BUCK'EYE' DOC Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 You don't think the men who fought for independence brought terror to those who chose to side with the Crown? Do you know what happened to the Loyalists? The Loyalists fled back to England. I don't know of any incidents where any loyalists were harmed. Maybe just tarred and feathered! The armies fought with very strick and rigid rules of engagement, very "gentlemanly", if you will. Civilians were not involved in the fighting. The British soldiers did wreck havoc on the country folk in the south, though. The movie "The Patriot" has an acurate description of some of thier acts, as it was a true depiction of what happened. Here is a bio of the British General I am referring to: http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/army/p/tarleton.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Do you know what happened to the Loyalists? The Convention of the State of New York (1776) resolved that "any person being an adherent to the King of Great Britain should be guilty of treason and sentenced to death". War is hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepyep Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Hi all,What a fuzzy feeling I have inside! Guys, youre missing the point. No one here is comparing the Founding Fathers with Bin Laden literally. But if you look at what they're trying to do, similarities can be found. Literally,but similarity can be found,ok. Bin Laden "fights" to avenge his people and bring down an empire that he feels has wronged him. The Founding Fathers did the same thing. His people?He is the son of Saudi prince.He didn't like that SA let, US forces to stage in gulf war 1,he didn't mind that that US(satan) armed his fellow warriors against the Soviets in Afghanistan.You forgot that? You think that the US,founding fathers did the same thing? You boy,need a new History lesson,... Modern Terrorists are fighting for what they believe in. Same with the Founding Fathers. Lost all respect for you. Your done. Modern Terrorists are trying to reshape the world (or lands, whatever) as they see it should be run. Did not the Founding Fathers do the same thing with America? KB(gag and never mind0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 His people?He is the son of Saudi prince.He didn't like that SA let, US forces to stage in gulf war 1,he didn't mind that that US(satan) armed his fellow warriors against the Soviets in Afghanistan.You forgot that? You think that the US,founding fathers did the same thing? You boy,need a new History lesson,... Kevin, I'm aware of all that you just posted. If you noticed, I said that "He feels" not me. I hate him and everything he stands for just as you do. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate to show you what we meant. Lost all respect for you. Your done. I don't care. You burp every post. Your respect for me matters little, no offense. KB(gag and never mind0 Whatever dude, you misunderstood the whole post, as well as the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Oh god, a conspiracy theorist No conspiracy, you know I only talk about the facts, you can easily check them, they are all on the internet. We are not a terrorist state. Yes you are, the CIA is the largest terrorist organisation in the world, Fact. We do not support the Irish Republican Army. The IRA was supported by the US Government from the 60s to the 90s, over 30 years, fact. We do not support the overthrow of the British government, nor the country of Northern Ireland. Who said you did? Not I. Those are not our problems. Oh, and if America deserves punishment from terrorists, what pray tell does England deserves? I mean they only fucked up, South Africa, India, Egypt, the Middle East, central and Eastern Africa, France (for a long while), Australia, Ireland, Scotland, shall we go on? You are getting silly now, Great Britain made all those countries profitable, lawful and respectful, as we did in Americia, they all fucked up themselves when they got independence, same as your country did. No No what? You also seem to forget, my friend, how much we help other countries Only because you get something from them, its called blackmail, except Israel where you only want to keep the war going on so you can make money from arms and keep the Arab world from being united, because if the Arabs and Muslim worlds do unite they would prove a bigger threat to you than the communist ever did. And no, we rate nowhere near a single one of those countries. Dont matter what you rate yourselves, the facts say you are one of the worst countries when it comes to genocide, the treatment of POWs, and the murdering of civilians, you see I know more about you history than you do, and what I dont know I find out, try it someday will you and you might see where i'm comming from. Your'e welcome. !!! Iraq, Vietnam (for the most part), Cambodia, Laos, and Korea were all because of wars. So what? You still killed them, your military knew they were killing civilians as did your government, stop trying to defend the indefencible. The United States Government nor military ever adopted a doctrine of murdering civilians, nor did it advocate or encourage it. Are you on drugs or you have been brainwashed, go read your history, your ignorance is abundant in this matter. Some soldiers in Vietnam took the time to do it, but the US Military did not want that sort of thing. The Indians I've already said I agree with but you clearly didn't read any of what I wrote. I said Middle Eastern countries. The only one you named was Iraq, of which almost every civilian we've killed is accidental/collateral damage. It happens in war does it not? I did read all your post, the other countries were an extra addition to make my point. When you bomb, rocket, or shoot in to civilian areas you will kill civilians, this is not accidental you do it on purpose, dont start crying when the innocent get hurt, its your fault not theirs. Iraq is not the only Middle Eastern country where US armaments have killed innocent civilians, try Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan and dont forget about the arming of Saddam to attack Iran whick killed over a million people. The more we go on the worse it gets for you and the I dont want to do that so please go off and read some history books and educate yourself. You mean "intelligent" Yes, smart arse, have you corrected all your own spelling mistakes Mr Perfect? Jesus said to turn the other cheek. That's one of the foundations of modern Christianity. You would know that if you understood history. Please dont question my knowledge of history as i would leave you at the starting gate, and if your country is supposed to be a Christian one why dont you turn the other cheek first and show the world just what a good, clever little Christian country you are instead of the Satanic one that you are showing us now. We didn't do fund the IRA. But I know that you did, and so do all of the people here in Great Britain. If not why did the IRA get caught with so much American munitions, Armalite Rifles, HE, bullets, all came from your country with money collected by your people with the consent of your government, fact, look it up bud. You're just delusional and looking for another way to make America look bad and save face for all the atrocities your country has committed. You make us seem like Pee Wee Herman. Americia does not need my help to look bad, you do that all by yourself, and you are very good at it too, the best in fact. My country has commited great atrocities, I have no need to try and cover them up as you do with your countries atrocities, but you have still to learn that your ways are not right and only blood and suffering will teach you that, but one day you will learn, just like the Pharaohs did in the Bible. I do not understand the mindsets of Muslims? I'm surrounded by them... I'm glad you agree with me there. If what your saying is that Muslims/Middle Easterners will never allow peace, perhaps you should learn soem history. Please, in your best English now, enlighten me. The Middle East used to be the most prosperous/peaceful(never) part of the world at one point, rivalling China in technology and science of the time. Untill the Muslims came along and started the Jihads. Quit hate-mongering and look for solutions. I am not a "hate-mongering" I only present the facts, but you can't handle the facts can you Mr Drummer? Regards, Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepyep Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Guys, youre missing the point. No one here is comparing the Founding Fathers with Bin Laden literally. But if you look at what they're trying to do, similarities can be found. Bin Laden "fights" to avenge his people and bring down an empire that he feels has wronged him. The Founding Fathers did the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Ah, so you are an America-hater. We can add that to the laundry list of other things. Furthermore, I'm even more glad that everyone here now knows how you stereotype people from certain countries. It tickles me that it's on full display. By all means, do continue. What other lies and half-truths do you want to tell about Americans? I'm anxious to read them! Hi 'Electrophile' You should know better that to call me an "American Hater" its the governments that I hate not the people, and dont try to start a witch hunt on me, it will backfire on you if you do, know what i mean. Maybe you dont see the world as it really is, I do, and I have no worries about saying so. Stereotypeing of people is a fact, it does not mean every person from that race, country or creed acts in that way, just a very large majority of them. If I have offended anyone with my words on here I appologise to them, it was not a personal attack, as your posts about me seem to be. There are no half truths or lies told by me about Americia or the American people, they are all facts that you or anyone else can look up on the internet as I have done. If you cant be civil I would like you to keep from posting either directly or indirectly to me or about me as I dont find your comments interesting or helpful, thank you for your time. Regards, Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Dude, you gotta learn the quoting system, this is killing me No conspiracy, you know I only talk about the facts, you can easily check them, they are all on the internet.Partly my point. You have no proof. I admit that some misguided Americans did send them money, but I know for a fact most Americans care nothing for them and would never pay them. That goes for the USA government. It gains nothing for aiding them. Yes you are, the CIA is the largest terrorist organisation in the world, Fact.Fact huh? Then you can prove it I suppose? The IRA was supported by the US Government from the 60s to the 90s, over 30 years, fact.Very, very incorrect. Who said you did? Not I.And therein lies my point. We have nothing to gain from giving them money, except maybe a fall of Northern Ireland, thats it. If we don't support that, we have nothing to gain. Thus, we didn't do it. You're incorrect. You have no proof You are getting silly now, Great Britain made all those countries profitable, lawful and respectful, as we did in Americia, they all fucked up themselves when they got independence, same as your country did.Hah, ignorance. You made them profitable FOR YOU. Not the natives. The Indian people were shit on with you, that's why they wanted to revolt. Because of you Apartheid fucked up all of South Africa for many years after you gave up there. You had slavery for hundreds of years before we even existed. No, you never helped any of them. They had to do that themselves. That's why we wanted independence dude! Your country crapped on us and said Beg! No what?Even Finland has skeletons. Only because you get something from them, its called blackmail, except Israel where you only want to keep the war going on so you can make money from arms and keep the Arab world from being united, because if the Arabs and Muslim worlds do unite they would prove a bigger threat to you than the communist ever did. Like hell we do. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Unicef, The Peace Corps, the list goes on and on. We give a ton and take nothing. We get nothing from Sudan. We give what we can. Because of AMERICA, not England, diseases are being fought all around the world, fresh water is being distributed to areas that would otherwise never have it. Give me a berak, we blackmail them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Dont matter what you rate yourselves, the facts say you are one of the worst countries when it comes to genocide, the treatment of POWs, and the murdering of civilians, you see I know more about you history than you do, and what I dont know I find out, try it someday will you and you might see where i'm comming from.Where did we go about murdering civilians for no reason? Where did we purposefully go out of our way to kill civilians that posed no threat? So what? You still killed them, your military knew they were killing civilians as did your government, stop trying to defend the indefencible.That happens in war. How many did you kill in World War I and II? Are you on drugs or you have been brainwashed, go read your history, your ignorance is abundant in this matter.I have. How about you point out to me one line of any AMerican legislation or Army doctrine that states we are to shoot innocent civilians on sight or something? I did read all your post, the other countries were an extra addition to make my point. When you bomb, rocket, or shoot in to civilian areas you will kill civilians, this is not accidental you do it on purpose, dont start crying when the innocent get hurt, its your fault not theirs. Iraq is not the only Middle Eastern country where US armaments have killed innocent civilians, try Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan and dont forget about the arming of Saddam to attack Iran whick killed over a million people.Bull shit it's purposeful. Our enemies nowadays and in Nam all hid/hide in civilian quarters. I'm not justifying a Lieutenant killing a Viet baby, but we killed who we killed to make 100% sure that our guys and our South Viet boys were safe from harm and that we wouldn't be killed. It's the nature of war. You look out for yourself and your allies. We did not purposefully aim for civilians that were clearly not threats (usually). The more we go on the worse it gets for you and the I dont want to do that so please go off and read some history books and educate yourself.You're one to talk my friend. You've shit on every inch of this world at one point. Remember the Opium Wars? Those were sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 You mean "intelligent" Yes, smart arse, have you corrected all your own spelling mistakes Mr Perfect?*sigh* Missed the point Please dont question my knowledge of history as i would leave you at the starting gate, and if your country is supposed to be a Christian one why dont you turn the other cheek first and show the world just what a good, clever little Christian country you are instead of the Satanic one that you are showing us now.Like hell you would Our government is secular. We don't follow the Bible (usually) on political matters. You would know that if you've read anythign about American politics. But I know that you did, and so do all of the people here in Great Britain. If not why did the IRA get caught with so much American munitions, Armalite Rifles, HE, bullets, all came from your country with money collected by your people with the consent of your government, fact, look it up bud.All the Germans knew that the Jews were behidn their loss after World War I. Doesn't make them right. Americia does not need my help to look bad, you do that all by yourself, and you are very good at it too, the best in fact. My country has commited great atrocities, I have no need to try and cover them up as you do with your countries atrocities, but you have still to learn that your ways are not right and only blood and suffering will teach you that, but one day you will learn, just like the Pharaohs did in the Bible.I don't cover anything up. I admit to our mistakes, but point out when people go too far, as you are. Untill the Muslims came along and started the Jihads.Not necessarily. Christians and Muslims...both parties are to blame for those times in history. I am not a "hate-mongering" I only present the facts, but you can't handle the facts can you Mr Drummer? Regards, DannyYou have yet to present a single fact. All you've done is say that my government authorizes the murder of innocent civilians by targetting them for absolutely no reason...and you've done all this with no proof/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Guys, youre missing the point. No one here is comparing the Founding Fathers with Bin Laden literally. But if you look at what they're trying to do, similarities can be found. Bin Laden "fights" to avenge his people and bring down an empire that he feels has wronged him. The Founding Fathers did the same thing. Yes, Kevin I did say that. I said Bin Laden is fighting America because he feels America has wronged his country/religion/whatever. I, in no way, agree with him. Not in any sense. But that is exactly how he feels. Do you deny that? Please, explain. And I'm not comparing Washing or Adams to Al Qaeda in any way. I'm saying that, overall, their actions have similarities in the sense that both are fighting a power that they want to overthrow for their own personal reasons. Once again, do you disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pip Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 hehe yeah man! Gandhi! hehe sorry! but I would like anyone to dispute that he isn't a smart old dead dude... hehe seriously though. How embarrassing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Well technically he's not old anymore...he's just dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pip Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Well technically he's not old anymore...he's just dead true... but what's left is old... how wrong is it to be talking this way about Gandhi!? anyway this thread has moved beyond the point I was trying to make... I can't remember the point I was trying to make... whatever the point was... I agree totally and whole heatedly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypeO Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 You also seem to forget, my friend, how much we help other countries Only because you get something from them, its called blackmail Wow. Strong tunnel vision. Sorry dude, but love us or hate us, the US is hands-down the largest provider of international aid than any other country period. Not to mention we've done more to help the AIDS epidemic in Africa than anyone else, we still provide aid even when we're disparaged for our political stances and asked NOT to help (Remember Indonesia? That big tsunami thing?) Blackmail? Forum-member, PLEASE. Tell me what we get in return for money we send to Iran? Indonesia? Or how are they blackmailed? Your world-view is showing, dude, and it's as slanted as all the other anti-US drivel out there. We're not perfect, but in general, we do the right thing by providing aid/assistance and in some cases just flat-out free money more than any other country. except Israel where you only want to keep the war going on so you can make money from arms and keep the Arab world from being united, because if the Arabs and Muslim worlds do unite they would prove a bigger threat to you than the communist ever did. Wow. grossly over-cynical much? We support Israel, the ones seeking peace, remember? As opposed to Hamas (and the other countries who support and fund/supply weapons to them), who seek to eliminate Israel from the face of the earth by their own admission. Quit drinking all that United States muh man - it may taste good going down, but the aftertaste is a beast, and makes yer breath stink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I thought it was the influx of German immigrants that coincided with the Industrial Revolution in the United States, not the British. And speaking of Guantanamo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Only because you get something from them, its called blackmail, except Israel where you only want to keep the war going on so you can make money from arms and keep the Arab world from being united, because if the Arabs and Muslim worlds do unite they would prove a bigger threat to you than the communist ever did. I don't understand that point at all, Isreal is the single largest unifing factor for all the arab states. As much retoric is were hear about "destroying" it from them I'm sure most of the policial leaders in the region are very pleased they've got such a scapegoat to distract public attension from there own atrocities and wanton coruption. Besides what was achieved afterwards I'd say thats the key difference between the US revolutionarys and many terrorists, a group like Hamas will never make peace because it needs war to maintain polical power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepyep Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Hi all, The armies fought with very strick and rigid rules of engagement, very "gentlemanly", if you will. Civilians were not involved in the fighting. Excuse me? The only army was British,the Continental Army was all civilian at this time.Look up Lexington&Concord,these were farmers. The British soldiers did wreck havoc on the country folk in the south, though. The movie "The Patriot" has an acurate description of some of their acts, as it was a true depiction of what happened. Except the church burning which is BS. KB (off,way off topic!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepyep Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Hi all, Kevin, I'm aware of all that you just posted. If you noticed, I said that "He feels" not me. I hate him and everything he stands for just as you do. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate to show you what we meant. Brother,just for the record:he does not feel a damn thing.And he does not give a hoot about anyone who does not kneel before him and his version 2.0.2 of God. Why play devil's advocate,when have enough of them?And who is we,BTW? I don't care. You burp every post. Your respect for me matters little, no offense. You 'care' enough to post.Eh? I burp a lot,so? Well,if it means anything to the I-don't give a s*** generation,I respect you. Whatever dude, you misunderstood the whole post, as well as the point. Well dude,I got the point.Equating the 'goals' of the Founding Fathers,warts and all,to that POS,...got it,.... KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Hi all, Brother,just for the record:he does not feel a damn thing.And he does not give a hoot about anyone who does not kneel before him and his version 2.0.2 of God. Why play devil's advocate,when have enough of them?And who is we,BTW?We is me, bigstick, and Liz, who all said basically the same thing. I realize Osama is a dick, but he has goals and motives for doing what he does. As did the Founding Fathers. You 'care' enough to post.Eh? I burp a lot,so? Well,if it means anything to the I-don't give a s*** generation,I respect you.I give more of a shit than probably 95% of my generation, which is why I'm more political so many. My generation has its diamonds, but the rough is far too big. his coun try may be screwed until we get our act together. Well dude,I got the point.Equating the 'goals' of the Founding Fathers,warts and all,to that POS,...got it,.... Sort of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigstickbonzo Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 There are no half truths or lies told by me about Americia or the American people, they are all facts that you or anyone else can look up on the internet as I have done. Sweet Jesus, it must really hurt shooting yourself in the mouth. What do you do for an encore? Now back to common sense.. Of course the Founding Fathers weren't terrorists. However, much of Washington's forces were militia and they used guerilla warefare against the British. In regards to the movie, "The Patriot," Mel Gibson's whole brood were acting in manners that at the time would have been classified as "terrorist." The fact that they didn't fight on the battle fields was enough for the British to label them as such. Would what they did be revelant to classify as "terrorist" in today's world? I think so..with shades of grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Road to Guantanamo : Trailer : Green-Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepyep Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Hi all, We is me, bigstick, and Liz, who all said basically the same thing. I realize Osama is a dick, but he has goals and motives for doing what he does. As did the Founding Fathers. I see.Forming a rock group anytime soon? Osama is beyond 'dick' status.S***! Do you know what his goals and motives are?They = the Founding Fathers !?!? Are you f***ing kidding me? His goals?Shut down this site,bow to Mecca 5 times a day.Shut off free speech.Women your rights are gone.Got it? Now let's talk about the founding of this country(yep BIGDAN,your next.) Why did British citizens want to take part in a war with the home country?Got an answer.Now equate that to that POS? KB I give more of a shit than probably 95% of my generation, which is why I'm more political so many. My generation has its diamonds, but the rough is far too big. his coun try may be screwed until we get our act together. Sort of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Do you know what his goals and motives are?They = the Founding Fathers !?!? Are you f***ing kidding me? His goals?Shut down this site,bow to Mecca 5 times a day.Shut off free speech.Women your rights are gone.Got it?You are taking it far too literally. I'm talking about the overall message. Fighting for beliefs. His beliefs and the Founding Fathers are entirely different. One is evil (Al-Qaeda) and one is noble (FF). But be that as it may, they both fight/faught for beliefs. All I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepyep Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Hi all, (BIGDAN)Only because you get something from them, its called blackmail, except Israel where you only want to keep the war going on so you can make money from arms and keep the Arab world from being united, because if the Arabs and Muslim worlds do unite they would prove a bigger threat to you than the communist ever did. Blackmail. So riddle me this;where are the rockets coming from from Gaza and Lebanon?Who pays for them? Where in the Middle East governments does anyone one but Arabs or Muslims hold political office?Know that answer? The Arab 'world' tried it,many times.What happened Danny boy?Six wars and the same conclusion. Ignore list,keeps growing!KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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