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Royal Albert Hall setlist


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My best friends mom was at this show, or so she says.

She noted that Jethro Tull had a concert on the same night, but in her own words: "we said fuck that, we went to see Zeppelin!".

Does anyone know if Jethro Tull played a concert in/near London on the same night? If so, this would give her quite a bit of credibility.

Even if they did and her story checks out, I suppose the chances of her remembering if or if not they played a particular song is relatively slim. It will still be interesting if her story turns out to be true though.

Till then I will throw down my arms and say they did play it.

The no audio thing really doesn't sit right with me though.

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Based on ????? Evidence please!

Does your personal opinion trump the reviewer's mention of the song by name in Melody Maker the following week?

By the way, for everyone saying "why wasn't it recorded?" the fact is, it was. It is widely known, and had been discussed at the time of the release of the 2003 DVD that the reels for the 1/9/70 show were all over the damn place and they either couldn't find all of them, or salvage all of them for release.

Here's a link to an interview with some background on the 2003 DVD release.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov03/arti...evinshirley.htm

It's interesting to note the following comment:

"We did the Royal Albert Hall material first," recalls Shirley. "It was obvious that this was a great show from a great period in the band's history. Even as we were mixing the music they were still digging up footage from all sorts of places. The visuals were recorded on a variety of formats, and there were cameras that ran out of film, so we couldn't use a couple of songs, like 'Heartbreaker', because there was no footage at all. As you can see on the DVD, in some songs they had to use stills to cover missing footage. They took a lot of care in matching the video to the audio, sometimes working frame by frame."

Here's another link to director Dick Carruther's comment regarding the RAH show:

At times, Dick expresses frustration at the "almost but not enough" segments he discovered. "We had more Albert Hall" he said, "but there were just too many holes in the footage".

This comment was taken from Tight But Loose: http://www.tightbutloose.co.uk/dvdpreview.html

I'd like to start by saying it's not really a fact. You simply cannot translate "there was missing footage" to mean "there was missing footage of SIBLY" and call it fact.

They could very well just be talking about Heartbreaker and Organ Solo/Thank You. That's almost 20 some minutes of stuff right there. The only fact is, we don't really know for sure.

The only real convincing evidence you have is the Melody Maker review, and yes, I understand this is more than I've got.

I have much respect for your knowledge and I hope you don't take it as a personal shot... quite simply, I will debate about anything just for the sake of debate...

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I agree I don't know if indeed it was played...I wouldn't go on the accuracy of the MM review, either. I remember reading an old copy of either NME or MM that claimed the Who played the obscure "Imagine a Man" at Houston in 1975...first, the COMPLETE show exists in both SBD and video, with the song not being played, and second, they NEVER EVER played the song. Countless other reviews of shows have been wrong as well (see the one I mention above from Chicago 1977 when the guy slams the end of the show when they only lasted 6 songs since Jimmy collapsed!)...oftentimes reviewers would review a show they didn't even go to based on a previous one they did attend...it's possible this guy for MM saw the nights before and just slapped it on as an RAH review...

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I have no proof that SIBLY was played that night but I must say that the MM review makes me think it was. Remember that this was a new song that was added into the set list long before the third album was released so it would not have been something the reviewer could easily have been mistaken about as he knew the name of the song. Given that it was played during the previous gig and subsequent gigs just adds some creedence. As for the gig being filmed and not wanting to include it because it was a new untested song, I think film editing could have looked after that problem.

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I'd like to start by saying it's not really a fact. You simply cannot translate "there was missing footage" to mean "there was missing footage of SIBLY" and call it fact.

They could very well just be talking about Heartbreaker and Organ Solo/Thank You. That's almost 20 some minutes of stuff right there. The only fact is, we don't really know for sure.

The only real convincing evidence you have is the Melody Maker review, and yes, I understand this is more than I've got.

I have much respect for your knowledge and I hope you don't take it as a personal shot... quite simply, I will debate about anything just for the sake of debate...

I didn't take as a personal shot, but I just could not understand how you could say CONCLUSIVELY: "Hate to break it to you, but it wasn't played" with absolutely no evidence to support your position. At least I quoted the Melody Maker review, and submitted as CORROBORATIVE (not conclusive) evidence that there was missing footage all over the place when people were questioning why SIBLY doesn't exist.

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I didn't take as a personal shot, but I just could not understand how you could say CONCLUSIVELY: "Hate to break it to you, but it wasn't played" with absolutely no evidence to support your position. At least I quoted the Melody Maker review, and submitted as CORROBORATIVE (not conclusive) evidence that there was missing footage all over the place when people were questioning why SIBLY doesn't exist.

I had some evidence that backed his opinion. Look at post #16

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I have no proof that SIBLY was played that night but I must say that the MM review makes me think it was. Remember that this was a new song that was added into the set list long before the third album was released so it would not have been something the reviewer could easily have been mistaken about as he knew the name of the song. Given that it was played during the previous gig and subsequent gigs just adds some creedence. As for the gig being filmed and not wanting to include it because it was a new untested song, I think film editing could have looked after that problem.

That's true, but these were indeed concerts to promote their 3rd album... in addition, SIBLY is one of those songs that Plant commonly introduced by name: "We're going to feature John Paul Jones on the organ once again... it's called Since I've Been Loving You", shit like that... so it's not out of the question that people knew the title of it.

To me, it would make a lot more sense if they were there to do a review of the first show of 1970, and not the second, in interests of writing/reviewing whats to come on the 3rd album... By that time, a different publication could have beat them to the punch by a week... something that isn't very good in the journalism business... but, yes, it is pure speculation with no merit.

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That's true, but these were indeed concerts to promote their 3rd album... in addition, SIBLY is one of those songs that Plant commonly introduced by name: "We're going to feature John Paul Jones on the organ once again... it's called Since I've Been Loving You", shit like that... so it's not out of the question that people knew the title of it.

To me, it would make a lot more sense if they were there to do a review of the first show of 1970, and not the second, in interests of writing/reviewing whats to come on the 3rd album... By that time, a different publication could have beat them to the punch by a week... something that isn't very good in the journalism business... but, yes, it is pure speculation with no merit.

This is what I think happened...they reviewed the first show but passed it off as the RAH show...it's been done numerous times (too many to count) over the years...

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Melody Maker was based out of London, not Bristol. Why would the reviewer go to Bristol instead of the more important and high profile gig in his home territory?

I just dug up some more evidence. In the 1/17/70 of New Musical Express, Nick Logan reviewed the 1/9/70 gig. According to Logan, after the "White Summer" solo and "midway through the set John Paul Jones switched to Hammond organ for a segment of quieter Led Zeppelin not previously heard on stage, before John Bonham's "Moby Dick" drum solo brought him to a standing ovation."

Considering that the band had played "Since I've Been Loving You" inbetween White Summer and Moby Dick the night before in Bristol, it stands to reason that this is the song Logan was probably referring to. He just didn't know what the name of the song was.

Evidence on the side of playing the SIBLY:

- they played it the night before in Bristol

- a Melody Maker reviewer of the gig mentioned the song by name and said it was the best song of the evening (10 months before the song was actually released on Zeppelin III)

- a New Musical Express reviewer mentioned a new song featuring JPJ in the exact same part of the concert they played it the night before

- it has been widely documented that there were a lot of holes in both the audio and video of the 1/9/70 concert

Evidence on the side of them NOT playing SIBLY:

- no audio or video proof

Where do you think the preponderence of the evidence lies?

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My best friends mom was at this show, or so she says.

She noted that Jethro Tull had a concert on the same night, but in her own words: "we said fuck that, we went to see Zeppelin!".

Does anyone know if Jethro Tull played a concert in/near London on the same night? If so, this would give her quite a bit of credibility.

Even if they did and her story checks out, I suppose the chances of her remembering if or if not they played a particular song is relatively slim. It will still be interesting if her story turns out to be true though.

Till then I will throw down my arms and say they did play it.

The no audio thing really doesn't sit right with me though.

Just looked at what appears to be a pretty good Jethro Tull database: http://www.ministry-of-information.co.uk/setlist/70.htm

Though it shows Jethro Tull were in London recording/rehearsing at Morgan Studios in early January 1970, it appears they didn't play any concerts there...

For reference, I looked into where each of these establishments were... and it appears Morgan Studios is about 7 miles from Royal Albert Hall.

What do you guys think? Coincidence? It's hard to say.

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Melody Maker was based out of London, not Bristol. Why would the reviewer go to Bristol instead of the more important and high profile gig in his home territory?

I just dug up some more evidence. In the 1/17/70 of New Musical Express, Nick Logan reviewed the 1/9/70 gig. According to Logan, after the "White Summer" solo and "midway through the set John Paul Jones switched to Hammond organ for a segment of quieter Led Zeppelin not previously heard on stage, before John Bonham's "Moby Dick" drum solo brought him to a standing ovation."

Considering that the band had played "Since I've Been Loving You" inbetween White Summer and Moby Dick the night before in Bristol, it stands to reason that this is the song Logan was probably referring to. He just didn't know what the name of the song was.

Evidence on the side of playing the SIBLY:

- they played it the night before in Bristol

- a Melody Maker reviewer of the gig mentioned the song by name and said it was the best song of the evening (10 months before the song was actually released on Zeppelin III)

- a New Musical Express reviewer mentioned a new song featuring JPJ in the exact same part of the concert they played it the night before

- it has been widely documented that there were a lot of holes in both the audio and video of the 1/9/70 concert

Evidence on the side of them NOT playing SIBLY:

- no audio or video proof

Where do you think the preponderence of the evidence lies?

You're again forgetting about Organ Solo/Thank You... This was also a new number, and just as quiet, if not quieter than SIBLY... in fact this was DIRECTLY before Moby Dick in the setlist... Seems the reviewer was correct... but there's just as much evidence that this guy was talking about Thank You, not SIBLY. Especially since JPJ's organ solo directly preceded Thank You...

So we're back at square 1... everything on the pro-SIBLY side except the Melody Maker review is circumstantial...

In all reality, you're probably right... the guy said "a segment of quieter Led Zeppelin...", which probably meant SIBLY and Organ Solo/Thank You... (you don't normally call one solo/song a "segment", ya know?) but I'm going to keep arguing the other side nonetheless.

Edited because I can.

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You're again forgetting about Organ Solo/Thank You... This was also a new number, and just as quiet, if not quieter than SIBLY... in fact this was DIRECTLY before Moby Dick in the setlist... Seems the reviewer was correct... but there's just as much evidence that this guy was talking about Thank You, not SIBLY. Especially since JPJ's organ solo directly preceded Thank You...

So we're back at square 1... everything on the pro-SIBLY side except the Melody Maker review is circumstantial...

In all reality, you're probably right... the guy said "a segment of quieter Led Zeppelin...", which probably meant SIBLY and Organ Solo/Thank You... (you don't normally call one solo/song a "segment", ya know?) but I'm going to keep arguing the other side nonetheless.

Edited because I can.

Then why are they not recorded on the boot?

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I have a good question for everyone...

What in the world was the deal with What Is And What Should Never Be?

They played it consistently by the end of 1969, then early in 1970 they seem to do it randomly for a bit. They didn't play it for the performance before in Bristol... and they didn't do it again after RAH till March 10th in Germany... then they skip a few performances and start playing it again on March 14th.

Anyone else wondering WTF?

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I have a good question for everyone...

What in the world was the deal with What Is And What Should Never Be?

They played it consistently by the end of 1969, then early in 1970 they seem to do it randomly for a bit. They didn't play it for the performance before in Bristol... and they didn't do it again after RAH till March 10th in Germany... then they skip a few performances and start playing it again on March 14th.

Anyone else wondering WTF?

They probably didn't like to play it much for the earlier existence of their song in live sets, performances wouldn't really pick up until late 1970, then it was a staple in their setlists until 1972.

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You're again forgetting about Organ Solo/Thank You... This was also a new number, and just as quiet, if not quieter than SIBLY... in fact this was DIRECTLY before Moby Dick in the setlist... Seems the reviewer was correct... but there's just as much evidence that this guy was talking about Thank You, not SIBLY. Especially since JPJ's organ solo directly preceded Thank You...

So we're back at square 1... everything on the pro-SIBLY side except the Melody Maker review is circumstantial...

In all reality, you're probably right... the guy said "a segment of quieter Led Zeppelin...", which probably meant SIBLY and Organ Solo/Thank You... (you don't normally call one solo/song a "segment", ya know?) but I'm going to keep arguing the other side nonetheless.

Edited because I can.

Seems strange that the reviewer wouldn't be able to identify Thank You by name since it had been released a few months earlier on Led Zeppelin II. He certainly had no problem with mentioning Moby Dick by name.

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They probably didn't like to play it much for the earlier existence of their song in live sets, performances wouldn't really pick up until late 1970, then it was a staple in their setlists until 1972.

Didn't like to play it much? They played it at nearly every show from October 1969 till early January 1970...

I think they were trying to revamp their set list for 1970...

Instead of dropping What Is and What Should Never Be like they initially tried, they decided to drop I Can't Quit You instead. (Bad choice, IMO, but whatever)

Then a month or two later they dropped We're Gonna Groove in favor of Immigrant Song and brought Bring It On Home into the main set rather than an having it as an encore... which became the next big set list we all know.

More reason to question the RAH setlist?

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Seems strange that the reviewer wouldn't be able to identify Thank You by name since it had been released a few months earlier on Led Zeppelin II. He certainly had no problem with mentioning Moby Dick by name.

Indeed. I agree with you in believing that "Since I've Been Loving You" was played that night.

We should all note that no complete version of the Royal Albert Hall show has ever been released. I've never heard complete versions of "Heartbreaker" or "Thank You," and the most complete version of the "Long Tall Sally" medley I've heard has been the version released in the past few years, claiming to be an "outtake" from the compilation of DVD.

I find it very easy to believe that: 1) The performance was considered substandard, (as Eddie Edwards seems to conjecture [also note this being the reason why Led Zeppelin wasn't included on the Live Aid DVD - although there the performance was hampered by lack of adequate tuning and intoxication, for the most part]); or 2) there is no (or no acceptable) film of the performance.

The first reason above seems to be why "Thank You" might have been left off of DVD. The second is why "Heartbreaker" [as well as a few other numbers, according to the quote on the second page] is only found as background music in a menu and in the credits.

Ultimately...we can't be sure, I suppose, until someone close to the source makes a definitive statement one way or another. I'd probably follow (for the most part) the setlist given in the timeline at the website here.

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Indeed. I agree with you in believing that "Since I've Been Loving You" was played that night.

We should all note that no complete version of the Royal Albert Hall show has ever been released. I've never heard complete versions of "Heartbreaker" or "Thank You," and the most complete version of the "Long Tall Sally" medley I've heard has been the version released in the past few years, claiming to be an "outtake" from the compilation of DVD.

I find it very easy to believe that: 1) The performance was considered substandard, (as Eddie Edwards seems to conjecture [also note this being the reason why Led Zeppelin wasn't included on the Live Aid DVD - although there the performance was hampered by lack of adequate tuning and intoxication, for the most part]); or 2) there is no (or no acceptable) film of the performance.

The first reason above seems to be why "Thank You" might have been left off of DVD. The second is why "Heartbreaker" [as well as a few other numbers, according to the quote on the second page] is only found as background music in a menu and in the credits.

Ultimately...we can't be sure, I suppose, until someone close to the source makes a definitive statement one way or another. I'd probably follow (for the most part) the setlist given in the timeline at the website here.

Heartbreaker was left off because of the incomplete audio.. I guess the video could have been bad too, but the incomplete audio is proven.

Personally, I think it was the best Heartbreaker I've ever heard. Since it was so nearly complete, I think they should have pulled a TSRTS and faded out the music and added in to some sort of other scene till the next song (like backstage footage or something). They could have also done this during Organ Solo/Thank You to run with the same theme. Would've been cool to see for us "we want it all" type fanatics...

As for Live Aid, don't forget the lack of adequate drumming... (though it's funny we say inadequate when there was 2 drummers)

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