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The Athiest thread


Suz

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I'm more spiritual than religious. I don't subscribe to any faith anymore, really. I've all but been excommunicated from the Church for my views and that's cool. If they don't want me, I don't want them. It's mutual.

Churches are allowed to kick you out? That's harsh. I go to church twice a month, on th Sundays I"m with Mom. My church makes me mad, they talk about how horrible other religions are, but can't back themselves up information on why. Like my preacher was trash talking Buddhist, so I asked him if he knew what the Buddhist believe in. He reply was that they are immoral. My dad is Buddhist, and I studied Buddism my freshmen year for World History, and I really handed it to my preacher. I don't care if he doesn' tlike the religion, but he should at least know what he is talking about. Next ime I go we are discussing Wicca. That should be interesting.

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I had one Evangelical Christian parent and one atheist parent, and so I was exposed to both ideologies. I've swung back and forth over the years and finally settled on a belief in a Supreme Being but with a dislike for organized religion. I give thanks and pray in my own way without a Church telling me what to think or how to behave.

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Uh, wasn't there a war that included in the deaths of 6 million civilians from a certain religion?

By people calling themselves Protestants. So.......yeah. They also went after Jehovah's witnesses. Not to mention gays, gypsies, and anyone alse who was different from them, but they blamed the Jews for everything. My daughter and I heard a holocaust survivor speak at her school. I will never forget it.

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Are we referring to World War II? No "religion" killed 6 million Jews. The Nonreligious Hitler did. Religion was the victim, not the perpetrator.

Sort of already said this..

Well, then I apologise for not seeing it soon enough.

Hitler wasn't 'non-religious' at all, he was raised a Catholic, but often professed a belief in Christanity. He often used Christianity as his motivation for anti-semitism. He advocated a 'Positive Christianity', a belief system purged from what he objected to in traditional Christianity, and which reinvented Jesus as a fighter against the Jews. He also expressed admiration for the Muslim military tradition and favoured aspects of Protestantism.

So, you see, Religion, for him, played it's part in it. A big part in all.

It's getting old? I barely ever post with you. And I did not, in any way, attack anyone's comment here. You don't have to like what I say, but don't accuse me of attacking someone without backing it up at least.

Yeah, it's gettin' old. Attack may have been the wrong word, more like refute. There's really no need to undermine a person's thoughts or opinions. You're doing it with the Rap thread, you're doing it with the Presidential thread, you're doing it with this one. If someone says that they think that religion is the worse mass murderer in history, who are you to say otherwise? It what they think. Get over it.

You may not attack me, but I don't want to see you attacking every bugger and their mum's everytime they say something that's not to your liking. And sometimes you don't hold back.

So, yeah, in that respect it's getting old.

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Well, then I apologise for not seeing it soon enough.

Hitler wasn't 'non-religious' at all, he was raised a Catholic, but often professed a belief in Christanity. He often used Christianity as his motivation for anti-semitism. He advocated a 'Positive Christianity', a belief system purged from what he objected to in traditional Christianity, and which reinvented Jesus as a fighter against the Jews. He also expressed admiration for the Muslim military tradition and favoured aspects of Protestantism.

So, you see, Religion, for him, played it's part in it. A big part in all.

I strongly disagree. He promoted "Positive Christianity" so as not to disturb the already religious in Germany. I think he pick and chose things from religions that would further his cause, which it did.

Joseph Goebells once said "The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-Christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay."

So what religion of his caused WW2 and 10 million people to die in genocide? His religious beliefs did not spark those events. They weren't even a little factor.

Yeah, it's gettin' old. Attack may have been the wrong word, more like refute. There's really no need to undermine a person's thoughts or opinions. You're doing it with the Rap thread, you're doing it with the Presidential thread, you're doing it with this one. If someone says that they think that religion is the worse mass murderer in history, who are you to say otherwise? It what they think. Get over it.
First of all, I only took issue in the Rap thread because people were calling it talentless bullshit, which (since I listen to rap) I got a little mad at. And they people admitted they hadn't even tried rap really, so that was a joke.

Secondly, I'm doing nothing wrong in the Presidential thread that all us political posters don't do.

Lastly, I've done nothing here. You're exaggerating.

You may not attack me, but I don't want to see you attacking every bugger and their mum's everytime they say something that's not to your liking. And sometimes you don't hold back.
Not to my liking? 90% of what I read I don't like.

So, yeah, in that respect it's getting old.

Tough.

I don't see anyone else complaining. Get over it.

edited to add:

If someone says that they think that religion is the worse mass murderer in history, who are you to say otherwise? It what they think.
Let me ask you something. Do you think someone posted that in the hopes that no one would respond to it? Or did they want to discuss the point? I'm giving my opinion. You don't have to like it, that's your right. I couldn't care less. But I'm not going to NOT give my opinion. It's why I come here, to discuss religion, politics, anything. I'm arguing that Religion is not the single-biggest mass murderer ever, because frankly I think that's a false statement. And the arguing will continue, despite what you want or wish or whatever.

Have a nice day. ;)

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I strongly disagree. He promoted "Positive Christianity" so as not to disturb the already religious in Germany. I think he pick and chose things from religions that would further his cause, which it did.

Joseph Goebells once said "The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-Christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay."

So what religion of his caused WW2 and 10 million people to die in genocide? His religious beliefs did not spark those events. They weren't even a little factor.

Well, he may have had a hidden agenda concerning Christianity, but he was raised Catholic. He'd have known the doctine's of that faith, and whether or not he actually believed in Christianity or any of it's theories, I believe he'd have subconsciously carried what he was raised with, with him. He wasn't completely willing to disown his belief in religion. Or else his reason for killing who he killed wouldn't have been what it was.

Suz, has made the same point, so...

First of all, I only took issue in the Rap thread because people were calling it talentless bullshit, which (since I listen to rap) I got a little mad at. And they people admitted they hadn't even tried rap really, so that was a joke.

Secondly, I'm doing nothing wrong in the Presidential thread that all us political posters don't do.

Lastly, I've done nothing here. You're exaggerating.

For every subject you're passionate about, they'll be someone who's passionately against it. You don't need to belittle them, call them this or that. You just need to respect it. I think Rap is bullshit, but I am not going to knock someone who does like it. I respect that they do. Perhaps you should learn to do the same?

Not to my liking? 90% of what I read I don't like.

I don't see anyone else complaining. Get over it.

I know it's not to your liking. I'm reading it half the time. No one else is complaining because we all know to argue with a teenager is futile.

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Well, he may have had a hidden agenda concerning Christianity, but he was raised Catholic. He'd have known the doctine's of that faith, and whether or not he actually believed in Christianity or any of it's theories, I believe he'd have subconsciously carried what he was raised with, with him. He wasn't completely willing to disown his belief in religion. Or else his reason for killing who he killed wouldn't have been what it was.

So you think religion motivated World War II and the Holocaust...and not the horrendous state that Germany was in at the time?

For every subject you're passionate about, they'll be someone who's passionately against it. You don't need to belittle them, call them this or that. You just need to respect it. I think Rap is bullshit, but I am not going to knock someone who does like it. I respect that they do. Perhaps you should learn to do the same?
I do. I always do. But I'm not going to sit and listen to someone come in here and say, "I've never tried rap but he's why it sucks." That's obnoxious. I told Ollipticle, BIGDAN, everyone that if they didn't like rap, that's fine. But you have to give it an actual chance or how can you you make such a broad sweeping argument about it?

By the by, I respect political opinions more so than probably most people here, so I guess I'm not seeing your point.

I know it's not to your liking. I'm reading it half the time. No one else is complaining because we all know to argue with a teenager is futile.

Ah. And there's that pesky age thing again. Why must I always get that?

Anywho, so why do Tangerine, Hermit, Liz, I_got_a_horsey, Pb, srplane, Suz, allthekingshorses, Medhb, etc. all argue/debate/dsicuss with me?

Could it be that you know your wrong and you really want me to look bad?

Who's the teenager again?

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Churches are allowed to kick you out? That's harsh. I go to church twice a month, on th Sundays I"m with Mom. My church makes me mad, they talk about how horrible other religions are, but can't back themselves up information on why. Like my preacher was trash talking Buddhist, so I asked him if he knew what the Buddhist believe in. He reply was that they are immoral. My dad is Buddhist, and I studied Buddism my freshmen year for World History, and I really handed it to my preacher. I don't care if he doesn' tlike the religion, but he should at least know what he is talking about. Next ime I go we are discussing Wicca. That should be interesting.

I don't know about other religions, but you can be excommunicated from the Catholic Church. I grew up a very devout Catholic, just like my sister and my parents. However as I grew older and was exposed to different ideologies and ways of thinking, I realized that what I felt was common sense was not in line with what the Church thought and I grew separate. I go with my family to Midnight Mass on Christmas, and Easter Mass, but other than that.....unless someone is marrying or being buried in the Church, I don't attend. I feel I'm more spiritual than religious now. I think most organized religions are useless. I think you can have faith and believe in a higher power without conforming to any one faith's tenets and canons.

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By people calling themselves Protestants. So.......yeah. They also went after Jehovah's witnesses. Not to mention gays, gypsies, and anyone alse who was different from them, but they blamed the Jews for everything. My daughter and I heard a holocaust survivor speak at her school. I will never forget it.

Exactly.

We have the only Holocaust memorial center in England, in Nottinghamshire, and all the local schools go. They must know what happened, so that they can make sure it should never happen again.

I, myself, can't do it. I couldn't bear to be there, given that he would've killed me just for having Jewish grandparents. As ignorant as it is, I'd rather not know how some of my family died, (because they did, being from Warsaw and being Jewish) I want to give them that dignity - or what was left of it.

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So you think religion motivated World War II and the Holocaust...and not the horrendous state that Germany was in at the time?

No, I didn't say that religion motivated WWII, I said I believed he carried what he was raised with, as well as what he later 'believed' in, throughout his 'campaign'. And, as Suz pointed out, it was by people calling themselves Protestants. And he didn't completely disown any religious persuasion. He pretty much blamed everything on the Jews. And 'succeeded' in killing 6 million. No religion behind that? What other reasoning would he have?

I do. I always do. But I'm not going to sit and listen to someone come in here and say, "I've never tried rap but he's why it sucks." That's obnoxious. I told Ollipticle, BIGDAN, everyone that if they didn't like rap, that's fine. But you have to give it an actual chance or how can you you make such a broad sweeping argument about it?

By the by, I respect political opinions more so than probably most people here, so I guess I'm not seeing your point.

There's such a thing as being too opinionated. If someone ever said to me (and they have), 'Led Zeppelin are shit', I'd say, 'Whatever'. Simple as. I know they don't know what Zeppelin were about. I know they don't know that the little band they like were influenced by them. But I don't give one shit. It's their right and their decision. And it's nothing personal, either. I'm not about to go on a tirade against them.

And I can safely make the 'broad, sweeping argument' that smoking is disgusting, even without ever having smoked a cigarette before.

Ah. And there's that pesky age thing again. Why must I always get that?

Anywho, so why do Tangerine, Hermit, Liz, I_got_a_horsey, Pb, srplane, Suz, allthekingshorses, Medhb, etc. all argue/debate/dsicuss with me?

Could it be that you know your wrong and you really want me to look bad?

Who's the teenager again?

You get the age issue a lot then?

You're arguing that you're mature when you have 'meaningful' discussions with people over the internet - several of whom had the dreaded 'b' word applied to them? I have no doubt that you can argue/debate/discuss your way out of a paper bag, you're an intellegant person, but sometimes all that arguing does shit. You (not you, personally) just appear argumentative and tiresome. And it can get old.

I don't know that I'm wrong (though I always think I am), and I don't think I'm right, either. And I don't want you to look bad. Maybe I get irritated more easily than I should. Maybe I think this site is so volatile and hostile it's sad. I just hate seeing people being challenged on everything, especially when it comes to being on a Zeppelin board. It should be fun, and it's not anymore.

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No, I didn't say that religion motivated WWII, I said I believed he carried what he was raised with, as well as what he later 'believed' in, throughout his 'campaign'. And, as Suz pointed out, it was by people calling themselves Protestants. And he didn't completely disown any religious persuasion. He pretty much blamed everything on the Jews. And 'succeeded' in killing 6 million. No religion behind that? What other reasoning would he have?
You said he was raised Catholics. You know they killed thousands of Catholics right? He spared no religion whatsoever. He just happened to target Jews, but if you got in the way, he'd kill you, regardless of religion.

And what is your point exactly? Religion is the victim in this case. A crazy nut goes out and slaughters 6 million members of a certain religion. His own religious beliefs were not near the main factor in him doing so. Thus, this argument does not follow the idea that religion is the single-biggest mass murderer in history...which is what I'm talking about

There's such a thing as being too opinionated. If someone ever said to me (and they have), 'Led Zeppelin are shit', I'd say, 'Whatever'. Simple as. I know they don't know what Zeppelin were about. I know they don't know that the little band they like were influenced by them. But I don't give one shit. It's their right and their decision. And it's nothing personal, either. I'm not about to go on a tirade against them.
Good for you. I'd ask why they hated Zeppelin. If they just didn't like their music, whatever. I don't care either. But I like - no - love to debate and discuss and argue just as many people here do. You, obviously do not. That's fine. But I like to, and that is my right

And I can safely make the 'broad, sweeping argument' that smoking is disgusting, even without ever having smoked a cigarette before.
That's entirely different. You'd have that opinion because of the second-hand smoke you've smelled or because you physically do not like to see someone inhale smoke. However, it's another story if you had no idea what smoking was at all and you bitched it out, despite being completely ignorant on the subject. That's the thing that I cannot stand. That's what the far Religious Right do. They make broad sweeping generalizations about Middle Eastern culture and they apply it to politics. Nasty formula.

You get the age issue a lot then?
Once in a while, especially when someone is losing an argument. Not saying you are, but thats generally when people brign that up (DRUNK used it then blocked me after I proved his hypocrisy)

You're arguing that you're mature when you have 'meaningful' discussions with people over the internet - several of whom had the dreaded 'b' word applied to them? I have no doubt that you can argue/debate/discuss your way out of a paper bag, you're an intellegant person, but sometimes all that arguing does shit. You (not you, personally) just appear argumentative and tiresome. And it can get old.
You make it sound like it's just me. You think I'm the only one who comes in here and debates politics at every turn? Perhaps you should talk to others as well before you bring this up on a single person.

Oh, and I disagree. It doesn't become tiresome. THE FIRST LEDZEP becomes tiresome because he posts three word sentences 90% of the time, but Hermits posts never got old.

I don't know that I'm wrong (though I always think I am), and I don't think I'm right, either. And I don't want you to look bad. Maybe I get irritated more easily than I should. Maybe I think this site is so volatile and hostile it's sad. I just hate seeing people being challenged on everything, especially when it comes to being on a Zeppelin board. It should be fun, and it's not anymore.

I do this all in good fun. I rarely get legitimately angry unless I'm dealing with a complete asshat or troll.

You don't like arguing apparently. I do. Big deal.

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i guess the ones i was refering to would be race related, i mean the holocaoust was really bad and that was done to a whole race, i guess your right there is a difference.

Doesn't it make you wonder though, why the Nazis (not Hitler) were so interested in Mysticism.

The destruction of European Jewry meant wiping out most Hassidic scholars and kabbalists.

I smell menace to their madness.

They were attempting a spiritual take over.

Spirituality in replacement of religion has strong purpose and need.

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Doesn't it make you wonder though, why the Nazis (not Hitler) were so interested in Mysticism.

The destruction of European Jewry meant wiping out most Hassidic scholars and kabbalists.

I smell menace to their madness.

They were attempting a spiritual take over.

Spirituality in replacement of religion has strong purpose and need.

I think the Nazi's just did what they thought would make their world a better place after their defeat in WW1 and all the land they had to embarassingly sign over. They created a scapegoat. Jews were unlikely in that it was them.
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By people calling themselves Protestants. So.......yeah. They also went after Jehovah's witnesses. Not to mention gays, gypsies, and anyone alse who was different from them, but they blamed the Jews for everything. My daughter and I heard a holocaust survivor speak at her school. I will never forget it.

My parents both survived Auschwitz and the holocaust never ended.

It went underground and went after specific targets.

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Well, then I apologise for not seeing it soon enough.

Hitler wasn't 'non-religious' at all, he was raised a Catholic, but often professed a belief in Christanity. He often used Christianity as his motivation for anti-semitism. He advocated a 'Positive Christianity', a belief system purged from what he objected to in traditional Christianity, and which reinvented Jesus as a fighter against the Jews. He also expressed admiration for the Muslim military tradition and favoured aspects of Protestantism.

So, you see, Religion, for him, played it's part in it. A big part in all.

Huge part. They brought in the Swastika as their symbol on Christmas day. On the other hand, I'm friendly with a German born on Christmas day with a Scottish last name, lol. Times are changing.

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Huge part. They brought in the Swastika as their symbol on Christmas day. On the other hand, I'm friendly with a German born on Christmas day with a Scottish last name, lol. Times are changing.

You're assuming Nazism is a religion. I do not consider it to be one. A cult is more like it.

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You said he was raised Catholics. You know they killed thousands of Catholics right? He spared no religion whatsoever. He just happened to target Jews, but if you got in the way, he'd kill you, regardless of religion.

And what is your point exactly? Religion is the victim in this case. A crazy nut goes out and slaughters 6 million members of a certain religion. His own religious beliefs were not near the main factor in him doing so. Thus, this argument does not follow the idea that religion is the single-biggest mass murderer in history...which is what I'm talking about

I do know that he killed many more minorities. It just so happens that I stick to the one that I am closely affliated with.

I guess my point would be why would you kill people of a certain religion? I'm not arguing that religion wasn't the victim, I just want to know why, if not for religion, would you target a particularly group?

You make it sound like it's just me. You think I'm the only one who comes in here and debates politics at every turn? Perhaps you should talk to others as well before you bring this up on a single person.

It's not just you, it's everyone, and, at times, even me. And I have raised it before. I hate intolorance, and I don't care what form it is, whether it be music, politics, religion. If someone is of a certain way or thought, they should not be challenged because of it. Just like it's your right to argue. It's their right to live that way, without confrontation.

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I submit to you that gods were invented by man to cope with the fear of death, and that we as a species have moved beyond the need for them. For every awesome religious person I know, there are 10 ignorant douchebags. One need not look past the paper, the evening news, or recorded history (constantly repeating itself) to see what happens when people farm everything out to unseen entities invented in their own image.

I love you, Suz!! :D

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I do know that he killed many more minorities. It just so happens that I stick to the one that I am closely affliated with.

I guess my point would be why would you kill people of a certain religion? I'm not arguing that religion wasn't the victim, I just want to know why, if not for religion, would you target a particularly group?

Because he used them as a scapegoat. He couldn't blame the majority of German people, otherwise he couldn't have gotten to power. He used the Jews as a stepping stool upon which he grabbed the position of Fuhrer and he dominated Germany until his death. I am not arguing that he didn't go after Jews because of their religion...he msot certainly did. However, his religious beliefs did not dictate who he went after. His war and his genocide were not because of his religious beliefs and that is the point i am making.

It's not just you, it's everyone, and, at times, even me. And I have raised it before. I hate intolorance, and I don't care what form it is, whether it be music, politics, religion. If someone is of a certain way or thought, they should not be challenged because of it. Just like it's your right to argue. It's their right to live that way, without confrontation.

I'm not intolerant though...I just point out ignorance when I see it, which I have done multiple times. So what? That's not intolerance.

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I, myself, can't do it. I couldn't bear to be there, given that he would've killed me just for having Jewish grandparents. As ignorant as it is, I'd rather not know how some of my family died, (because they did, being from Warsaw and being Jewish) I want to give them that dignity - or what was left of it.

My dad's from Warsaw. Odd name eh?

My mom is from Lodg - not sure of the spelling.

I know how most of my family died. My mother made sure to tell me daily.

Anyhow, over the years, I've learned to commune with many of them.

My dad saw his father in a vision once, but got scared.

I seem to be the only one in my family who isn't scared of wearing that badge.

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You're assuming Nazism is a religion. I do not consider it to be one. A cult is more like it.

To a degree, couldn't all religions qualify as cults?

Much like a tribe, a cult,... an affiliation.

Mormonism is considered a cult, yet a religion by their own standards, I would imagine.

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Because he used them as a scapegoat. He couldn't blame the majority of German people, otherwise he couldn't have gotten to power. He used the Jews as a stepping stool upon which he grabbed the position of Fuhrer and he dominated Germany until his death. I am not arguing that he didn't go after Jews because of their religion...he msot certainly did. However, his religious beliefs did not dictate who he went after. His war and his genocide were not because of his religious beliefs and that is the point i am making.

Moreso race believe it or not.

Anyone, no matter what religion they professed, had they any

Jewish blood going back generations...were listed.

btw IBM and the Holocaust is pretty mind blowing for a read.

It helps outline how what the Nazis did helped facilitate things for modern use so to speak,

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My dad's from Warsaw. Odd name eh?

My mom is from Lodg - not sure of the spelling.

I know how most of my family died. My mother made sure to tell me daily.

Anyhow, over the years, I've learned to commune with many of them.

My dad saw his father in a vision once, but got scared.

I seem to be the only one in my family who isn't scared of wearing that badge.

All my family were from Warsaw. I don't usually write it like that. I've always written it as Warszawa. It comes from the story that the city was named after a fisherman named Wars and his wife Sawa.

My family and I remain ignorant of how our Polish family died, because we lost contact after my family came to England. Shortly after we had no contact at all. All we have is the family name on the Warsaw Ghetto memorial.

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