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ALilDetective

Stairway to Hell?

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Yea and Obama's "Yes we can" catch phrase that he used through out the campaign is "Thank You Satan". Seen it on Youtube so it must be true.

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Well, I don't know about anyone else but when I play Stairway To Heaven backwards, it sounds like Stairway To Heaven backwards.

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The question goes to intent. Even if Page "did it", why? Have we sheep found Satanism by listening to what's arguably the most played song on radio? What has been accomplished? Nothing.

His intent wasn't any different than when he scrawled "Do What thou Wilt" on the runoff of Zep III. His motivation for creating the backmasking was to do what Crowley instructed his followers to do...." Let him constantly watch, if convenient, films and listen to records reversed." ....So Jimmy made part of a record with a verse in reverse, just as his spiritual mentor asked him to do. The section chosen to reverse is a further evidence. "There are two paths".....one is forward, and one is reverse. You can still change paths, because after all, "Do what thou wilt" is the rule of the law. :)

I realize most people think I'm full of shit, but the above explanation seems much more plausible to me than the following....

It's all a coincidence. I say, "Nice Try" to that. :P

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^^It took him nearly two months to construct that response folks! Must be the kind indica! :lol:

J/K TC. That is a plausible and well researched response. I have to credit you that. :beer:

But it doesn't explain the supposed content of the verse about the little toolshed. ;)

Edited by Evster2012

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Or, you know, the lyrics are just drugged-out nonsense. Which is far more believable than Jimmy's elaborate Satanist plan to turn the world into a bunch of mouth-foaming devil-worshipers.

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The other thing is, regarding the content of the alleged verse. One must suspend the belief that this could reference the Devil, the Biblical Satan/Lucifer, the Beast of Revelation, etc. Crowleyites don't believe in the Biblical Revelation. That said, Crowley referred to himself as The Great Beast 666. Now, that in mind we could assume that Page would not have been referring to the Devil or Hell or Satanism, but rather to Crowley, The Great Beast 666. "His power will give you 666", meaning Thelema and Love Under Will would empower you. Which sends the whole Satanic Zeppelin notion down the tubes. Page may have been selling his Thelemic philosophy, but NOT Devil worship. In theory. :beer:

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Or, you know, the lyrics are just drugged-out nonsense. Which is far more believable than Jimmy's elaborate Satanist plan to turn the world into a bunch of mouth-foaming devil-worshipers.

How many Crowley books have you read? What is your understanding of Thelema? How aware are you of Page's association with the OTO and his being a member of the Order of Thelemic Knights? I've been studying Thelema since before you were born. It's easy enough to dispel it as drugged up nonsense when you're standing at a distance as a casual observer, but some of us know better. The fact that you call it "Jimmy's elaborate Satanist plan to turn the world into a bunch of mouth-foaming devil-worshipers" tells me you really don't know anything about the topic at all. But feel free to post your opinions. :beer:

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Erm, Ev? Wasn't he saying that the bit about Jimmy's Satanist plan was even less believable than the lyrics being drugged out nonsense . .? I could be wrong, just trying to get everybody's arguments straight! :D

And you are indeed the board's Thelema expert, my friend. :beer:

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Point taken Aqua! :beer:

Yes, I do believe the whole thing is bollocks. I'm just trying ever so valiantly to dispel the Zeppelin = The Devil nonsense, and sometimes I get a bit zealous! :lol:

You read that Thomas Friend book Fallen Angel a couple of times and you want to throttle someone! :slapface:

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Yes, I do believe the whole thing is bollocks. I'm just trying ever so valiantly to dispel the Zeppelin = The Devil nonsense, and sometimes I get a bit zealous! :lol:

I wish you had been in my high school music class- the teacher was a born again Christian who actually told the class that Jimmy Page drank blood & worshipped Satan. And many of the other kids (especially the ones who were into pop music- this is 1980 btw) who knew nothing about Page or Zeppelin, believed him! (I bet he had a field day when the "my sweet Satan" crap came out.) I knew that he was wrong about Jimmy, but didn't know enough about Crowley/OTO/Thelema to challenge the teacher & his statements.

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Erm, Ev? Wasn't he saying that the bit about Jimmy's Satanist plan was even less believable than the lyrics being drugged out nonsense . .? I could be wrong, just trying to get everybody's arguments straight! :D

And you are indeed the board's Thelema expert, my friend. :beer:

That's exactly what I meant. Way to be a argumentative asshole, ev. :) Of course all of that hogwash about Jimmy being a freaky Satanist recluse is nonsense created by the media to sell magazines back in the seventies, especially the fools who think Stairway is satanist propaganda (or any other rock record, besides black metal lol).

Edited by MisterMcLov1n

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666 :ph34r:

:lol:

666 was the catalog number to the Gloria lp by the Shadows Of knight. They also had a short, backwards, untitled song on their Back Door Men lp that turned out to be "Willie Jean", a song they released as a single later on.

If you speed up that eerie track at the end of side one of The Stones Satanic Majesties, it plays "We Wish You A Merry Christmas And A Happy New Year".

Edited by Gospel Zone

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That's exactly what I meant. Way to be a argumentative asshole, ev. :)

I already said I was being zealous, and admitted I'd misinterpreted your post. Can we stop with the name calling?

Or can you not differentiate discussion from argument?

Edited by Evster2012

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For me, the best way to separate the real Zeppelin fans from the ones who only know them from Hot Topic and "classic rock" radio is to ask them if they think Stairway To Heaven contains any Satanic/backwards messages.

If they say yes, I know they don't know shit about the band.

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For me, the best way to separate the real Zeppelin fans from the ones who only know them from Hot Topic and "classic rock" radio is to ask them if they think Stairway To Heaven contains any Satanic/backwards messages.

If they say yes, I know they don't know shit about the band.

What about if they hate the fucking song?

:D

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What about if they hate the fucking song?

:D

I can't imagine any of us hating any Zeppelin song!!

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What about if they hate the fucking song?

:D

LOL......no one is going to question your cred. That being said, there's nothing wrong with hating anything they did. No band does music that 100% of their fans love 100% of the time.

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Start imagining.....

For me, I can't imagine. Your entitled to your music preferences, but I absolutely love the MUSIC and ALL of it. There is a connection that I have not found with any other music as strong as I have with Zeppelins. - and again, your thoughts are noted, but nothing like the MIGHTY ZEP:-)

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Does that mean I'm a "made" man? B):P

I'll vouch for you. I'll say you're a friend of ours.

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For me, I can't imagine. Your entitled to your music preferences, but I absolutely love the MUSIC and ALL of it. There is a connection that I have not found with any other music as strong as I have with Zeppelins. - and again, your thoughts are noted, but nothing like the MIGHTY ZEP:-)

That's how I feel about The Rolling Stones.....thanks for articulating it. B)

I'll vouch for you. I'll say you're a friend of ours.

Just don't mention the Irish part. ;)B)

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Of course all of that hogwash about Jimmy being a freaky Satanist recluse is nonsense created by the media to sell magazines back in the seventies, especially the fools who think Stairway is satanist propaganda (or any other rock record, besides black metal lol).

"Created by the media"? So Jimmy Page was ordained a member of The Order of Thelemic Knights to sell magazines? That's ludicrous! They wouldn't let him in if he was a poser. It is a priestly class.

I'm no fool and I don't think Stairway is "Satanist propaganda". I also don't believe in the backmasking. I'm one of the naysayers! But anyone who would propose that Jimmy's interest in the occult and Thelema as a working methodology for his life was just doing it for publicity doesn't have their facts together. Certainly he capitalised on it. No question. But his interests were genuine, and extended far beyond his aspirations for Led Zeppelin.

And let's please stop associating Thelema with Satanism. It's like comparing communion to ritual cannibalism.

*edit* And I'm NOT being argumentative or an asshole. I'm just presenting a different view based on facts. So don't act like I'm attacking you directly. Pretty please.

Edited by Evster2012

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"Created by the media"? So Jimmy Page was ordained a member of The Order of Thelemic Knights to sell magazines? That's ludicrous! They wouldn't let him in if he was a poser. It is a priestly class.

I'm no fool and I don't think Stairway is "Satanist propaganda". I also don't believe in the backmasking. I'm one of the naysayers! But anyone who would propose that Jimmy's interest in the occult and Thelema as a working methodology for his life was just doing it for publicity doesn't have their facts together. Certainly he capitalised on it. No question. But his interests were genuine, and extended far beyond his aspirations for Led Zeppelin.

And let's please stop associating Thelema with Satanism. It's like comparing communion to ritual cannibalism.

*edit* And I'm NOT being argumentative or an asshole. I'm just presenting a different view based on facts. So don't act like I'm attacking you directly. Pretty please.

Even though we disagree on the back-masking matter, we actually have a lot of common ground concerning this issue. I also believe that Jimmy's fascination with Thelema and specifically Crowley, had a big influence on his life and the music. Your detailed explanation of "the Banning Ritual" during "Dazed and Confused" is a perfect example of that. I also find the whole issue of "Satanism" as a huge stumbling block that impedes folks from looking at the available circumstantial evidence in an objective way. That the whole issue of back masking was exploited by Christian fundamentalists at one point doesn't make that any easier. It also doesn't help the issue that Crowley himself used other's fear of Satanism as a tool to either get a rise out of them, or just to help draw attention to himself.

Even though I believe a message exists in one verse in "Stairway", I in no way believe Jimmy's motivation was to sell anyone's soul. In fact, I don't believe in the existence of Satan, God, Horus, ghosts, or the boogey man (or is that boogie man ? :D ), so let's forget that personal angle. My point is that if Jimmy was such a follower of Crowley that he was willing to put a message on the run-off of Zep III....if he was willing to buy a Crowley house....if he was motivated enough to be the second largest collector of his artifacts in the world....if he was motivated enough to play dress-up with Crowley outfits....if he was motivated enough to start the Equinox bookstore, then he was motivated enough to put a reverse message on "Stairway", just as Crowley specifically asked his followers to do in "Magick in Theory & Practice".

And then we come to Eddie Kramer. Eddie has recently claimed that no message exists on "Stairway" because back-masking is an impossibility. Yet in a live interview, Jimmy Page claims that he himself instructed Eddie Kramer how to accomplish that very thing. In fact, Jimmy explains in the interview exactly how reversing tape was accomplished at his direction !

Jimmy Page has claimed that "Stairway to Heaven" was the band's musical peak. Every artist wants to create a work of art that will span the test of time. The musical structure of "Stairway" was something he carried with him for quite some time.....he has said so in many interviews. Considering how his infatuation with Thelema and Crowley controlled other aspects of his life, I don't think it is that much of a stretch to think that part of the pre-conceived idea of "Stairway" was as a tribute to Crowley and Thelema. I believe the message is part of that tribute.

"Ours is the Sevenfold Path of Initiation: thou shalt transmute the base lead into the subtle Aurum Solis by rising on the Stairway of the Heavens in thy Secret Laboratorium on earth. Here is the Excellent Way! The steps of the Stairway are seven; the Laboratorium is Our Holy House of Song and Our Holy Rose Garden, which thou knowest so well. Yet to those who are vulgar, it is a secret even though they themselves possess it.")

Edited by Bong-Man

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