussion board. If you have a problem with me wanting to respond in a give-and-take discussion, again, perhaps you are in the wrong place?

Yes, I honestly think you don't fucking know that... because you keep telling people how they are supposed to feel, what feelings are acceptable and what aren't. Apparently you didn't appreciate why this is important to people.

No one's asking for therapy. I would like to see the living band members playing the music I love. Looks like most of them are up for that. Why is that upsetting to you?

BTW, interesting perspective you have on psychological therapy. Do you also think people with broken bones shouldn't go to therapy? People with a bad flu shouldn't seek therapy? Lots of people who need psychiatric help are too arrogant, shallow or maybe ashamed to seek it, which is sad. There's no need to suffer when help is available.

Anyway, therapy isn't everything. Music may be the best thing to help people deal with tragedies in their personal lives - and happy times, too. When was the last funeral or wedding you went to where there was no music?

Musicians and artists who are willing to put their hearts and souls out there find special places in peoples' hearts. I'm really sorry if for some odd reason you can't let others care about artists even if they've never met them in the flesh. But that doesn't change how I feel, or how other people feel.

Do you want me to list the tragedies and difficulties in my personal life too in order to prove I have a clue? My personal misfortunes start at the age of four; trust me, that is a diffucult age to learn to cope with trauma, and yes my therapist helped me a lot with that sticky wicket, may god bless her. My parents have been dead for over 20 years now, my grandparents for over 40. You have my sympathy in your loss.

You told me I had to get perspective, so I gave you my perspective. It's not just mine, of course, the story of Zeppelin is very compelling to many people. I'm not ashamed to be one of them.

Congratulations on your luck in having someone give you a ticket. I hope attending the concert helped you cope with your terrible loss.

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^ Your biggest "personal misfortune" is your horrible online personna, but of course you won't be reading this so I'm sure I'm wasting my words there.

I totally undersood you Aqua, and whatsmore, agreed with you. Wonder what old ray-of-sunshine will put that down to, eh?

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I've always believed that Zeppelin as been something akin to a thorn in Robert's side, post-1980. The fact that he's sold his rights to receive royalties from sales of Led Zeppelin's LPs tells me he cut the umbilical cord long ago.

The very few 'reunions' he's participated in have been met with disappointment, and, I personally believe he didn't want JPJ involved in Page Plant, purely because it would've been a bit too close for comfort. Both Live Aid and the Atlantic 40th were one-offs, as was O2, and nothing came of them. They did not reunite in the pure coincedence that they happened to be playing on the same day that Live Aid kicked off or on Atlantic's 40th anniversary. They reunited because of those situations. And if they'd never have happened, I don't think they would've reunited at all.

I think emotionally and mentally he left Zeppelin after Karac died. It probably didn't help that he was away from his little boy because of the band. I imagine he carried a lot of guilt with him. And it's not something that just goes away. I think he was disillusioned during the recording of ITTOD, and I don't think you can really begrudge him that. He lost his son, and with such heavy drug use around, I'm sure what really mattered was already put into perspective - and it wasn't Zeppelin.

The final straw, for lack of a better word, was probably John's passing. They say time's a great healer, but you don't get over losing a friend - never mind your little boy. Led Zeppelin may be the greatest rock band to ever happen to us, but what made our memories special, didn't make his so.

Very well said

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Life would be so simple if Led Zeppelin's songs had arrived in a milk carton stamped with an expiration date.

But I agree it's a subjective process. So much depends on how he reacts to the music now, not only that he has enjoyed the songs in the past.

If he's excited, then it happens, and he's off and running down the track with the other horses going for the win.

If he yawns and the attempt at a creative process becomes overly labored, he'll immediately glance around for something fun to do to alleviate the boredom.

For me, nothing depends on how he reacts. I don't care if he's with the others or not.

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