Bands That Should/Shouldnt Be In The Rock And Roll...

[JethroTull]

As songwriters, I would not call them inovators, but definitely sound wise. All though their first single "The Witch", from 1964, does have a bit of an unusal chord structure for the time. They sound like a cross between Little Richard on acid and early Kinks playing punk. Their sound was extremely distorted. It's quite an irony they are touring all over the world today having huge crowds, while back in the sixties they reached success only within the Seattle area and the west coast.

Thanks for the link to The Witch. I enjoyed that song. It IS interesting what those guys where doing in 1964/65. They were such an anomaly at the time, but didn't get a bit of press outside the Northwest. I occassionally pick up an item (usually The Dictators) from Norton Records and recall seeing stuff from The Sonics.

Edited December 24, 2008 by JethroTull

[The Rover]

Well, considering who is in charge of the RRHOF and who votes on who's considered in the first place....

Then, all the bands that should be in the RRHOT are in there..... or will be.....

Considering who runs the RRHOF...

In other words..... the RRHOF is NOT a "fan's" choice, or a "porple's" choice Hall of Fame, and the entries would not reflect that. The entry into the RRHOF reflect the who runs the RRHOF.

It's that simple.

[ZeppFanForever]

Should: Deep Purple, Iron Maiden, any others?

Shouldnt: Well personally I dont like Pink Floyd or The Beatles but any others?

Oh come on "LedZep1969!" REALLY, THE BEATLES & PINK FLOYD? NO COMMENT! ROCK ON!

[jmorton]

It will always perplex why Deep Purple hasn't been inducted. If not only for "Smoke on the Water" but also for

In Rock

Fireball

Machine Head

Burn

Come Taste the Band

(Honorable mention for Who Do We think We Are and Stormbringer)

All those are classic albums.

It's almost as if they have something against the band or don't consider Purple to be that significant...weird

Jeff

[ally]

It will always perplex why Deep Purple hasn't been inducted. If not only for "Smoke on the Water" but also for

In Rock

Fireball

Machine Head

Burn

Come Taste the Band

(Honorable mention for Who Do We think We Are and Stormbringer)

All those are classic albums.

It's almost as if they have something against the band or don't consider Purple to be that significant...weird

Jeff

I'd have to agree with that.

[Deezer]

I really think that Stevie Ray Vaughan should be in the Hall. He brought the blues back to a more mainstream audience. If you look at the scene today and who he influenced. Of course, that's just my opinion.

I'd also like to see Johnny Winter get in, but I doubt he will.

[Jahfin]

Stevie wasn't eligible until this year (25 years after the release of Texas Flood) so I'm surprised he wasn't even nominated. That said, it would only be fair that Johnny Winter (obviously a prime influence) is inducted first but like you said, that isn't very likely. Same for another pioneer, Leon Russell. When I was growing up in the 70s folks like Johnny and Leon were all over the radio but have since been lost to time which is a cryin' fuckin' shame. They're barely even remembered by Classic Rock radio but if you tune into something like Deep Tracks on XM/Sirius you hear a wide variety of their cuts. Just a couple of days ago Deep Tracks was playing a shitload of Stones covers and threw in Leon's version of Jumpin' Jack Flash from his legendary live record Leon Live. That deviates too far from the norm so you'll never hear that kind of shit on Classic Rock radio.

[ninelives]

Stevie wasn't eligible until this year (25 years after the release of Texas Flood) so I'm surprised he wasn't even nominated. That said, it would only be fair that Johnny Winter (obviously a prime influence) is inducted first but like you said, that isn't very likely. Same for another pioneer, Leon Russell. When I was growing up in the 70s folks like Johnny and Leon were all over the radio but have since been lost to time which is a cryin' fuckin' shame. They're barely even remembered by Classic Rock radio but if you tune into something like Deep Tracks on XM/Sirius you hear a wide variety of their cuts. Just a couple of days ago Deep Tracks was playing a shitload of Stones covers and threw in Leon's version of Jumpin' Jack Flash from his legendary live record Leon Live. That deviates too far from the norm so you'll never hear that kind of shit on Classic Rock radio.

I would think Stevie would get a nom at some point. It seems that they don't always get one the year they're qualified.

[Deezer]

Stevie wasn't eligible until this year (25 years after the release of Texas Flood) so I'm surprised he wasn't even nominated. That said, it would only be fair that Johnny Winter (obviously a prime influence) is inducted first but like you said, that isn't very likely. Same for another pioneer, Leon Russell. When I was growing up in the 70s folks like Johnny and Leon were all over the radio but have since been lost to time which is a cryin' fuckin' shame. They're barely even remembered by Classic Rock radio but if you tune into something like Deep Tracks on XM/Sirius you hear a wide variety of their cuts. Just a couple of days ago Deep Tracks was playing a shitload of Stones covers and threw in Leon's version of Jumpin' Jack Flash from his legendary live record Leon Live. That deviates too far from the norm so you'll never hear that kind of shit on Classic Rock radio.

Yeah, apparently, Stevie was in the final group before they cut it down. Not bad for a first year. Hell, Bon Jovi didn't even make it this year, and I figured the Hall would be ape shit over that one. Who knows what they're thinking half the time.

[yahyoubetcha]

It will always perplex why Deep Purple hasn't been inducted. If not only for "Smoke on the Water" but also for

In Rock

Fireball

Machine Head

Burn

Come Taste the Band

(Honorable mention for Who Do We think We Are and Stormbringer)

All those are classic albums.

It's almost as if they have something against the band or don't consider Purple to be that significant...weird

Jeff

Completely agree. When my son started playing guitar just a few years ago, the first riff he learned was Smoke on the Water. That was the first riff I learned when I learned to play. (The second he learned was Iron Man.)

[Swede]

Thanks for the link to The Witch. I enjoyed that song. It IS interesting what those guys where doing in 1964/65. They were such an anomaly at the time, but didn't get a bit of press outside the Northwest. I occassionally pick up an item (usually The Dictators) from Norton Records and recall seeing stuff from The Sonics.

Norton Records is great. They re-releasing many interesting artists.

[Melanie_72]

Pat Benatar keeps getting overlooked and I don't understand why! She has one of the greatest female voices ever, she rocks!!

[ZeppFanForever]

Pat Benatar keeps getting overlooked and I don't understand why! She has one of the greatest female voices ever, she rocks!!

How's it going "Melanie_72?" I SHOULD REALLY BE ASHAMED OF MYSELF!! How could I forget Pat Benatar. She's another great legendary female icon that I overlooked on my part. She deserves to be on the elite list of female icon performers. ROCK ON!

[reids]

I imagine it'll be a cold day in hell before Journey are ever inducted into the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame and for good reason, just who did they influence?

I'm curious as to what bands you're referring to. Here is the complete list of inductees so far:

http://www.rockhall.com/inductees/inductee-list

That's a very strange way of wording that especially since it was a co-write by Springsteen and Patti Smith. As for the amount of records she's sold, that isn't even part of the criteria for induction, it's influence. If record sales mattered then you wouldn't even see bands like the Velvet Underground in there. And, just what does "international fame" have to do with anything? Not to even mention the fact that she is indeed internationally known. I guess you've never heard of the concerts she's performed in Paris and other locales around the world over the years. I'm not even going to touch "singing ability" as that also doesn't have anything to do with the criteria for induction. Hell, I'm not even a big Patti Smith fan myself but her influence on tons of artists is undeniable.

I was referring to Patti Smith mainly. For her to be called the Grandmother of Punk is a big stretch. I think of Debbie Harry as more of an innovator in the punk and NY scene than Patti Smith. Blondie were more innovators in music have done more for music (reflecting upon them being inducted a few years ago).

Patti Smith was a one-hit wonder (top 30 song for Because the Night) and if it weren't for Springsteen and the NY community/influence in the monopoloy for voting/politics, Mapplethorpe's name running in the NY scene/circles (as her album covers were featured) then she wouldn't be in there. For KISS, RUSH, Journey, The Cars, Boston, Deep Purple, and all of the others listed on link that you provided, etc... to not be in there and for her to be is absolutely ridiculous. I'm sure Natalie Merchant of 10,000 maniacs will be in there, too (because one of their biggest hits in the 80s was a cover of Springsteen's, "Because the Night" as well. Maybe, KISS, RUSH, Journey, Cheap Trick, The Cars (well, New Cars), etc.. should cover it, too. Then, maybe they'll be recognized.

Number of albums sold should play a factor in it, along with actual talent, vocal ability, writing ability, performance, what the band/artist did/continue to do for Rock N Roll/history, etc... In the big picture of Music History, Patti Smith will be only remembered as a footnote (due to her collab with Springsteen) compared to innovators/artists/writers like The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Queen, Marvin Gaye, Carole King, Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, Beach Boys, etc... (who actually changed the way people thought, dressed, spoke and lived)...

R

Edited January 6, 2009 by reids

[Jahfin]

I was referring to Patti Smith mainly. For her to be called the Grandmother of Punk is a big stretch. I think of Debbie Harry as more of an innovator in the punk and NY scene than Patti Smith. Blondie were more innovators in music have done more for music (reflecting upon them being inducted a few years ago).

Patti Smith was a one-hit wonder (top 30 song for Because the Night) and if it weren't for Springsteen and the NY community/influence in the monopoloy for voting/politics, Mapplethorpe's name running in the NY scene/circles (as her album covers were featured) then she wouldn't be in there. For KISS, RUSH, Journey, The Cars, Boston, Deep Purple, and all of the others listed on link that you provided, etc... to not be in there and for her to be is absolutely ridiculous. I'm sure Natalie Merchant of 10,000 maniacs will be in there, too (because one of their biggest hits in the 80s was a cover of Springsteen's, "Because the Night" as well. Maybe, KISS, RUSH, Journey, Cheap Trick, The Cars (well, New Cars), etc.. should cover it, too. Then, maybe they'll be recognized.

Number of albums sold should play a factor in it, along with actual talent, vocal ability, writing ability, performance, what the band/artist did/continue to do for Rock N Roll/history, etc... In the big picture of Music History, Patti Smith will be only remembered as a footnote (due to her collab with Springsteen) compared to innovators/artists/writers like The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Queen, Marvin Gaye, Carole King, Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, Beach Boys, etc... (who actually changed the way people thought, dressed, spoke and lived)...

R

I don't think sales should figure into an artists' induction at all, I think they have it exactly right by basing part of the criteria for induction on the influence they had on other artists. As for "actual talent, vocal ability, writing ability, performance, what the band/artist did/continue to do for Rock N Roll/history, etc..." being part of the criteria, the latter part of what you listed is part of the criteria. As for the rest of what you listed, who exactly is going to judge that? Some people think Dylan's singing voice is shit so they don't think he's worthy of all the praise he's received over the years while others believe he's one of the best (if not the best) songwriters ever. In regards to Patti Smith you seem to have a very limited and narrow minded (not to even mention totally misinformed) view of her and how and why she was inducted. I'm not even a big fan of her myself but her influence is undeniable. Deborah Harry was no doubt influential but more from a New Wave perspective than a Punk one even though Blondie did play more than their fair share of nights at CBGB's. Just because you may find her more palatable to your ears and eyes doesn't mean she's even more deserving of the mantle than Patti Smith. I believe they both belong in there.

As for Journey getting in, exactly who did they influence aside from a million other soundalike bands to record more pussy ass power ballads that would clog the airwaves for generations to come?

[reids]

You comments are subjective. Sales should be an indicator (as a by product of how many people actually bought the artist's/bands records. If Patti Smith is such a world renowned artist, then why has she not sold many records (she's been around for 40+ years and still makes albums)??? Sales aren't my priority as far as criteria at all. It should reflect (like I said as a byproduct/fruit of the artist's work/contribution)...

I've never bought any of Blondie's records, but I've seen them on tv more, heard them more on the radio, driven by concert halls all across the US and seen listings of them as a huge band. They were innovators by having a rap element to the song, "Rapture".

We could go on and on, but some people just want to argue... It takes two to tango.

Later.

R

[ninelives]

You comments are subjective. Sales should be an indicator (as a by product of how many people actually bought the artist's/bands records. If Patti Smith is such a world renowned artist, then why has she not sold many records (she's been around for 40+ years and still makes albums)??? Sales aren't my priority as far as criteria at all. It should reflect (like I said as a byproduct/fruit of the artist's work/contribution)...

I've never bought any of Blondie's records, but I've seen them on tv more, heard them more on the radio, driven by concert halls all across the US and seen listings of them as a huge band. They were innovators by having a rap element to the song, "Rapture".

We could go on and on, but some people just want to argue... It takes two to tango.

Later.

R

The Velvet Underground never sold much but there is no denying how influential they were and continue to be. I can't say I support sales as a criteria either for being inducted.

[Jahfin]

You comments are subjective. Sales should be an indicator (as a by product of how many people actually bought the artist's/bands records. If Patti Smith is such a world renowned artist, then why has she not sold many records (she's been around for 40+ years and still makes albums)??? Sales aren't my priority as far as criteria at all. It should reflect (like I said as a byproduct/fruit of the artist's work/contribution)...

I've never bought any of Blondie's records, but I've seen them on tv more, heard them more on the radio, driven by concert halls all across the US and seen listings of them as a huge band. They were innovators by having a rap element to the song, "Rapture".

We could go on and on, but some people just want to argue... It takes two to tango.

Later.

R

I don't want to just argue, I'm basing my comments on the criteria actually used by the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame to induct artists. Sales are only an indicator of popularity, not influence.

[reids]

I don't want to just argue, I'm basing my comments on the criteria actually used by the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame to induct artists. Sales are only an indicator of popularity, not influence.

Understood. I'm just stating that I don't agree with every aspect of their criteria of how someone gets nominated before others. I'm not against Patti Smith as a person, artist, etc... Just very disappointed how she can get in there before RUSH, Deep Purple, KISS, Kansas, Journey, etc...

Journey started out as Neil Schon and Greg Rollie's band as they played with Santana on his first two albums (and he (Schon) was asked at age 17 to play for both Clapton and for Santana in the same week). He played Woodstock with Santana's band and Journey (if you will check out their first three albums --- you can find samples of their earlier tracks online) were a classic rock/ progressive rock band well before Steve Perry (who was only introduced as the last resort, since they were about to be dropped by Columbia/CBS if they didn't sell any records). Perry joined and they went on to make Infinity, Departure, Evolution (which, IMHO, are their best records to date). Then, they made more mainstream pop/rock albums like Escape, Captured (a great live album), Frontiers, Raised on Radio and to become a Supergroup/ one of the biggest bands of the 80s. Perry left (due to illness) and they almost faded away until last year, when Schon found Arnel Pinella (from the Phillipines) on YouTube and brought him in to audition (later getting the job as their new frontman). Wal-Mart released Journey's newest CD/DVD, Revelations, exclusively and they toured in 2008 with Heart and Cheap Trick all around the world to mostly packed arenas. Journey is a band, whether one likes a certain period of their music or not, deserves to be inducted into the RNRHOF.

Many more recent artists/bands have listed Journey as one of their early influences.

http://www.journeymusic.com/home.html

R

Edited January 7, 2009 by reids

[slagfarmer]

If you have ever been to the HOF it becomes evident that this whole thing is just a business...From the high fees that they charge to enter to some of the bands that are in the HOF. Just a money making joke. No Kiss, No Rush, AC/DC got overlooked for years. Madonna??? Give me a fucking break!!!

Edited January 7, 2009 by slagfarmer

[Jahfin]

Understood. I'm just stating that I don't agree with every aspect of their criteria of how someone gets nominated before others. I'm not against Patti Smith as a person, artist, etc... Just very disappointed how she can get in there before RUSH, Deep Purple, KISS, Kansas, Journey, etc...

While you say you may not be "against" Patti Smith as a person or artist one would certainly get that impression from reading your severely misinformed posts about her. If you wanted to base inductions on sales alone then no telling who would be be eligible for induction. That's why I feel influence on other artists is a much more important criteria. Sales don't mean shit. As for who gets in first, it's not some sort of competition and in the grand scheme of things it's really not all that important though I'm sure those that have been inducted appreciate the honor. I know the inductions of Lynyrd Skynyrd, Black Sabbath and Gene Pitney (who was nominated a total of 9 times before being inducted) were particularly hard won.

Journey started out as Neil Schon and Greg Rollie's band as they played with Santana on his first two albums (and he (Schon) was asked at age 17 to play for both Clapton and for Santana in the same week). He played Woodstock with Santana's band and Journey (if you will check out their first three albums --- you can find samples of their earlier tracks online) were a classic rock/ progressive rock band well before Steve Perry (who was only introduced as the last resort, since they were about to be dropped by Columbia/CBS if they didn't sell any records). Perry joined and they went on to make Infinity, Departure, Evolution (which, IMHO, are their best records to date). Then, they made more mainstream pop/rock albums like Escape, Captured (a great live album), Frontiers, Raised on Radio and to become a Supergroup/ one of the biggest bands of the 80s. Perry left (due to illness) and they almost faded away until last year, when Schon found Arnel Pinella (from the Phillipines) on YouTube and brought him in to audition (later getting the job as their new frontman). Wal-Mart released Journey's newest CD/DVD, Revelations, exclusively and they toured in 2008 with Heart and Cheap Trick all around the world to mostly packed arenas. Journey is a band, whether one likes a certain period of their music or not, deserves to be inducted into the RNRHOF.

Many more recent artists/bands have listed Journey as one of their early influences.

http://www.journeymusic.com/home.html

R

I appreciate the history lesson on Journey but I'm well aware of their place in rock n' roll, having grown up hearing their music back in the 70s and 80s. I agree the early years are their best but unfortunately most folks identify them with the Steve Perry era. They are a fucking joke these days, out there touring with soundalike singers. The latest of which Schon found on YouTube and who apparently doesn't even enjoy touring. I don't think they qualify for induction unless you think they should be in for spawning a thousand bands that sound just like them and made "power ballads" popular. Thanks, but no thanks.

[reids]

If you have ever been to the HOF it becomes evident that this whole thing is just a business...From the high fees that they charge to enter to some of the bands that are in the HOF. Just a money making joke. No Kiss, No Rush, AC/DC got overlooked for years. Madonna??? Give me a fucking break!!!

I haven't been there and probably won't (unless only to see Led Zeppelin stuff there and maybe a few others stuff).

I think that the Hard Rock Cafe ought to just create a Hall of Fame (and have ceremonies) if they haven't already. I'm not too familiar with their business (only went to a few restaurants in Toronto and Myrtle Beach as well as Atlanta's locations to eat and check out the band's merchandise).

Maybe they could do a better job of representing rock artists/bands that deserve it.

R

[Jahfin]

Yeah, I'm sure a chain restaurant is going to do a much better job than the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame. No matter who's in charge of recognizing some of the most influential artists of all time no one is ever going to please every fan out there. I'm a huge Replacements fan and their influence is undeniable but do you think they will ever be inducted into the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame? It's not bloody likely. Same for Leon Russell. He was huge during the 70s and was definitely influential on nearly every keyboard/piano player that followed but the likelihood of him ever being inducted is next to none. The same for Johnny Winter and the list goes on...

In regards to the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame and Museum itself, I visited there a few years ago and enjoyed it. I wasn't sure what to expect but considering what they're up against, I thought they did a very good job. While I was there The Experience Music Project out of Seattle was presenting a Bob Dylan exhibit that I thought was very well done. There was also a record convention going on as well as a Roy Orbison exhibit but I didn't have a chance to see it all. Yes, it was pricey but if you're able to spend a good 6 or more hours there it's well worth it. I do recommend eating elsewhere if you can though as the food was absolutely atrocious and severely overpriced. As for the Hall itself, I enjoyed my experience there. Lots of Beatles, Grateful Dead and many other artifacts to ponder that I would have never had a chance to see anywhere else.

[reids]

Yeah, I'm sure a chain restaurant is going to do a much better job than the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame. No matter who's in charge of recognizing some of the most influential artists of all time no one is ever going to please every fan out there. I'm a huge Replacements fan and their influence is undeniable but do you think they will ever be inducted into the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame? It's not bloody likely. Same for Leon Russell. He was huge during the 70s and was definitely influential on nearly every keyboard/piano player that followed but the likelihood of him ever being inducted is next to none. The same for Johnny Winter and the list goes on...

In regards to the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame and Museum itself, I visited there a few years ago and enjoyed it. I wasn't sure what to expect but considering what they're up against, I thought they did a very good job. While I was there The Experience Music Project out of Seattle was presenting a Bob Dylan exhibit that I thought was very well done. There was also a record convention going on as well as a Roy Orbison exhibit but I didn't have a chance to see it all. Yes, it was pricey but if you're able to spend a good 6 or more hours there it's well worth it. I do recommend eating elsewhere if you can though as the food was absolutely atrocious and severely overpriced. As for the Hall itself, I enjoyed my experience there. Lots of Beatles, Grateful Dead and many other artifacts to ponder that I would have never had a chance to see anywhere else.

A restaurant could if it's better managed and organized than the RNRHOF...

Let the fans choose who gets in (not some panel of "elite")... It should always be by the fans and for the fans of Rock...

R

[reids]

I appreciate the history lesson on Journey but I'm well aware of their place in rock n' roll, having grown up hearing their music back in the 70s and 80s. I agree the early years are their best but unfortunately most folks identify them with the Steve Perry era. They are a fucking joke these days, out there touring with soundalike singers. The latest of which Schon found on YouTube and who apparently doesn't even enjoy touring. I don't think they qualify for induction unless you think they should be in for spawning a thousand bands that sound just like them and made "power ballads" popular. Thanks, but no thanks.

You're welcome.

I just wanted to make sure that you really knew they were a band at the beginning and become more of a business with Perry.

Just your opinion of course (not that that matters or anything). I'm sure there's millions who disagree with you...

R