wanna be drummer Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 There was a thread here a while ago that I doubt most remember. It told a story of suicide and how horrible it really is. Also, in many, if not most, of all suicide cases, despression can be found to be a big factor. I understand that depression, especially when it is extreme, can cause people to turn to suicide or drugs or alcohol. I would ask of you to never turn there, never go that far. Life is worth living, no matter how bad things may be. I'm starting this thread because a friend of mine passed away over the weekend from a heroin overdose. He was 18. The exact story of what happened is unknown as of this point, but what is known is that he was a depressed kid who turned to hard drugs a few years ago. He ODed a couple of times throughout our high school years together, but I never figured it would end up like this...he even admitted doing shit like that for the attention he claimed he never received. His depression was too hidden for most to notice. He always seemed like a pretty happy, funny kid. But that was just in school. I said he was my friend. I was friends with him in freshman year and simply stopped talking for a while. Afterall, he was just a school friend. He was an acquaitance at best for the rest of my high school years, but it's still hard to picture school without him. He will be missed. I'm sharing this with you simply because I feel the need to explain the dangers of hard drugs, and that theya re never an answer to anything, especially depression or a bad home life. Just please, don't end up like this. Life is too precious. Such a young man dying...it's simply wrong. RIP Andrew, I'll miss you bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I'm very sorry to hear of this loss. I will keep your friend in my prayers. May he rest in peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I remember that other thread, wanna be, and I'm really sorry to hear about your friend. Depression is such a cruel illness, particularly because so many people who suffer from it don't get help precisely because they ARE depressed. That's why I think it's so important for us all to keep an eye out for any friends or family members who aredisplaying any symptoms of this disease (and it is a disease) so that we can encourage them to get the help they need, and remind them they're not alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzldoc Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Lost my best friend when he was 30, looking back I think he may have been depressed. Alcohol did him in~Asphyxiation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigstickbonzo Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 When I was 15, and the rents had their nasty split on Christmas, The Wall was my exile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lzfan715 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I"m so sorry to hear about your loss. Warm wishes to you and the family. Depression is a horrible, no should suffer from that. Aqua is right, everyone should help watch out for everyone. Drugs are another situation, they affect just as many people as depression. The signs are somtimes more prevailent, sometimes not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake of Shadows Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I remember that thread... some really good and helpful things got discussed as a result. Wannabe, I'm sorry for your loss, and for your friend's family. Depression and drug use can certainly play on each other. Sometimes things with either one or both can really spiral out of control with lasting and devastating results for the individuals and for their families and friends. Help IS out there... and things do not have to be hopeless. Sometimes the person can manage to seek out help on their own, sometimes they need a bit of assistance. But, there is help... and there is hope. Thank you for posting this and maybe someone somewhere will find it helpful. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I had a friend attempt suicide at age 17, thankfully the survived, but the person I knew and loved was effectively dead from that point on, in my mind. It was a very difficult time and I feel for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabbalahone Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I remember that thread... some really good and helpful things got discussed as a result. Wannabe, I'm sorry for your loss, and for your friend's family. Depression and drug use can certainly play on each other. Sometimes things with either one or both can really spiral out of control with lasting and devastating results for the individuals and for their families and friends. Help IS out there... and things do not have to be hopeless. Sometimes the person can manage to seek out help on their own, sometimes they need a bit of assistance. But, there is help... and there is hope. Thank you for posting this and maybe someone somewhere will find it helpful. Peace. Regards from me too. A few years ago, I took a job that I had to walk to. 40 minutes each way, and I was standing on my feet all day for work. But I made a habit of saying hello to everyone I saw. After a few weeks, some folks who knew what time I walked by, would be in their windows waving hi as I walked by. I started making a habit out of saying hello to almost everyone I see whenever I am walking. I take a class at a library in one of the supposedly roughest parts of town. The people there, when you say hi, are especially friendly and quick to say hi back. These are some folk that most people wouldn't even dare attempt to say hello to. I think something as simple as breaking out of our personal shells, not only helps us feel better, but the people we approach. Last week I was walking with my neighbors and a man stopped me and told me that I had the kind of smile that not only made anyone who sees me smile, but makes the world a much better place. That totally tripped me out. Before I took that job, I was beyond depressed. I had PTSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzldoc Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Regards from me too. A few years ago, I took a job that I had to walk to. 40 minutes each way, and I was standing on my feet all day for work. But I made a habit of saying hello to everyone I saw. After a few weeks, some folks who knew what time I walked by, would be in their windows waving hi as I walked by. I started making a habit out of saying hello to almost everyone I see whenever I am walking. I take a class at a library in one of the supposedly roughest parts of town. The people there, when you say hi, are especially friendly and quick to say hi back. These are some folk that most people wouldn't even dare attempt to say hello to. I think something as simple as breaking out of our personal shells, not only helps us feel better, but the people we approach. Last week I was walking with my neighbors and a man stopped me and told me that I had the kind of smile that not only made anyone who sees me smile, but makes the world a much better place. That totally tripped me out. Before I took that job, I was beyond depressed. I had PTSD. That is very admirable of you. That is why I love New Orleans so much, people will just stop to say hello ya know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I have got a horsey Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 There was a thread here a while ago that I doubt most remember. It told a story of suicide and how horrible it really is. Also, in many, if not most, of all suicide cases, despression can be found to be a big factor. I understand that depression, especially when it is extreme, can cause people to turn to suicide or drugs or alcohol. I would ask of you to never turn there, never go that far. Life is worth living, no matter how bad things may be. I sensitively disagree. I mean I certainly don't recommend it and I know suicide has a terrible impact on the lives of people around them. But I think if life is worth living then death is worth dying, and I take my hat off to anybody who finds some comfort in wanting to die than being wracked with a fear of death. I do think we have a tendency to over-emphasize the fulfillment of life, and I know with some people life just never worked out for them, and they really did not enjoy their time alive and didn't want to be medicated for the rest of their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marolyn Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 i think you are unfairly comparing an unhappy addicted individual with somebody who has a painful terminal illness...two totally different circumstances... i had a brother addicted 7 years to heroin/methadone and discovered all the information out there tells these individuals that they will never be able to get off the stuff...gives them a 5 percent chance of recovery which basically leaves them feeling helpless, depressed and resigned to their situation... i think this information put out by the professionals is not accurate as there are some who are getting off on their own that are not reflected in any statisitical data... i sat with him for 3 weeks while he detoxed and it was not fun...but he is now 2 years clean, got his act together, joined the military and will be returning from iraq next week...i couldn't be more proud of him and try to spead the news that it is possible to get off the stuff...just don't pay attention to the statistics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 Are you talking to me or IHGAH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mernie Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I remember that other thread, wanna be, and I'm really sorry to hear about your friend. Depression is such a cruel illness, particularly because so many people who suffer from it don't get help precisely because they ARE depressed. That's why I think it's so important for us all to keep an eye out for any friends or family members who aredisplaying any symptoms of this disease (and it is a disease) so that we can encourage them to get the help they need, and remind them they're not alone. This is so true. It took me over 35 years to seek help for my depression. I just posted on the mental health thread recently (so I won't rehash it again here) and then saw this thread. I lost my brother to suicide 20 years ago, and it is truly a horrible thing for the people who are left to carry on. In more recent years, my kids have had several friends and classmates commit suicide either directly or indirectly through drugs. Wanna be, I'm very sorry about your loss. The pain will never go away, but it does get a little more bearable (it has for me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I have got a horsey Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 i think you are unfairly comparing an unhappy addicted individual with somebody who has a painful terminal illness...two totally different circumstances... Well not necessarily What I'm talking about is one's appreciation of existing being of variable perception as with everying else in existence. I'm not talking about euthanasia. What I mean is, I personally don't believe in any concluding value of a 'lived' life. Life is basically a continuum of experiences that are connected through real time. I don't think it makes much difference, in the long run, whether that continuum of experience is stopped now or in 20 years time. I guess it all comes down to what your personal beliefs are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 So what you're saying is that it wouldn't bother you if a relatively normal, happy person decided to experience death without fear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marolyn Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Well not necessarily What I'm talking about is one's appreciation of existing being of variable perception as with everying else in existence. I'm not talking about euthanasia. What I mean is, I personally don't believe in any concluding value of a 'lived' life. Life is basically a continuum of experiences that are connected through real time. I don't think it makes much difference, in the long run, whether that continuum of experience is stopped now or in 20 years time. I guess it all comes down to what your personal beliefs are. yet i believe that anticipating future life events greatly enhances the perceived quality of your current life situation...which i agree is possibly a more relevent measure than the total length of your life...hence, the drug addict needs to know there are better days ahead instead of thinking "i will never be able to get off the stuff" in order to be able to enjoy an improved quality of life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepyep Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Hi some people, I mean I certainly don't recommend it and I know suicide has a terrible impact on the lives of people around them. Nice to know! But I think if life is worth living then death is worth dying, and I take my hat off to anybody who finds some comfort in wanting to die than being wracked with a fear of death. Comfort in dying? Are you talking about? We are talking about depression,not terminal illness ,.... I do think we have a tendency to over-emphasize the fulfillment of life, and I know with some people life just never worked out for them, and they really did not enjoy their time alive and didn't want to be medicated for the rest of their lives. Who is we? Have you ever worked in the mental health field? KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake of Shadows Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 i had a brother addicted 7 years to heroin/methadone and discovered all the information out there tells these individuals that they will never be able to get off the stuff...gives them a 5 percent chance of recovery which basically leaves them feeling helpless, depressed and resigned to their situation... i think this information put out by the professionals is not accurate as there are some who are getting off on their own that are not reflected in any statisitical data... i sat with him for 3 weeks while he detoxed and it was not fun...but he is now 2 years clean, got his act together, joined the military and will be returning from iraq next week...i couldn't be more proud of him and try to spead the news that it is possible to get off the stuff...just don't pay attention to the statistics... Yeah, that's the problem with 'statistics'. My understanding is that 5% refers to those people who try to get clean and stay clean without any kind of treatment and without any kind of 'ongoing support' such as a 12 Step program (Narcotics Anonymous, Alcoholics Anonymous, etc.). Addicts who go into some form of treatment program and some kind of ongoing thing like NA have a much better chance of 'making it'. Kudos to your brother... and kudos to you for being there for him. You are right though... whether the 'recovery rate' is 5%, 50%, or 95%... there is always hope. ~~~~~~~~~~ Horsey, I think I know what you mean... in terms of life and living, 'longevity' does not automatically mean 'quality'. In fact, they can be totally independent of each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I sensitively disagree. I mean I certainly don't recommend it and I know suicide has a terrible impact on the lives of people around them. But I think if life is worth living then death is worth dying, and I take my hat off to anybody who finds some comfort in wanting to die than being wracked with a fear of death. I do think we have a tendency to over-emphasize the fulfillment of life, and I know with some people life just never worked out for them, and they really did not enjoy their time alive and didn't want to be medicated for the rest of their lives. This is just rhetoric. It overlooks the obvious point that there are ways that people suffering from depression can relearn to want to live. Wanting to live is not remotely the same as being wracked with a fear of death, and, of the two, life is generally perceived to be better because it's something whereas death is nothing. And a good something is infinitely better than--well, nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I have got a horsey Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 So what you're saying is that it wouldn't bother you if a relatively normal, happy person decided to experience death without fear? I would admire them for their courage hence, the drug addict needs to know there are better days ahead instead of thinking "i will never be able to get off the stuff" in order to be able to enjoy an improved quality of life... That's a very valid point This is just rhetoric. It overlooks the obvious point that there are ways that people suffering from depression can relearn to want to live. Wanting to live is not remotely the same as being wracked with a fear of death, and, of the two, life is generally perceived to be better because it's something whereas death is nothing. And a good something is infinitely better than--well, nothing. I don't think you really understand what I'm talking about But this argument is purely subjective so I'm afraid you can't really say to me that my post is just "rhetoric", because you have absolutely no idea whether life is better than death. And you may think that life is a something that is better than a nothing, that's fine, but to me you're merely avoiding the inevitable. I haven't attacked anybody else's opinion on this subject, I have made the point previously it's all up to what you believe personally, so please extend me the same courtesy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabbalahone Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 That is very admirable of you. That is why I love New Orleans so much, people will just stop to say hello ya know! I've never been there. I couldn't believe some of the stuff some tele evangelists were saying after Hurricane Katrina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marolyn Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Yeah, that's the problem with 'statistics'. My understanding is that 5% refers to those people who try to get clean and stay clean without any kind of treatment and without any kind of 'ongoing support' such as a 12 Step program (Narcotics Anonymous, Alcoholics Anonymous, etc.). Addicts who go into some form of treatment program and some kind of ongoing thing like NA have a much better chance of 'making it'. no, actually in regards to heroin recovery specifically, those numbers include all forms of treatment. he had tried all kinds of programs, but all of them seemed to be trading something for something...always acknowledging that you were a slave to "something"... he just did a 180 turn and said...i'm done, i'm not a slave to any drug or any therapy.. they promote the methodone program as the best solution and convince individuals it is just like a diabetic taking insulin. the pharmaceutical companies are making big money off these government subsidized programs and it's in their best interest to promote those statistics. from the research i did prepping for this i learned that the most likely to get off (those 5%)were doctors or lawyers (those who were threatened with the loss of their license)...when you read those studies you see that obviously, it is not a hopeless situation...if it requires something over your head, i could supply that..just told him, he didn't want his big sis flying all the way from norway to make his life hell for 3 weeks ever again...cuz i'd do it...worked like a charm... [for anybody out there...we took it day by day, just focusing on getting that day behind us...day 12 was the worst for him...if you can make it through day 12 you know know you are past the hump...i think having that knowledge is very powerful as it was the not knowing when it would end that caused him to give up so many times in the past] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 I would admire them for their courage I think you mean their stupidity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I lost my brother to suicide it is truly a horrible thing for the people who are left to carry on. Me, too, and yes indeed. Thank you for starting this thread, Wannabe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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