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The Athiest thread


Suz

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I don't put much trust into anyone who believes in fictional beings such as gods, tooth faeries and the like. To me this is a very good meter in determining how intelligent they are.

Religion has been used over the centuries to control. That is it's main function........control.........how others feel, eat, sleep, or screw for that matter.

It's more practical to take things as they are, appreciate love, beauty and life EMPIRICALLY. We must also accept our immortality thusly.

Codex Argenteus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Argenteus (added at edit)

So basically you are saying that you think everyone who believe in any type of religion is stupid. However, it is terribly ignorant of you to make such assumtion because there are many religions that accept the things you listed and unlike you they aren't judgemental of people.

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This would be exactly what I wrote...

I don't put much trust into anyone who believes in fictional beings such as gods, tooth faeries and the like. To me this is a very good meter in determining how intelligent they are.

Religion has been used over the centuries to control. That is it's main function........control.........how others feel, eat, sleep, or screw for that matter.

It's more practical to take things as they are, appreciate love, beauty and life EMPIRICALLY. We must also accept our immortality thusly.

Codex Argenteus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Argenteus (added at edit)

A meter in determining how intelligent they are, is a far cry from calling them "stupid."

I dont know of a single president in recent times that does not believe in God? So to say that people that believe in God are stupic is ridiculous. Many an intelligent person do believe in God. All of my doctors believe in God. I think they have to have a few brains to get through medical school. The atheists are a vast minority on this planet and I disagree with the statement made by someone earlier saying there are more out there than we think. There are many many that are agnostic and have no real opinion either way. That is far differant than coming out and saying there can be no God. There is much evidence to support that there is a God and a Devil. It kills me that people would believe that flying saucers have been here undetected before they would believe in a supreme being. I do believe that alien life exists, but dont know if intelligent alien life exists. I am quite certain that they have never been here though. They would have to conquer the same laws of physics that we would to get here. Too far away and too much time to get here.

Presidents have said there's a god true. Let me remind you, they are the very best of talking heads. It's their job to try to please everyone if they can.

I have no inclination to think your doctors are stupid. I do however tend to feel they review your chart before they see you... :P It is also their job to please most everyone if they can. If you were a doctor, would you tell your religious ill patient their is no god?

Hiipocratic Oath http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

wont allow it. Peers however will B)

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I don't put much trust into anyone who believes in fictional beings such as gods, tooth faeries and the like. To me this is a very good meter in determining how intelligent they are.

Religion has been used over the centuries to control. That is it's main function........control.........how others feel, eat, sleep, or screw for that matter.

It's more practical to take things as they are, appreciate love, beauty and life EMPIRICALLY. We must also accept our immortality thusly.

Codex Argenteus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Argenteus (added at edit)

How we approach anything can be a measure in determining how intelligent we are. That includes generalized assertions. If this is to be a representative statement of a position, then the premise of 'fictional beings such as gods, tooth faeries' is simply weak. Tooth faerie believers around the world would be insulted :D. But seriously, there are ways of arguing for the one and against the other that are within the bounds of reasoned debate; lumping them together is not.

Also, an assertion such as religion's main function being control is also suspect. Not all religions manifest themselves the same way. Yes there is control, but what is described here falls more under the category of a cult. Religions that do not honour free will do as well. But again, not all forms of control are harmful. By definition, when something is defined, implicit in that definition is what it is not. Thus, we have boundaries that not only guide people from harm and towards striving for their better selves. Missing from so many statements here about religions' harm is the good that many - including the main three of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam - have contributed, from which countless have benefited throughout history, including today. Have atrocities been committed under their banners? Undoubtedly. That too is a complex issue, one where religion was weaved with politics, where the intent and application grew further apart.

But that is another matter.

The point of this thread is various systems of belief, of which theism is one. Perhaps the best measure of intelligence or wisdom is admitting that none of has THE answer. Doing so leaves room for faith and doubt and growth. Yes taking a definitive stand has its merits, but its limits as well because not all choices are the same. If they were, there would be no such thing as choice. So lumping all religions together and dismissing them is perhaps indicative of the very narrow mindedness one tries to get away from when arguing against religions in the first place. Leaving room for "I don't know" is perhaps the best measure of intelligence one can show.

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How we approach anything can be a measure in determining how intelligent we are. That includes generalized assertions. If this is to be a representative statement of a position, then the premise of 'fictional beings such as gods, tooth faeries' is simply weak. Tooth faerie believers around the world would be insulted :D . But seriously, there are ways of arguing for the one and against the other that are within the bounds of reasoned debate; lumping them together is not.

>

Then the fact God is a 'concept,' by definition is pretty weak and I will run my risk of being struck by lightening....

>

Also, an assertion such as religion's main function being control is also suspect. Not all religions manifest themselves the same way. Yes there is control, but what is described here falls more under the category of a cult. Religions that do not honour free will do as well. But again, not all forms of control are harmful. By definition, when something is defined, implicit in that definition is what it is not. Thus, we have boundaries that not only guide people from harm and towards striving for their better selves. Missing from so many statements here about religions' harm is the good that many - including the main three of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam - have contributed, from which countless have benefited throughout history, including today. Have atrocities been committed under their banners? Undoubtedly. That too is a complex issue, one where religion was weaved with politics, where the intent and application grew further apart.

>

My experiences with persons who believe in religion is their trying to control how I feel, act and behave. Much of that can be a good thing, if the person is acting out of hand. However I do not feel acting as a feeling, loving person and religion walk hand in hand.

How do the people in England ever get along when most all of them do not believe in god?

Atrocities will be interwoven....

Atrocities will be interwoven....especially in America. It's protected by freedom of religion in the constitution, perhaps too much of a good thing.

In their position

>

But that is another matter.

The point of this thread is various systems of belief, of which theism is one. Perhaps the best measure of intelligence or wisdom is admitting that none of has THE answer. Doing so leaves room for faith and doubt and growth. Yes taking a definitive stand has its merits, but its limits as well because not all choices are the same. If they were, there would be no such thing as choice. So lumping all religions together and dismissing them is perhaps indicative of the very narrow mindedness one tries to get away from when arguing against religions in the first place. Leaving room for "I don't know" is perhaps the best measure of intelligence one can show.

>

The best measure of intelligence is the right to choose as far as I'm concerned. I will choose to point out 'God' is a 'concept,' not an empirical fact.

The world runs on facts, at least mine does.

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>

The best measure of intelligence is the right to choose as far as I'm concerned. I will choose to point out 'God' is a 'concept,' not an empirical fact.

The world runs on facts, at least mine does.

Just to clarify, MH, I acknowledge where you're coming from and in no way dishonour your experiences. It's sad that so many have had bad experiences with religion, but it's good that these are now being exposed, too. I agree with your right to choose as being fundamental (free will being a principal tenet I outlined earlier), it's just that what I'm arguing for is how we arrive at our choices because the methods - be it from personal experience or faulty reasoning - can give us a less comprehensive and more skewed view. And clarity, after all, is what I think we're after. People hold on to many beliefs, whether sound or not, for many reasons. I really like a no BS policy. That applies to religions, and to ourselves.

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I think u may enjoy this bit!!

We're all god.

I'm not A god or THE god, but we're all god and we're all potentially divine and potentially evil.

We all have everything within us.

There is a power we can all tap.

God is a power and we're all light bulbs that can tap the electricity.

You can use electricity to kill people or to light the room.

God is that.

I don't need to go to church.

I think people who need a church should go.

The others who know the church is in your own head should visit that temple 'cus that's where the source is.

John Lennon, 1969

Thank you, John Lennon

I come to appreciate him more as I get older :D

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Just to clarify, MH, I acknowledge where you're coming from and in no way dishonour your experiences. It's sad that so many have had bad experiences with religion, but it's good that these are now being exposed, too. I agree with your right to choose as being fundamental (free will being a principal tenet I outlined earlier), it's just that what I'm arguing for is how we arrive at our choices because the methods - be it from personal experience or faulty reasoning - can give us a less comprehensive and more skewed view. And clarity, after all, is what I think we're after. People hold on to many beliefs, whether sound or not, for many reasons. I really like a no BS policy. That applies to religions, and to ourselves.

Very well stated Patrycja. I'm not bulling you. I just prefer honesty. I say what I honestly feel. Many hate that approach, but I feel it cuts through the nonsense. I truly feel believing in fantasy god's is very dangerous for the world as a whole.

Oh I didn't think you dishonoured me :rolleyes:

Let's all enjoy ourselves.

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I'm a very faithful Protestant and for every awesome atheist I know there are 40 who are F'd in the head or have daddy issues.

Do you mean the big daddy in the sky you pray to? Cause you can't have issues with that if it doesn't exist for you. Ya know?

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Very well stated Patrycja. I'm not bulling you. I just prefer honesty. I say what I honestly feel. Many hate that approach, but I feel it cuts through the nonsense. I truly feel believing in fantasy god's is very dangerous for the world as a whole.

Oh I didn't think you dishonoured me :rolleyes:

Let's all enjoy ourselves.

Well thank you, MH. Why people believe something is as interesting to me as what they believe. I didn't feel bullied, no worries; I like your forthrightness. And while I respectfully disagree with your assertion of a fantasy god, I would never impose my beliefs on anyone. It's just that I do not want to be lumped with those who cruelly use religion or thoughtlessly believe. We're not all the same. This is something I've studied for a long time and while I can defend my position to some degree, I am open to those of others. Thanks for sharing.

Peace

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Well thank you, MH. Why people believe something is as interesting to me as what they believe. I didn't feel bullied, no worries; I like your forthrightness. And while I respectfully disagree with your assertion of a fantasy god, I would never impose my beliefs on anyone. It's just that I do not want to be lumped with those who cruelly use religion or thoughtlessly believe. We're not all the same. This is something I've studied for a long time and while I can defend my position to some degree, I am open to those of others. Thanks for sharing.

Peace

I guess 'thoughtless believing' is what truly makes my head spin. Sort of like it's a pre owned right that a god exists or that most everything 'theists,' say is proven correct because it can be found in the bible.

Hades is a pretty good step to think of. Hades was actually a Greek myth.

More on mythology to think about for now. Love this subject.

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT TILL NEXT TIME

Theologians and preachers think that they have this whole Greek hades thing all figured out. They know how many compartments are in this Greek hell, and who is going there and what happens there and all about it. They have studied what the Greeks have to say about their little hades/hell place of eternal torture, and it’s all quite simple to them. Whatever the Greeks say this hades of theirs is and represents, then that’s the way it is. After all, should not the Greeks know all about their very own hell? This, however, presents a problem that I doubt few have ever considered.

If theologians think that it is the Greeks who should be defining the meaning of the Greek Scriptures to us, then I submit that they have created their own two-edged sword. Here is just one major problem they will have to solve:

The word in Greek for "hell" is hades, and the word in Greek for "God" is theos.

Now then, since theos comes for deus and deus from Zeus (Zeus being the main god of the Greeks), did Jesus really teach that,

"You shall love the Lord your God
[the Greek theos, deus, that is, ZEUS]
with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and GREAT COMMANDMENT"
(Matt. 22:37-38)?

According to the Greek Scriptures, did Jesus really teach that the great commandment is that we should LOVE the Greek god theos, that is Zeus? Are we really to "LOVE the Greek god ZEUS," with all our heart, soul and mind, in order to avoid being eternally tortured in the Greek hell of hades? The theologians have not thought this through very well. If the Greek Scriptures do indeed teach that the unjust go to the Greek hell, hades, then they also teach that the just are to love the Greek god, Zeus! Think about it. Be sure to read "HELL"—Part D.

May God grant you the faith and courage to trust Him that He might give you "the love of the truth that you might be saved" (II Thes. 2:10),

Courtesy http://bible-truths.com/lake16-C.html

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I hope you don't mind me jumping in here, Mary, but I think we may need some Jewish perspective here (unless others find my jumping in on this side annoying... let me know :D).

I don't put much trust into anyone who believes in fictional beings such as gods, tooth faeries and the like. To me this is a very good meter in determining how intelligent they are.

I know some incredibly intelligent people who believe in God. My Rabbi (the spiritual leader of a synagogue) has a doctorate in psychology. He's in his 60's and still goes to school because he believes learning never ends.

He believes in the Big Bang, he believes in evolution, and he believes in natural selection. He believe the Torah is metaphorical, not meant to be taken literally.

He also believes in God.

But I would not call him stupid or not intelligent on any level. This man has held many long conversations with Atheists, and, indeed, many have a lot of respect for him. Some of these Atheists have even spoken in our synagogue (without challenging out beliefs, believe it or not).

Religion has been used over the centuries to control. That is it's main function........control.........how others feel, eat, sleep, or screw for that matter.

I could say the same for Atheism. Let's be frank. All religions, including Atheism (Atheism does fall under the literal religious definition, which is NOT belief in a god so much as a belief in a doctrine, and Atheism does have a doctrine), have their fanatics.

I have seen Atheists literally proselytizing about there being no god. I have seen this. I have seen Atheists try and get religious people to abandon their religions.

So it exists within Atheism.

I also have to wonder where you live, because it seems your only experience has been with ultra-fanatical Christians and Muslims. I have to assume that you have not experienced the more moderate Christians and Muslims, no experience with many Pagan religions, nor have you had any experience with Jews.

As a Jew myself, I can speak best for us, so...

You are a lucky (or unlucky) person indeed if you have found a Jew who is a Creationist and believes in proselytizing and "saving the souls of non-Jews." Most Jews today... indeed, even the most fanatical... agree that Evolution and Natural Selection are more plausible then literal Creation, though as God's tools. In other words, Jews believe that what Darwin discovered is the real truth... but we believe that Darwin discovered the "how," not the "why."

Theism was coined to contrast with atheists. Just silliness as far as I'm concerned.

Incorrect, simply because Theism was first. I say that because belief in God, or in many gods, came long before a belief that there is no god or are no gods.

So, in actuality, I would say your statement needs to be flipped.

>

The best measure of intelligence is the right to choose as far as I'm concerned. I will choose to point out 'God' is a 'concept,' not an empirical fact.

The world runs on facts, at least mine does.

I agree that God is not a fact. But unfortunately, that's the biggest problem Atheists have.

I present to you a concept known as "Faith." It is this concept that Atheists have either willfully or otherwise forgotten.

I understand your need for facts. I understand the want to believe in something you know because the evidence is their for it. But this is not true for all people. For me, I believe in God.

Do I know God exists? Would I say God's existence is fact?

Absolutely not. I do not know, and I have no facts for it. But I believe in God because I have faith in my belief.

Does that make me stupid, or of "lesser intelligence?"

I must admit to being quite insulted if you feel my faith makes me so. I believe in God because regardless of Nature, I see God everyday.

I love science. But I believe science has taken the mystery and the beauty of many things that were once beautiful and mysterious:

-The birth of a child

-The rising and setting sun

-The rising and setting moon

-Storms

-Natural Light

-The Circle of Life

I do NOT think science meant to make these things mundane when it described them. I believe science, in the beginning, was only trying to answer how God did what he did. But some people decided that these discoveries meant that there was no god, and suddenly the beautiful and miraculous became mundane and ordinary.

Yet, despite knowing how and why the above things happen, I still believe they are beautiful and miraculous, and through them I believe in God.

I'm not denying the science of these things. I'm not denying that the rising and setting sun is a perception, and the truth is we revolve around a generally stationary sun. I'm not denying what goes in to childbirth. I'm not denying the science behind storms, warm fronts, cold fronts, wind, etc. I'm not denying the science between a body's decay, blood-flow, etc. The facts are what science has shown and that is that.

But it doesn't make me believe any less in God because I have faith in God, and that concept... faith... is what you and others have forgotten. Faith means we don't need proof. We believe because we want to believe.

Very well stated Patrycja. I'm not bulling you. I just prefer honesty. I say what I honestly feel. Many hate that approach, but I feel it cuts through the nonsense.

I am so glad that I'm not the only one. If you've read my posts (especially on the Robert Plant thread in the news section :D) you'll see that I feel much the same way. honesty is the best policy, and if people have a problem with that, it's their concern, not mine.

So I say amen to this.

I truly feel believing in fantasy god's is very dangerous for the world as a whole.

And I believe that like any weapon, it's not believing in God or gods, but who holds that belief that is dangerous. It's like guns... a gun, whether loaded or otherwise, lying in a desk in an empty room is no harm to anybody. What makes that gun harmful is the person who picks it up to use it.

It is the same with belief. Atheists can be just as dangerous as religions. If a group of Atheists feel that they have the truth and they must convert the world, and grow a doctrine that says they will kill those who don't stop believing in God and start believing in science, then I say to you that not believing in God is just as dangerous.

God him(her)self is no more dangerous then an untouched gun. Belief in God only becomes dangerous when the people with that belief intend to use it for the wrong reasons. God did not fight the Crusades, God did not start the Holocaust, and God (Allah) is not responsible for the fanatical Muslims and their current "Gihad." These and all other religious wars were started by men, fought by men, and ended by men. Religious control is not fronted by God... but by men. So God is not the cause of the danger. He may be the unfortunate excuse for it, but he is not that cause or the reason. It is the human being, plain and simple.

I guess 'thoughtless believing' is what truly makes my head spin. Sort of like it's a pre owned right that a god exists or that most everything 'theists,' say is proven correct because it can be found in the bible.

Hades is a pretty good step to think of. Hades was actually a Greek myth.

More on mythology to think about for now. Love this subject.

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT TILL NEXT TIME

Theologians and preachers think that they have this whole Greek hades thing all figured out. They know how many compartments are in this Greek hell, and who is going there and what happens there and all about it. They have studied what the Greeks have to say about their little hades/hell place of eternal torture, and it's all quite simple to them. Whatever the Greeks say this hades of theirs is and represents, then that's the way it is. After all, should not the Greeks know all about their very own hell? This, however, presents a problem that I doubt few have ever considered.

If theologians think that it is the Greeks who should be defining the meaning of the Greek Scriptures to us, then I submit that they have created their own two-edged sword. Here is just one major problem they will have to solve:

The word in Greek for "hell" is hades, and the word in Greek for "God" is theos.

Now then, since theos comes for deus and deus from Zeus (Zeus being the main god of the Greeks), did Jesus really teach that,

"You shall love the Lord your God
[the Greek theos, deus, that is, ZEUS]
with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and GREAT COMMANDMENT"
(Matt. 22:37-38)?

According to the Greek Scriptures, did Jesus really teach that the great commandment is that we should LOVE the Greek god theos, that is Zeus? Are we really to "LOVE the Greek god ZEUS," with all our heart, soul and mind, in order to avoid being eternally tortured in the Greek hell of hades? The theologians have not thought this through very well. If the Greek Scriptures do indeed teach that the unjust go to the Greek hell, hades, then they also teach that the just are to love the Greek god, Zeus! Think about it. Be sure to read "HELL"—Part D.

May God grant you the faith and courage to trust Him that He might give you "the love of the truth that you might be saved" (II Thes. 2:10),

Courtesy http://bible-truths.com/lake16-C.html

I have to wonder what idiot wrote this. I say that because the original Bible was NOT Greek! The original Bible is the Torah. It is the Hebrew Bible. The Greek Old Testament was simply an early translation (albeit riddled with mistakes... in fact, one mistake, inadvertently or purposely, created the false prophecy of the virgin birth... false because in truth, there was never a virgin birth prophecy... the actual prophecy talks about a young woman, recently married... not a virgin), and, according to some sources, may not even have been the first translation! If this site wants to talk about truth as it pertains to the bible, then it should be talking not about the Greek Hades, but the Hebrew Sheol.

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I can certainly understand why some people believe in God, I mean.....

large_web.jpg

web.jpg

large_web.jpg

large_web.jpg

large_web.jpg

I don't know about you guys, but it made be made up of mostly toxic gases, but the universe is gorgeous

http://hubblesite.org/gallery/

Most people don't really think about the rest of the universe, its sort of like Earth's version of nationalism. Planetism...we aren't the only planet in the universe.

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I hope you don't mind me jumping in here, Mary, but I think we may need some Jewish perspective here (unless others find my jumping in on this side annoying... let me know :D ).

I know some incredibly intelligent people who believe in God. My Rabbi (the spiritual leader of a synagogue) has a doctorate in psychology. He's in his 60's and still goes to school because he believes learning never ends.

He believes in the Big Bang, he believes in evolution, and he believes in natural selection. He believe the Torah is metaphorical, not meant to be taken literally.

He also believes in God.

But I would not call him stupid or not intelligent on any level. This man has held many long conversations with Atheists, and, indeed, many have a lot of respect for him. Some of these Atheists have even spoken in our synagogue (without challenging out beliefs, believe it or not).

I could say the same for Atheism. Let's be frank. All religions, including Atheism (Atheism does fall under the literal religious definition, which is NOT belief in a god so much as a belief in a doctrine, and Atheism does have a doctrine), have their fanatics.

I have seen Atheists literally proselytizing about there being no god. I have seen this. I have seen Atheists try and get religious people to abandon their religions.

So it exists within Atheism.

I also have to wonder where you live, because it seems your only experience has been with ultra-fanatical Christians and Muslims. I have to assume that you have not experienced the more moderate Christians and Muslims, no experience with many Pagan religions, nor have you had any experience with Jews.

As a Jew myself, I can speak best for us, so...

You are a lucky (or unlucky) person indeed if you have found a Jew who is a Creationist and believes in proselytizing and "saving the souls of non-Jews." Most Jews today... indeed, even the most fanatical... agree that Evolution and Natural Selection are more plausible then literal Creation, though as God's tools. In other words, Jews believe that what Darwin discovered is the real truth... but we believe that Darwin discovered the "how," not the "why."

Incorrect, simply because Theism was first. I say that because belief in God, or in many gods, came long before a belief that there is no god or are no gods.

So, in actuality, I would say your statement needs to be flipped.

I agree that God is not a fact. But unfortunately, that's the biggest problem Atheists have.

I present to you a concept known as "Faith." It is this concept that Atheists have either willfully or otherwise forgotten.

I understand your need for facts. I understand the want to believe in something you know because the evidence is their for it. But this is not true for all people. For me, I believe in God.

Do I know God exists? Would I say God's existence is fact?

Absolutely not. I do not know, and I have no facts for it. But I believe in God because I have faith in my belief.

Does that make me stupid, or of "lesser intelligence?"

I must admit to being quite insulted if you feel my faith makes me so. I believe in God because regardless of Nature, I see God everyday.

I love science. But I believe science has taken the mystery and the beauty of many things that were once beautiful and mysterious:

-The birth of a child

-The rising and setting sun

-The rising and setting moon

-Storms

-Natural Light

-The Circle of Life

I do NOT think science meant to make these things mundane when it described them. I believe science, in the beginning, was only trying to answer how God did what he did. But some people decided that these discoveries meant that there was no god, and suddenly the beautiful and miraculous became mundane and ordinary.

Yet, despite knowing how and why the above things happen, I still believe they are beautiful and miraculous, and through them I believe in God.

I'm not denying the science of these things. I'm not denying that the rising and setting sun is a perception, and the truth is we revolve around a generally stationary sun. I'm not denying what goes in to childbirth. I'm not denying the science behind storms, warm fronts, cold fronts, wind, etc. I'm not denying the science between a body's decay, blood-flow, etc. The facts are what science has shown and that is that.

But it doesn't make me believe any less in God because I have faith in God, and that concept... faith... is what you and others have forgotten. Faith means we don't need proof. We believe because we want to believe.

I am so glad that I'm not the only one. If you've read my posts (especially on the Robert Plant thread in the news section :D ) you'll see that I feel much the same way. honesty is the best policy, and if people have a problem with that, it's their concern, not mine.

So I say amen to this.

And I believe that like any weapon, it's not believing in God or gods, but who holds that belief that is dangerous. It's like guns... a gun, whether loaded or otherwise, lying in a desk in an empty room is no harm to anybody. What makes that gun harmful is the person who picks it up to use it.

It is the same with belief. Atheists can be just as dangerous as religions. If a group of Atheists feel that they have the truth and they must convert the world, and grow a doctrine that says they will kill those who don't stop believing in God and start believing in science, then I say to you that not believing in God is just as dangerous.

God him(her)self is no more dangerous then an untouched gun. Belief in God only becomes dangerous when the people with that belief intend to use it for the wrong reasons. God did not fight the Crusades, God did not start the Holocaust, and God (Allah) is not responsible for the fanatical Muslims and their current "Gihad." These and all other religious wars were started by men, fought by men, and ended by men. Religious control is not fronted by God... but by men. So God is not the cause of the danger. He may be the unfortunate excuse for it, but he is not that cause or the reason. It is the human being, plain and simple.

I have to wonder what idiot wrote this. I say that because the original Bible was NOT Greek! The original Bible is the Torah. It is the Hebrew Bible. The Greek Old Testament was simply an early translation (albeit riddled with mistakes... in fact, one mistake, inadvertently or purposely, created the false prophecy of the virgin birth... false because in truth, there was never a virgin birth prophecy... the actual prophecy talks about a young woman, recently married... not a virgin), and, according to some sources, may not even have been the first translation! If this site wants to talk about truth as it pertains to the bible, then it should be talking not about the Greek Hades, but the Hebrew Sheol.

Like I said 'God' is not a fact. It's a concept. At least you can see that, showing there's hope for you yet. I would suggest your first statement 'Your Rabbi,' makes you believe what he wishes you to believe. Sort of like herding cattle now isn't it? I refuse to be herded like cattle.

Athiests and Agnostics outnumber any ONE organized religion in America. But I wouldn't suggest attempting to herd them together.

As far as Theism being here first, that is highly unlikely.

I find your lack of reasoning is tainted by things which cannot be proven. I do however understand how if you are brainwashed all your life, you cannot change at this point. You would definitely look like a fool to all your associates.

Right?

As far as the web site goes. It was chosen much the same as the bible was....it was written, so it has to be accepted as fact and that's that.

I find believing these things to be morally incomprehensible for most religious people. That is not my issue, their morals are built on religion.

Just because something is comforting does not make it so. I wont hide or apologize for being correct either.

X=God

X=Comfort that you wont die?

X=Not getting tossed out of your congregation.

This does NOT imply that X=fact.

These things may rightly be true in your peer groups.....according to them. However your peer groups aren't worldwide. How many centuries has your religion been here now? How many centuries has the world been here? And your stating that Theism was here first?

Bring me your evidence on that.

Theism is more believed among the very intelligent elite?

Nope.

Theres nearly 7 Billion persons on this Earth between 2-3 Billion believe in some sort of god.

I don't have anything against you really. I could tell you a story that would blow your mind.

Do 'believe' this is all just discussion. And many Atheists simply wont discuss it at all.

I do feel this is changing.

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I can certainly understand why some people believe in God, I mean.....

large_web.jpg

web.jpg

large_web.jpg

large_web.jpg

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I don't know about you guys, but it made be made up of mostly toxic gases, but the universe is gorgeous

http://hubblesite.org/gallery/

Most people don't really think about the rest of the universe, its sort of like Earth's version of nationalism. Planetism...we aren't the only planet in the universe.

The light and the Science make these things gorgeous. Quite true. But like I said, to Nathan just because X=Pretty.......it does not make X=Only a God Can Create this because we cannot explain it and god knows all. I 'hope' you can see that.

I can see the association though, how you can see it. If that makes sense. You have been taught by media and persons all your life that god=beauty.

Gorgeous pictures though and thank you for them. I love pictures of the galaxy.

And I'm glad a portion of the world are allowed to be free thinkers.

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I don't get why people think that someone who doesn't believe in god (s) doesn't see the beauty in the world. Why is that? We experience love, joy,beauty, wonder like anyone else. I personally don't associate those things with a diety. Why is that so hard to grasp?

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I don't get why people think that someone who doesn't believe in god (s) doesn't see the beauty in the world. Why is that? We experience love, joy,beauty, wonder like anyone else. I personally don't associate those things with a diety. Why is that so hard to grasp?

Its not...I don't believe in God. But I do believe in trying (at least trying, I'm not saying I can) everyone's point of view.

Plus I just like arguing and playing Devil's advocate. :P

Someone doesn't have to believe in God to feel a sense of awe when looking at the stars on a clear dark night, or when seeing an amazing musician or band play.

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Most people don't really think about the rest of the universe, its sort of like Earth's version of nationalism. Planetism...we aren't the only planet in the universe.

Until we find any other planets that really matter to us, of course we're going to hold this "Planetism" (as you call it) way of thinking.

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I don't get why people think that someone who doesn't believe in god (s) doesn't see the beauty in the world. Why is that? We experience love, joy,beauty, wonder like anyone else. I personally don't associate those things with a diety. Why is that so hard to grasp?

It's all good, we should respect others beliefs or non beliefs. :hippy:

An atheist's creed

I believe in time,

matter, and energy,

which make up the whole of the world.

I believe in reason, evidence and the human mind,

the only tools we have;

they are the product of natural forces

in a majestic but impersonal universe,

grander and richer than we can imagine,

a source of endless opportunities for discovery.

I believe in the power of doubt;

I do not seek out reassurances,

but embrace the question,

and strive to challenge my own beliefs.

I accept human mortality.

We have but one life,

brief and full of struggle,

leavened with love and community,

learning and exploration,

beauty and the creation of

new life, new art, and new ideas.

I rejoice in this life that I have,

and in the grandeur of a world that preceded me,

and an earth that will abide without me.
B)

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Cool :D When I'm compost I feed the plants who feed the animals who feed the humans. So the circle of life doesn't need any more bells and whistles for me, cause I'm just thrilled by that alone! Maybe I just don't have expensive tastes :unsure:

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