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Trinity

BEST live song and WORST live song

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I always liked Sick Again...great song...

Ever notice how in every 1975 concert from the US tour Robert introduces IMTOD as the first new song from PG even though it was played 2 songs AFTER Sick Again? Odd...and he does this numerous times!

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Another song I thought was good live was The Ocean. Kashmir was good in 1975. MSG 2/12/75 had the heaviest performance i.m.o.

Edited by JimmyPageZoSo56

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I believe the 1980 US Tour was to take in the East Coast and Midwest and the Spring 1981 Tour would have been the West Coast jaunt...

I always wonder "What if?" about those tours and the aborted summer/fall 1975 US tour, as well as the remainder of 1977...

The aborted '75 tour would have been good...I'm guessing they would have shook up the setlist more along the lines of the Earls Court gigs. My biggest complaint about the 1975 US Tour is that, the "Physical Graffiti" material aside, it was more or less a rehash of the '73 tour (some would disagree with this, I'm sure.) In spite of the shaky performances, I always liked the January '75 shows with "The Wanton Song" and "How Many More Times" in place of "Dazed"...and they should have kept "Levee" in there (I'm guessing the band's consensus was that it didn't really work on stage, though the fans seemed to eat it up in Chicago). I listen to the January shows more than any other '75 gigs. I think that setlist worked, and they should have stuck with it.

'77, by the time the third leg started in Seattle you could tell the energy and momentum was GONE. The remainder of the shows would have been as much of a disappointment, most likely. In 1977 Zeppelin's eyes were bigger than their stomachs, simple as that. For the first time in their illustrious career the band have overstepped themselves, and paid the price with numerous negative incidents and mediocre performances. If they'd've been smart, they should have played Seattle near the end of the second leg and ended the tour on 27 June in LA. As I recall, the majority of the remaining '77 shows were outdoor stadiums...they might have broken a few more attendance records and made a ton of money but given the performance level of the four 3rd leg gigs they did play, a lot of audiences would have gotten cheated.

If the Europe '80 shows are any indication, the 1980/81 US Tours would have been very hit and miss, probably. They really needed to alter the setlist IMO...that middle section of "Rain Song", "Hot Dog" and "All My Love" kills whatever strange energy the European gigs had. And "White Summer" really needed to go...like '77, Page was in no shape to play the damned thing. Having said that, to add a tune like "Carouselambra" to the setlist would have been excellent but I'm not sure if they would have been able to pull it off consistently night after night (in fact I shudder to think of the potential trainwrecks Page could have turned that song into). How many nights would have been aborted mid-show or outright cancelled due to Page or Bonham having "stomach problems"? Maybe the band would have risen to the occasion in their usual American haunts -LA, New York- but I bet a lot of American fans would have been shocked by the decline of the band's performances- it would have been impossible not to notice the decline in Page's playing and the fact that Plant wasn't really into it anymore. I know that, had I have attended a US '80 show as a rabid thirteen year old fan -which I was at the time- even with only "The Song Remains The Same" soundtrack as my only guideline to Live Zeppelin, I would have been like, "Whoa...what the hell happened to these guys?!"

Just sayin' B)

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I've already commented on what I've thought were the worst... but I must say, I'm shocked at this: Everyone seems to LOVE No Quarter and In My Time of Dying.

This is odd, because those two are some of my least favourites.

In My Time of Dying gets way too repetitive. I would have liked that song a lot more if it were shorter... preferably cut one of the verses in the beginning... the whole biblical thing doesn't really work too well with me either, though I can get over that.

No Quarter just got too long, and this song has never worked for me lyrically either. The only part I really like about it is when Page comes back in after Jonesy's solo.

It also appears people [in general] are huge fans of 1973-1975 era. I must admit this is almost 100% backwards from what I think. My breakdown: 80% of my favorites are from 1968-71, 15% are from 1972-73, and just 5% is 1975 and after.

I always feel totally alone in this... I just don't understand it.

I'll take the 1969-1970's 15 minute version of Dazed & Confused over the 1971+ 30 minute versions any day. I hate that they added medleys into it.

The only medley song I was ever a fan of was How Many More Times... and if you ask me, they took it off their set list way too early. I always liked the shorter medleys in Communication Breakdown too.

Sorry... just felt like ranting.

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I've already commented on what I've thought were the worst... but I must say, I'm shocked at this: Everyone seems to LOVE No Quarter and In My Time of Dying.

This is odd, because those two are some of my least favourites.

In My Time of Dying gets way too repetitive. I would have liked that song a lot more if it were shorter... preferably cut one of the verses in the beginning... the whole biblical thing doesn't really work too well with me either, though I can get over that.

No Quarter just got too long, and this song has never worked for me lyrically either. The only part I really like about it is when Page comes back in after Jonesy's solo.

It also appears people [in general] are huge fans of 1973-1975 era. I must admit this is almost 100% backwards from what I think. My breakdown: 80% of my favorites are from 1968-71, 15% are from 1972-73, and just 5% is 1975 and after.

I always feel totally alone in this... I just don't understand it.

I'll take the 1969-1970's 15 minute version of Dazed & Confused over the 1971+ 30 minute versions any day. I hate that they added medleys into it.

The only medley song I was ever a fan of was How Many More Times... and if you ask me, they took it off their set list way too early. I always liked the shorter medleys in Communication Breakdown too.

Sorry... just felt like ranting.

Thats the beauty of opinions isnt it?

I certainly dont think your alone in prefering the earlier stuff, many many do from what ive read.

Im in the 73-75 camp myself, although theres no doubt the earlier tours were MUCH more consistent in terms of performance. But give me the cream of 73-75 any day!

Going back to the medley thing....Doesnt the Whole lotta love 3.6.73 do anything for you??

Had it on in my works van yesterday and it BLEW me away!!

Anyways....dont feel alone! :D

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The aborted '75 tour would have been good...I'm guessing they would have shook up the setlist more along the lines of the Earls Court gigs. My biggest complaint about the 1975 US Tour is that, the "Physical Graffiti" material aside, it was more or less a rehash of the '73 tour (some would disagree with this, I'm sure.) In spite of the shaky performances, I always liked the January '75 shows with "The Wanton Song" and "How Many More Times" in place of "Dazed"...and they should have kept "Levee" in there (I'm guessing the band's consensus was that it didn't really work on stage, though the fans seemed to eat it up in Chicago). I listen to the January shows more than any other '75 gigs. I think that setlist worked, and they should have stuck with it.

'77, by the time the third leg started in Seattle you could tell the energy and momentum was GONE. The remainder of the shows would have been as much of a disappointment, most likely. In 1977 Zeppelin's eyes were bigger than their stomachs, simple as that. For the first time in their illustrious career the band have overstepped themselves, and paid the price with numerous negative incidents and mediocre performances. If they'd've been smart, they should have played Seattle near the end of the second leg and ended the tour on 27 June in LA. As I recall, the majority of the remaining '77 shows were outdoor stadiums...they might have broken a few more attendance records and made a ton of money but given the performance level of the four 3rd leg gigs they did play, a lot of audiences would have gotten cheated.

If the Europe '80 shows are any indication, the 1980/81 US Tours would have been very hit and miss, probably. They really needed to alter the setlist IMO...that middle section of "Rain Song", "Hot Dog" and "All My Love" kills whatever strange energy the European gigs had. And "White Summer" really needed to go...like '77, Page was in no shape to play the damned thing. Having said that, to add a tune like "Carouselambra" to the setlist would have been excellent but I'm not sure if they would have been able to pull it off consistently night after night (in fact I shudder to think of the potential trainwrecks Page could have turned that song into). How many nights would have been aborted mid-show or outright cancelled due to Page or Bonham having "stomach problems"? Maybe the band would have risen to the occasion in their usual American haunts -LA, New York- but I bet a lot of American fans would have been shocked by the decline of the band's performances- it would have been impossible not to notice the decline in Page's playing and the fact that Plant wasn't really into it anymore. I know that, had I have attended a US '80 show as a rabid thirteen year old fan -which I was at the time- even with only "The Song Remains The Same" soundtrack as my only guideline to Live Zeppelin, I would have been like, "Whoa...what the hell happened to these guys?!"

Just sayin' B)

Fantastic analysis and I have to say I agree with you. Plant couldn't have cared less about Zeppelin after 1977 and so in a way it's good the band ended when it did, although not HOW it did. Also given Page's sharp decline, this was a good thing...was he *really* in shape for another massive US Tour in 1980/81? I liken Page to a star athlete who was great as a rookie (1968-1971), hit his peak/prime (1972-1973), had an excellent plateau period (1975), and then hit a sharp decline/major injury where he could still have flashes of the old glory (1977) to the over-the-hill athlete with one or two really good performances mixed in with a whole slew of mediocrity/downright awfulness (1979-1980)...

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Fantastic analysis and I have to say I agree with you. Plant couldn't have cared less about Zeppelin after 1977 and so in a way it's good the band ended when it did, although not HOW it did. Also given Page's sharp decline, this was a good thing...was he *really* in shape for another massive US Tour in 1980/81? I liken Page to a star athlete who was great as a rookie (1968-1971), hit his peak/prime (1972-1973), had an excellent plateau period (1975), and then hit a sharp decline/major injury where he could still have flashes of the old glory (1977) to the over-the-hill athlete with one or two really good performances mixed in with a whole slew of mediocrity/downright awfulness (1979-1980)...

Good of an analogy as any. But I'll go you one better (sorry if we're kind of temporarily highjacking this thread, folks!) I'm convinced the '80 US tour would have been all she wrote for Jimmy Page; I've thought that for years. The drugs had already clearly taken their toll by that point, and I don't think Page going overboard one night in LA or something and fatally OD'ing is out of the realm of possibility. Let's face it: our boy came this fucking close (holding my fingers an inch or so apart) to becoming Rock's Next Victim, some time between 1975 and 1983. And that would have been a total fucking tragedy, loss and waste. Losing Bonham was bad enough.

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I've already commented on what I've thought were the worst... but I must say, I'm shocked at this: Everyone seems to LOVE No Quarter and In My Time of Dying.

This is odd, because those two are some of my least favourites.

In My Time of Dying gets way too repetitive. I would have liked that song a lot more if it were shorter... preferably cut one of the verses in the beginning... the whole biblical thing doesn't really work too well with me either, though I can get over that.

No Quarter just got too long, and this song has never worked for me lyrically either. The only part I really like about it is when Page comes back in after Jonesy's solo.

It also appears people [in general] are huge fans of 1973-1975 era. I must admit this is almost 100% backwards from what I think. My breakdown: 80% of my favorites are from 1968-71, 15% are from 1972-73, and just 5% is 1975 and after.

I always feel totally alone in this... I just don't understand it.

I'll take the 1969-1970's 15 minute version of Dazed & Confused over the 1971+ 30 minute versions any day. I hate that they added medleys into it.

The only medley song I was ever a fan of was How Many More Times... and if you ask me, they took it off their set list way too early. I always liked the shorter medleys in Communication Breakdown too.

Sorry... just felt like ranting.

I think when/where you start when it comes to listening to live zeppelin is a huge factor. I think to anyone that starts these days and does not listen in chronological order will connect most with the marathon songs/shows: 75, 77.

Ive only been at it one year now and the first bootleg I heard was 2-12-75 and what kick started it the most was hearing No Quarter from that show. Which has quickly become my favorite song and I definitely prefer the longer versions though I enjoy all.

It did not take long for me to realized how good they were early on, I almost consider 69-70 Zeppelin a completely different band, and 69-70 I like in different ways than I like 73+ shows. Ive had trouble really getting into 71 and 72 as it doesnt seem like there is as many quality bootlegs from these years, soon im going to listen to all in order so im sure my opinions will change.

As far as your comments about two of my favorite songs. What really surprises me is how much people like When the Levee Breaks, I dont dislike the song or anything but I consider IMTOD to be far superior as both songs have similar sound (slide guitar), a sound I welcome as a change from the rest of their songs. I dont really like the "Oh my jesus" part too much either.

And No Quarter, studio is completely different from live so definitely have to judge them separately. Studio is good but the part I like most is actually the mood/feeling I get from it because of the varied-speed affect, I really dont like the keyboard solo much. Live is just, wonderful, its not as repetitive (maybe select keyboard/guitar solo parts are repeated, but its almost intentional) as some of the other long songs and really showcases the bands parts individually very well. My favorite part is actually the end of JPJ's piano solo where it becomes jamming and bonzo kicks in, to me this is the most move-worthy (cant help but to move something to the music) Zeppelin music. Im sure you have heard them plenty of times but I just feel like not liking No Quarter means you are really missing out, same goes for not liking post 73 shows as much.

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Good of an analogy as any. But I'll go you one better (sorry if we're kind of temporarily highjacking this thread, folks!) I'm convinced the '80 US tour would have been all she wrote for Jimmy Page; I've thought that for years. The drugs had already clearly taken their toll by that point, and I don't think Page going overboard one night in LA or something and fatally OD'ing is out of the realm of possibility. Let's face it: our boy came this fucking close (holding my fingers an inch or so apart) to becoming Rock's Next Victim, some time between 1975 and 1983. And that would have been a total fucking tragedy, loss and waste. Losing Bonham was bad enough.

I can see this...even by 1980 Jimmy hadn't cleaned up his act...the tour happened to be short enough that there weren't as many low-points overall as there were in 1977 as far as his erratic performances. However I am always shocked when I've read more recent interviews where he states he's proud of his work from that period and thinks the drugs didn't affect him at all...I'm always like "really?"

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Oh, the worst moemts...The drugged incompetence moments are the worst times really. The guitar solo in All My Love e.g.Brussels 80 is beyond belief in terms of awfulness. Despite these moments I pretty much love everything Zeppelin did live. Though there were a few things I would prefer they had not done such as play a blues or Nutrocker or otherwise cheer up No Quarter and ruin the mood. SIBLY in Cologne 80, Kashmir 23 June 77, or in Zurich 80 the mistakes are not really excusable, not by these guys, they're not amateurs. The evident disinterest by Plant on Stairway in Copenhagen 79 is not a good listen. White Summer in Berlin 80 - oh dear... What is interesting is the fact we can isolate the appalling from everything else which is either fantastic or not quite to an individual's taste. Most rock bands are frankly not that interesting by comparison.

Of the c. 550 concerts played of which I think it's 298 that are referenced one way or another are those of pioneers. As musicians they did not have many examples of what not to do and the terms of reference and perception of time then (as opposed to now) is way different. Attention spans are quicker and shorter now. Imagine any rock band requiring a 14 year old fan to listen to variously tuned rock guitars, dissonance (OTHaFA at times), jazz and classical, acoustic music, drum solos for 3 plus hours. Imagine a ballad at an Iron Maiden concert...

For the most part there is great listening and a physical decline due to being trapped in a glare of expectation that put undue pressure on the Zeppelin members. I must say the Page Plant concerts in 1995 and 1996 are the most creative and interesting... probably by anyone really. The addition of other musicians helped best express their expanded horizons.

Oh yes, the Zeppelin concerts were not meant to be listened to over and over and deeply analysed unlike the albums. The fact is the concerts are repeated listening among Zep fans and the results are amazing. The lesser moments are few and the great are many. I've heard an awful lot of stunning music over the years in all forms and now Zeppelin are still, of all progressive music bands... the best.

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Best:

1. Whole Lotta Love (69-73)

2. Thank You (71')

3. SIBLY ('73,'80)

4. Trampled Underfoot ('71 '75)

5. No Quarter (All)

6. Dazed And Confused ('69)

7. Communication Breakdown ('69-'71 + earls court ones)

Worst:

The Battle Of Evermore, sorry jpj

Moby Dick, nothing against bonzo, i just dont like listening to straight drums

Trampled Under Foot wasn't even written until '74, and I'm not 100% positive, but I'm pretty sure the only time they played at Earls Court was in '75.

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I do wonder how that '80 US tour might've went. Perhaps they would've found the occasional groove, maybe end up doing another great LA Forum run, playing a GREAT version of Hot Dog,etc... who knows. Carouselambra might've rocked

I honestly do not know if Jimmy would have been able to handle this tour. If Bonham hadn't had died I don't know if Page would have got off the smack before it was too late... I mean just look at him in pictures from the '77 and '80 tours. He looks like he has just been freed from Auschwitz.

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Mention the year if you wish.

BEST: 1- Moby Dick , 1973 - 1975

2- TSRTS , 1973

3-For Your Life, 2007

4-Kashmir ,1975, 1979, 2007

5-No Quarter , 1973

NOT IN ORDER

WORST: I never really liked dazed and confused live. I only like the solo but I never liked the song as a whole. Don't ask why.

thats such a hard qeston but fore some reason i really like this Dazed and Confused that gose on fore 30 minets and it has bits and peaces of other songs in it

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I honestly do not know if Jimmy would have been able to handle this tour. If Bonham hadn't had died I don't know if Page would have got off the smack before it was too late... I mean just look at him in pictures from the '77 and '80 tours. He looks like he has just been freed from Auschwitz.

He did look horrid...also there seemed to be no *joy* onstage...contrast the Seattle '77 vid with one of the Earls Court vids or one from before...HUGE difference...

Also, Dazed live was good but by '75 it was not a "jam" anymore, but a tightly structured piece played note-for-note night in and night out...it was retired just in time...

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My favourite live songs are: (no specific date)

No Quarter

SIBLY

Thank You

Immigrant Song

That's The Way

Going to California

Dazed and confused

Killing Floor

As Long as I have you

Least Favourite:

Battle of Evermore, one of my favourite studio songs, but at least Jonseys singing cracks me up :P

Sick Again doesn't really have the same essence as studio

I agree about Train Kept A Rollin'..all the versions I have heard are basically "I met a dame, she was a dame, I likea dame, she was a real gone dame!", or soemthing.

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I like pretty much everthing they ever attempted to peform live except for Tangerine '72 and BOE '77.

Im not a big fan of the stripped-down Tangerine, I dont think it did the song justice and as for BOE, well many others have already covered that.

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He did look horrid...also there seemed to be no *joy* onstage...contrast the Seattle '77 vid with one of the Earls Court vids or one from before...HUGE difference...

Also, Dazed live was good but by '75 it was not a "jam" anymore, but a tightly structured piece played note-for-note night in and night out...it was retired just in time...

He looks alright sometimes in photos from '77, but yeah he is wafer thin. Funnily enough the '77 tour is actually my favourite tour, I'm just fascinated by the scale of it.

I agree with the Seattle video though, although this was now the third leg of the mammoth tour and Jimmy had 'sleeping sickness' *cough* cough*. There are still moments in that concert that are awesome, personally I love NQ from Seattle and the Stairway solo is one of the best Page ever played. The jazz improvisation when Jimmy breaks a string during Bron-Yr-Aur Stomp is awesome as well!

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Best:

Thank You

HMMT

SIBLY

Rain Song

Stairway To Heaven

Whole Lotta Love

Dazed And Confused

That's The Way

Worst:

OTHAFA

Hot Dog

Rock And Roll

Misty Mountain Hop

Which I like all the worst, just didn't think they came out as well live as studio.

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Best:

Achilles Last Stand

Kashmir

No Quarter

Over the Hills and Far Away

Rock and Roll

Whole Lotta Love

Sick Again

Heartbreaker

Tangerine

Gallows Pole

White Summer/Black Mountain Side

Nobody's Fault But Mine

In the Evening

In My Time of Dying

Black Dog

Trampled Under Foot

Thank You

WORST

Nothing comes to mind :P

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BEST:

As Long As I Have You

Killing Floor

Communication Breakdown

Dazed and Confused

White Summer/Black Mountain Side

Thank You

Whole Lotta Love

Immigrant Song

Celebration Day

Out on the Tiles

SIBLY

Bron-Y-Aur Stomp

That's the Way

Tangerine (1975)

Going to California

No Quarter

Over the Hills and Far Away

TSRTS

The Ocean

Dancing Days

Trampled Underfoot

Kashmir

Ten Years Gone

Achilles Last Stand

Nobody's Fault But Mine

WORST:

Train Kept a Rollin'

Tangerine (1972)

In the Evening

All My Love

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Did they ever mess up in In My Time Of Dying?

Not to my knowledge, they did a great live song of In My Time Of Dying at Earls Court.

Some were better than others, but I've never heard one that was a complete train-wreck. Maybe Jimmy had more margin for error playing with a slide? I'm a drummer so please correct me if I'm wrong there...

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Some were better than others, but I've never heard one that was a complete train-wreck. Maybe Jimmy had more margin for error playing with a slide? I'm a drummer so please correct me if I'm wrong there...

It's weird, you'd think that they would mess up the bigger numbers like Achilles and In My Time Of Diyng , but they didn't... Instead of messing those up they'd mess up songs like Nobody's Fault But Mine and Rock N Roll. I can think of only one occasion were they messed up completly on Kashmir live, in Zurich 1980. It's kinda funny to listen to, Jimmy just strums on the strings waiting fot the next queue.

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I love every song by the band minus maybe 3. Can't say that about any other band no matter how many albums they made! My point: i love every song of every album, live album, and boot? THAT IS why I'm here!

Dislike Train kept a Rollin. Just never liked it (except for maybe a half minute or so of one of the parts during a guitar solo).

In the Evening sucks... IMO

Carouselambra sucks... IMO it really sucks. glad it wasn't ever played live (on stage at gigs). My god, to think I listened to the whole thing more than once!!!

Boogie section of No Quarter is kinda weak, MOST of the time. Some good ones occasionally.

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The only "worst" I can think of would be "The Battle of Evermore." JPJ's vocals just...don't cut it.

"Best" would be "Ten Years Gone" or "In My Time of Dying," for me.

Train Kept a Rollin'
Tangerine (1972)
In the Evening
All My Love

Dislike Train kept a Rollin. Just never liked it (except for maybe a half minute or so of one of the parts during a guitar solo).

In the Evening sucks... IMO

Carouselambra sucks... IMO it really sucks. glad it wasn't ever played live (on stage at gigs). My god, to think I listened to the whole thing more than once!!!

Booooooooooooooooooooo. :P

Seriously, though: "Tangerine" from 1972 is...amazing...especially when Jimmy backed up the vocals. And "Carouselambra" is the best song from the latter days of Zeppelin, bar none.

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