McSeven Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Zep has always bounced between these two styles. So what is Metal? What is Hard Rock and where do Zep fit in. I belive that Zep are a Hard rock band with soul. Certain songs can be contrives as metalish. Immigrant song. Achillies Last Stand. Parts of In my time of dying. Metal to me is hard and intense and has a dark tone to it. Judas Priest/Metalica to me are Heavy Metal. Hard Rock has blues and soul to the sound. AcDc/Aerosmith are Hard rock. There is something sunny within thier song structure. GS7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanadu Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Zep has always bounced between these two styles. So what is Metal? What is Hard Rock and where do Zep fit in. I belive that Zep are a Hard rock band with soul. Certain songs can be contrives as metalish. Immigrant song. Achillies Last Stand. Parts of In my time of dying. Metal to me is hard and intense and has a dark tone to it. Judas Priest/Metalica to me are Heavy Metal. Hard Rock has blues and soul to the sound. AcDc/Aerosmith are Hard rock. There is something sunny within thier song structure. GS7 My suspicion about rock/pop genres is that they are mainly marketing tools for record companies, so that each band could develop a certain image which would then help sell as many albums, T-shirts, tickets etc. as possible, and I'm a bit sorry for the bands who are pressured into getting in a rut musically. I'm also extremely grateful that LZ had the artistic freedom to develop their vision to whichever direction they chose. Maybe now that music can be spread around via internet, young bands can again find more freedom and independence from record companies. About so called mainstream metal then. I guess your statement is generally true, but not entirely. There are for example metal ballads, and humorous or parodic metal songs and music videos (Immigrant song, Breaking the Law), and songs which build from one place to another (Welcome Home Sanitarium). Led Zeppelin surely has been an inspiration for countless numbers of metal bands, and eg. this hilarious and parodic power-metal song resembles Immigrant Song quite a bit, in spirit at least. Teräsbetoni; Taivas Lyö Tulta (with English lyrics) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkxDtqL2_Tw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarlaxle 56 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Black Sabbath were the first Heavy Metal band. End of discussion...anything that stems from Sabbath, directly or very indirectly is 'metal', in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDog71 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Black Sabbath were the first Heavy Metal band. End of discussion...anything that stems from Sabbath, directly or very indirectly is 'metal', in my opinion. Agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Blue Cheer is actually credited with being the first hard rock band. As for Zeppelin, at least one third of their recorded output is acoustic. Yeah, their music can also be "heavy" but there's so much more to them that such as the world music aspect. They also drew heavily from rockabilly and country music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I never thought of Zep as metal. Any "hard" sound they had to my ears is blues based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanadu Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I never thought of Zep as metal. Any "hard" sound they had to my ears is blues based. Yes, but what type of rock-music isn't originally blues based? I think it's fair to say that some part of Led Zeppelin's music is early metal, alhough LZ is not a metal band as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Yes, but what type of rock-music isn't originally blues based? I think it's fair to say that some part of Led Zeppelin's music is early metal, alhough LZ is not a metal band as such. It is but I'm just saying to my ears, when I think of metal, I don't hear it in Zep's music. Just my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4urlife Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 They always seemed to be a little of both, in my opinion. More in the hard rock category than metal though. There's no denying the influence they had on metal bands that appeared after them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Yes, but what type of rock-music isn't originally blues based? Lots. Not every rock n' roll band is blues based. Thank goodness for that or I'd grow tired of it pretty quick. That said, I do love the blues and blues-based rock n' roll but I also like some variety in the music I listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanadu Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Lots. Not every rock n' roll band is blues based. Thank goodness for that or I'd grow tired of it pretty quick. That said, I do love the blues and blues-based rock n' roll but I also like some variety in the music I listen to. By saying "originally blues based", I meant I find it hard to believe they would exist if blues and country, gospel, and Chuck Berry and Elvis... hadn't happened before them. Maybe there is something from other sources, but I just haven't heard about it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zachman Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 without zeppelin sabbath wouldnt have been sabbath.. yes they took it to a new level but ill take zeppelins first album over ANYTHING sabbath put out.. alot of iommis riffs sound like early page .. communicaTion breakdown and dazed and confused both share riffs in sabbath songs.. the one with daZed ive seen sites on it.. havent looked at it in awhile tho.. forget site ..but i get tired of hearing how much heavier sabbath are than zeppelin.. zeps first album and achilles last stand created speed metal maybe on the spot and in my time of dying and immigrant song.. these are heavy ass songs and its all led by bonzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 without zeppelin sabbath wouldnt have been sabbath.. yes they took it to a new level but ill take zeppelins first album over ANYTHING sabbath put out.. alot of iommis riffs sound like early page .. communicaTion breakdown and dazed and confused both share riffs in sabbath songs.. the one with daZed ive seen sites on it.. havent looked at it in awhile tho.. forget site ..but i get tired of hearing how much heavier sabbath are than zeppelin.. zeps first album and achilles last stand created speed metal maybe on the spot and in my time of dying and immigrant song.. these are heavy ass songs and its all led by bonzo I think Sabbath's first couple of albums are pretty intense and to me way darker and heavier than Zep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PennyLane Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I think Sabbath's first couple of albums are pretty intense and to me way darker and heavier than Zep. Totally agree! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zachman Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Totally agree! :D whether its heavier or not its not better.. ill say that much..ill take zeppelin whether its soft hard mellow anyday.. so damn versatile.. sabbath couldnt dream of being as versatile.. really a one style band.. they did have a couple slower piano songs with ozzy sounding good..but besides i think they knew they couldnt be versatile so they stayed in one boundary which they did very well but zeppelin tested the boundaries always Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 whether its heavier or not its not better.. ill say that much..ill take zeppelin whether its soft hard mellow anyday.. so damn versatile.. sabbath couldnt dream of being as versatile.. really a one style band.. they did have a couple slower piano songs with ozzy sounding good..but besides i think they knew they couldnt be versatile so they stayed in one boundary which they did very well but zeppelin tested the boundaries always I wasn't saying Sabbath is better because I think Zep is light years ahead of them musically (but I still love their first couple of albums). I was just commenting on the sound as such and I think of Sabbath more as metal than Zep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ady Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 sabbath couldnt dream of being as versatile.. really a one style band.. they did have a couple slower piano songs with ozzy sounding good..but besides i think they knew they couldnt be versatile so they stayed in one boundary They may not have been as diverse as Led Zep, but Sabbath's music did progress through each album. By the time they got to Sabbath Bloody Sabbath they sounded very different, more prog than metal on most of the tracks. Spiral Architect, for example: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_lz4xeA48GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danelectro Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 without zeppelin sabbath wouldnt have been sabbath.. yes they took it to a new level but ill take zeppelins first album over ANYTHING sabbath put out.. alot of iommis riffs sound like early page .. communicaTion breakdown and dazed and confused both share riffs in sabbath songs.. the one with daZed ive seen sites on it.. havent looked at it in awhile tho.. forget site ..but i get tired of hearing how much heavier sabbath are than zeppelin.. zeps first album and achilles last stand created speed metal maybe on the spot and in my time of dying and immigrant song.. these are heavy ass songs and its all led by bonzo Nah, Sabbath's influences were Savoy Brown, Ten Years After, Cream and the other 2nd wave Brit blues bands that were starting to get hard long before Zep. Many bands were dabbling in hard edged rock before Zep and Sab, as influential as both of those bands became they started late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zachman Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Nah, Sabbath's influences were Savoy Brown, Ten Years After, Cream and the other 2nd wave Brit blues bands that were starting to get hard long before Zep. Many bands were dabbling in hard edged rock before Zep and Sab, as influential as both of those bands became they started late. but think.. pagey was doing it in studio sessions withthe kinks and the yardbirds on arrangements of jake holmes' dazed and confused and such.. jimmy was doing hard things for years.. jeff beck band also were heavy people say.. i disagree that their sound had anything to do with zeppelin being hard on the first album just because page had been doing it for awhile before zeppelin.. and it just so happened page got a band with a banshee at vocals a hard hitter in bonzo and a bassist with so many bad ass basslines that it all fit together perfectly.. and to respond i know you werent saying sabbath was better but i was just putting that out there.. zeppelin deserves that respect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danelectro Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 but think.. pagey was doing it in studio sessions withthe kinks and the yardbirds on arrangements of jake holmes' dazed and confused and such.. jimmy was doing hard things for years.. jeff beck band also were heavy people say.. i disagree that their sound had anything to do with zeppelin being hard on the first album just because page had been doing it for awhile before zeppelin.. and it just so happened page got a band with a banshee at vocals a hard hitter in bonzo and a bassist with so many bad ass basslines that it all fit together perfectly.. and to respond i know you werent saying sabbath was better but i was just putting that out there.. zeppelin deserves that respect I am well aware of Page's history and familiar with his work but bands like Savoy Brown, Cream, Hendrix, Ten Years After and many more were quite a bit heavier than anything he did in the Yardbirds. I'm not implying anyone is better but as far as heavy goes Zep and Page came well after other heavy bands. Even Sabbath when they were still calling themselves Earth goes back as far as Zep does into 1968. It's just the way it is and shouldn't matter, music isn't a race, being first at something matters not. Yes Zep played some heavy music but so did a lot of other bands. As great as they were there isn't a reason to reinvent history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I am well aware of Page's history and familiar with his work but bands like Savoy Brown, Cream, Hendrix, Ten Years After and many more were quite a bit heavier than anything he did in the Yardbirds. I'm not implying anyone is better but as far as heavy goes Zep and Page came well after other heavy bands. Even Sabbath when they were still calling themselves Earth goes back as far as Zep does into 1968. It's just the way it is and shouldn't matter, music isn't a race, being first at something matters not. Yes Zep played some heavy music but so did a lot of other bands. As great as they were there isn't a reason to reinvent history. I think that's true of most genres - there are bands or artists who were creating within that sound (metal, rap, etc.) but remained below the radar and along comes someone who takes it and brings it more into the forefront and often get coined as being the founders. Doesn't really matter to me who started what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie29 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I think that's true of most genres - there are bands or artists who were creating within that sound (metal, rap, etc.) but remained below the radar and along comes someone who takes it and brings it more into the forefront and often get coined as being the founders. Doesn't really matter to me who started what. Led Zeppelin is a genre out there on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danelectro Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I think that's true of most genres - there are bands or artists who were creating within that sound (metal, rap, etc.) but remained below the radar and along comes someone who takes it and brings it more into the forefront and often get coined as being the founders. Doesn't really matter to me who started what. I think it has less to do with a band bringing it to the forefront than being lucky enough attain immense fame via their music. There really isn't a formula for success with music. Many great and pioneering bands never catch on, many undeserving artists are many times more popular than those who are innovative. Led Zeppelin had the benefit of catching on they could have just as easily been more like Mott The Hoople or Free with only moderate success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I think it has less to do with a band bringing it to the forefront than being lucky enough attain immense fame via their music. There really isn't a formula for success with music. Many great and pioneering bands never catch on, many undeserving artists are many times more popular than those who are innovative. Led Zeppelin had the benefit of catching on they could have just as easily been more like Mott The Hoople or Free with only moderate success. Quite possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danelectro Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Examples of early hard rock. Check out the wicked guitar in this one. Sabbath was big into this band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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