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Okay, i've gotten some real good input from many people. Very imformative in fact.

But, and there's always a but , :D i'm still resolute in my original statement. The song is, imo, not their best nor is it epic. If it's so much so, why do you never hear it played on the radio, or see it mentioned much in articles about the group? I live in the midwest US, pretty much the gut of LZ country and don't think i've heard ALS played on any station for as long as I can remember. And they play a big variety of songs from their catalog. To compare, I think Echoes by Pink Floyd is their finest work, but you rarely hear it played or mentioned. The people who program this stuff must know something about what they're doing, right? Maybe not and who cares anyway. Thanks for all the replies.

It's not my favorite song either, but it is epic & powerful. It is some of Page's & Bonhams best playing, but that does not make a great song alone. It's very good, but I'll take "Ten Years Gone" over it anyday. Its just a better crafted song as a whole.

As far as radio play, that doesnt even matter. Radio plays whats palatable. I really couldnt see "Achilles" played over "D'yer Mak'er" for example. There's plenty of great Beatles songs that dont get played like "It's All Too Much" but you will hear "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da" constantly. They're more accessible to the wider audience, it's just marketing. I love "Friends" & "Four Sticks" but Im sure theyre not played alot either.

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From what I remember, Frampton Comes Alive was hot..

From Wikipedia:

"The album reached number one on the Billboard 200 the week ending April 10, 1976 and was in the top spot for a total of 10 weeks. It was the best-selling album of 1976, selling over 6 million copies in the U.S. and became the best-selling live album of all time. Frampton Comes Alive! was voted "Album of the year" in the 1976 Rolling Stone readers poll."

Just the other day, for the first time in years, I heard "Do You Feel Like We Do" in the car. Got home and listened to it in the driveway to hear the whole thing. Certainly not Zeppelin, but what a fun song. :D

"Hot" does not necessarily equate to "mainstream," which Frampton Comes Alive was.c

And I thought after Rolling Stone's countless acts of jackassery, people would ignore their opinions. I was wrong.

Edited by MisterMcLov1n
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Okay, i've gotten some real good input from many people. Very imformative in fact.

But, and there's always a but , :D i'm still resolute in my original statement. The song is, imo, not their best nor is it epic. If it's so much so, why do you never hear it played on the radio, or see it mentioned much in articles about the group? I live in the midwest US, pretty much the gut of LZ country and don't think i've heard ALS played on any station for as long as I can remember. And they play a big variety of songs from their catalog. To compare, I think Echoes by Pink Floyd is their finest work, but you rarely hear it played or mentioned. The people who program this stuff must know something about what they're doing, right? Maybe not and who cares anyway. Thanks for all the replies.

Will agree with you on Echoes. Indeed an amazing song. As far as ALS - it's a bit subjective I suppose. In my opinion, it's an amazing song - but then again, Presence is my favorite album. I don't know why it isn't played on the radio. I suppose radio goes for the obvious with most artists sadly but that doesn't mean it's not one of their finest moments.

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Listen to the knebworth version from the dvd, IMO it's way better than the studio recording. Faster tempo and JB's drumming is just sick.

I know jimmy made some subtle tweaks from the original soundboard but once you get past that, it's an amazing performance.

Plus, and I may get bashed for saying this but jimmy was getting heavy into heroin during the presence sessions and you can almost feel the "presence" of the drug within that guitar solo. So warm and sexy sounding but at the same time the guitar crys out in almost a painful way.

I don't know, for some reason whenever I hear page during that solo thats what I think of.

Edited by Aleister
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Okay, i've gotten some real good input from many people. Very imformative in fact.

But, and there's always a but , :D i'm still resolute in my original statement. The song is, imo, not their best nor is it epic. If it's so much so, why do you never hear it played on the radio, or see it mentioned much in articles about the group? I live in the midwest US, pretty much the gut of LZ country and don't think i've heard ALS played on any station for as long as I can remember. And they play a big variety of songs from their catalog. To compare, I think Echoes by Pink Floyd is their finest work, but you rarely hear it played or mentioned. The people who program this stuff must know something about what they're doing, right? Maybe not and who cares anyway. Thanks for all the replies.

Well, it's not often played simply because it's 10 minutes and too "Rock" for most Rock stations.

And most radio programmation guy don't know what they're doing. If they did, they wouldn't play the same songs over and over...

Edited by Charles_Obscure
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Yay. :yesnod:

they are all great but i think als is their best epic song.. it truely is from the beginning arpeggio to the amazing 12 guitar army of riffs from pagey and that amazing solo and then plants great lyrics and him going oh oh oh oh oh makes the song even more epic.. truely gives me goosebumps but every song does that to me by zeppelin in some way

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  • 2 weeks later...
Because Presence (the album Achilles is on) is the most overshadowed album in the history of music. When Zeppelin released it, interest in older rock bands was at an all-time low. Punk was hot, Zeppelin were not. And Presence still doesn't get the praise it deserves. It is their most consistent and progressive album.

And, they only released one single from the album. Achilles wasn't on it, probably to preserve the awesome experience of listening to the whole album.

I agree. One of the radio stations here just did their Top 107 albums of all time countdown and all the Zeppelin albums were on it except for Presence.

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Because Presence (the album Achilles is on) is the most overshadowed album in the history of music. When Zeppelin released it, interest in older rock bands was at an all-time low. Punk was hot, Zeppelin were not. And Presence still doesn't get the praise it deserves. It is their most consistent and progressive album.

And, they only released one single from the album. Achilles wasn't on it, probably to preserve the awesome experience of listening to the whole album.

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Because Presence (the album Achilles is on) is the most overshadowed album in the history of music. When Zeppelin released it, interest in older rock bands was at an all-time low. Punk was hot, Zeppelin were not. And Presence still doesn't get the praise it deserves. It is their most consistent and progressive album.

And, they only released one single from the album. Achilles wasn't on it, probably to preserve the awesome experience of listening to the whole album.

Sorry for the DP

You are correct in the fact that the music scene had definately changed by 76 and FM radio was beginning to turn into what we had all considered to be AM at the time. Very little of Presence was being played in these parts and because of that, ALS was pretty much only being heard by ingrained Zeppelin fans who had bought the album. I must admit that ALS not my favorite upon first listen. I found it a little overdone but as time went on and having had a chance to see and hear it performed live, my opinion started to change. I totally agree about the albums status though. Outside of the first album, it's probably the one that I play the most these day's. For Your Life is a killer that has alway's been one of my favorites. I'm glad it was finally given some long overdue recognition at O2

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Sorry for the DP

You are correct in the fact that the music scene had definately changed by 76 and FM radio was beginning to turn into what we had all considered to be AM at the time. Very little of Presence was being played in these parts and because of that, ALS was pretty much only being heard by ingrained Zeppelin fans who had bought the album. I must admit that ALS not my favorite upon first listen. I found it a little overdone but as time went on and having had a chance to see and hear it performed live, my opinion started to change. I totally agree about the albums status though. Outside of the first album, it's probably the one that I play the most these day's. For Your Life is a killer that has alway's been one of my favorites. I'm glad it was finally given some long overdue recognition at O2

Presence is by far my favorite Zep album as well. Most definitely thought them doing For Your Life last year was a great choice and sounded amazing.

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Presence is by far my favorite Zep album as well. Most definitely thought them doing For Your Life last year was a great choice and sounded amazing.

And it's soooo Zeppelin . :D I mean, if ever there was song that should have been played live before O2, it's For Your Life. That riff has stuck with me since the first time I heard it and I never get tired of it. Wish I'd been there to see it B)

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And it's soooo Zeppelin . :D I mean, if ever there was song that should have been played live before O2, it's For Your Life. That riff has stuck with me since the first time I heard it and I never get tired of it. Wish I'd been there to see it B)

Wish I was there too!

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Well ALS was not a big one for me either. One evening I was driving my big stretch limo down Highway #1 towards Vancouver and on the radio it came...Well I dunno what was different this time but I really got into it I put the pedal to the metal and rocked that limo all the way home. I guess it was just the open highway and the beautiful evening..but wow I got it Hope you will to.

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Well ALS was not a big one for me either. One evening I was driving my big stretch limo down Highway #1 towards Vancouver and on the radio it came...Well I dunno what was different this time but I really got into it I put the pedal to the metal and rocked that limo all the way home. I guess it was just the open highway and the beautiful evening..but wow I got it Hope you will to.

Hey, where have you been hiding ? Nice to see another member from the lower mainland

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Well ALS was not a big one for me either. One evening I was driving my big stretch limo down Highway #1 towards Vancouver and on the radio it came...Well I dunno what was different this time but I really got into it I put the pedal to the metal and rocked that limo all the way home. I guess it was just the open highway and the beautiful evening..but wow I got it Hope you will to.

very well said. For me it was after polishing off a fifth of Hennessy, closing my eyes, cranking ALS to the max and listening to every note including the ones in between :lol:

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very well said. For me it was after polishing off a fifth of Hennessy, closing my eyes, cranking ALS to the max and listening to every note including the ones in between :lol:

The production and sound on "Presence" is phenomenal to this date

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Before I start, let me slip into my Nomex undies because i'm sure to get flamed.

Most of the polls i've seen around here about LZ's greatest songs usually include ALS and I have a tough time with it. I just don't think it's one of their better songs. Sorry, but to me it's gets boring and I wouldn't even list it in my Top 20 of their library. Even on Presence, which I think is one of their better albums, i would listen to Hots On, NFBM or Royal Orleans long before Achilles. In fact, i can remember skipping over the song to get to FYL and RO back when it was a new record.

Geez, I know i'm committing a felony here, but I got to get it out.

I agree, ALS is not considered by me to be one of Zeppelin's Greatest works......

A GOOD work by anyone's standards......

But.... up against the other great Zeppelin works, ALS is not top of the tops.

Seems like -many- younger fans really take a liking to ALS, as one of their very favorite Zeppelin tracks. But, even back in the day... ALS NEVER eclipsed the great Zeppelin tracks that had come before..

I can stand to listen to ALS about once a year....

NOw.... I'm going to go listen to live versions of other Zeppelin songs.... :D

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Folks, ALS is simply one of the most intense, elaboorate, intricate, complex rock songs EVER written by anyone - period.

Musicians, producers of music, studio techs, would all agree that the technical and mucisianship of that one song eclipses anything that Zep had done before or after.

This was Jimmy's epic masterpiece.

I've listened to ALS with studio reference equipment - both the analog and digital versions. I prefer the analog however. The guitar and bass work here are sublime, brilliant! Bonhams' drumming, pacing and breaks are transcendant - really. The over-dubs on Pages end are simply unequalled to this day.

Nobody layers guitar lines like that anymore, only because they can't!

Listen carefully, layer upon layer - tasteful and portant guitar runs that build the song to great heights.

John's drumming - roll upon roll moving in synch with JPJ bass lines - steady, forceful, pure power.

And Robert's lyrics sung with passion and spiritual loft...his best effort by far. Beats Kashmir in complexity and ferocity.

Simply put - Achilles Last Stand is a masterpiece for generations to come.

Edited by nirvana
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And Robert's lyrics sung with passion and spiritual loft...his best effort by far. Beats Kashmir in complexity and ferocity.

Simply put - Achilles Last Stand is a masterpiece for generations to come.

Complexity for the sake of complexity..... is much like speed for the sake of speed...

Or Loudness for the sake of Loudness....

It may have it's devoted followers..... but Louder is not always better... than softer, etc.

They use the same resoning for argueing that Neal Peart is a better drummer than John Henry Bonham, becuase Neal's drumming ... is more "complex"....

You want complexity ? ? Don't begin and end with ALS.... Seek out Jazz .... Now that's complex...

I think that ALS is for 12 year olds..... Or the mentality of a 12 year old....

And, those that are facinated with complexity...

Nothing wrong with that....

I was never in to Zeppelin when I was 12. Went straight from The Beatles ... to Led Zeppelin.

No KISS or Def Leppard to "bridge" the gap....

But complexity for the sake of complexity... doesn't get me.

Edited by The Rover
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Complexity for the sake of complexity..... is much like speed for the sake of speed...

Or Loudness for the sake of Loudness....

It may have it's devoted followers..... but Louder is not always better... than softer, etc.

They use the same resoning for argueing that Neal Peart is a better drummer than John Henry Bonham, becuase Neal's drumming ... is more "complex"....

You want complexity ? ? Don't begin and end with ALS.... Seek out Jazz .... Now that's complex...

I think that ALS is for 12 year olds..... Or the mentality of a 12 year old....

And, those that are facinated with complexity...

Nothing wrong with that....

I was never in to Zeppelin when I was 12. Went straight from The Beatles ... to Led Zeppelin.

No KISS or Def Leppard to "bridge" the gap....

But complexity for the sake of complexity... doesn't get me.

:( totally missed my point Rov. ....don't know 'bout you but i don't know many 12 yr olds that break any song down to being complex or genius - they just rock to it. Jazz - not so much.

Other than that - congrats to the Texas Longhorns for beating OSU last night....l-l 'horns!

Edited by nirvana
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