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danelectro59

Presidential Debate

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The issues were the current financial situation and the how to handle

the current war and beyond.

1. The fiscal situation they both did not sparkle

you have to believe they both have smart advisers to help in this situation.

2. As far as the war, McCain has the experience and Obama does not.

Obama kept on agreeing with McCain's answers all thru out the debate.

Both well spoken, McCain showed more general knowledge of life

reason, he has lived longer and has dealt with many of these issues before.

Obama would be on the job training.

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It's pretty much either you want 4 more years of the same or 4 years of the unknown. For me, the last 8 years have sucked as far as my personal career. I had worked 14 years in the medical field in a service capacity. Technology and outsourcing killed my career. Now I work for the government, a union job, and will vote democratic, not that I agree with all they stand for, but know that for me, Republicans hate unions. Plus I think this war is bullshit.........

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McCain won on Russia hands down. Economically, I think Obama probably had the upper hand, although McCain did a semi-decent job. I couldn't watch it live (school shit to take care of) so all I've seen is those two questions on youtube

Anyone know where I can find the whole thing?

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Economny

They both do not want any part of this economy struggle. So they both avoided making bold statements. But McCain's wastefull spending in D.C. will fly further than Barry Obama socialist plan.

Obama hates the plan because its a Bush Plan.

McCain hates it because it a bad plan.

They won't support it until it's passed.

Military.

McCain can run a war if need too. Obama not at all. Obama will side on peace more, which will fly further with voters. The problem every single terrorist knows Obama will negotiate, but will not back any thing up of what he said. McCain will.

Overall

So I would say Obama has a more of a plan than McCain(not better but bigger), but McCain pointed out the best part of his plan better than Obama, and pointed out the worst better than Obama.

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Four years of the unknown could turn out to be even worse? I guess its a gamble either way. I cant believe we landed here. With these two. Have to ask, are we safer with McCain or Obama? Which one is more likely to "fix" the economy? And the health care system? Neither can perform miracles in my opinion on the economic front or the medical situation. But I do think McCain may be the better choice from a military aspect. I am a Democrat and have always voted party. After voting against Bush in the last two I never dreamed I would consider crossing party lines. But I am considering it very strongly now. But I am also considering sitting it out. Let the chips fall where they may, and pray that there are better options in four years if I live to see it. I have strong doubts about both VP choices also. The entire thing is a mess. I would rather have Bill Clinton because he is smart. And so is Hillary. But that is a done deal. For now anyway. I do think its going to be close. Very close. Unless one makes an unforseen blunder before election day. Too bad they just cant all get along but as we saw today, its still all about party and winning. What has to happen to change this?

Of course it's about winning. You expect them to work as hard as they do to NOT get elected? Why would they just roll over and take a loss when they can fight for the biggest victory in the country? That makes NO sense

Edited by wanna be drummer

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It makes sense to try and come to a solution that will ultimately help the average people in this country and put aside polotics for a change. That is what Im saying. And this 700 Billion dollar bail out or whatever you wish to call it is just one example of the need to win the fight and get the credit. Put the people on the front burner for a change instead of just trying to win a damn election. I know it isnt going to happen, but it would be nice if they could find common ground for the good of the nation.

Yeah, Congress needs to work together right now. But not presidential candidates. They are essentially polar opposites and both believes his policies to be key to solving the nation's problems. Thus, compromising their ideals means a compromise in their character which we cannot have. We need a strong leader, someone who can pull this country together. They can't do that by coming together or something, not in a presidential race.

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McCain won on Russia hands down. Economically, I think Obama probably had the upper hand, although McCain did a semi-decent job. I couldn't watch it live (school shit to take care of) so all I've seen is those two questions on youtube

Anyone know where I can find the whole thing?

Well it's almost over now, but for future reference, CNN always replays it's broadcasting, and with the debates, the same thing. The post debate discussions will be on again tonight if you are interested.

I thought the debate was rather flat, but if it's clear, what has been said to the point of exhaustion. If you want 4 more years of Bush, McCain is your man. If you want a new direction, with a focus on issues facing the middle class, Obama is your man. On the war/Foreign Policy, Obama has the best person on his team with Joe Biden (who interestingly, when asked about the debates in the CNN post discussion, said McCain's judgements on the war are bad ones).

On the Economy, it's a no brainer. Who got us to where we are today? Repubs... Who will make policies that will NOT support the rich, but will help the middle class? That's all i need to know. Even if i were rich, i would still want more equality in this country. Better Education. Health care for all (not on McCains agenda, but with his plan, we will all be paying EVEN MORE for healthcare). This list goes on and the point is the same. Middle class or mega bucks? Who do you favor.

oh and then there's the biggest lapse in judgement McCain has shown, i won't mention that name (but can't wait until next Thursday when she's exposed as a dummy in the debate with Senator Biden).

On a last note, i was surprised McCain even showed up, lol. Good for you McCain, prioritiziation!

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Well it's almost over now, but for future reference, CNN always replays it's broadcasting, and with the debates, the same thing. The post debate discussions will be on again tonight if you are interested.
I didn't want to just watch the last glimpse of it :P

It'll be everywhere by tomorow, I'm not worried about that

I thought the debate was rather flat, but if it's clear, what has been said to the point of exhaustion. If you want 4 more years of Bush, McCain is your man. If you want a new direction, with a focus on issues facing the middle class, Obama is your man. On the war/Foreign Policy, Obama has the best person on his team with Joe Biden (who interestingly, when asked about the debates in the CNN post discussion, said McCain's judgements on the war are bad ones).

I disagree. McCain is the candidate for strong foreign policy. Obama is the man for anyone who wants to start heading into a more leftist nation with more government regulation.

Ron Paul was for the middle class. We, however, like to screw ourselves over by picking the wrong people every time

On the Economy, it's a no brainer. Who got us to where we are today? Repubs... Who will make policies that will NOT support the rich, but will help the middle class? That's all i need to know. Even if i were rich, i would still want more equality in this country. Better Education. Health care for all (not on McCains agenda, but with his plan, we will all be paying EVEN MORE for healthcare). This list goes on and the point is the same. Middle class or mega bucks? Who do you favor.

The economic crisis is a hell of a lot more complex than just "Republicans did it". :rolleyes:

On health care, i want everyone covered too...but they need to do it themselves. They have the tools, not use them. Take some responsibility.

On equality, I agree.

On better education, I also agree. But throwing more education responsibility on the government is not the answer. The government has already proven itself a failure in terms of education, look at where we are today.

See, mose people in this country want exactly the same things. But it's in the means of getting things acheived that we have problems. Nobody wants any sort of unemployment in this country. Nobody wants a World War III. Everyone wants their kid to have a good education. Everyone wants to be able to go to a doctor without having to pay $XXXX. But it's how we get to that point that separates us and always will.

Oh well

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I thought McCain's inability to look at Obama ONCE was rude, disrespectful and arrogant. Even at the end, when shaking his hand, he wouldn't look at him.

debate_reportcard.jpg

Even the talking heads on TV were talking about how McCain wouldn't acknowledge Obama's existence at all by looking at him. It was if, in his mind, he wasn't even there. I've always thought that body language and overall demeanor play a part in rating how a particular candidate does during a debate. In this case, McCain gets a negative from me on that point.

Overall, Obama won. Not by a knockout, but I felt he held his own. In the wake of this disastrous week for McCain, he basically needed to rip Obama a new asshole, spleen and intestinal tract to win, and he didn't. He was channeling Richard Nixon circa 1960 and it showed. He was off-balance at times, a little rambly and seemingly angry. I felt Obama was weak in some spots, but I feel he'll shore them up before debate #2. I was pleased to see he worked on the "ums" and "ahs" before the debate, but I'd much rather hear him say that while formulating his answer instead of saying nothing at all. The latter implies you don't have the answer while the former implies you do and you're just trying to word it properly.

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When it comes to these things, politicians are puppets on a string. Saying what they are told to say and try to escape without looking too stupid to put it bluntly. Who in the hell would want that job anyway? No sleep, constant non stop criticism, and having to worry that some fanatic is going to take a shot at you. And with the state of the world with all its problems with the war, gas and economy, how can the next president come out of this mess looking as though he did a good job? The odds are stacked against whoever does get this thankless job. As an american I sure hope I turn out to be wrong though.

:rolleyes: Sounds like my life before the divorce <_<

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A clear McCain victory. I believe Obama even said, "I agree" with John McCain something like eight times.

McCain could have attacked Obama more on the economy/domestic issues, however he really smacked Obama down on foreign policy and the issue of Iran. The best part was when Obama was fumbling to try and explain how was now trying to redefine "pre-conditions" and how Obama would sit down with Amedinejahd. McCain said, " so if Amedinejahd says he's going to wipe Israel of the map --- what are you going to say 'no you won't.'"

McCain made Obama look like the empty suit he really is.

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A clear McCain victory. I believe Obama even said, "I agree" with John McCain something like eight times.

McCain could have attacked Obama more on the economy/domestic issues, however he really smacked Obama down on foreign policy and the issue of Iran. The best part was when Obama was fumbling to try and explain how was now trying to redefine "pre-conditions" and how Obama would sit down with Amedinejahd. McCain said, " so if Amedinejahd says he's going to wipe Israel of the map --- what are you going to say 'no you won't.'"

McCain made Obama look like the empty suit he really is.

McCain is going to get crushed in the election .The type of socialism you people in USA practice is losing steam. The borrow,spend and cut taxes agenda has left the ATM machine empty so nevermind Israel(they can take care of themselves) and start putting your own house in order

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The issues were the current financial situation and the how to handle

the current war and beyond.

1. The fiscal situation they both did not sparkle

you have to believe they both have smart advisers to help in this situation.

2. As far as the war, McCain has the experience and Obama does not.

Obama kept on agreeing with McCain's answers all thru out the debate.

Both well spoken, McCain showed more general knowledge of life

reason, he has lived longer and has dealt with many of these issues before.

Obama would be on the job training.

What war experience does McCain have? He was in captivity for much of the the Vietnam war. He has a voting history, and thats about it.

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A clear McCain victory. I believe Obama even said, "I agree" with John McCain something like eight times.

McCain could have attacked Obama more on the economy/domestic issues, however he really smacked Obama down on foreign policy and the issue of Iran. The best part was when Obama was fumbling to try and explain how was now trying to redefine "pre-conditions" and how Obama would sit down with Amedinejahd. McCain said, " so if Amedinejahd says he's going to wipe Israel of the map --- what are you going to say 'no you won't.'"

McCain made Obama look like the empty suit he really is.

Were you watching to the same debate as I was?

McCain's condescending attitude showed a lack of poise, and a clear plan. How many times did Obama have to correct McCain for manipulating the facts. Pretty much the clear Republican route.

Keep thinking McCain won smart guy.

Edited by electricmage

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Were you watching to the same debate as I was?

McCain's condescending attitude showed a lack of poise, and a clear plan. How many times did Obama have to correct McCain for manipulating the facts. Pretty much the clear Republican route.

Keep thinking McCain won smart guy.

Yes, anyone who thinks McCain 'clearly' won is obviously biased. If you take an unbiased approach to the debate I'd say it was more of a wash. McCain came across as forceful and confident, Obama came off as calm and confident. McCain also came off as a bit of a bully since he used more than his share of time on rebuttal and rudely overspoke Obama when he tried to get his rebuttals in. Obama basically rolled his eyes at one point and said next question because he was aware that the time for the previous question had elapsed and McCain had wasted time be repeating the same soundbites over and over.

Obama came off very well however, he will need to become a little more 'rude' in the next debate if only to get a word in. It's not his nature to be rude, he is way more diplomatic so I can see why this would be more difficult for him.

McCain was clearing condecending. If one thinks repeated saying "He doesn't know, he is niave, and he doesn't understand' are adding any value to the discussions I'm amazed. The fact that he REFUSED to even look at Obama much less direct comments toward him as the moderator requested several times shows me a bit about his ethical makeup. He can't disagree while looking someone in the eye? Speaking from a phsycholigical viewpoint I think this might indicate that someone were lying.

OH! Did everyone miss this subtle point?? I don't remember the question but Obama shared his thoughts on it....and then McCain all blustery and forcefully as in disagreement basically restated everything Obama JUST SAID!!! That is when Obama said "He is right" DUH!!

All in all McCain gave a stronger performance than I expected and Obama was the bigger man. It does worry me though because I'm sure Obama is counting on the average voter to have noticed some of these subtle details but I think he gives the American public too much credit. The thing that the non thinking individual will take out of this is McCain repeatedly yelling "He doens't understand" without warrant.

I do believe the next one will go better. Remember, this one was about foreign affairs which is McCains strong point...Obama held his own in an arena where McCain was SUPPOSED to shine!

My 2 cents.

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Good thing you took an unbiased approach to the debate. :rolleyes:

Certainly less biased that "McCain CLEARLY won!" I gave your candidate praise in the areas where I thought he was strong. He surprised me. But please if you disagree with any of the points I made feel free to make your own rebuttal.

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A clear McCain victory. I believe Obama even said, "I agree" with John McCain something like eight times.

McCain could have attacked Obama more on the economy/domestic issues, however he really smacked Obama down on foreign policy and the issue of Iran. The best part was when Obama was fumbling to try and explain how was now trying to redefine "pre-conditions" and how Obama would sit down with Amedinejahd. McCain said, " so if Amedinejahd says he's going to wipe Israel of the map --- what are you going to say 'no you won't.'"

McCain made Obama look like the empty suit he really is.

Well, that's just indicative of the differing rhetorical approaches each candidate took. McCain's approach focused on repetition of "what BO doesn't understand...", name dropping to stress his experience, and often when asked for a response to an issue he didn't deny BO's accusations (ie/ medicare - the $5000 McCain's planoffers to everyone would be taxed) instead tried to pin holes in BO's plan. As was mentioned, body language was an understated (and perhaps still underestimated) communicative aspect that'll haunt McCain in the long run imo. There's a fine line between stating experience and appearing condescending, and I think McCain crossed it. Notice how when McCain would make negative comments after repeating "what BO doesn't understand..." and would refuse to look at BO the test group approval rating went down every time. Simply put, people are tired of, and are no longer duped by, the negative campaign. This was his turf and his supposed political niche and given that he is behind in polls, he ought to have knocked it out of the ball park but that didn't happen.

That said, BO didn't either, but his repetition of "John is right..." wasn't because he was conceding the point. It's part of a rhetorical strategy - a very good one, I might add - in which you acknowledge your opponent's good points because you are not afraid to do so. Why doesn't anyone point out that right after he would say, "John is right..." he pointed out where it could have or could be better??? This approach shows complete confidence in his own policies; he's not insecure in giving credit where due, and secure in amending a policy where necessary. Nuance. McCain may talk about being the man for bipartisan effectiveness, BO showed that he is.

I've heard that BO is very competitive. I have a feeling, given his approach to this debate, that he has an overall strategy for the debates as a whole. I would've loved to see BO trounce McCain in this debate, but the fact that he held his own in areas of McCain's strength works in BO's favour. With each debate I expect that he will appear stronger and stronger still. Again, part of a rhetorical strategy of being seen improving throughout the debates and finishing strongest in the end. People remember most and are most impressed upon by what they've seen or read last.

The Iran exchange cited here once again shows McCain's black/white combative approach, and missing (or willfully ignoring) BO's point that this approach of talks with preconditions has not worked. Not only that, his reductive quip mocks the effectiveness of engaging in talks. Of course BO didn't mean he would concede and agree with corrupt governments, but to have a better grasp of who we're dealing with in the hopes of having better relations and being seen by the rest of the world as a wise leader is simply essential. Better to have preemptive discussions than preemptive strikes, where possible. So for McCain to interpret or spin talks without preconditions that way speaks volumes about his grasping at straws or simply about his misguided approach. "No you won't" might as well be his slogan for the failed approach. More our way or the highway. Utter arrogance.

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It seemed to me McCain was dodging alot of the bulk of some questions by continuely stressing his "maverick" approach to the Senate and his clearical visits to Iraq and Afghanistan. We know John. I smell his campaign is in serious trouble, from all circuits. I like the guy, but whoever has been running his campaign should be castratated for all the decisions made within the last month or so. It'll most likely cost him the election.

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I was impressed but both of them, but particularly by Obama's not backing down on ANYTHING. The more people try to make him look like a dumbass the more he proves them wrong and makes them look like dumbasses. I absolutely can't wait for the other debates.

The healthcare issue is a joke. McCain said he'd rather leave it to the patients and their doctors, but that's actually republican code for "leave it to the insurance companies."

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Well, that's just indicative of the differing rhetorical approaches each candidate took. McCain's approach focused on repetition of "what BO doesn't understand...", name dropping to stress his experience, and often when asked for a response to an issue he didn't deny BO's accusations (ie/ medicare - the $5000 McCain's planoffers to everyone would be taxed) instead tried to pin holes in BO's plan. As was mentioned, body language was an understated (and perhaps still underestimated) communicative aspect that'll haunt McCain in the long run imo. There's a fine line between stating experience and appearing condescending, and I think McCain crossed it. Notice how when McCain would make negative comments after repeating "what BO doesn't understand..." and would refuse to look at BO the test group approval rating went down every time. Simply put, people are tired of, and are no longer duped by, the negative campaign. This was his turf and his supposed political niche and given that he is behind in polls, he ought to have knocked it out of the ball park but that didn't happen.

That said, BO didn't either, but his repetition of "John is right..." wasn't because he was conceding the point. It's part of a rhetorical strategy - a very good one, I might add - in which you acknowledge your opponent's good points because you are not afraid to do so. Why doesn't anyone point out that right after he would say, "John is right..." he pointed out where it could have or could be better??? This approach shows complete confidence in his own policies; he's not insecure in giving credit where due, and secure in amending a policy where necessary. Nuance. McCain may talk about being the man for bipartisan effectiveness, BO showed that he is.

I've heard that BO is very competitive. I have a feeling, given his approach to this debate, that he has an overall strategy for the debates as a whole. I would've loved to see BO trounce McCain in this debate, but the fact that he held his own in areas of McCain's strength works in BO's favour. With each debate I expect that he will appear stronger and stronger still. Again, part of a rhetorical strategy of being seen improving throughout the debates and finishing strongest in the end. People remember most and are most impressed upon by what they've seen or read last.

The Iran exchange cited here once again shows McCain's black/white combative approach, and missing (or willfully ignoring) BO's point that this approach of talks with preconditions has not worked. Not only that, his reductive quip mocks the effectiveness of engaging in talks. Of course BO didn't mean he would concede and agree with corrupt governments, but to have a better grasp of who we're dealing with in the hopes of having better relations and being seen by the rest of the world as a wise leader is simply essential. Better to have preemptive discussions than preemptive strikes, where possible. So for McCain to interpret or spin talks without preconditions that way speaks volumes about his grasping at straws or simply about his misguided approach. "No you won't" might as well be his slogan for the failed approach. More our way or the highway. Utter arrogance.

Nice summary Patrycja, are you a journalist? You have a great ability to perceive finer nuances and pick up on the subtleties that many here are lacking.

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I just watched a replay of the debate (yay Torrents!) and McCain's body language is even worse the second time around. The fact that Jim Lehrer had to tell McCain to look at Obama when addressing him (and he didn't anyway) is embarrassing for a man of McCain's stature. A child knows that when someone is talking to you, or when you're talking to someone.....you look at them. You don't stare off into the distance, or down at a notepad or chuckle to yourself. It's rude. It makes you look like you have no respect for that person whatsoever.

Edit: By the way, did anyone notice how Joe Biden was doing the rounds after the debate, talking to CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC......and Sarah Palin was nowhere in sight? They had Rudy Guiliani discussing McCain's performance in the debate. Where is Sarah Palin and why is the McCain campaign hiding her? Are they that embarrassed or something?

October 2nd looms large and I think they're beginning to see it.

Edited by Electrophile

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I just watched a replay of the debate (yay Torrents!) and McCain's body language is even worse the second time around. The fact that Jim Lehrer had to tell McCain to look at Obama when addressing him (and he didn't anyway) is embarrassing for a man of McCain's stature. A child knows that when someone is talking to you, or when you're talking to someone.....you look at them. You don't stare off into the distance, or down at a notepad or chuckle to yourself. It's rude. It makes you look like you have no respect for that person whatsoever.

Edit: By the way, did anyone notice how Joe Biden was doing the rounds after the debate, talking to CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC......and Sarah Palin was nowhere in sight? They had Rudy Guiliani discussing McCain's performance in the debate. Where is Sarah Palin and why is the McCain campaign hiding her? Are they that embarrassed or something?

October 2nd looms large and I think they're beginning to see it.

I think it was his way of excerising restraint. He must have sore jaws this morning from all the teeth clenching he was doing...frustrated much John? The same old stories are getting boring too. Hey! Obama has a bracelet too! What the hell does that have to do with the issues at hand?! ARGH!

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