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FireOpal

Robert still [hearts] Elvis, but Aretha is #1

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Wow, you sure turned this into a personal thing, hey asshole ! You can guess all you want about my lifestyle, but I don't need to impress anyone and have no intention of that. You make some pretty ridiculous assumptions you have no idea about.

You take a post I generalize on as YOUR OWN, and make attacks. What a dick !

Fuck you.

You're the fucking idiot who "doesn't pay taxes" and expects everyone else to do think that it's cool.You're the dick around here.Fuck you,the truth hurts,doesn't it? You're a piece a shit that needs no recognition.Come back as someone else,like you always do!Grow up old man!

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You're the fucking idiot who "doesn't pay taxes" and expects everyone else to do think that it's cool.You're the dick around here.Fuck you,the truth hurts,doesn't it? You're a piece a shit that needs no recognition.Come back as someone else,like you always do!Grow up old man!

You brought this to a PERSONAL attack fuckwad. You have no idea 'why' I don't pay taxes. You make an assumption that I'm an idiot for it, maybe it's just smart strategy, planning, execution. LOTS of corporations pay NO taxes.

Fuck off with your attacks. I'm lowering myself to your display in defense and should just ignore it, but you need to have your ATTACK pointed out for others to see.

I make a post about the popularity of the singers on the list, a general statement about how I think it's so stale in a sense, you bring in other shit and fuck with me...

NOW....YOU FUCK OFF.

What's the matter? Not over your little messaging/phone calls with Moonchild a while ago that Kyna found out about and was bothered for a while ? Ask her about it if you don't already know. Wanna see the correspondence ? I save that stuff.

Your personal attack against me here with NO personal provocation is worthy of banning. Let's see if the mods treat you as they should. You're not above it anymore than anyone else.

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Sorry, I happen to like technically good voices. It doesn't have to be all about technique, but it is important to me. It's what my ear likes to hear. Maybe your ear likes something different. To each his/her own.

Of course Dylan was a huge impact. He's an incredible musician and songwriter. He's unique and one-of-a-kind. I just don't happen to be crazy about his voice.

I have always paid attention, and no, I'm not really young. I saw Zeppelin live if that gives you a general idea of my generation.

I like technically good voices, too. Plenty of them on the list, as well. The question was, why is Dylan higher on the list than Plant? (Speaking of technical, try singing "Tangled Up in Blue" if you think Dylan didn't have technique - sling a harmonica around your neck and play the guitar at the same time, too, for the full effect.)

Dylan's voice has a quality to it that was not mainstream or commerical, or pretty, or expected. Same is true for his songwriting. His success paved the way for other people whose voices and songs weren't mainstream, perfect, commerical, etc.

I believe we are talking apples and oranges here, you are talking aesthetics and I am talking influence. Although I love Dylan aesthetically, too - maybe it's an acquired taste, like learning to like dark beer. As you say, to each their own.

Without Dylan, I'm fairly sure not even Plant would've been able to take off the way he did. Dylan expanded the canvas of what was acceptable almost single-handedly.

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I think I'd say that Dylan opened up a whole other vista of possibilities for singers and songwriters, and was without doubt enormously influential--yet, many of the existing possibilities remained, for example technically proficient singers have never stopped being popular. Expanded the canvas is a good way to put it, but of course even before him there were popular singers whose voices couldn't be described as pretty, even in the commercial pop world--John Lennon hollering Twist and Shout, for example.

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Greatest singers in the "Rock Era".....a pretty meaningless categorization. But here's some of my favorites of whatever style:

1. Roy Orbison: Many of his songs were a little too "poppy" for my tastes - but not one could touch his range.

2. Robert Plant (of course)

3. George Jones: The greatest country singer who ever drew breath.

4. Paul Rodgers

5. Van Morrison

6. Joni Mitchell

7. Merle Haggard

8. Kate Bush

9. Waylon Jennings

10. Sandy Denny

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Too bad lyrical abilities were not included with the poll.Plant would have placed no lower than third overall.

I don't take these polls too much to heart. It's so subjective. Some I agree with - Elvis, Aretha, Sam Cooke, Ray Charles etc. No denying their incredible vocals. John Lennon, while I like his voice, he like Dylan I think of more as stronger lyricists than singers.

Two things:

1. Do we even know how this pole was conducted. Who it was given to? What were the criteria that singers were judged on?

Magazines always leave this stuff out. It's really annoying. It makes me think that they just went with whatever the hell they felt like.

They may have had some sort of objective process to it, but if they did we'll never know, so I assume it's crap.

2. This poll's problem is that it's attempting to mix singing with songwriting. It assumes that they always go hand in hand. If you changed the topic to "100 Greatest Singer/Songwriters", there would be a lot more people placing in front of Elvis and Aretha.

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Two things:

1. Do we even know how this pole was conducted. Who it was given to? What were the criteria that singers were judged on?

Magazines always leave this stuff out. It's really annoying. It makes me think that they just went with whatever the hell they felt like.

They may have had some sort of objective process to it, but if they did we'll never know, so I assume it's crap.

2. This poll's problem is that it's attempting to mix singing with songwriting. It assumes that they always go hand in hand. If you changed the topic to "100 Greatest Singer/Songwriters", there would be a lot more people placing in front of Elvis and Aretha.

All we/I know is what was stated in FireOpal's original post, that it was given to 179 musicians, producers, Rolling Stone editors, and other music-industry insiders.

Otherwise, I doubt there was or even can be any objective element, given that there's not some scientific test that would prove who's the best singer, so these things will always be subjective (and thus to some degree crap). (Personally I can't choose between Orbison and Joplin, who couldn't have more different types of voices if they tried, so even from a subjective viewpoint it's almost impossible.)

With you on no. 2.

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I like technically good voices, too. Plenty of them on the list, as well. The question was, why is Dylan higher on the list than Plant? (Speaking of technical, try singing "Tangled Up in Blue" if you think Dylan didn't have technique - sling a harmonica around your neck and play the guitar at the same time, too, for the full effect.)

Dylan's voice has a quality to it that was not mainstream or commerical, or pretty, or expected. Same is true for his songwriting. His success paved the way for other people whose voices and songs weren't mainstream, perfect, commerical, etc.

I believe we are talking apples and oranges here, you are talking aesthetics and I am talking influence. Although I love Dylan aesthetically, too - maybe it's an acquired taste, like learning to like dark beer. As you say, to each their own.

Without Dylan, I'm fairly sure not even Plant would've been able to take off the way he did. Dylan expanded the canvas of what was acceptable almost single-handedly.

Ok, I see what you're saying. Aesthetics v. influence does make a lot of sense to me. Initially, the idea of a greatest singers list makes me think of aesthetics more than anything else. So maybe I am stuck on pretty voices and need to expand my tastes a little.

I have a friend who is absolutely nuts about Dylan. Last party we were at, there was a live band and she got up and sang several Dylan songs. Even chastised the band because they cut her short and didn't let her sing all the verses to one particular song! I've never delved into a discussion with her about him before, but I'm going to pick her brain next time we get together and specifically mention this list to get her thoughts. Maybe have some dark beer too. :D

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