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Hello Ms. Pagette. Im glad that you are a grown woman. The way that you talk around here. I was beginning to think that you were a fifth grader. Maybe now you can act your real age. Plant may be one of the kindest most charitable persons out there on non LZ issues. I have only said that when it comes to "sharing LZ" with his fans he is selfish. I realize that the truth hurts sometimes and that is why you are all attacking me. And if you must "Curse" like fifth graders to make yourself feel better, then by all means have at it. I wont stoop that low. Im sure that more rank personal messages are soon to follow. No big deal, they are amusing. You all need to get a life outside of being Plant apologists. Back to my favorite Plant solo song now, Ya La.

Edited by steve51
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You are the one whining because someone has a different point of view then yours. Playing with his old band mates only three times in 27 years. Would you stop whining about my opinion and answer my question.......what do you call it if this is not selfish?? And, must you curse??

considering he made a promise never to play as Led Zeppelin again after Bonzo died, I'd say he's being pretty goddamn generous...

Led Zep has to die someday, you can't just go on and on replacing members forever, just so some whiny kid can say he saw "Led Zeppelin." did you ever think of it as perhaps Robert would like to have a measure of control over how LZ ends? the O2 could have very easily sucked. the way I see it, Plant was reluctant to try it again and sound worse than the '95 concert, the '88 concert and the '85 concert. up until the O2, LZ reunions weren't doing so hot, 3 out of 3 sucked ass, that's 100%. Plant is probably pretty relieved they pulled it off and doesn't want to fuck it up again. how do you think he felt the last 3 times when he relented and agreed to do something he promised never to do and all 3 times they blew it? the poor guy has a chance to help steer his life's work around the monotonous trend of playing yourselves into the dirt and replacing those who fall until even your own fans lose respect for you. you bought his music because Plant gave something to you. if it sucked, you wouldn't be whining about this right now.

now, if you'll excuse me, I bought a Beatles album the other day, and I think it's pretty selfish of them not to tour for me, so I think I'll go post about this on a Beatles message board...

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Hello Ms. Pagette. Im glad that you are a grown woman. The way that you talk around here. I was beginning to think that you were a fifth grader. Maybe now you can act your real age. Plant may be one of the kindest most charitable persons out there on non LZ issues. I have only said that when it comes to "sharing LZ" with his fans he is selfish. I realize that the truth hurts sometimes and that is why you are all attacking me. And if you must "Curse" like fifth graders to make yourself feel better, then by all means have at it. I wont stoop that low. Im sure that more rank personal messages are soon to follow. No big deal, they are amusing. You all need to get a life outside of being Plant apologists. Back to my favorite Plant solo song now, Ya La.

Sharing Zep with his fans??? What does that mean? You completely miss the point of what everyone is saying to you. No one is viewing Robert as some perfect being or denying the truth. Actually YOU are not living in reality accusing him of withholding Zep to his fans. If that were the case, why would he have included Zep songs in his solo shows.

Really and truly stop with this selfish thing. Zep is done. Enjoy the incredible memories they've given us. Celebrate the fact they came together one more time to honor their friend but get over your whiny childishness.

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I think there may be a superstition factor to consider. Have you noticed how RP seems to go out of his way to appear humble? A recent example would include the Nicks/Sixers interview. He goes so far as to define "A song called Kashmir" as if we don't all know. I'm going to go out on a limb here and surmise that perhaps he believes he pays the price for the sin of pride, i.e his voice, his physicality, his son, his best friend.

If he was just plain sick of the material fans and lifestyle, he wouldn't have spent 4 years touring with Jimmy. Just venturing a guess. I'm not seeing the selfish angle.

I think you're right about the superstition factor. But, except for his voice, which was his fault - as a professional singer he should've known to take better care of it (and maybe Jimmy should've helped him there) - everything else was coincidental to being in Led Zeppelin. Led Zeppelin wasn't the cause, but the circrumstance surrounding those accidents and losses. Doesn't make them less traumatic, but, I honestly think the most healing thing he could do is get back in it. Back on the horse. Rock on, man!

If he had NEVER touched that again, it would be a different story. He keeps saying that going back to do Led Zeppelin is not artistically correct, yet he keeps doing it over and over. He seems to be okay without Bonzo in every other setting, at any rate. What's that about? It's ok for him to play it with everyone but the surviving originators all together? One way's pure, the other way isn't? I think he has the purity backwards in that equation. Yet, he always manages to benefit individually.

Probably that's where the impression of selfishness comes from...

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I think you're right about the superstition factor. But, except for his voice, which was his fault - as a professional singer he should've known to take better care of it (and maybe Jimmy should've helped him there) - everything else was coincidental to being in Led Zeppelin. Led Zeppelin wasn't the cause, but the circrumstance surrounding those accidents and losses. Doesn't make them less traumatic, but, I honestly think the most healing thing he could do is get back in it. Back on the horse. Rock on, man!

If he had NEVER touched that again, it would be a different story. He keeps saying that going back to do Led Zeppelin is not artistically correct, yet he keeps doing it over and over. He seems to be okay without Bonzo in every other setting, at any rate. What's that about? It's ok for him to play it with everyone but the surviving originators all together? One way's pure, the other way isn't? I think he has the purity backwards in that equation. Yet, he always manages to benefit individually.

Probably that's where the impression of selfishness comes from...

I think you have that right. I think perhaps Robert does want to play with Zep a little more than he lets on, but at the same time it seems wrong to him. Bonzo isn't there, and I think that's were his conflict lies. he wants to do it to a degree, but at the same time sees it as disrespectful, and the end result is he's caught between a rock and a hard place. and so his solution is to distance himself and do other things. as for playing Zep songs in other bands, I think he might see that as a way to release his desire to play a bit with Zep, by playing the same material, yet being able to forward the artistic value of the songs. he can change them around on his own, and it's ok, lot's of bands cover other bands and add their own flair, Zep certainly did. but if it's changed up as this 3/4 Zeppelin, it's not the same. the changes aren't really Zeppelin, Bonzo doesn't get a chance to provide his input, so it's not Zeppelin in the end. I think if the idea of doing a new album surfaced, of all 3 members, Plant would be the most opposed to the idea. Page & Plant was Plant's way of doing more Zep stuff, taking the songs further down the road, without slighting Bonzo. including Jones would have made it Zeppelin, and I don't think Jones understood that at first, he saw it as "son of a bitch, they're resurrecting Zep without me!" but I think now he understands that. Jimmy seems to be the one who can't move on, he keeps crawling back to the past, not seeing that it's over. Plant knows it's over and feels it is wrong to move on to a new relationship with Zep. I'm sure if they toured he'd get up on stage every night and think about how it used to be with Bonzo, and realize it's not the same, wishing it were Bonzo back there... it's a matter of emotions. Plant lost a significant other in Led Zep, and his solo career is his way of continuing, still relating to friends, but not having that significant other anymore. The Strange Sensation is the closest Plant has gotten to an actual band since LZ, it's always been just Robert Plant, or Robert Plant & The Strange Sensation. I think he feels the real LZ was a meaningful relationship that is now dead, and to move on by being involved with another would be like forgetting what was.

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I think you have that right. I think perhaps Robert does want to play with Zep a little more than he lets on, but at the same time it seems wrong to him. Bonzo isn't there, and I think that's were his conflict lies. he wants to do it to a degree, but at the same time sees it as disrespectful, and the end result is he's caught between a rock and a hard place. and so his solution is to distance himself and do other things. as for playing Zep songs in other bands, I think he might see that as a way to release his desire to play a bit with Zep, by playing the same material, yet being able to forward the artistic value of the songs. he can change them around on his own, and it's ok, lot's of bands cover other bands and add their own flair, Zep certainly did. but if it's changed up as this 3/4 Zeppelin, it's not the same. the changes aren't really Zeppelin, Bonzo doesn't get a chance to provide his input, so it's not Zeppelin in the end. I think if the idea of doing a new album surfaced, of all 3 members, Plant would be the most opposed to the idea. Page & Plant was Plant's way of doing more Zep stuff, taking the songs further down the road, without slighting Bonzo. including Jones would have made it Zeppelin, and I don't think Jones understood that at first, he saw it as "son of a bitch, they're resurrecting Zep without me!" but I think now he understands that. Jimmy seems to be the one who can't move on, he keeps crawling back to the past, not seeing that it's over. Plant knows it's over and feels it is wrong to move on to a new relationship with Zep. I'm sure if they toured he'd get up on stage every night and think about how it used to be with Bonzo, and realize it's not the same, wishing it were Bonzo back there... it's a matter of emotions. Plant lost a significant other in Led Zep, and his solo career is his way of continuing, still relating to friends, but not having that significant other anymore. The Strange Sensation is the closest Plant has gotten to an actual band since LZ, it's always been just Robert Plant, or Robert Plant & The Strange Sensation. I think he feels the real LZ was a meaningful relationship that is now dead, and to move on by being involved with another would be like forgetting what was.

That is a lovely post. Hadn't thought of it that way before.

Thing about loss is, to quote Ian Hunter... you keep going on, compromising the lack... what else can you do?

That's why it's significant that it was Jason Bonham stepping in... if Bonzo's son can compromise that lack, surely Robert can? Instead of locking what was in amber, honor it by keeping it alive, for everyone involved (including the fans...)

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as for playing Zep songs in other bands, I think he might see that as a way to release his desire to play a bit with Zep, by playing the same material, yet being able to forward the artistic value of the songs. he can change them around on his own

I disagree with some things you all have been saying, such as the superstition part, but I think this is a good way to put it in terms of why and how he wants to play (SOME) Zeppelin material, while still remaining a solo artist.

(See, steve51, it's not the disagreement that's the problem, it's when folks make the same point 50,000 times, which becomes very annoying!)

(Very, very annoying.)

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I wouldn't really put too much in what Robert Plant is saying or not saying right now about more future Led Zep shows. Saying Yes now will only lure concert goers and fans alike away from the tour he's doing with AK. Whilst saying No now will suddenly wane the resurrected mania for LZ. On the other hand, by remaining coy/mum about the matter will only drive the fans young and old, new and old insane and clamour for more. JP and JPJ can be vocal all they want with doing more LZ shows, it drums up interest from the public, and they're not tied to any promoting of sorts. Robert cannot will not put it out there. Just yet. The AK tour is still under way. This is showbiz.

On the flip side of things, there's Led Zep the music. We all know that after all the hype surrounding the LZ era - Robert's sex symbol appeal, the hotel raucuses - the band really had a talent that set them apart. Robert can really sing, looking nice just came handy. Jimmy Page owns the patent for the word Guitarist. JPJ is that schooled musician with his own brand. The barbarous snare of JB's drums has never been equalled by any since 1980. And then there's the music. Mystical. Lyrical. Simply damn good lyrics. Simply damn good beat. Simpy damn good songs. Simply damn good rock music. This left them all with the indellible mark as the GREATEST ROCK BAND IN HISTORY. Not the Beatles. Not Queen. This is their permanent trademark. After the break-up each of them went their own way: to raise families, to make individual music, in Robert's case to escape(?) the LZ shadow as he calls it ... to fall into individual obscurity. They've already enjoyed the years of soul-searching slash getting over JB's death slash living out of the past. They've also realize that making music collectively is what they do so damn well. They did not really make much buzz even if they tried to individually on their own. To pass up on this opportunity to get back together, with or without JB, is mind-bogglingly DUFF. I mean 28 years after the guy's death. After all the years of individual obscurity surely you have gotten over it!

Edited by Robert's Plant
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This is their permanent trademark. After the break-up each of them went their own way: to raise families, to make individual music, in Robert's case to escape(?) the LZ shadow as he calls it ... to fall into individual obscurity. They've already enjoyed the years of soul-searching slash getting over JB's death slash living out of the past. They've also realize that making music collectively is what they do so damn well. They did not really make much buzz even if they tried to individually on their own. To pass up on this opportunity to get back together, with or without JB, is mind-bogglingly DUFF. I mean 28 years after the guy's death. After all the years of individual obscurity surely you have gotten over it!

I don't think Robert embarked on a solo career to escape the Led Zeppelin shadow. I think he was and is extremely passionate about creating music and at 32 when Zep ended, he wasn't ready to throw in the towel. His choosing to do the first two solo tours sans Zep songs was because he wanted to establish himself on his own and not rely on the past. But that's not to say he was denying it. Clearly when he felt the time was right (88) he started singing them again as part of his live shows.

Yes they did collectively make great music. But so have they individually. Just because their albums don't sell the same as Zep isn't a measure of how good they are. I'd hardly call them obscure on their own.

Pass up an opportunity? They've had offers to tour I'm sure since the 80s. It's all down to personal choice and what THEY want. As many have said, myself included, they owe us nothing because they've given so much already. And to say they've gotten over John's death, well I don't think that's for us to say. John was a very close friend of Robert's and a very important part of the success of Zep.

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I don't think Robert embarked on a solo career to escape the Led Zeppelin shadow. I think he was and is extremely passionate about creating music and at 32 when Zep ended, he wasn't ready to throw in the towel. His choosing to do the first two solo tours sans Zep songs was because he wanted to establish himself on his own and not rely on the past. But that's not to say he was denying it. Clearly when he felt the time was right (88) he started singing them again as part of his live shows.

Yes they did collectively make great music. But so have they individually. Just because their albums don't sell the same as Zep isn't a measure of how good they are. I'd hardly call them obscure on their own.

Pass up an opportunity? They've had offers to tour I'm sure since the 80s. It's all down to personal choice and what THEY want. As many have said, myself included, they owe us nothing because they've given so much already. And to say they've gotten over John's death, well I don't think that's for us to say. John was a very close friend of Robert's and a very important part of the success of Zep.

I don't think any of what I said was meant to undermine the talents of the group individually, or be apathetic to the band's loss of JB, or Robert's solo career, or the band's solo for that matter. These are great musicians of our time.

Obviously miscontrued, I said what I said to bring home the point that a Led Zep show with a non-Zep (with the exception of Jason, before you jump on your guns) simply is not Led Zep. Isnt that the topic of this thread?

Robert Plant has indicated long time ago as a Zep and post-Zep that to him it's all about the music. And we all dig that.

That John Bonham was an integral part of the group's success is a fact for me and you obviously to see. That he was very close to Robert Plant was no denying.

If the word obscure offended you in any way then then I should have to find a more suitable word for you.

I know they've given their fans a lot. Most especially you obviously. I did not say they owe us the show.

I just wont want a show headlined Led Zep without Robert Plant, Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones together in it. I won't either enjoy a show if a drummer not remotely related to JB was snaring. Get it?

Theyve done it for Ertegun .... hope they'd re-live the glory days even just for the sake of John Bonham's memory. But then it's not for you or I to say. We can all dish our wish lists, but as you say it all boils down to what THEY want.

Edited by Robert's Plant
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He seems to be okay without Bonzo in every other setting, at any rate. What's that about? It's ok for him to play it with everyone but the surviving originators all together? One way's pure, the other way isn't? I think he has the purity backwards in that equation. Yet, he always manages to benefit individually.

Thank You, that's exactly what I have been trying to say.

Theyve done it for Ertegun

Maybe it is time that they (Plant that is) do one for the fans too, whats wrong with that??

Edited by steve51
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Plant has brought this question of purity on himself. Over the many years........one minute he wants to play with Page, the next he dose not............one minute play LZ while solo, the next not............one minute think that Stairway to Heaven is a albatros around his neck, the next sing it............and on and on and on until you start to question his integrity.

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Plant has brought this question of purity on himself. Over the many years........one minute he wants to play with Page, the next he dose not............one minute play LZ while solo, the next not............one minute think that Stairway to Heaven is a albatros around his neck, the next sing it............and on and on and on until you start to question his integrity.

No you don't. Times change.

Again, what does this have to do with purity? Please?

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Plant has brought this question of purity on himself. Over the many years........one minute he wants to play with Page, the next he dose not............one minute play LZ while solo, the next not............one minute think that Stairway to Heaven is a albatros around his neck, the next sing it............and on and on and on until you start to question his integrity.

It has nothing to do with intergrity. He's creative - it's about what he feels at that moment. Robert is someone who's always moving forward and changing his musical direction. He seems to rebel against repetitiveness and stagnation. So why is it bad that he worked with Page and then chose to do something else. I don't read that as anything bad. As far as Stairway, he played that only in the context of the Zep reunion and it's not something he chooses to include in his own shows. So what? It has nothing to do with integrity but you have some bug up your arse about Robert and you seem to think the only place he belongs is with Zep. No matter what anyone says, that's your argument.

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Websters Definition: PURE- Having a homogeneous or uniform composition; not mixed.

Websters Definition: INTEGRITY- Rigid adherence to a code of behavior; probity.

Well.............over the years just about everything Plant has said about LZ is mixed (see my last post). And, when someone gives "mixed" signals over and over again and is all over the board on something, people might start to question that persons integrity.

Edited by steve51
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It has nothing to do with intergrity. He's creative - it's about what he feels at that moment. Robert is someone who's always moving forward and changing his musical direction. He seems to rebel against repetitiveness and stagnation. So why is it bad that he worked with Page and then chose to do something else. I don't read that as anything bad. As far as Stairway, he played that only in the context of the Zep reunion and it's not something he chooses to include in his own shows. So what? It has nothing to do with integrity but you have some bug up your arse about Robert and you seem to think the only place he belongs is with Zep. No matter what anyone says, that's your argument.

Wow have you become an Anglophile? You said ARSE :D

Its the " It has to be Zep or nothing" people who annoy me. :angry:

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Thank You, that's exactly what I have been trying to say.

Maybe it is time that they (Plant that is)do one for the fans too, whats wrong with that??

wait... the O2 wasn't for fans? gosh... I could have swore there were an awful lot of fans there...

Edited by Zephyrus
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