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I really get headache now for hearing this "holding back" so many times.

Robert WISHED them nothing but SUCCESS, how is that a holding back?

Jimmy, JPJ and Jason are all grown up men and long enough in the music scene, they know what they're doing and THEY are responsible for it.

Yes, now it's time, come on!

How right you are!!!

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You are wrong about Jimmy writing all the songs, look at the credits.

Why waste your life poring over "20 hours of interviews", what is that going to achieve?

Maybe he is playing better because he is not partying.

Jimmy's waiting for what?

Once again , before starting this , lets just all realize that we all have our own interpretations.

I for one will never enter into a cyber debate without knowing that .

And lets also add, that with each discussion , and disagreement , some light is shed on subjects that bring forth new details . We gotta like that part.

This debate has taught us all some new things , which I believe is the beauty of a forum.

So, in answer ----

I am wrong about the song credits, of course Rob was an equal contributor , the reference I made was that it's all JP on guitar , so when I watch another band playing his guitar riff's , it hurts.

Rob's solo career for me always seemed like a great tribute band when they did Zepp numbers.

The vocals were dead on , and that's it .

As for the 20 hours of interviews ( lol ) , well , I didn't say that I was pouring over them , what I meant was that I watched them as they accumulated back in that period. As the years went by the tapes slowly trickled in one by one and it was a living breathing time in life. Not some nerd in his basement repeatedly watching.

I guess what I mean is that it was era , that whole 80's evolution of post-Zepp.

We all know that people play better when they don't party .

Jimmy is waiting for what ??

I think he has rolled out the welcome mat for some time now and Sir Rob has politely declined.

Waiting for a change of heart perhaps.

And now I will reply to Aqua's spirit.

Hey , it's a forum , and I just woke up , had a coffee and started typing here .

It's all in the pursuit of learning more .

Good day to all .

Edited by Zepp-4-Life
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:thanku: Finally someone has put the record straight .Thank you... what you have said is the most accurate statement that I've read here for a-long---long time. Those songs that he performs which were Led zeppelin songs should be now a thing of the past, as he's made it quite clear the led zeppelin days are behind him .from now on if he puts on a gig; it should stand on his own material.All the best Robert with your next new project and thanks for moving on from the past. :thumbsup:

What a ridiculous suggestion. Robert can sing whatever songs he wishes - including his own. There is a big difference between singing songs from your whole career in a manner that you're comfortable with, and hitting the road on the biggest and most anticipated tour of all time with all the stresses, pressures and strife that that brings, whilst not singing anything released after 1979. Whilst as a Zeppelin fan I'd love to see them again, I wouldn't want them to do it if RP's simply going through the motions. Similarly, when I go and see RP in concert, it wouldn't be quite the same without some Zeppelin tunes thrown in, just as I'd hope Jimmy & John will do some when and if they tour.

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Hey, guess what--I'm super pro Page, too. Always have been. And Jones, and Bonham, Sr and Jr. I'm a Zeppelin fan. There's no competition here. But I STILL think your take on what happened in those years is mostly fantasy, and that has nothing to do with Plant being better than Page or vice versa. It's just offbase regarding the dynamics of what was going on.

And yes, again, I've seen all those 80s interviews. And yes, I can almost guarantee I was into Zeppelin before you. ;)

In terms of age and Zepp history , I think that at times , before engaging in a good discussion , it is relevant to know how old a person's fanship is.

Debating with a person that just bought his first studio CD is not going to be the same as a person that grew up listening and buying the music when they were actually sold in stores.

That's why I often enquire , so as to better understand a person's experience.

For the record , I bought HOTH off the rack when it was released and hit the stands.

And before that I already had the previous 4 " albums ". A term long forgotten by many.

35 years later and here I am still wanting more and learning something new everyday.

It's alway good to discuss.

Thanks to the forum.

Cheers

Edited by Zepp-4-Life
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:thanku: Finally someone has put the record straight .Thank you... what you have said is the most accurate statement that I've read here for a-long---long time. Those songs that he performs which were Led zeppelin songs should be now a thing of the past, as he's made it quite clear the led zeppelin days are behind him .from now on if he puts on a gig; it should stand on his own material.All the best Robert with your next new project and thanks for moving on from the past. :thumbsup:

most accurate? do me a favour

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I really get headache now for hearing this "holding back" so many times.

Robert WISHED them nothing but SUCCESS, how is that a holding back?

Jimmy, JPJ and Jason are all grown up men and long enough in the music scene, they know what they're doing and THEY are responsible for it.

Yes, now it's time, come on!

:beer: Agreed!

As a sort of general response to some of the other comments prior, what I don't get is just because Robert has gone in a different direction he's assumed to have lost his I don't know, rock and roll spirit or whatever you want to call it. I think clearly at the 02 and of course with Strange Sensation prior to that, he quite clearly proved he can rock with the best of them. He's interested right now in exploring a different kind of music. That doesn't mean he'll never do more rock or rock inspired stuff. Regardless of whether you like the Raising Sand project, the guy doesn't want to be a one trick pony and why many think it's a bad thing and all he could or should do is sing with Jimmy is ridiculous. It's not about whether his solo stuff holds up against Zep - it's comparing apples and oranges really.

I still don't get why Robert isn't allowed to sing Zep songs in concert but those who have issue with this have no problem with Jimmy playing them and going so far as to take an existing band (Black Crowes) and do nothing but Zep tunes. Mind you I don't care. I think it's great to hear the guys play them in a different way (with whoever they're working with) but I'm not sure how Robert who co-wrote them all can't but everyone else can.

Oh well. Back to some caffeine. :coffee:

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:beer: Agreed!

As a sort of general response to some of the other comments prior, what I don't get is just because Robert has gone in a different direction he's assumed to have lost his I don't know, rock and roll spirit or whatever you want to call it. I think clearly at the 02 and of course with Strange Sensation prior to that, he quite clearly proved he can rock with the best of them. He's interested right now in exploring a different kind of music. That doesn't mean he'll never do more rock or rock inspired stuff. Regardless of whether you like the Raising Sand project, the guy doesn't want to be a one trick pony and why many think it's a bad thing and all he could or should do is sing with Jimmy is ridiculous. It's not about whether his solo stuff holds up against Zep - it's comparing apples and oranges really.

I still don't get why Robert isn't allowed to sing Zep songs in concert but those who have issue with this have no problem with Jimmy playing them and going so far as to take an existing band (Black Crowes) and do nothing but Zep tunes. Mind you I don't care. I think it's great to hear the guys play them in a different way (with whoever they're working with) but I'm not sure how Robert who co-wrote them all can't but everyone else can.

Oh well. Back to some caffeine. :coffee:

Sometimes people around here make you have the need for a double espresso :blink:

Morning Nine L:)

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I still don't get why Robert isn't allowed to sing Zep songs in concert but those who have issue with this have no problem with Jimmy playing them and going so far as to take an existing band (Black Crowes) and do nothing but Zep tunes. Mind you I don't care. I think it's great to hear the guys play them in a different way (with whoever they're working with) but I'm not sure how Robert who co-wrote them all can't but everyone else can.

I think because when Jimmy and Robert were out seperately playing Zep tunes, there may not of been the discussion of possibly reuniting.

Assuming, and this is a big assumption, perhaps Robert and Jimmy did discuss a Zep tour after Robert finished his current gig. If during that time Robert changed his mind while the rest of the band was practicing, with Plant saying he doesn't want to do Zep, while playing Zep tunes with Alison, maybe Jimmy took it personally.

I dunno. I really have a hard time understanding what it may be like when the whole world is dying to see you play only to have one person, a very integral part of the group not wanting to participate.

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So Plant feels happy to sing Zep tunes with some hill billy sort but not Zep??? Very odd, very odd, what about Rainbow fans?, imagine them. Ritchie Blackmores new band beggars belief :blink:

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I really get headache now for hearing this "holding back" so many times.

Robert WISHED them nothing but SUCCESS, how is that a holding back?

Jimmy, JPJ and Jason are all grown up men and long enough in the music scene, they know what they're doing and THEY are responsible for it.

Yes, now it's time, come on!

I don't think Robert is holding them back at all at this point. However, if you read my post, you'll notice my thoughts regarding Unledded and Clarksville. I believe Walking Into Clarksdale to be more of a product that Robert wanted than Jimmy. There's the tension. Also, Robert had his whole band in on that deal. The Record was produced by Robert Plant and Jimmy Page. Led Zeppelin was produced by Jimmy Page. My opinion is that Robert had way too much influence on the music produced by the Plant/Page combo vs Led Zeppelin. David Coverdale did not hold back Jimmy Page on that record. I would have loved to have seen Robert putting vocals to that music. In fact on the Page/Plant tour of 95 I heard Shake My Tree, and it was awesome. I really wonder why Robert couldn't put something out that rocked with Page in the 90's. His Fate of Nations record rocked and that's the last one that has. It's as if he is just not willing to go there. Oh and this article just popped up an hour ago.

The seventh edition of the Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Festival kicked off Friday Oct. 3 in Golden Gate Park with an afternoon of entertainment topped by a performance by the remarkable band that prompted Robert Plant to tell Led Zeppelin and zillions of dollars to take a hike. The former Led Zep lead singer recently announced that he won’t be touring with the band anytime soon — and considering that the guys are in their 60s now, probably ever. But why rehash oldies with Jimmy Page when you can create something new with Buddy Miller every night? So Robert Plant & Alison Krauss will continue with producer-guitarist T Bone Burnett as a touring unit and a recording unit for the forseeable future (Marian Leighton, one of the founders of Rounder Records, confirmed that another RP&AK CD was in the works).

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Just posted this elsewhere and thought it relevant to this discussion.

Robert, if nothing else, is consistent. Even before the O2 show he said (Uncut magazine Nov 2007 interview - sorry no link):

"We need to do one last great show. Because we've done some shows and they've been crap" (Reference to Live Aid, Atlantic 40th and R'n'R Hall of Fame).

When then asked if it went spectactularly well there'd be a temptation to go out on (what he elsewhere described as a "juggernaut") tour, "Not for me. But I can't speak for anyone else"

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If you knew me you'd know I hate this mentality and find it extremely false. That band at the O2 was Led Zeppelin, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. It would not have been Led Zeppelin had anyone else been on the drums. But Jason Bonham was on the drums and only Jason is worthy enough to play drums for Led Zeppelin, and he proved that on December 10, 2007.

Because of that, it is NOT John Bonham's death, but Robert Plant's "no" that keeps me from seeing Led Zeppelin live.

John Bonham is dead. One of the most tragic deaths in music history, to be sure. But Jason Bonham is alive, he's there, and he's quite capable. The FACT is that on December 10, 2007, Led Zeppelin reunited at the O2 arena. It was not a fake version, it was not a cover band, and it was not a tribute band.

It was Led Zeppelin.!!!

I agree it was Led Zeppelin that played last year, makes me wonder why people say it wasn't <_< it was, it said so on the poster and on the stage. I admit it wasn't going to be the same without Bonzo and I guess it wasn't but people sayining it wasn't Zeppelin is just sour grapes !!!

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I think because when Jimmy and Robert were out seperately playing Zep tunes, there may not of been the discussion of possibly reuniting.

Assuming, and this is a big assumption, perhaps Robert and Jimmy did discuss a Zep tour after Robert finished his current gig. If during that time Robert changed his mind while the rest of the band was practicing, with Plant saying he doesn't want to do Zep, while playing Zep tunes with Alison, maybe Jimmy took it personally.

I dunno. I really have a hard time understanding what it may be like when the whole world is dying to see you play only to have one person, a very integral part of the group not wanting to participate.

Robert saying he doesn't want to reunite with Led Zeppelin is not the same as playing a few of those songs as part of his set list. He plays In the Mood which he wrote with Robbie Blunt who's not there - so I sort of view it as the same idea. Robert was part of writing those songs and I still don't see what the issue is if he chooses to include them as part of his set list. His not wanting to play with Zep is not saying he hates the music.

I guess you could look at the other side of your last statement (and I'm sure it's not easy for the other three) and one person wanting to do different things and millions of people being angry and feeling he should do what they want.

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IMHO I expect Allison to dump Robert after the current tour and Robert will go back to being the posing wanker he has been for the last 25 years. Anyone agree?

Robert is already working with musicians in Nashville other than Alison Krauss. He has many friends in Americana music, not just Alison and T Bone. We don't think he is a posing anything. He is viewed as a British gentleman with impeccable manners that is working with our local (very accomplished and underappreciated) musicians, and he has become quite popular in our city. If only ALL of his die-hard Led Zeppelin fans could exhibit the same breeding and class (and 99% of them have). At some point Alison will need to address her Union Station line-up, but I do see her collaborating with RP at some point in the future.

For future reference, we don't use the word "wanker" in the United States much, especially in the South. I know what the word means because I did some graduate work at a British University. If you wish to insult a respected musician in Nashville, which we also tend not to do, you will need to come up with a better word.

:wacko:

Edited by Kentuckygirl
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here is a little more background for those who need perspective. an interview by chuck klosterman published in spin magazine in 2002:

Few will argue that Led Zeppelin didn’t invent heavy metal. One who will, however, is Robert Plant, the golden god who became the archetype for every metal throat who followed. And it’s not just that Plant dismisses the entire genre because it rips him off; he thinks metal bands suck because they don’t rip him off enough. It’s been more than twenty years since John Bonham’s death ended Zeppelin’s epic reign, but Plant’s unrepentance has not waned.

The 53-year-old Brit is touring and has released a solo album, Dreamland, juxtaposing vintage blues and folk with modern trippiness. He remains willing to criticize just about every hard rock band that’s ever existed, and he even took a shot at the very idea of Spin celebrating a musical idiom he clearly hates.

“After you finish this issue about the fucking absurdity of boys trying to be more than what they should be-Conan the Warrior goes on tour, or whatever-come see my new show,” he said at the conclusion of our interview. “Just come along, because it’s such a trip. And when you decide to do an issue about psychedelia, I’ll sit in rocking chair and tell you stories about Janis Joplin and Jim Morrison.”

-Even though most people consider Led Zeppelin to be the creators of heavy metal, you’ve always insisted that Zeppelin weren’t a metal band. So in your mind, what is “heavy metal” and why doesn’t it include Led Zeppelin?

You’ve made a mistake there; you cannot classify anything, anywhere. Classification is a killer. Otherwise, we’re all stuck. It means Mother Love Bone or Linkin Park or Creed will never do anything other than what they’ve already done. Led Zeppelin did lots of different things–working in North Africa, writing songs like “Friends” and “Four Sticks” and “Kashmir”. I can’t imagine “Kashmir” being considered a heavy metal piece. I don’t think “Stairway to Heaven” was very heavy metal. But we were bombastic. We took no prisoners. We took great delight in playing with bands who has the attitude and ego that was so prevalent in America at the time. Everyone was a self-proclaimed star, which was dumbfounding to me. So to turn up the intensity and be truly bombastic-that’s when we just out-heavied everybody.

-But why is it, despite Led Zeppelin being so musically diverse, that most of the bands Zeppelin influenced only picked up on one thing the band did, which was to play loud and heavy? I mean, did you like any of the bands that did that?

Well, I think that some of the Seattle bands glorified in a kind of music John Bonham always called “Deep Sabbath”, which was a conglomerate of English, sketchy, blues-based thud. It was inane and had no mystery to it at all. I know from my escapades with guys from Seattle, and from working with Steve Albini, that this Sabbath style of music-that almost clumsy, plodding, slog metal-just never really sprang out of the speakers or moved into any acoustic area. It was just an aping of the Led Zep thing.

-Well then, you must find it ironic that most people who love your band today also tend to love Black Sabbath.

No, no. I don’t agree. I’ve been playing festivals in Europe for the past year, and I find those audiences want the sensitivity, too. But maybe it’s because I’ve been playing to a lot of Latin people. I played the Isle of Wight Festival last week, and one the songs I did was “Going to California,” because it’s kind of my bag. Now, whether you would call “Going to California” heavy metal, I don’t know; it might be a bit embarrassing at times lyrically, but it did sum up a period of my life when I was 22. And the audience was going absolutely apeshit, and these were punk guys with Mohican haircuts. So I think you’re wrong.

-Maybe so. But it seems that whenever people talk about the dawn of heavy metal, the logic usually goes like this: Black Sabbath created a certain kind of sound that was replicated by British acts and later nu-metal bands, and Led Zeppelin sort of invented the sound and image for groups like Guns N Roses and Aerosmith. Do you disagree with that?

Well, I think the guitarist in Aerosmith makes no attempt to hide his admiration for Jimmy Page, and that’s inherent in a lot of their tracks. Aerosmith are basically a pop group. They write pop songs, and they’re aiming for the charts and Top 40 television. And when you think of the treachery of hard rock-when you think of bands like Bon Jovi, and when you think of…um…what were some of the other hair bands from that era?

-Motley Crue? Ratt?

Yeah, yeah. Those bands were hanging on to some real big pop melodies and dressing them up as something aggressive and boyish and testosterone-ridden, but it was still “Livin’ on a Prayer”, you know? And that’s not a great place to be coming from.

-It isn’t? Why not?

Well, it’s is if it’s a career move and you want to do “Bridge Over Troubled Water” when you’re 60.

-Do you think a lot of those bands were ultimately influenced more by Zep’s debauched depiction in the book Hammer of the Gods: the Led Zeppelin Saga than by what’s actually on your records? It seems like they copied your espoused lifestyle more than your actual songs.

Who knows? I mean, is it all a career move? Getting fucked up is quite easy if you have more than thirty dollars. It was interesting to watch all of that, because I never read the book. But I don’t think anyone could have lived through all that stuff that (former Zeppelin tour manager) Richard Cole blubbered out to the guy who wrote it (author Stephen Davis).

-I have a hard time believing that you’ve never read Hammer of the Gods. Weren’t you curious?

The guy who wrote that book knew nothing about the band. I think he’d hung around us once. He got all his information from a guy who had a heroin problem who happened to be associated with us. The only thing I read was the “After Zeppelin” part, because I was eager to get on with the music and stop living in a dream state.

Does it bother you that, in the eyes of a lot of people, the only reason John Paul Jones was not asked to participate in your 1994 reunion with Jimmy Page was financial? And that you and Page simply didn’t want to split the revenue three ways?

[Chuckles] It’s like this: Led Zeppelin was a very strange, four-quadrant marriage. And when the marriage dissolved, when John passed away, I really didn’t think I’d work with any of those guys again. When we were kids, Bonham and I were the toughest guys around. Nobody wanted to be around us, because we believed in ourselves so much and we were really unbearable. So when he passed, I really didn’t want to stay with the southern guys-the two guys from London. I thought enough was enough, and I’d lost the one guy I’d been close to since I was 15. But when MTV asked me to do the Unplugged thing, I thought, “I can’t take all the credit for this. I can’t do the Zeppelin stuff and sit there with a broad grin on my face,” So I asked Jimmy if it was possible for us to start writing again, without it becoming some sad Zeppelin reunion. And there was really no room for anybody else. There was no physical room or emotional room or creative room.

But couldn’t you have toured with Page, Jones, and Bonham’s son Jason on drums?

But what the fuck for? John Bonham’s kid isn’t as good as John Bonham. Look, I know you’re a journalist, so I’ll go along with this question. I don’t make my living by making a living. My time is so important that I can’t compromise my taste-or my idea of what’s right-simply to match someone else’s view of what’s a good, calculated move. And can you imagine what a lumbering monster that tour would have been? It would have been quite sluttish to come back firing like a bunch of hard rockers. The important thing was that Page and I decided to write again.

How often do you talk to Jimmy Page for non-business purposes?

We’re going to a tennis match on Tuesday.

Really? Who’s playing?

Fuck if I know! I just made that up. [Laughs]

I realize this probably seems ridiculous to you, but there is a whole class of people who listen to classic rock radio and wonder if you guys are actually friends.

There’ definitely a warmth between us, and a patience. We’re like Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon. The reality is that Page is a very clever, talented guy who has a particular slant on music, and I was always his sidekick who had a different slant on music.

Earlier in this interview, you said that a Led Zeppelin reunion tour would have been a “lumbering monster.” But what about bands who are even older than you? Do you think the Rolling Stones are still able to maintain a sense of conviction at this point in their career?

No. But I think they’ve gone somewhere else, and I really can’t be critical. Because if they have a good time and play well, it’s a communion. And it’s somewhere for people to go who remember when that stuff was shit-hot. This kind of thing happens every year. And guess what? You [as a journalist] get a salary, and I get a lot of dough if I sell a lot of records. It’s called entertainment.

As the man who heard them all, what is the coolest, heaviest, most “metal” Jimmy Page guitar riff?

Hmmm. [Pauses] That’s a very good question. I guess it’s got to be “Whole Lotta Love,” doesn’t it? And there’s another song that isn’t heavy but that I love because the guitar is fucking amazing-”For You Life” off Presence.And then there’s the beginning of “The Wanton Song” and “Immigrant Song”. I suppose “Immigrant Song” might have it over “Whole Lotta Love”, but the thing about “Whole Lotta Love” is that it’s quite a sexy track.

Actually, that reminds me of something: On “Whole Lotta Love” you say you’re going to give some girl “every inch” of your love. But you’re British. Why don’t you use the metric system?

That would change the whole tone of the thing! I suppose today it would have to be. “I’ll give you several centimeters of bliss.” But people of my generation know nothing about the metric system. I’m fortunate to say I still use inches-or at least that’s what my girlfriend says, and she’s 29.

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"Life is a big tambourine The more that you shake it the better it seems

This is my [not] wisdom These are just words from the sea

Oh my head is in the sand All my days passin' by"

I think someone lost their tambourine and will look back two years from now and regret those passin years. Father time stops for no man.

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IMHO I expect Allison to dump Robert after the current tour and Robert will go back to being the posing wanker he has been for the last 25 years. Anyone agree?

No and keep your fucking insults to yourself.

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Robert is already working with musicians in Nashville other than Alison Krauss. He has many friends in Americana music, not just Alison and T Bone. We don't think he is a posing anything. He is viewed as a British gentleman with impeccable manners that is working with our local (very accomplished and underappreciated) musicians, and he has become quite popular in our city. If only ALL of his die-hard Led Zeppelin fans could exhibit the same breeding and class (and 99% of them have). At some point Alison will need to address her Union Station line-up, but I do see her collaborating with RP at some point in the future.

For future reference, we don't use the word "wanker" in the United States much, especially in the South. I know what the word means because I did some graduate work at a British University. If you wish to insult a respected musician in Nashville, which we also tend not to do, you will need to come up with a better word.

:wacko:

Once again a solid and fundamental discussion provides more great insight.

Thank you K for that knowledgeable and informative take on RP's musical presence in the Americana's.

Nothing but respect can be said for Robert's interest and history with that genre.

And ain't it just amazing how a conversation online can bring out the widest of opinions.

And now I will quote another comment here , regarding an apparently very upper lipped Rob interview.

It's Saturday night and we just got in , lets read the latest .

ciao 4 now

Edited by Zepp-4-Life
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Actually, that reminds me of something: On “Whole Lotta Love” you say you’re going to give some girl “every inch” of your love. But you’re British. Why don’t you use the metric system?

That would change the whole tone of the thing! I suppose today it would have to be. “I’ll give you several centimeters of bliss.” But people of my generation know nothing about the metric system. I’m fortunate to say I still use inches-or at least that’s what my girlfriend says, and she’s 29.

ROFL. OMFG. That is priceless.

Anyway, it's still clear to me that Robert overthinks his music. He's got issues. The bitterness here is raging.

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