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danelectro59

Achilles Last Stand

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so did heart .. on barracuda total ripoff but they are known as the female zeppelin so it was a tribute.. they love zeppelin

Barracuda sounded much more like Keep Yourself Alive by Queen than Achilles Last Stand.

Complexity for the sake of complexity..... is much like speed for the sake of speed...

Or Loudness for the sake of Loudness....

It may have it's devoted followers..... but Louder is not always better... than softer, etc.

They use the same resoning for argueing that Neal Peart is a better drummer than John Henry Bonham, becuase Neal's drumming ... is more "complex"....

You want complexity ? ? Don't begin and end with ALS.... Seek out Jazz .... Now that's complex...

I think that ALS is for 12 year olds..... Or the mentality of a 12 year old....

And, those that are facinated with complexity...

Nothing wrong with that....

I was never in to Zeppelin when I was 12. Went straight from The Beatles ... to Led Zeppelin.

No KISS or Def Leppard to "bridge" the gap....

But complexity for the sake of complexity... doesn't get me.

Jazz? I don't have time for that elevator music. And Achilles is not complex for the sake of being so.

Edited by MisterMcLov1n

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Jazz? I don't have time for that elevator music. And Achilles is not complex for the sake of being so.

:o Listen to Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk, or Ornette Coleman, and tell me that's elevator music!!

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Jazz is not elevator music, and ALS is one of the greatest Zep songs ever recorded...nuff said!! LOL!! :)

Seriously tho, I think I like ALS even better as years go on---maybe I am more mature and able to appreciate it even more than I did when it first came out?? Liked it then, LOVE it now!!! The guitar work is phenomenal, and the symphonic arrangement of everything about the song is a masterpiece.

Sharon

Jazz head and Led Zep head.... :)

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:o Listen to Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk, or Ornette Coleman, and tell me that's elevator music!!

my god, woman, you've got excellent taste!

...elevator music, indeed.

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:o Listen to Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk, or Ornette Coleman, and tell me that's elevator music!!

I've listened to almost all of those and I just don't like it. Jazz might be complex, but it bores the hell out of me.

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I've listened to almost all of those and I just don't like it. Jazz might be complex, but it bores the hell out of me.

Ah, well, to each their own. :)

Sharon

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I've listened to almost all of those and I just don't like it. Jazz might be complex, but it bores the hell out of me.

you must think jeff beck sucks then....

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I'd say anything that's complex--like it or not--by definition can't be elevator music. B)

Depends on what it elevates.

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Barracuda sounded much more like Keep Yourself Alive by Queen than Achilles Last Stand.

Jazz? I don't have time for that elevator music. And Achilles is not complex for the sake of being so.

Er - hardly. Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker, Art Blakey, Monk, Miles Davis, Ornette Coleman, John Coltrane and a ton of others for starters.

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Okay, i've gotten some real good input from many people. Very imformative in fact.

But, and there's always a but , :D i'm still resolute in my original statement. The song is, imo, not their best nor is it epic. If it's so much so, why do you never hear it played on the radio, or see it mentioned much in articles about the group? I live in the midwest US, pretty much the gut of LZ country and don't think i've heard ALS played on any station for as long as I can remember. And they play a big variety of songs from their catalog. To compare, I think Echoes by Pink Floyd is their finest work, but you rarely hear it played or mentioned. The people who program this stuff must know something about what they're doing, right? Maybe not and who cares anyway. Thanks for all the replies.

The main reason you never here Achilles Last Stand on the radio (IMO) is because it is 10 minutes long! I remember hearing it a few times on the radio when it first came out, but that was it and I have not heard it there since! Anyway, I have a friend who is a big Zep fan, but is not that crazy about Achilles also. I have had this argument with him as well. Personally, I think that Achilles is the greatest song of all time and Presence the greatest album! But that's just me. Of course, that is the great thing about Zep, they have so many good songs, that there can be a wide range of opinions on which is the best. I would just say, next time you listen to Presence, really crank it up and take a close listen. Presence is best listened to loud!

Rock on,

phthah

Edited by phthah

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The main reason you never here Achilles Last Stand on the radio (IMO) is because it is 10 minutes long! I remember hearing it a few times on the radio when it first came out, but that was it and I have not heard it there since! Anyway, I have a friend who is a big Zep fan, but is not that crazy about Achilles also. I have had this argument with him as well. Personally, I think that Achilles is the greatest song of all time and Presence the greatest album! But that's just me. Of course, that is the great thing about Zep, they have so many good songs, that there can be a wide range of opinions on which is the best. I would just say, next time you listen to Presence, really crank it up and take a close listen. Presence is best listened to loud!

Rock on,

phthah

What? I can't hear you because i've been listening to LZ's Presence.

Are you joking? I crank it up until my ears bleed and my pant legs flutter.

Sorry, can't buy the "it's too long to play on the radio" reasoning. Hell I hear "Low Spark of High Heeled Boys" all the time and I think that lasts twice as long.

Edited by danelectro59

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Because it's Led Zeppelin at their best. Definitely the best track on this album.

It shows Bonzo's amazing speed and timing. Jimmy's blazing solo and robert's mythical lyrics and his superextended range. John Paul holds it all together.

Each of the greatest musicians all in the same band.

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What? I can't hear you because i've been listening to LZ's Presence.

Are you joking? I crank it up until my ears bleed and my pant legs flutter.

Sorry, can't buy the "it's too long to play on the radio" reasoning. Hell I hear "Low Spark of High Heeled Boys" all the time and I think that lasts twice as long.

Jim Ladd, used to be on KMET (Los Angeles), now on KLOS (also Los Angeles). Plays ALS often. Any other Jim Ladd fans out there?

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Sorry, can't buy the "it's too long to play on the radio" reasoning. Hell I hear "Low Spark of High Heeled Boys" all the time and I think that lasts twice as long.

"Low Spark of High Heeled Boys" is less than one and a half minutes longer than ALS.

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So.

What's your point?

He was correcting you because you over-exaggerated the length of the song.

Danalectro59, I used to feel the exact same way you do, and your first post on the thread reflected my exact thoughts.

I could find plenty of killer drum beats by Bonzo such as the intro on When The Levee Breaks, or NFBM, but after listening to ALS for a few consecutive times, I now realize how amazing that song is. See I used to hate the fast paced rhythm of the song...no mellow melody, no killer solo, and it sounded the same all throughout the song. However, i understand that every LZ song has its background, there's a mood in each song.

In other words, when I hear When The Levee Breaks, I think of a huge storm approaching, a hurricane preparing to blow an entire city away; only because the roots of the song come from a blues song about a great flood that happened long ago. Same thing for ALS; achilles as we know was one of the greatest warriors ever, thus thinking about war, battling, fighting, etc..makes the feel and rhythm of the song a lot fitting. You kinda have to put yourself in the moment, and you'll fell the epicness.

Kashmir, another song that puts my mind in the middle of a desert, or the middle east.

I now like a lot of song I didn't like when I was younger, and viceversa, but it's all because I didn't put my mind in it. The Rover can say that it's a song for 12 year olds, I however HATED that song when I was at that age. As you grow your taste changes obviously, and it's true that to each its own, but I never hurts to see or hear things from a different perspective once in a while ;)

Edited by Oswaldo

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He was correcting you because you over-exaggerated the length of the song.

Danalectro59, I used to feel the exact same way you do, and your first post on the thread reflected my exact thoughts.

I could find plenty of killer drum beats by Bonzo such as the intro on When The Levee Breaks, or NFBM, but after listening to ALS for a few consecutive times, I now realize how amazing that song is. See I used to hate the fast paced rhythm of the song...no mellow melody, no killer solo, and it sounded the same all throughout the song. However, i understand that every LZ song has its background, there's a mood in each song.

In other words, when I hear When The Levee Breaks, I think of a huge storm approaching, a hurricane preparing to blow an entire city away; only because the roots of the song come from a blues song about a great flood that happened long ago. Same thing for ALS; achilles as we know was one of the greatest warriors ever, thus thinking about war, battling, fighting, etc..makes the feel and rhythm of the song a lot fitting. You kinda have to put yourself in the moment, and you'll fell the epicness.

Kashmir, another song that puts my mind in the middle of a desert, or the middle east.

I now like a lot of song I didn't like when I was younger, and viceversa, but it's all because I didn't put my mind in it. The Rover can say that it's a song for 12 year olds, I however HATED that song when I was at that age. As you grow your taste changes obviously, and it's true that to each its own, but I never hurts to see or hear things from a different perspective once in a while ;)

First off, I respect what you say.

Now, to the response to LSOHHB song length, i did say i thought it was twice as long because it does seem like that. It drones on and on with the same piano riff. It wasn't something to take literally, which reminded me of a court room cross examination.

To what you say about ALS is partly true, but i've yet to read a quote from any music journalist or rock historian who has stated ALS as LZ's epic moment. None, nada, zilch. Kashmir or STH are the front runners, for sure, but Dazed and Confused is up there as well. Having said that, it may not be entirely ALS's fault. By the time they recorded and released it, the epicness of Zep had probably worn off a bit. I've stated that Presence is one of the best albums by the group, simply because it does sound more like them live than any other one they did. I just can't accept Achilles as the most powerful piece ever done by them. No use continuing on this for me, but I do enjoy the conversation.

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As with all my favourite artists, my favourite track by the changes all the time.

At the moment it's a toss up between Achilles Last Stand and The Rover for me.

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I think Van Halen based their 1984 song, "Girl Gone Bad" on it for sure...

R B)

Possibly. I always felt it was more like Song Remains The Same. 1984 was heavily influenced by Zep as admitted by Alex. You'll also notice the totally nicked Black Dog drum fill in the break of Drop Dead Legs.

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As with all my favourite artists, my favourite track by the changes all the time.

At the moment it's a toss up between Achilles Last Stand and The Rover for me.

You have good taste. :)

Sharon

PS--I know what you mean about "current faves" and how that changes!! :)

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so did heart .. on barracuda total ripoff but they are known as the female zeppelin so it was a tribute.. they love zeppelin

I would say Barracuda is closer to resembling The Journey To The Center Of The Mind(1968) by the Amboy Dukes,a band which,in another thread I facetiously suggested might reform.

The tempo of Barracuda runs a bit sluggish when compared to the tempo Ted Nugent is driving,but there is a distinct similarity present.

Back to topic.

Achilles Last Stand,is a universe unto itself.Other bands may have nicked a planet or a comet from this masterpiece,but they remain light years behind Led Zeppelin.

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