Aquamarine Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 The article did just say "fairly joyless people at this point." I would take this to mean in the wake of the O2, and all the negotiations to get a band together. But if the book is supposed to be biography of the band, and a definitive one at that, then yes it makes a big difference to the quality of the book and merit of the work, because the biographer or historian if you like has to be able to construct and present the material in a balanced, un-opinionated way. Otherwise it's not a definitive biography, but yet another gossipy tell-all trash book. This is impossible. History is the historian's interpretation of history--there IS no solely objective view of any person or event. Even if history were written by computers, they would still have to decide what to leave in or out, how to present the events that took place, etc. History consists of the stories we tell about history, and stories are told by storytellers, who inevitably have built-in slants on the material, no matter how objective they think they're being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxie Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 After reading the original post on this thread, all I can say is I want nothing more than for Jimmy to come out with superior new music that exceeds everybody's expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDave Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 After reading the original post on this thread, all I can say is I want nothing more than for Jimmy to come out with superior new music that exceeds everybody's expectations. You said it! Then maybe, we can put a lot of this garbage and heresay to rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooma Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Well it all depends on what type of book it is. If it's a personal account, "My story of the nights and drugs I spent with Led Zeppelin" then no, it doesn't matter what spats he has with Page. But if the book is supposed to be biography of the band, and a definitive one at that, then yes it makes a big difference to the quality of the book and merit of the work, because the biographer or historian if you like has to be able to construct and present the material in a balanced, un-opinionated way. Otherwise it's not a definitive biography, but yet another gossipy tell-all trash book. You do have a good point. I have not read the book as of yet but from some of the opinions of others (Halfin) it sounds pretty on the mark. I'm hoping that Mr Wall for his own professional credibility did not look to make Jimmy come off in a bad light just because they had a personal falling out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhb Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 You miss the point. He wasn't the average lad. He needed protection. Not exploitation. He needed a rabbi, not a greedy manager. You can't be serious. Next you're going to say he needed an exorcisim? He was an adult. Peter Grant was hired BY Jimmy as an employee. An employee that managed the group to Jimmy's satisfaction. It's a known fact that whatever Jimmy said went. Grant carried out Jimmy's wishes. If he didn't Jimmy would have simply fired him and hired someone else. Besides those times were those times. Part of the Led Zeppelin legacy was their excess. Imagine if history were changed..we might not even be here having this conversation. As for Grant being greedy? I don't think so, he loved Jimmy like a son. He took his cut. He made sure the guys got their cut. HE made sure they were the richest rock band on earth. I don't think anyone else made the money that LZ did. I have been gone a while and havent' read the entire thread, perhaps this has already been hashed out, if so forgive me jumping in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 You can't be serious. Next you're going to say he needed an exorcisim? He was an adult. Peter Grant was hired BY Jimmy as an employee. An employee that managed the group to Jimmy's satisfaction. It's a known fact that whatever Jimmy said went. Grant carried out Jimmy's wishes. If he didn't Jimmy would have simply fired him and hired someone else. Besides those times were those times. Part of the Led Zeppelin legacy was their excess. Imagine if history were changed..we might not even be here having this conversation. As for Grant being greedy? I don't think so, he loved Jimmy like a son. He took his cut. He made sure the guys got their cut. HE made sure they were the richest rock band on earth. I don't think anyone else made the money that LZ did. I have been gone a while and havent' read the entire thread, perhaps this has already been hashed out, if so forgive me jumping in. The other guys didn't get a say in this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhb Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 The other guys didn't get a say in this? I'm sure that they were given their due...but really in the end...it was Jimmy's baby. In fact, I believe Bonzo and Robert were paid a wage in the beginning....they weren't full partners until later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 When they first joined the band, they were on salary, I know. Not saying you're wrong about this, Medhb, I don't know how the business end of things worked, but after a while I didn't think Jimmy got to make unilateral decisions like hiring and firing a manager. But I could be wrong (surprise!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I believe Bonzo and Robert were paid a wage in the beginning....they weren't full partners until later. Correct, they were paid a salary. Bonzo did receive a 3,000 pound advance from Led Zeppelin and bought a Jaguar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widget Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 At first it was both Dreja's and Jimmy's baby until Chris pulled the plug on his involvement. The influence of Grant should not be underestimated though. Without his presence Led Zeppelin would not have been as big as it was. Meg I'm sure that they were given their due...but really in the end...it was Jimmy's baby. In fact, I believe Bonzo and Robert were paid a wage in the beginning....they weren't full partners until later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 At first it was both Dreja's and Jimmy's baby until Chris pulled the plug on his involvement. Preposterously revisionist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 At first it was both Dreja's and Jimmy's baby until Chris pulled the plug on his involvement. The influence of Grant should not be underestimated though. Without his presence Led Zeppelin would have been as big as it was. Meg Would have, or wouldn't have been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrZoSo Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I am not sure why it would be questioned as to who had the power to hire Peter Grant. I would imagine that Jimmy and Peter were in many ways quasi partners at the inception of the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 What I was questioning was whether once the band was established, Jimmy had unilateral power of hiring/firing, especially in the case of a major figure like their manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPP65 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 For anyone who is questioning Mick Walls reasons for writing the book here is what he wrote at the beginning of the book under "author's notes" "While I have been fortunate over the years to have enjoyed the company of various ex-members and/or former employees of Led Zeppelin, it should be born in mind at all times that this is an unauthorized biography, written objectively and with no undue pressure from any outside influence to do anything other than tell the story as I honestly see it. It should also be clearly understood that the italicized "flashbacks" passages of the text are not the actual words of Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, John Bonham, John Paul Jones and Peter Grant, nor are they actual quotes. Whilst they are all based on thorough biographical research, the facts of which can be found in the notes & sources section at the end of the book, the words themselves are the product of my imagination. I bought the book today at Munro's books, so far it's a pretty good read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 He is not very kind in his descriptions of JP: “When I was 30, 35, even 40, it was very important for me to keep those doors open with Jimmy. “But now it’s far less important. “I’ve had 20 years of talking to him and I don’t really need to talk to him again. You may not need to talk to him again, but you obviously have the need to talk shit about him and attempt to make money for yourself by doing so. This guy is a real piece of shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widget Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I found his use of in-person flashbacks to be unnecessary. Wall is second guessing what those band members may have thought. It makes his book come across more as a fantasy novel than an actual biography. Meg For anyone who is questioning Mick Walls reasons for writing the book here is what he wrote at the beginning of the book under "author's notes" "While I have been fortunate over the years to have enjoyed the company of various ex-members and/or former employees of Led Zeppelin, it should be born in mind at all times that this is an unauthorized biography, written objectively and with no undue pressure from any outside influence to do anything other than tell the story as I honestly see it. It should also be clearly understood that the italicized "flashbacks" passages of the text are not the actual words of Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, John Bonham, John Paul Jones and Peter Grant, nor are they actual quotes. Whilst they are all based on thorough biographical research, the facts of which can be found in the notes & sources section at the end of the book, the words themselves are the product of my imagination. I bought the book today at Munro's books, so far it's a pretty good read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kentuckygirl Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 You may not need to talk to him again, but you obviously have the need to talk shit about him and attempt to make money for yourself by doing so. This guy is a real piece of shit. I agree, I have very little respect for Mr. Wall.I have no respect for anyone that abuses a personal friendship for financial gain. I realize that all the band members were aware that Mr. Wall was a journalist by profession. Yet somehow he became a part of Jimmy's inner circle, and maybe the inner circle for other members of the band, so at that point he should have left journalism behind and displayed the decorum and characteristics of a friend, not a journalist. I realize not everyone has the same value system that I do, but if I had chosen to write a book I would have tried to expound on the characteristics of the band that allowed them to produce music that defined a genre and a generation, and I would not have betrayed confidences by revealing anything that was not previously public domain. I actually find his opinion on the possibilities for Robert's future to be accurate, as it is his ongoing exploration of new ideas and genres that fuels his creativity. However, to give an interview that mirrors Robert to JP, and portrays JP in such a negative manner, is both irrelevant and exploitative. He fails to mention in the interview that Page has a young family (with children much younger than Robert's) that by all accounts, he is involved with, and if JP has developed an interest in football, bravo! I watch American football almost incessantly. I have made the decision not to spend my hard-earned, limited discretionary dollars to order this book from Amazon. For those that are reading it, I will be interested in reading the insight of the Zep fanbase on the accuracy of this book. I have a gut feeling that several members of this forum could produce equivalent, if not better, material on the history of the band, without the exploitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knebby Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Robert would (and does), but not Jimmy. True - but he might next season as Jimmy is a Chelsea fan and Wolves will probably be playing them next year. I'm not as offended by what Mick says as it seems most are. I find some truth in his words and will reserve judgement till I've finished the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reids Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 ... at the end of the day, Led Zeppelin's music still rocks and nobody can say anything differently (regardless of personality clashes, rumor, revisionist history, so-called friendships, etc...) Sounds like Mick is just trying to sell some papers... I'm not interesting in buying his book; only interested in the music here folks... If people don't buy Mick's book then he won't write further books on Page, etc... I like the title to the Aerosmith song, "Let the Music do the Talking"... R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazz Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Im just interested in what's in the book that Jimmy is so unhappy about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidLed Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 What a piece of garbage this guy is! He's making money off Zeppelin, and then trashes Jimmy! Typical media guy use and abuse and pocket the cash! I wont buy the book now. Robert is doing what he wants, but none of will ever compare to Zeppelin, period! I can't wait til Jimmy JPJ and Jason blow the doors off and Mick Wall can eat his ridiculous comments! why shouldnt Jimmy want to bring back Zeppelin,he put all his effort and time and writing into it and so did JPJ, not to say they couldnt do other things, but its not liked they stopped because they wanted to, they were cut short by John dying. this guy sucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nech Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 True - but he might next season as Jimmy is a Chelsea fan and Wolves will probably be playing them next year. Actually, Hull City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bong-Man Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 So Mick Wall, Richard Cole, and Stephen Davis, among others, all wrote books that were deemed innacurate and sleazy according to most Zeppelin fans. Are we sure that most fans would even recognize the truth about these gentlemen if it smacked them in the eyes with a two x four ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reids Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Quite honestly., I don't care about their personal lives. Society has become too voyeuristic about everything. Let them have their personal lives. Let the music do the talking... 5, 10, 20, 100 or 3000 years from now, the books won't even be a footnote in history. The music will be the only thing remembered... ... so why spend so much time focusing on anything else??? R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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