Dzldoc Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I agree. It is funny how many times Tom has tried to "moderate" these two, lol. He's a tough one! Lucky for Palin he wasn't the one who interviewed her over Charlie! My take on this: McCain is a crazy old man My take on this: One of these two guys are going to be the leader of the free world Quote
bigstickbonzo Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 (edited) Eventhough McCain faltered slightly in the middle, I feel he took this one easily. Just stop bragging about your hatred for ear marks and porks...you voted for the additional 140billion worth not more than a week ago. Edited to Add: With the town hall atmosphere, it was their only chance at actually detailing substance on issues, especially the economy. But we know better than that. Bounce around and stick to the talking points is all we get. Edited October 8, 2008 by bigstickbonzo Quote
Electrophile Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I think Obama won. McCain looked old, sick and wobbly and had continued difficulty making eye contact with him. At the end, he shoved Cindy at Barack to be a buffer to avoid shaking his hand. Then, while Obama and Michelle were talking to the audience and pressing the flesh, Cindy and Gramps ran off stage. Nice. At this point, McCain needs a miracle to win, which includes but is not limited to the following things: A terrorist attack on US soil again, Obama caught with a live boy/dead girl, or a lone gunman to take Obama out. Barack's campaign is too smart to allow his sizeable lead to vanish in the wind, so no matter how many EV he's projected to win, they're going to keep playing this like he's sitting at 269 and needs one more. This debate, much like the first, was supposed to be McCain's strongsuit and in both debates, he came off old, grumpy and off-balance. That doesn't strike voters as confident especially when you consider he has a mental patient for a running mate. Quote
bigstickbonzo Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I think Obama won. McCain looked old, sick and wobbly and had continued difficulty making eye contact with him. I think both sounded alittle befuddled a few times. Quote
Electrophile Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I think both sounded alittle befuddled a few times. I agree. Barack flubbed a question on foreign policy I thought he should have nailed, but overall......he again came off more confident, knowledgeable and stable than McCain. And again I am flummoxed by how McCain seemingly couldn't make eye contact with Obama. He did a few times, obviously under the threat of bodily harm if he didn't because he got raked across the coals last time for it. At the end, it took him forever to shake his hand. It's not racial or bigoted or discriminatory; I think he just generally has contempt for Obama and loathes having to share a stage with him. Quote
wanna be drummer Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I think McCain won hands down. He was on the offensive. Obama looked whiney. Quote
Electrophile Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 McCain called Obama "That One". That one. He called his opponent and fellow US Senator "that one". Stay classy, Gramps. Quote
wanna be drummer Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Yeah so obviously two words determined the debate. Why must you take the most trivial things and blow them up? Quote
electricmage Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I think McCain won hands down. He was on the offensive. Obama looked whiney. Every single pundit is saying Obama easily won on every topic. McCain's offensive remarks are going to haunt him, as they have been. Were you watching the same debate? Quote
Electrophile Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Yeah so obviously two words determined the debate. Why must you take the most trivial things and blow them up? This is something that not only I noticed, but that the Obama campaign noticed and has commented on as well. Not to mention the 400 people I was watching the debate with, and the fact that all the talking heads on TV picked it up as well. How about the fact McCain wouldn't shake his hand at the end? You think that's trivial? You may not think Obama is sharp on policy which is fine. But this staggering bitchiness McCain exudes during the debates is disrespectful and GASP! people are noticing it. It's what cost McCain the first debate by far, and might cost him this one too. Part of evaluating someone's performance is not just what they say, but how they look when they say it. Shit like this matters to me, and it apparently matters to a lot of other people too. If you don't like what I have to say, put me on ignore and be done with it. I don't take every single post you say and act combative with you. So don't do it to me. Quote
wanna be drummer Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Every single pundit is saying Obama easily won on every topic. McCain's offensive remarks are going to haunt him, as they have been. Were you watching the same debate? Since when do you care what pundits think? This is something that not only I noticed, but that the Obama campaign noticed and has commented on as well. Not to mention the 400 people I was watching the debate with, and the fact that all the talking heads on TV picked it up as well. How about the fact McCain wouldn't shake his hand at the end? You think that's trivial?While you were worried with his manners, I was listening to his policies and answers. You may not think Obama is sharp on policy which is fine. But this staggering bitchiness McCain exudes during the debates is disrespectful and GASP! people are noticing it. It's what cost McCain the first debate by far, and might cost him this one too. Part of evaluating someone's performance is not just what they say, but how they look when they say it. Shit like this matters to me, and it apparently matters to a lot of other people too.Whether or not he shook the mans hand or called Obama "That One" will not determine anything he'd do in the position of POTUS. I don't care about formalities this miniscule If you don't like what I have to say, put me on ignore and be done with it. I don't take every single post you say and act combative with you. So don't do it to me. Let's calm down here. I've never put anyone on ignore and I'm not going to start now. I'm simply giving my opinions as well. Quote
THE FIRST LEDZEP Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Obama came across slightly better tonight, but that's not saying to much. McCain was like a snowball going downhill, as he spoke he came across much better. I would rather have experience then.................. GOD BLESS AMERICA Quote
Electrophile Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 David Gergen just said the following: "Obama can't win, he's black." This was a direct quote. Quote
allthekingshorses Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 David Gergen just said the following: "Obama can't win, he's black." This was a direct quote. wow, did he really? Quote
Electrophile Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 (edited) wow, did he really? Yes. I checked with about 10 other people also watching it just to make sure I wasn't momentarily experiencing an acid trip. All Gergen did was finally vocalize the undercurrent in the GOP base right now. Obama's not like "us". Sarah Palin and John McCain have both been utilizing this rhetoric in their stump speeches. He's not like "you" are, he doesn't see America the way "we" do. What do you think they're really saying? A journalist compared Sarah Palin's recent rally in Florida to the Two Minutes Hate from 1984. Racial epithets were hurled at a black cameraman, someone shouted "kill him" when Palin was talking about Obama (and the Secret Service is in the midst of having a chat with that guy).....this undercurrent is starting to coalesce. Edited October 8, 2008 by Electrophile Quote
Electrophile Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 BTW, African-Americans have overwhelmingly voted Democratic since 1964. Recently-speaking, Clinton/Gore/Kerry all got over 90% of the black vote. So this bullshit that the only reason Obama is leading is because he's black is just that; bullshit. If he was white, he'd still get 90% or more of the black vote. His race has nothing to do with why he's currently projected to win. His race has a lot to do with why MORE African-Americans are registering to vote, but it's not going to take him from 20% to 90%. More like from 90% to 97%. Which is hardly a massive increase. Christ Almightly, if you're going to insinuate he has no business being where he is, could you pick a less staggeringly obvious dumbass reason like his skin color? Quote
allthekingshorses Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Barack won this debate hands down. John McCain started out a bit nervous but got into his own about a third of the way into it. I love the question about what Americans should be asked to sacrifice. Barack nailed it. McCain... not so much. Is healthcare a right or responsibility? Barack nailed it. McCain... not so much. John McCain has lost himself in Rove style tactics. Bomb Bomb Bomb.... Oh man that was good, right after John tried talking about "talking softly" Hah! Loved this debate.. absolutely loved it. Quote
wanna be drummer Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Barack won this debate hands down. John McCain started out a bit nervous but got into his own about a third of the way into it. I love the question about what Americans should be asked to sacrifice. Barack nailed it. McCain... not so much.Barack screwed it up completely in my eyes! He didn't really give a direct answer Is healthcare a right or responsibility? Barack nailed it. McCain... not so much. Johns answer of responsibility was exactly what I wanted, so points for him. John McCain has lost himself in Rove style tactics. Bomb Bomb Bomb.... Oh man that was good, right after John tried talking about "talking softly" Hah! Loved this debate.. absolutely loved it. Obama did a good job of using that against him, but McCain quickly followed up on what he meant then went on the offensive again. Quote
Dzldoc Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 David Gergen just said the following: "Obama can't win, he's black." This was a direct quote. Bill Maher just said on the tonight show that he's really "White" and "Irish" O'bama Quote
Patrycja Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 (edited) The debate format, which I guess is supposed to make the debates more engaging, actually made it very stiff and made the flow of rebuttal very stifling. There were moments when BO seemed caught off guard (when I remember which one I'll post it), but McCain seemed to spend an awful lot of time talking about what his opponent was doing and why it was wrong, misguided. Well, that strategy seems misguided because while during the first debate it was more of a disadvantage to BO (he spent more time having to defend himself against inaccuracies and less time laying out his policies), today BO actually got more time to reiterate clearly those policies. Not to beat a dead horse, but this is a second debate in the context of one of the biggest financial crises in US history. And so given that, now that Palin is finished with her one debate, she has gone on the offensive with the McCain economic policy, right? Nope. Not even his other stated strong suits, experience & foreign policy, were zeroed in on to help a - give the impression they're on the same page and b - to reiterate his policies; repetition for reinforcement. Instead, she talks about BO's association with a home grown terrorist group. Jesus Murphy! That's only helping BO because it seems like they're desperate by going the character assassination route. Not only don't people who are losing their homes not give a shit, but it seems like McCain ticket is skirting the economic issue. That's a two-pronged admission of attacking from weakness. The panelists on CNN who were not sure who they'd vote for - I don't know what debate they were watching, but they seemed a bit spaced out. They said they didn't hear specifics on health care. Really??? That was probably reiterated only about three times. Hopefully the millions watching paid more attention. It's not so much that we should judge McCain on only two words that were said. It's the two words chosen - "That one." Oh. My. God. You could almost feel the air go out of the room for a second, it was really that condescending. Add to that McCain's slight condescension of audience members (I'll bet you never even heard of Fannie & Freddie before this - yikes!), his consistent negative campaign when the time could've been better spent to more clearly outline his own policies, his refusal to shake BO's hand afterward (instead he pointed to his wife when BO had his hand extended), really made him seem pissed off. I think it's killing him that he's so close this time and it's his last chance and he's behind. For someone who kept reiterating that there needs to be a president with a steady/cool hand at the wheel or words to the effect, he certainly didn't show it. McCain was well spoken about his prospective foreign policies (though I do not agree with many of them), and BO had the edge on health care, economy, and personality. I thought the debate was lukewarm but really disagree with those who feel McCain won hands down. It's no surprise if I could I'd vote for BO, so I may be biased in saying I feel he won the debate, but not by a landslide. So let's say it was at best a wash. Still, tie goes to the runner. That makes McCain the runner-up. Edited October 8, 2008 by Patrycja Quote
~tangerine~ Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 David Gergen just said the following: "Obama can't win, he's black." This was a direct quote. Well i know one person who's reason alone is that he would never vote for a black man. So people like him, will vote not on the issues, but out of prejudice. David Gergen is being honest. Maybe shockingly, but it needs to be said. The smear campaign going on is repulsive, and just proves what i have said about the mccain/palin pathetic team all along. They are mean, and not what i expect out of a leader. If they had some real "plans" for helping this country, that is what they would be spending their time talking about. Not bashing Obama. Bill Maher on Leno right now ( i love Bill)! He says "I think Sarah Palin is somebody who Americans have now seen. Competence is like pornography, you know it when you see it. Governor Avon Lady just doesn't pass the smell test"! My dad doesn't think McCain will win, so i hope he is right (he has been right most of my life). Just have to wait it out. Paraphrasing Bill Maher: "McCain is brave, but this is not the middle ages, we need smart people to get us out of this mess". Oh yeah, Obama won the debate and i am glad he defended himself against McCains "low blows" as usual. NEWS FLASH, MR. MCCAIN, many of us do not consider you our "friend" and most of us do not even know you on a friendly basis, so stop calling us YOUR FRIEND. Just Patronizing and phoney, imo. Quote
~tangerine~ Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Bill Maher just said on the tonight show that he's really "White" and "Irish" O'bama Hug me Quote
allthekingshorses Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Barack screwed it up completely in my eyes! He didn't really give a direct answer Johns answer of responsibility was exactly what I wanted, so points for him. Obama did a good job of using that against him, but McCain quickly followed up on what he meant then went on the offensive again. I loved his answer...Barack reminded of how we were all united after 9-11 and we were all willing to do our part. People were ready to be part of something. Ready to serve, ready to get involved. He then mentioned taking responsibility for our own energy consumption. That was basically his answer. Knowing that people wanted to do something and that after 9-11 we saw how willing people are. And Americans are out of control with enery consumption and that was the sacrifice he was talking about. Cut down on your energy consumption. "There is going to be the need for each and every one of us to start thinking about how we use energy." John McCain's answer? "I recommend a spending freeze that -- except for defense, Veterans Affairs, and some other vital programs, we'll just have to have across-the-board freeze." I especially like the "and some other vital programs" Ok, healthcare, I think it's a right... so not much to say there. And on Bombing Iran, I didn't think McCain's reply faired well. He said it in a townhall. Quote
bigstickbonzo Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Matthews just brought up when Obama called out McCain for singing "Bombombomb bomb Iran." That was McCain's biggest slip of the night and Obama nailed it. But again, in terms of what could have been, the whole thing was a failure to enlighten a bewildered nation. For delivering previously stated blurbs here and there and having better camera posterity tonight, McCain won. Quote
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