Modern Drumming.

[Jarlaxle 56]

You're either high, or not a drummer, or both.

Listen to what other drummers in popular bands of his era were doing and how their kits sounded....THAT'S how you measure Ringo....not Ringo against drum sounds/playing from many yrs later. His sound was to his era what Bonham's was to his era. Both Sir G.Martin, and Glyn Johns/Eddie Kramer ,repectfully, deserve alot of credit for their "sound".

Obviously I wasn't being literal when I said he play the exact same thing over again

But you can't say he invented any particular style or sound, the basic drum rock beat style that Ringo used was already around. And the slightly more advanced fills that he plays on songs like "A Day In The Life" were already being done with much much more skill by Jazz drummers, like Mitch Mitchell for instance. He is, in my opinion, the most talented and conveniently overlooked rock drummer of the 60s. So, you said to listen to other drummers from that time period, maybe you should listen to the Jimi Hendrix Experience, and some Frank Zappa from that time period? I mean, even bands like The Kinks have a better drum sound than The Beatles. Maybe it's the bad recordings, but he sounds exactly like all of his contemporaries from the early sixties, and then onwards when the drumming gets better on later Beatles records he was already being far surpassed by other rock drummers.

Also, to the person who said Portnoy was influenced by Ringo, I'd like a source for that.

[IGG]

Also, to the person who said Portnoy was influenced by Ringo, I'd like a source for that.

I know it wasn't me who dropped the factoid on Portnoy/Ringo, but i'd read the same thing.

Interview with Mike Portnoy

I had a long chat with Mike Portnoy about his latest Liquid Tension Experiment project with John Petrucci, Tony Levin, and Jordan Rudess. Here are the highlights.

Is there anything beyond the liner notes [which includes comprehensive information about how the project evolved] that you'd like to add about your selection of the musicians, especially John Petrucci for a guitar player?

Yeah, I was thinking that I'd never have to do another interview again after writing those liner notes. When the project started, I wanted to keep it completely separate from Dream Theater. It became really hard to find a guitar player who also was a team player. No one came through and the idea of working with John [Petrucci] came up. Now I am glad we did work together. Working with John provided a good chemistry and it would have harder to compose the way we did if we had a different guitarist since John and I had been writing together for a long time [in Dream Theater]. The direction of the project was dictated by the four of us, and the sound would've been completely different if we had another guitarist.

How was it working with Tony Levin and Jordan Rudess?

I had worked with Jordan in the past. He did a show with Dream Theatre after Kevin [Moore, former keyboardist] left the band and that's when I discovered how utterly terrific he is. He is the most incredible keyboard player I've ever seen and I knew I'd want to work with him. Working with Tony was really cool. It was an honour for me that we worked together. He's worked with everyone from Paul Simon to Pink Floyd to King Crimson to Yes. I knew he would be able to do anything we threw at him.

The release appears to be more oriented towards heavy metal than progressive rock?

That's probably because of me and John. I think the sound is a mix of Dream Theater, Dixie Dregs, and King Crimson, which is obvious when you think of the band members. The heavier side came from John and me. The moody stuff is from Tony.

Are there any plans for a tour of the U.S.?

We'd love to do it. All four of us have talked about it and obviously there's a demand for it. It's all going to come down to our schedules. Finding a couple of weeks or a month to tour will be hard, but not out of the question. My dream is to do a tour along with side projects other members of Dream Theater have done.

Is this an ongoing project, i.e., will we see more albums, or is it just a one-time deal?

It started out as a one-time deal. Depending on our schedules we'd love to do it again, though our priority is to do a tour first.

With Dream Theatre, you were one of the few progressive rock bands to break it into the mainstream. Why do you think it's difficult for progressive rock to become popular in the mainstream?

It's due to the fact that most record companies don't want to put the effort to develop a band like ours. This kind of music takes nurturing and the record labels put out what's going to be the easy sell. That's the biggest reason. I really appreciate a label like Magna Carta. Even though it is much smaller, it is giving opportunity to less known bands. Magna Carta was the one that asked me to do the Liquid Tension Experiment project and I'm very grateful to them for it. I'm very supportive of what they do.

I do however feel very good to be on a major label [Dream Theater is on EastWest], because we can break through on a level that we couldn't on a smaller label, but there are always ups and downs.

So what are the ups and downs?

Ups: We have greater exposure that a lot of other progressive bands haven't had. Fates Warning, for example, have had more albums than us, and have been around a lot longer, but sell a lot less than we do because of label exposure.

Downs: The corporate people we deal with also have to deal with bands ranging from En Vogue to Metallica. It's very easy for a band like us to get brushed under the carpet.

What is your view on the other supergroup project by Magna Carta, Black Light Syndrome featuring Tony Levin, Terry Bozzio, and Steve Stevens?

It's great. When we did Liquid Tension Experiment, we used that as a reference point. Black Light Syndrome was less song oriented than what we did. We thought of making an whole album of Three minute Warning type of songs, but we decided to take a more song-oriented approach.

Are there any plans to release the songs that didn't make it into Dream Theatre's latest, Falling into Infinity?

Speak to Me was on the Japanese release of the album. The other songs will get released someday in one way or another. We will either release the demos as B-sides or re-record them for the next album.

Dream Theatre is a band with hundreds of bootlegs. What's your view on bootlegs, especially since I've heard you yourself are a collector?

I'm the kind of a person where if I see a red light from a video camera in the audience I'll give them duct tape to cover it up. The other guys in the band are probably more likely to notify security.

I am for bootlegs, because I know what the fans want and what their intentions are. They're doing it because they want to get as much material as possible. I myself collect Beatles bootlegs and Zeppelin bootlegs. I'd get into the car and drive six hours to see Roger Waters so I understand the fan mentality. The other members look at it as if somebody is making money off of the band. They get concerned with the inability to quality control, afraid that people might hear the bootlegs and think it's a real Dream Theatre album.

But aren't those valid claims (making money and lack of quality control)?

Well, the record companies make money off of us. I think the only people that are going to buy the bootlegs are the real fans. If we were making those products, then I'd probably object to the bootlegs. I don't object to bootlegs of live recordings or sound check recordings that fans can't otherwise get and will never be officially released.

Regarding the quality, some of them are great and some of them are horrible. But I think if we make mistakes during a live show, that should be open for the public to hear.

Is there any chance the Majesty demos will ever be produced?

Not by us. Everybody would rather look towards the future. The demos are heavily bootlegged and people who want the demos can try that avenue.

What's your favourite music? That is, what music does the band listen to and currently like? Who would you cite as influences, particularly for your drum work?

I love lots of different music, particularly heavier stuff such as Machine Head Pantera, Slayer. I also like bands like the Beatles, Pink Floyd, Queen, Jelly Fish and US. Radiohead is one of my favourite contemporary bands.

As far as influences, I have been influenced by John Bonham, Keith Moon, Ringo Starr, and progressive drummers such as Terry Bozzio, Bill Bruford, and Neil Peart.

So what's coming in the future?

We're doing a gig tonight at Fort Worth, Texas which is one of our last shows. Then we take a break and we're off to Europe where we'll play some cool festivals. We'll do a U.S. tour with Deep Purple later in the fall. In the long run, we hope to continue to make records and create more, while fans holding on to the old ones as well.

[Honeydripper]

I'm with you all the way on them knowing how to record him, and in context it's the start of a logical progression. I also despise Kevin Shirley, but not for compression, for pro-tools edits and i would disagree that compression and limiters kill live drums, in fact I would argue quite the opposite. The Zeppelin sound is all compressors/limiters! Where would "When The Levee Breaks" be without heaping loads of 1176 with the all in button!

Well haveing heard the Shirley pre production rough mixes (unedited) from HTWW and having the spectrum analysis on the final product for comparison.......it very well could have been ...and likey was done during mastering........the overall levels are pushed to the extreme, then compressed ...leaving what live Zep is all about...dynamics, clipped to death. It makes getting hit crisply with a tight glove by a heavyweight champ feel like getting hit by a big oversized glove by a big fat 350 lb guy. Shirley can not take all the blame though....it's par for the course in all of today's productions. Million dollar high quality studio productions mastered for optimum mp3 listening. WTF has this world come to?? Music quality is going backwards.

[Laughter]

Soo... no distinct style or major impression on drumming.

[PJD]

Well haveing heard the Shirley pre production rough mixes (unedited) from HTWW and having the spectrum analysis on the final product for comparison.......it very well could have been ...and likey was done during mastering........the overall levels are pushed to the extreme, then compressed ...leaving what live Zep is all about...dynamics, clipped to death. It makes getting hit crisply with a tight glove by a heavyweight champ feel like getting hit by a big oversized glove by a big fat 350 lb guy. Shirley can not take all the blame though....it's par for the course in all of today's productions. Million dollar high quality studio productions mastered for optimum mp3 listening. WTF has this world come to?? Music quality is going backwards.

Amen b rother. I am tired of records that are crushed in Mastering. I'd love to hear those roughs!

[Bonham]

I know it wasn't me who dropped the factoid on Portnoy/Ringo, but i'd read the same thing.

Interview with Mike Portnoy

I am for bootlegs, because I know what the fans want and what their intentions are. They're doing it because they want to get as much material as possible. I myself collect Beatles bootlegs and Zeppelin bootlegs. I'd get into the car and drive six hours to see Roger Waters so I understand the fan mentality. The other members look at it as if somebody is making money off of the band. They get concerned with the inability to quality control, afraid that people might hear the bootlegs and think it's a real Dream Theatre album.

But aren't those valid claims (making money and lack of quality control)?

Well, the record companies make money off of us. I think the only people that are going to buy the bootlegs are the real fans. If we were making those products, then I'd probably object to the bootlegs. I don't object to bootlegs of live recordings or sound check recordings that fans can't otherwise get and will never be officially released.

Regarding the quality, some of them are great and some of them are horrible. But I think if we make mistakes during a live show, that should be open for the public to hear.

I love lots of different music, particularly heavier stuff such as Machine Head Pantera, Slayer. I also like bands like the Beatles, Pink Floyd, Queen, Jelly Fish and US. Radiohead is one of my favourite contemporary bands.

As far as influences, I have been influenced by John Bonham, Keith Moon, Ringo Starr, and progressive drummers such as Terry Bozzio, Bill Bruford, and Neil Peart.

This is the only interesting part of that interview - what a bore that was. Who likes Dream Theatre anyway?

[zero]

lol. i'm failing to recall a single song by them , knowing i've heard many. must be a

protective psychological reaction.

" Liquid Tension Experiment project " wtf is that?

sounds like a reason bath houses were shut

down in the early eighties

people start coining phrases like this when they run out of clever ideas. the whole idea they have in mind is, they hope people read it and go "oh it's mysterious and over my head, must be geniuses at work"

[Henrik]

The only two Beatles songs I know Ringo doesn't drum on are "Back in the U.S.S.R." and the single version of "Love Me Do."

Paul plays drums on The Ballad of John & Yoko too, infact only he and John appears on that track.

[Popeyedrums]

Believe it or not someone I know claims that Ringo Starr is the best drummer ever. I find it laughable but whose drumming do we really hear more in modern drumming. My inclination is to say Bonham without a doubt. Yet I do not know Ringo's nuances. What do more deeper Beatles fans think?

I think that this is a difficult question to answer in a brief manner. I am a drummer so I will try to offer my opinion.

People who are influenced by others can show this influence in various ways. It could be replicating the type of playing the person used or it could be by imitating the drum sound. Both drummers were in popular bands so they get credit for being visionaries while lesser known drummers who may have been doing things the same way or better may have been over looked (some people say Carmine Appice was the first real rock drummer) .

While I do not think Ringo is as technically as proficient as Bonzo, he has influenced many drummers that came after him. His gift to drumming is more subtle than Bonzo's so it is harder to trace. He made it popular to play "open" hi-hats and he also made it popular for the drummer to play "clean". What i mean is Ringo didn't do a fill or hit a crash cymbal on every beat or between the sentences in the vocals to fill space like Keith Moon and other drummers of that time did. This probably was the clincher that got him the gig. With the Beatles, the song came first, so all of the musicians played their role and stayed within bounds. The Beatles are a great example of why a band does not have to be made up of people who are masters of their instruments in order to be successful or in order to create great music. A problem with tracing Ringo's legacy to drumming is that, yes, it is true that he did not drum on all tracks. Paul McCartney played a lot of the drums in the studio so that his songs went just as he wanted them. There is also rumors that studio drummers filled in for some of their recordings. Because of this it is difficult to tell which songs he played on and it also makes him look weak as a drummer.

Now to Bonham. It is no doubt that his contribution to drumming was huge. He was the first drummer to have a drum sound that sounded like "drums" - and not like he was playing on stacks of paper. This can be attributed to his large drum sizes, fantastic knowledge of the tuning process, and the innovative recording process that were used and of course the way he hit those suckers. I have read they often placed his kit in large rooms or entry ways of houses to take advantage of the natural reverb. He also had a very distinguishible snare sound which was pretty ground breaking and he also brought the kick or bass drum up into the recording mix which was usually "buried" in those days. This brought about the thunderous beats that he became famous for because you could actually hear his kick drum at almost the volume of his snare: Boom...Tat...Boom,Boom...Tat !!! Not only do a lot of drummers immitate this, many newer artists just plain out sample this beat to impliment into their own songs as the back beat.

I guess the answer from me to this question is Bonham!

peace!

[mstork]

I'd personally argue that Ringo is one of the most underrated drummers in popular music. He definitely influenced SHITLOADS of drummers that came well before Bonham's underlings. Sure Bonham was a powerhouse drummer, but Ringo probably caused more ludwig kits to be sold than Bonham ever did. Don't get me wrong, I too think Bonham is the better of the two, but to say Ringo did'nt leave a mark on rock drumming is absurd. Just listen to things like Tomorrow Never Knows, or Everybody's Got Something to Hide(except for me and my monkey).

Ringo did'nt suck, that's for sure.....he was.....like Bonham and JPJ in their time, overshadowed by the men that fronted the band.

I couldn't agree more. Do you have any idea how many people the Beatles inspired and influenced? Well it wasn't just limited to songwriters, guitarists, and bass players. It was drummers too.

This reminds me of the "who's the best guitarist" threads we usually throw down in around here. The answer is always the same; it's a matter of taste.

John Bonham is my favorite and for my money the most influential too. but Ringo is easily one of my favorites and hugely influential as well...

[Honeydripper]

I think that this is a difficult question to answer in a brief manner. I am a drummer so I will try to offer my opinion.

People who are influenced by others can show this influence in various ways. It could be replicating the type of playing the person used or it could be by imitating the drum sound. Both drummers were in popular bands so they get credit for being visionaries while lesser known drummers who may have been doing things the same way or better may have been over looked (some people say Carmine Appice was the first real rock drummer) .

While I do not think Ringo is as technically as proficient as Bonzo, he has influenced many drummers that came after him. His gift to drumming is more subtle than Bonzo's so it is harder to trace. He made it popular to play "open" hi-hats and he also made it popular for the drummer to play "clean". What i mean is Ringo didn't do a fill or hit a crash cymbal on every beat or between the sentences in the vocals to fill space like Keith Moon and other drummers of that time did. This probably was the clincher that got him the gig. With the Beatles, the song came first, so all of the musicians played their role and stayed within bounds. The Beatles are a great example of why a band does not have to be made up of people who are masters of their instruments in order to be successful or in order to create great music. A problem with tracing Ringo's legacy to drumming is that, yes, it is true that he did not drum on all tracks. Paul McCartney played a lot of the drums in the studio so that his songs went just as he wanted them. There is also rumors that studio drummers filled in for some of their recordings. Because of this it is difficult to tell which songs he played on and it also makes him look weak as a drummer.

Now to Bonham. It is no doubt that his contribution to drumming was huge. He was the first drummer to have a drum sound that sounded like "drums" - and not like he was playing on stacks of paper. This can be attributed to his large drum sizes, fantastic knowledge of the tuning process, and the innovative recording process that were used and of course the way he hit those suckers. I have read they often placed his kit in large rooms or entry ways of houses to take advantage of the natural reverb. He also had a very distinguishible snare sound which was pretty ground breaking and he also brought the kick or bass drum up into the recording mix which was usually "buried" in those days. This brought about the thunderous beats that he became famous for because you could actually hear his kick drum at almost the volume of his snare: Boom...Tat...Boom,Boom...Tat !!! Not only do a lot of drummers immitate this, many newer artists just plain out sample this beat to impliment into their own songs as the back beat.

I guess the answer from me to this question is Bonham!

peace!

I'd change one word in your Boham synopsis. From "first to"....to "first in rock to"....Bonham's kit, tuning, and even his solos(including playing w/ his hands!) are carbon copies of the great big band /jazz masters. One need only scour the vids in the Drummersworld website and look at Rich, Krupa, Morello, and others to realize this. Bonham was indeed as physically talented as anyone....well maybe not Rich...that man was friggin CRAZY talented!....but most Zep fans fail to look into other genres to actually see Bonham's direct influences and give him sole credit for things that came long before.

[Honeydripper]

Here's your Bonham influence lesson for the day.

Joe Morello http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/joemorello1961.html (familiar??)

Here's two of the best ever at the same time Krupa and Rich.....notice the kits...oversized kick, single mounted tom, 2 floor toms.....familiar??) http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrichkrupabattle.html

More of Buddy Rich

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrich1978.html (there are dozens more of him on that site)

The typical big band/jazz drum solo is pretty much what Bonham did night in and night out.....early on the snare, into the toms, then a thunderous finish. Pretty much the same with most drum solos from the 50's/60's on in the Big Band genre.

See, I personally attribute Zep's ability to stand out far and beyond all the other rock acts was that they had a Soul crooner for a singer, a Big Band/Jazz drummer, and a Blues Guitarist....all held fast by a super versitile backbone on bass and keys. No other rock band before or since had all those flavors in their mix. And no kids trying to be a rock band today, thinking they can follow a stright path to Zep without exploring all the genres of Zep's influnce will ever come close.

[mstork]

Here's your Bonham influence lesson for the day.

Joe Morello http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/joemorello1961.html (familiar??)

Here's two of the best ever at the same time Krupa and Rich.....notice the kits...oversized kick, single mounted tom, 2 floor toms.....familiar??) http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrichkrupabattle.html

More of Buddy Rich

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrich1978.html (there are dozens more of him on that site)

The typical big band/jazz drum solo is pretty much what Bonham did night in and night out.....early on the snare, into the toms, then a thunderous finish. Pretty much the same with most drum solos from the 50's/60's on in the Big Band genre.

See, I personally attribute Zep's ability to stand out far and beyond all the other rock acts was that they had a Soul crooner for a singer, a Big Band/Jazz drummer, and a Blues Guitarist....all held fast by a super versitile backbone on bass and keys. No other rock band before or since had all those flavors in their mix. And no kids trying to be a rock band today, thinking they can follow a stright path to Zep without exploring all the genres of Zep's influnce will ever come close.

Very well said but I wouldn't pigeonhole Page as a "blues guitarist", and even he wouldn't call himself that. His interests went far beyond blues, and that's what separated him from guys like Clapton. Credit to him for rounding out Zep with three guys who were able to compliment his multi-faceted style.

[Honeydripper]

Very well said but I wouldn't pigeonhole Page as a "blues guitarist", and even he wouldn't call himself that. His interests went far beyond blues, and that's what separated him from guys like Clapton. Credit to him for rounding out Zep with three guys who were able to compliment his multi-faceted style.

Oh I know...but that's what he mainly brought to the table at the beginnings of Zep. That's where his head was at the time.

[Honeydripper]

It is not even close to me. Bonham is the best by far and away. He was an absolute perfectionist on his studio drumming. The openening of Rock n Roll, the feeliing in Dyer Maker, the rolls in When the levee Breaks and the great tiiming on Graffiti songs like the Rover , In my timem of dying and th Wanton Song. To me Keith Moon was easily number two and the only one that is in Bonhams league so to speak. I would actually put Carl Palmer of ELP next. Ringo and Watts were good but not great drummers.

You've heard of marching to the beat of a different drum? Well drumming to the beat of a different march also applies.

You interchange any one of those drummers and their respective bands ger WORSE! Bonzo would not work well with the Stones, Ringo would not work well with Zep, Watts would not work well with the Who...and so on. They all played exactly what was called for for the music they played. Rarely does a drummer get to show their full potential in a creative band setting....and solos by many drummers are interpreted as actual songs, not showoff pieces. It's all apples and oranges. I would'nt want any other drummer than Ringo in the Beatles. Was he the best drummer? cetainly not. Did he leave a mark on popular music as we know it? By all means, yes!

[mstork]

Oh I know...but that's what he mainly brought to the table at the beginnings of Zep. That's where his head was at the time.

Love the videos by the way!

[Bonham]

I AGREE with you in part. But I do think Bonham would have had little trouble playing beatles songs. Just cant see him singing Octopus;s Garden. As for Ringo playing Zeppelin-forget it. I think Moony could have though.

No way could have Moony played Zeppelin that well - he honestly wasn't that spectacular a drummer, he just had overwhelming presence.

[solar]

No way could have Moony played Zeppelin that well - he honestly wasn't that spectacular a drummer, he just had overwhelming presence.

If you slow down his drumming, it's amazing how much Moon fit into a measure and just how many times his sticks made contact with the skins. As for style, as Townshend said in the Amazing Journey, he was a lyrical drummer. That's what made The Who what it was as a band -- it's much more an operatic style of drumming than most rock drummers.

That said, his style fits The Who and probably few other bands.

[Honeydripper]

If you slow down his drumming, it's amazing how much Moon fit into a measure and just how many times his sticks made contact with the skins. As for style, as Townshend said in the Amazing Journey, he was a lyrical drummer. That's what made The Who what it was as a band -- it's much more an operatic style of drumming than most rock drummers.

That said, his style fits The Who and probably few other bands.

You could swop him w/ Mitch Mitchell. They both have spastic styles IMO.

My only Moon hangup is he did'nt use a hi hat on stage!! There's just too much taste and flavor you can get with them that he's totally missing out on!! Moon could never do Zep w/o them!! Nor could he to start w/. He's great and all, but TOTALLY different styles. He and Bonzo were great friends though. He even joined Zep onstage once (there some great video footage of it!!)

[zepyep]

Hi all,

I AGREE with you in part. But I do think Bonham would have had little trouble playing beatles songs. Just cant see him singing Octopus;s Garden. As for Ringo playing Zeppelin-forget it. I think Moony could have though.

Well,when the played the Boston Tea Party: Jan. 26,1969,which was a 4 1/2 hour show(!),from what I remember,they played all their songs and since the crowd wouldn't let them leave,.....the band members started asking which songs they all knew. They did play 'I Saw Her Standing There', 'Please Please Me',some Stones songs,Chuck Berry: 'Roll Over Beethoven' , 'Johnnny B. Goode and a hell of alot more as their set was only 1 hour long!

Also remember Bonzo admired Moonie and they were close friends.

Try and contrast Moonie with another great drummer: Ginger Baker.,who never seems to use his cymbals at all,where Keith is all over them!

KB

[Honeydripper]

Hi all,

Well,when the played the Boston Tea Party: Jan. 26,1969,which was a 4 1/2 hour show(!),from what I remember,they played all their songs and since the crowd wouldn't let them leave,.....the band members started asking which songs they all knew. They did play 'I Saw Her Standing There', 'Please Please Me',some Stones songs,Chuck Berry: 'Roll Over Beethoven' , 'Johnnny B. Goode and a hell of alot more as their set was only 1 hour long!

Also remember Bonzo admired Moonie and they were close friends.

Try and contrast Moonie with another great drummer: Ginger Baker.,who never seems to use his cymbals at all,where Keith is all over them!

KB

I still don't buy the 4 1/2 hr long show. Maybe those in attendance stood there from doors opening till the place was closing for 4 1/2 hrs, but for a band to do their 1-1 and 1/2 hrs material...then several encores of stretched out versions of what are a slew of typically very short songs just does'nt jive w/ me. Even in their heyday....when they had outrageously extended live versions of their own catelog (D&C,NQ,MD...and a slew of 10 min plus songs, zep has only had one concert break the 4 hr mark.....and that was only if you count all the recorded preshow/post show crowd noise.

First hand accounts are more often than not exaggerated...I would bet the show was more like 2 1/2...maybe 3 hrs at the very most.

[zepyep]

Hi all,

So you saying that Dave Lewis and Simon Pallett are lying?

John Paul Jones:

'As far as I'm concerned,the key Led Zeppelin gig - the one that put everything into focus - was one we played on our first American tour at the Boston Tea Party.We'd played our usual one-hour set,using all out material from the first album and Page's 'Whit Summer' guitar piece and,by the end the audience just wouldn't let us off the stage.

It was in such a state that we had to start throwing things around - just thinking of songs that we might all know or some of us knew a part of,and it worked from there." [...]

[Honeydripper]

Hi all,

So you saying that Dave Lewis and Simon Pallett are lying?

John Paul Jones:

I know, I've got the Concert File too, but 4 1/2 hrs is stretching it IMO. They could have played the Beatles first 5 albums and still not reached 4 1/2 hrs! I'm sure it was a lot of.....walk off stage, crowd still cheering, band thinking of what else to play.....15 min onstage, 20 min off stage, 15 min onstge, 20 min offstage. Actual playing time was probably more like under 3 hrs is what I truly believe. Even if they stretched the hell out of those tunes with extended solos. That's just my belief. 4 1/2 hrs in 69?? Like I said....maybe that's what the clock read from when they started to when they started breaking down equiptment, but not actual playing time.

[Popeyedrums]

That said, his style fits The Who and probably few other bands.

[Mountain Hopper]

Believe it or not someone I know claims that Ringo Starr is the best drummer ever. I find it laughable but whose drumming do we really hear more in modern drumming. My inclination is to say Bonham without a doubt. Yet I do not know Ringo's nuances. What do more deeper Beatles fans think?

There is no comparison. Ginger Baker is probably the next best. Maybe Keith Moon.