Hotplant Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 It's the same ol story, same ol song and dance my friend..... Only on zep.com.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Sometimes Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Sorry for assuming you were referring to Jimmy...in a Led Zeppelin forum.....and a thread that is revolving around him...I guess I should have clarified...or you could have. The thread is about Patricia Ecker pics, and then it was about Charlotte. And I did clarify repeatedly that I was talking about celebrities in general. Second, I'm stating my opinions so it's difficult for me to back that up with fact when I don't know the man personally. I take it you know all of these celebs then because with you being keen on using facts, I'm expecting you to back up your "celebs crave fame and need it" claim with cold hard facts... We're back to Jimmy? LZ and the Yardbirds rise to the top and Jimmy's hard work to get them there are all well documented. Which is why I wasn't discussing that. I also never stated that all celebrities crave fame for fame's sake. But even if you are genuinely seeking recognition for your art, achieving fame is part of it. It's not going to just come to you. You do have to chase it in some manner. Many celebrities have written books or talked about this in interviews. The "I was just playing on the street corner one day and this agent came up to me..." scenario is very rare. (please don't throw your psychology stuff at me, that has nothing to do with your sweeping generalisations about famous people). The only sweeping generalization was your interpretation of what I was saying. The psychological study was about a different issue altogether. And I wasn't even talking to you. ????? No, that wasn't what you were doing--I'm afraid that's simply disingenuous. That's a pretty blatant example of speculation and presumption about my motives. Especially in a thread that derailed because of speculation and presumption. I guess it's okay, though, as long as it's not done to someone who dated Jimmy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knebby Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 The thread is about Patricia Ecker pics, and then it was about Charlotte. And of course, they have their place in a Zeppelin forum without any reference to Jimmy. We're back to Jimmy? LZ and the Yardbirds rise to the top and Jimmy's hard work to get them there are all well documented. Which is why I wasn't discussing that. I also never stated that all celebrities crave fame for fame's sake. But even if you are genuinely seeking recognition for your art, achieving fame is part of it. It's not going to just come to you. You do have to chase it in some manner. Many celebrities have written books or talked about this in interviews. The "I was just playing on the street corner one day and this agent came up to me..." scenario is very rare. Which still does absolutely nothing to suggest that all celebs are chasing FAME. The only sweeping generalization was your interpretation of what I was saying. The psychological study was about a different issue altogether. And I wasn't even talking to you. ????? That's a pretty blatant example of speculation and presumption about my motives. Especially in a thread that derailed because of speculation and presumption. I guess it's okay, though, as long as it's not done to someone who dated Jimmy? Oh get over it Sunchild. All the rest of it get what was being said, but as usual, you want to pick over it point-by-point . And guess what - you're STILL wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanetPage Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 ...perhaps this should be posted in General Forum... in Beautiful Women thread...then they can discuss without reference to the Obvious..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aligula Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Right, If we were to clear this thread and just leave my posts and yours side by side, it would become blatant to anyone reading it that your replies almost always miss the point, don't address the points I've made or answer any questions I've asked. You just avoid them and carry on repeating yourself and them blame me/us for misunderstanding you. So let's clarify. I'll start this off by quoting what I originally had a problem with so that this post is crystal. I also have to admit that when celebrities whine about the price of fame and all that jazz, it's pretty annoying. Seriously, I'm so sorry you have billions of dollars, get to do what you love every day of your life, and people love and admire you so much they are interested in your every move. :::world's tiniest violin player::: Jimmy, to my knowledge, seems to have accepted this as part of the deal. I'm sure it gets annoying and invasive. I wouldn't be able to put up with it, but then I didn't choose to bust my ass trying to become famous. I would never choose to pursue becoming a celebrity. Celebrities WANT fame. They want everyone to know who they are. They pursue it relentlessly. They they they they they. This is a sweeping generalisation. There it is for all to read. You make no attempt to say "Some celebs". You say "They". You generalise. My original point was that there is a difference between someone who chases fame (for example...Jade Goody) and someone who becomes famous as a result of their talents and the success they have achieved (for example...Jimmy Page). Now, everytime you've come back to me on this, you have said things like "Yeah, I'm sure it was easy" and "it takes alot of ambition etc to make it". Why have you done this? Where in this thread is there an example of ANYONE disputing the effort, drive, ambition and sacrifice that a person has to have in order to become successful. The answer is there isn't. So why are you talking about it? It's a given. Once again, the simple thing we are disputing is that ALL famous people simply chase fame. THAT IS IT. NOTHING ELSE. So I'll ask you, DO YOU AGREE THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN ARTIST WHO IS SUCCESSFUL/TALENTED AND THEREFORE FAMOUS AS A RESULT OF THAT....AND A CELEBRITY WHO SIMPLY AIMED FOR FAME, CRAVED FAME AND WANTED EVERYONE TO KNOW WHO THEY WERE? If the answer is yes, then let's leave it at that. That is all I was disputing. You seem to suggest every famous person is the same in the quotes at the top of this post. That is why I disagreed with you. Oh, and as a side note. You did not use any facts at all. It was all conjecture and opinion. So why did you attack me for doing the same? Just answer instead of dodging the question please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 That's a pretty blatant example of speculation and presumption about my motives. Especially in a thread that derailed because of speculation and presumption. I guess it's okay, though, as long as it's not done to someone who dated Jimmy? I've taken no part in the discussion of women who dated Jimmy, because my interest in him is as a guitarist and I could give a rat's ass about his love life, frankly. However. You cited some study that said people who said they believed X were lying, right after the previous poster had said she believed X. No speculation or presumption needed. End of. (If you want an "intellectual debate," expect rebuttals. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Sometimes Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 They they they they they. This is a sweeping generalisation. There it is for all to read. You make no attempt to say "Some celebs". You say "They". You generalise. I do think that most celebrities pursue fame at some level, whether they love what they do, are genuinely talented, or not. This doesn't mean they are all horrible people. But that is a choice they make, and then must accept the consequences (which includes invasion of privacy) just as all of us must. And really, not too many of them whine about it. Their fans do it for them, which I find hypocritical since we all gossip and speculate about other people at one time or another in our lives. That was the context of this quote. You and I were not even discussing anything at that point. Where in this thread is there an example of ANYONE disputing the effort, drive, ambition and sacrifice that a person has to have in order to become successful. The answer is there isn't. So why are you talking about it? It's a given. Because what is the purpose of all of that drive, ambition and hard work? It is so a lot of people will find out about you and what you do. And if a lot of people know who you are and what you do...what is that? FAME! lol I mean...really this is isn't rocket science. DO YOU AGREE THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN ARTIST WHO IS SUCCESSFUL/TALENTED AND THEREFORE FAMOUS AS A RESULT OF THAT....AND A CELEBRITY WHO SIMPLY AIMED FOR FAME, CRAVED FAME AND WANTED EVERYONE TO KNOW WHO THEY WERE? Yes, and I do believe I already covered this when you brought up Jimmy Page. However, there is an element of wanting one's work to be "known" in MOST artists, and I guess that's where we have a difference of opinion. It doesn't mean love of the art form wasn't the springboard, or that it doesn't continue to be a driving force. The facts from which I form my opinion are in hundreds of books written by celebrities about how they became so - hardly conjecture, unless they're all lying. However. You cited some study that said people who said they believed X were lying, right after the previous poster had said she believed X. No speculation or presumption needed. End of. (If you want an "intellectual debate," expect rebuttals. ) If you're going to form a rebuttal, it would have been a good idea to actually read the study. I was calling all of us a liar when it comes to that particular subject. It is human behavior, we all do it, have done it or will do it, and are ashamed of it, but have no problem hypocritically condemning others for it. But, hey if you've conducted a study that disproves this, feel free to post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 If you're going to form a rebuttal, it would have been a good idea to actually read the study. I was calling all of us a liar when it comes to that particular subject. It is human behavior, we all do it, have done it or will do it, and are ashamed of it, but have no problem hypocritically condemning others for it. But, hey if you've conducted a study that disproves this, feel free to post it. No need to read the study. You may have been making the blanket assertion that all who believe X are liars, but you made it right after the previous poster had said that X was her viewpoint, so you were de facto calling that person in particular a liar. Makes no difference what the specifics of the study were. Howver, arguing with you is as tiresome and pointless as always, so that's it from me on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aligula Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Because what is the purpose of all of that drive, ambition and hard work? It is so a lot of people will find out about you and what you do. I think this is where we disagree so we'll leave it at that, but thanks for addressing my post clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Because what is the purpose of all of that drive, ambition and hard work? It's because you love what you do and you have a passion for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aligula Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 It's because you love what you do and you have a passion for it. I very much agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutionBlues Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Oh my, the more things change... I wasn't suggesting you would get banned, and if you did, it would have nothing to do with me. Oh get over it Sunchild. All the rest of it get what was being said, but as usual, you want to pick over it point-by-point . And guess what - you're STILL wrong. Ah, Knebby. Still with the blazing green sun and the fuck-off-and-die avatar. Talk about, get over it already. Sunchild took her lumps from you and your buddies and was banned from this place months ago, lots of us watched it happen. There's more than one way to do it, it's not like you ring up Sam and instruct him. Or maybe you do, who knows? Anyway, let's watch and see how long the intelligent Miss Charlotte lasts, shall we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Probably about as long as she plays it intelligently. There's more than one way to return from exile, too, as we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myledzep Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Probably about as long as she plays it intelligently. And from what I see, it won't be too long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knebby Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Oh my, the more things change... Ah, Knebby. Still with the blazing green sun and the fuck-off-and-die avatar. Talk about, get over it already. Sunchild took her lumps from you and your buddies and was banned from this place months ago, lots of us watched it happen. There's more than one way to do it, it's not like you ring up Sam and instruct him. Or maybe you do, who knows? Anyway, let's watch and see how long the intelligent Miss Charlotte lasts, shall we? Ah, Absolution Blues. Who has...errr.........three posts and yet claims such familiarity with me. And then seems to think we shouldn't expect banned members to return. If I had the power to get members here banned, I would have done it one hell of a lot sooner with Sunchild. A quick look at her last posts will show anyone she was banned after a disgraceful blanket attack on all Robert Plant fans - seems reasonable to exercise the need to ban those kind of contributors on a Led Zeppelin forum. But you're right - I should get Sam's number - for when the BatSignal is out of action, obviously. BTW - it isn't a "blazing green sun". It's a Green Man. SunChild was always overly-concerned with my av and sig too. Funny that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackandGold Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Well this was an interesting and somewhat confusing thread. I clicked on it to find out who the heck Patricia Ecker was. I guess I fall on the "not so interested in their personal life side". All I know about their families was pretty much what we were shown in "The Song Remains the Same". I looked at the pictures, she is very pretty (other than the godawful 80's hair) and the little boy is cute. I suppose he is James Jr? How the thread evolved into discussion of the cult of fame and groupies is beyond me. Is it possible to work in a little Robert bashing? Then it will be pretty much like all the other threads on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutionBlues Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Well this was an interesting and somewhat confusing thread. I clicked on it to find out who the heck Patricia Ecker was. I guess I fall on the "not so interested in their personal life side". All I know about their families was pretty much what we were shown in "The Song Remains the Same". I looked at the pictures, she is very pretty (other than the godawful 80's hair) and the little boy is cute. I suppose he is James Jr? How the thread evolved into discussion of the cult of fame and groupies is beyond me. Is it possible to work in a little Robert bashing? Then it will be pretty much like all the other threads on the board. It devolved the same way they all do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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