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AMA Awards 11/23/08

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Having rap and musician in the same sentence is an oxymoron...

Rap died about 1986 or 1987. It originally had something to say, but nothing new has been said since then, so that's why I say it's not music... it's reproducing sounds of the environment (other people's art) and brought value back then...

(Fat Boys (novelty), Beasties, Fresh Prince, Biz Markie and Run DMC were for fun... Public Enemy, Africa Bambatta, Boogie Down Productions, Ice T, NWA etc had social and political references/commentaries to share... LLCool J was even melodic and focused on the R&B side of things...

..., but since then, it's been the same gold chain wearing, baggy pants wearing, gold teeth, degradation of women, cursing, rehashing of the same beats, samples, noise and music industry's promotion to keep it in the mainstream to sell clothes, watches, fragrances, tv shows, cars, etc... (nothing else , but to keep it a cash cow)... Last week, Snoop Dog was on Martha Stewart cooking segment (really sad)....

That's not music.... that's a brand...

The record industry has pushed the rap brand into country and into rock (a la kid rock and the like)...

Let's face it, there's music (Bach, Beethoven, Dizzy Gillespie, Etta James, Sarah Vaughan, Ella Fitzgerald, Eric Clapton, Led Zeppelin, BB King, Santana, Beatles, Stones, Who, Tom Petty, Bob Dylan, U2, RUSH, The Police, Luther Vandross, James Brown, Prince, Michael Jackson (yes... even him , too), Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, John Mayer, Lenny Kravitz, etc...)

...and then there's rap...

R B)

Excellent points reids! I prefer the old school rap much better than alot of the rap today. I didn't even watch the AMA awards. I remember a long time ago, it was fun to watch but these days there are just too many awards shows, so not much to get excited about anymore. Kanye's attitude about not winning awards in the past is a real turn off!!

Edited by Melanie_72

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I still don't care for Kanye West. <_< I do listen to and enjoy some hip hop, but classic rock is "my" genre as the one I identify with the most; musically and culturally.

Maybe rap/hip hop is a bigger phenomenon than I realize? :unsure: I don't know. I agree there is definitely much more to the culture of rap/hip hop than just the music and that's part of what I do appreciate about it (not talking about the marketing stuff). I just prefer rock.

Actually, when I first heard Rihanna's "Shut Up and Drive" I immediately thought of "Trampled Underfoot" (car metaphors and a good beat). :)

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reids,your words have hit the nail squarely on the head.Standing ovation kudos to you.

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After hearing way too much about this guy, I finally saw him (on what else-an awards show. They LIVE for these stupid awards shows) and what did I see? Kanye hoarsely shouting "Let me see your hands in the air!" Sigh. Oh yeah, he's "groundbreaking". And I have a question. What is hip-hop? Seriously. What does that mean? A drum machine and a girl singer? I don't understand the term at all.

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I HAD to turn it off because of those stupid huge screens/lightshow..whateva...way toooo much light and flashing. It could bring on an epileptic fit.

If this is THE new concert lighting, forget it.

I prefer the old days, simple lights and friggen curtains to project wavy watery patterns.

Oh...and as soon as I saw that pipsqueak "designer" ..Chris (?) I had to vomit and turned it off until the ten o clock news was starting. Just in time to see Tyler and Perry present, at least they looked the usual cool cats. :)

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Would you agree that there's bad rock music too?

Because I think there is, just as there's bad and good rap.

I do think that most of the mainstream hip-hop is really shallow, but still, that's no reason to say that hip-hop isn't music or a music genre just because you don't like it...

B)

Sure. There's bad stuff out there posing as rock, too.

Rap died in 1986 or 1987. Haven't seen anything original in Rap since.

Anything that says it is ... is a rehash of or incorporates some other genre.

Yes, most of the mainstream hip-hop is really shallow.

Rap today "appears" to be music to most of the unknowing/unschooled public (being shoved down everyone's throats by ad agencies, VIACOM/MTV, Major Radio and other publications (because the BRAND is BIG BUSINESS (not music), but It's more like a parasitic relationship.

The host (real musicians whose real music (like R&B, Soul, Rock, Jazz, Blues, Country, Gospel, even Dance music, etc..) has been hijacked) doesn't know it's there until the rap parasites drain all that was redeeming from the host (real music) and the rap disease spreads....

Look at the trail of death it brought to the industry (illegal downloading/stealing of real music by the younger unschooled who accepted the Rap (something for nothing) mentality as mainstream. When the major labels rock sales tumbled, they pushed RAP Brand into the mainstream to boost (artificially inflate their numbers for profiteering). This is one way that the rap (parasitic) mentality has helped to destroy almost the entire Real Record Industry...

The only real thing left in Rock are the Indy Rock and the Classic Rock artists still around... Jazz, Blues, Gospel, Traditional Roots, real Country should always be around as long as they do not incorporate/allow rap to destroy it's purity...

Real artists/musicians should not accept/allow RAP into its circle of influence or it will dillute/pollute and actually bring it to its end...

oh, .... and Kayne's an idiot. There's only one Led Zeppelin... Only one Beatles...

Last year that idiot, Kanye, had some other smart remark he made towards all of the "real" musicians and artists in the audience. Vince Gill commented when he beat Kayne for an award that Ringo Starr presented him his award (and you wouldn't see that happen in RAP)... :lol:

R B)

Edited by reids

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Sure. There's bad stuff out there posing as rock, too.

Rap died in 1986 or 1987. Haven't seen anything original in Rap since.

Anything that says it is ... is a rehash of or incorporates some other genre.

Yes, most of the mainstream hip-hop is really shallow.

Rap today "appears" to be music to most of the unknowing/unschooled public (being shoved down everyone's throats by ad agencies, VIACOM/MTV, Major Radio and other publications (because the BRAND is BIG BUSINESS (not music), but It's more like a parasitic relationship.

The host (real musicians whose real music has been hijacked) doesn't know it's there until the rap parasite drains all that was redeeming from the host and the rap disease spreads.

R B)

I didn't pull the plug on hip hop until 1994. I was digging Tribe Called Quest, Black Sheep, P.E, Beasties, Eric B and Rakim, Digable Planets, even Cypress Hill, which was too violent for me but I liked the music... I had a soft spot for the BeeBop Jazz influenced rap. Cool bass lines.

Now I'm working on being out of touch. I've been practicing shaking my fist while yelling at teenagers.. "get out of my yard" and so on. My old man style is gonna be spot on.

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Well folks, maybe he's not too far off the mark. He may well have something in common with Lennon one day. I'm sure he'll be the next rap/hip hop star gettin' shot.

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Rap is not music.

It is noise, copying, borrowing, stealing real musicians work and a few other things I care to not print. Period.

R B)

I wonder who else borrowed and stole music from other musicians...

Oh wait, you're posting on their website.

Rap and hip-hop are genres of music. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not.

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Kanye West was also victorious, winning Favorite Male Rap/Hip-Hop Artist and Favorite Rap/Hip-Hop Album for Graduation. For someone who always complains when he doesn’t win an award, West is making it a tradition of giving away the awards he actually does win, with West telling the crowd, “And I want to give this award to [Lil] Wayne, for this year. If it was last year, this would have been my award.” West also ranted during another acceptance speech “We’re going to push this music to the point where it was like in the ’60s, in the ’70s, where you talk about Led Zeppelin and Hendrix and the Beatles. We will be the new Beatles, the new Hendrix,” and capped his big night with a performance of 808s & Heartbreak’s “Heartless.”

:lol:

RollingStone.

That's fine.... but NO ONE can be the new LED ZEPPELIN. :)

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I didn't pull the plug on hip hop until 1994. I was digging Tribe Called Quest, Black Sheep, P.E, Beasties, Eric B and Rakim, Digable Planets, even Cypress Hill, which was too violent for me but I liked the music... I had a soft spot for the BeeBop Jazz influenced rap. Cool bass lines.

Now I'm working on being out of touch. I've been practicing shaking my fist while yelling at teenagers.. "get out of my yard" and so on. My old man style is gonna be spot on.

Those are good examples of the 2nd generation of rap (mid to late 80s artists like Eric B & Rakim (Paid in Full, Digable Planets, Cypress Hill), who made a few more albums in the early 90s). I'll give you that. Tribe, Black Sheep were interesting ...PE and Beasties (I mentioned already earlier),..

I wonder who else borrowed and stole music from other musicians...

Oh wait, you're posting on their website.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

reids replied:

There's a difference between real musicians (who actually play instruments) creating versions of blues-based songs/ inspired traditional works by legends (like James Brown) and someone taking a creative work and throwing some beats (pressing buttons on a machine of pre-programmed sounds) and adding a few "take that.. take that.... yeah, uh, huhs" on it like Diddy did with The Police's "Every Breath You Take" (changing the name to "Every Cake You Bake" or something like that (and calling his original piece of work)... sad, indeed. And the kids growing up in the rap community would never know the Song was the Police's.

At least, Diddly did pay JP a handsome price ($1million +) to "re-do" "Kashmir" for the Godzilla ST.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rap and hip-hop are genres of music. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not.

Right..... :sos:

That's fine.... but NO ONE can be the new LED ZEPPELIN. :)

Amen!!! :D

R B)

Edited by reids

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Sure!!! No one can be Led Zeppelin.

May be he wants to be Elvis cause he's tired to be a black man!!

I think..........?

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Rap is not music.

It is noise, copying, borrowing, stealing real musicians work and a few other things I care to not print. Period.

R cool.gif

Dnt forget that not all of Zeppelin's songs were completely original, particularly the first album

Rap is not music, ill give you that, its the poem that is sung. The actual beat is there first, and thats all it is, a beat. Combine it, and u DO have music.

Yes, Kanye is very, very, very cocky. But a lot of musicians are.(PLANT LOL)

Im not usually a fan of rap and the generic beats but Kanye is different, better than most.

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Actually thought it was cool that he namechecked Led Zeppelin as an example of how huge music was back then. Nice also that Zep were the FIRST band he automatically namechecked.

Maybe he's a fan?

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Actually thought it was cool that he namechecked Led Zeppelin as an example of how huge music was back then. Nice also that Zep were the FIRST band he automatically namechecked.

Maybe he's a fan?

exactly - it's a compliment, nothing more

Edited by caroselambra~

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I thought it was a compliment also.

Rap is not music.

It is noise, copying, borrowing, stealing real musicians work and a few other things I care to not print. Period.

R cool.gif

Dnt forget that not all of Zeppelin's songs were completely original, particularly the first album

Rap is not music, ill give you that, its the poem that is sung. The actual beat is there first, and thats all it is, a beat. Combine it, and u DO have music.

Yes, Kanye is very, very, very cocky. But a lot of musicians are.(PLANT LOL)

Im not usually a fan of rap and the generic beats but Kanye is different, better than most.

True and his latest album. 808's and Heartbreak is not Rap or Hip Hop. Its R&B. He is off in another direction on this album. Its raw and emotional and the production is superb. :)

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Here is why Kayne West is wrong...and an idiot. 40 years from now, will we still be playing most of this music that has come out today?? I'm leaning towards "no". When was the last time you heard "Ain't Nothing But A G Thang", "Genie In A Bottle", "I Wanna Sex You Up", "Can I Get A..." or any of the other huge rap/R&B megahits of the 90's? Now let's flip that. When was the last time you heard "Smells Like Teen Spirit" on the radio? Or "Enter Sandman"? Or "Jeremy"? A lot more recent huh? Rock music has a much longer shelf life than "c"rap music because it's actually ART! It's not just putting words over a recycled beat. I mean, ANYONE can do that. It's just rhyming. Not everyone can write an entire song, meaning guitar, bass, rhythm, drums, keyboards, and lyrics and have it all mesh harmoniously. But look at rock in its current state. The Beatles still get massive airplay. Led Zeppelin still gets massive airplay. The Doors still get massive airplay. The Sugar Hill Gang? Not so much. MC Hammer? Not so much. "C"rap will NEVER reach the longevity of rock. Ever.

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Here is why Kayne West is wrong...and an idiot. 40 years from now, will we still be playing most of this music that has come out today?? I'm leaning towards "no". When was the last time you heard "Ain't Nothing But A G Thang", "Genie In A Bottle", "I Wanna Sex You Up", "Can I Get A..." or any of the other huge rap/R&B megahits of the 90's? Now let's flip that. When was the last time you heard "Smells Like Teen Spirit" on the radio? Or "Enter Sandman"? Or "Jeremy"? A lot more recent huh? Rock music has a much longer shelf life than "c"rap music because it's actually ART! It's not just putting words over a recycled beat. I mean, ANYONE can do that. It's just rhyming. Not everyone can write an entire song, meaning guitar, bass, rhythm, drums, keyboards, and lyrics and have it all mesh harmoniously. But look at rock in its current state. The Beatles still get massive airplay. Led Zeppelin still gets massive airplay. The Doors still get massive airplay. The Sugar Hill Gang? Not so much. MC Hammer? Not so much. "C"rap will NEVER reach the longevity of rock. Ever.

No one thought rap would last that long when it first started happening in the 70s and here we are today and it's one of the biggest selling genres out there. And it shows no signs of fading away.

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Here is why Kayne West is wrong...and an idiot. 40 years from now, will we still be playing most of this music that has come out today?? I'm leaning towards "no". When was the last time you heard "Ain't Nothing But A G Thang", "Genie In A Bottle", "I Wanna Sex You Up", "Can I Get A..." or any of the other huge rap/R&B megahits of the 90's? Now let's flip that. When was the last time you heard "Smells Like Teen Spirit" on the radio? Or "Enter Sandman"? Or "Jeremy"? A lot more recent huh? Rock music has a much longer shelf life than "c"rap music because it's actually ART! It's not just putting words over a recycled beat. I mean, ANYONE can do that. It's just rhyming. Not everyone can write an entire song, meaning guitar, bass, rhythm, drums, keyboards, and lyrics and have it all mesh harmoniously. But look at rock in its current state. The Beatles still get massive airplay. Led Zeppelin still gets massive airplay. The Doors still get massive airplay. The Sugar Hill Gang? Not so much. MC Hammer? Not so much. "C"rap will NEVER reach the longevity of rock. Ever.

:huh: Since when was "Genie in A Bottle" considered rap? BTW, I hear it on my radio station alot and think it is a great song and so is "Ain't Nothing But A G Thang". :) Also, I think some of the "old school rap" has longevity.

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Rock music has a much longer shelf life than "c"rap music because it's actually ART! It's not just putting words over a recycled beat.

That's what most rock music is, actually. And I love it!

Art, schmart. :D

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Lest we forget... I'm surprised no one's bringing this up!!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MvA26p6wMYc

Is this any better?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=95JLrrgQpjo

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MyAgPgZGDyg

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PIVVVL0Ger8

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EIikcGo_dgU&...feature=related

Keep in mind, this is the greatest songwriter of our time, the "voice of a generation".

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xfi7ME_Y5Vs

Rage Against the Machine were a great band that were able to mix the 2 styles, the Judgment Night soundtrack the first time rock and rap clashed.

Not often referenced as an early rap song, but it is inspired by...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ijiazWlawUY

Chris Rock on rap today...he's the closest thing we have to today's George Carlin. He's more along the lines as some of the posters.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=z9A2I-X7b-w

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