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arrius

Autograph Forgeries

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Greetings to all Led Zeppelin Fans and forum members. I am seeking some information that most likely can only be found from a die hard long time Zeppelin Fan. I recently purchased a supposed signed Zepplin Guitar. It is a black Fender Strat copy and includes silver paint pen signatures for Robert Plant ,Jimmy Page and John Paul as well as the sign for Jimmy Page (Zoso) in the same silver pen. The Guitar came with authenticity doumentation done by a place called, "Hollywood Collection". The Guitar also had a secondary appraisal doucment from a place called , "Legends Gallery". Problem is I was unable to contact or confirm the companies are legit or if they even exist ? Given this I went ahead and sent the Guitar to Michael Frost at PAAS authentication services. In the end PAAS ruled that the signatures were forgeries and not authentica. The documents with the Guitar stated it was hand signed by the three ,in New York on 8/25/2006 . We also tried to place Robert ,Jimmy and John in New York on 8/25/2006 but could find no record of them having been there togather on that date . I can easily secure a refund on the Guitar but would hate to do so if it were authentic. Would anyone here on the board be able to confirm that the guys were all in New York and signing on 8/25/2006. If so where in New York was the meet and greet or event?

Many Many Thanks

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Now that it seems like the autographs are forgeries, hopefully you'll have no trouble getting your money back. Although, they say they will refund your money, it is one thing to say they will do it and another to actually do it. Good luck!

How much did you pay for it?

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Without a photo, it's hard to say. Summer of 2006 Robert was overseas playing a lot of festival gigs but I can't remember offhand what August dates if any, there were.

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Would anyone here on the board be able to confirm that the guys were all in New York and signing on 8/25/2006.

I can confirm I've never seen any evidence whatsoever to suggest any of the three were in New York that month. Bear in mind 8/25/06 is just a few weeks after Jimmy

had cancelled an appearance with Roy Harper and a couple months after he failed to

perform with Robert in Montreux on account of a knee injury.

Seems to me had any of them (certainly all of them) gone to NYC that month I'd have known one way or the other. Robert was in NYC for a few days in June but irrelevant

given the date provided.

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Thanks to all for the replies so far. I will continue to check in for coming replies . The following is a link to a picture of the Guitar. As mentioned ,my authentication expert feels that it is not only a forgery but a very poor one. To be honest I am not familiar with authentic Zeppelin autographs so I would not know but know you all most likely do. I collect these things for my personal music room in my home. Most of my collection is in Jazz , John Coltrane, Stan Getz and Grover Washington Jr. (Prior to his death) . I have alway had some things signed by Ozzy and Randy Rhodes (Prior to his death as well) in the early years. I have a few of VanHalens things as well including a couple of Eds personal stash Guitar picks that usually do not make it into public hands. All these things I know to be authentic and appreciate their being in my music room ,it makes the place feel alive. As for this Zepplin Guitar it would also be a wonderful life long addition to my collection but not if it is a forgery. I recently came across a Zeppelin signed strat known to be authentic but the hefty price tag of 15 grand as in $15,000 is just a bit much . This is exactly why many of the groups are getting peeved and refusing to sign Guitars and I applaud them for it. Years ago fans sought to have Guitars signed by their favorite groups to have as a forever special item. These day though the Groups know the game all to well. Autograph sellers put 10 maybe more people in the line to grab as many signed items as possible only to list them on ebay the very next day. The musicians are getting peeved at this little game and are refusing to sign Guitars and again , who can blame them. Sadly in many cases this same game prevents many true fans from ever reaching to front of a signing line.

As for my collection it will remain with me trough this lifetime and will then be donated to prechosen schools as such item deserve better than Ebay. As for this Zeppeling Guitar it would be a very welcomed addition to my collection but only if authentic. Item like this when authentic are meant to be played rather than placed in a display to go through life untouched. Let me know what you all think about the picture. Is it truly a very poor forgery as PAAS says it is? If so , no biggy as I will get a refund via the online payment service but would hate giving up an authentic Zeppelin signed Guitar. The key question is , where was Robert ,Jimmy and John on 8/25/2006. This is also the same year and month that MTV held their Music awards in NY and later in the month celebrated their 25th Anniversary also in NY. Neither of these events was on the 25th but was shortly before and after.

Picture of the Guitar :

zeppelin1ww8.jpg

Many Thanks

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Doesn't really look like Robert's signature to me :(

Have to say I agree--everybody's signature changes over time, but I haven't seen any of his that look like that. Doesn't look like Jimmy's either. I'm not familiar with JPJ's.

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Have to say I agree--everybody's signature changes over time, but I haven't seen any of his that look like that. Doesn't look like Jimmy's either. I'm not familiar with JPJ's.

I'm not that familiar with JPJs either but really none of them look that authentic.

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I have Robert Jimmys and John paul Jones autographs and got them personally off them, and sadly the R in Roberts looks the same the rest of the autograph and the others look like very poor copys to me. sorry. :(:angry:

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I got this for Christmas.. just to compare. From top left, clockwise..Robert's, Jason's, Jimmy's, JPJ's

027-1.jpg

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I got my LP signed personally by John Paul Jones at Manson Guitar Show last October. This is also a rare original press that was withdrawn because of the mis spelt track "Living Loving Whack". Ive seen copies of these go on Ebay for over £100, and not signed either.

Ive posted this image anyway of the signature just so i could help you out. :)

DSC05469.jpg

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I got my LP signed personally by John Paul Jones at Manson Guitar Show last October. This is also a rare original press that was withdrawn because of the mis spelt track "Living Loving Whack". Ive seen copies of these go on Ebay for over £100, and not signed either.

Ive posted this image anyway of the signature just so i could help you out. :)

DSC05469.jpg

Now that's a nice souvenir. :D Sadly I think the guitar autographs are fake as well.

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The guitar signatures look fake to me and again, so far as I know none of the three were in New York that month. Had any of them attended the MTV event it would have been covered by the New York media.

Edited by SteveAJones

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Again many thanks to all for confirming my beliefs. My main concern was in not being able to place the guys in New York when the documents state they were. This makes it easy to conclude that if they were not there at that time then the signatures are fake for sure <_< Again though this being the case and your help in confirming will make it all that much easier in taking the refund from the online payment service and continuing the search for an authentic Zeppelin signed stratocaster. I must admit though I am not discouraged as I knew from the beginning that at $800 it was priced much to low. Given I was fully protected though as far as a refund I figured I would grab it ,have my own authentication done and if it turned out bogus I would return it . Unfortunately the seller likely had no idea it was bogus. He bought out the inventory of a Kansas city music store whose owner either became ill or passed away. This Guitar and its documents were part of that inventory and the seller simply assumed all was authentic. When it comes to autographs though many times ,nothing is as it seems. Their is another company called Royal Arts or something like that. They also currenty have was they call an authentic signed strat by all the Zeppelin members. Sweet Guitar ,Natural wood signed in black sharpie including a drawing of the latern toting cloaked one . The Guitar can be had for $2000 and a buy I would jump on in a second . the problem is that I done a quick research on that company only to find that they have done many bogus deals and their forgers are so good that they have even fooled some of the Hard Rock Cafes for some big dollars. A real shame ?I will continue to watch for replies and many thanks again to all.

A nice little story to end with. Many years ago when I was in High School late 70's early 80's a friend of mine was enrolled in a private 7th Day Adventist High School. At the time he was 17 and a very talented Guitarist. Over the early years he had honed his skills well and could play Stairway To Heaven note for note with ease. So one early morning he takes his fended and amp to school and decides to check out the bathroom accoustics. He plugs in, sets up and starts playing with a few buddies edging him on . He was okay until he started hitting the ripping highs . It was at that time that the principle as I was told ran down the Hallway ,into the bathroom, took Donny Fender and amp in tow to the office. In the end it earned him a 3 day rest period at home :D They advised him that of their was a next time , his strat would be held until the school years end. This warning was enough to help him decide that the Boys Room accoustics were'nt so great after all. Unfortunately I was in public school and missed that show but my many friends at the private school fed me the story detail by detail before Donny ever had a chance to tell me. He stills plays and is still dangerous on the fret board.

Take Care,

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Apologies ,Forum. In my last post I was incorrect in stating the suspect place was a Royal Arts. The company is actually autographsamerica.com that is said to have taken the Hard Rock Cafes for some bucks on forgeries.

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Thank goodness you are protected and will get a full refund. I know someone who bought a guitar from someone on ebay (not with any autographs) and it turned out to be a scam and she was out several hundred dollars.

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The real giveaway is the "Zoso". Jimmy, as far as I'm aware, has never signed that symbol for anyone, and the one on this guitar looks like it was done by a 2 year old anyway.

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I am not an expert in graphoanalysis, but I've studied it for a while. As I have a few sample of Jimmy Page signatures, taken on this forum, I am familiar with some of his principal features. Although as some said, the signature over time varies, some features remain constant. I have chosen to take only one, to me it is one of the strongest, that can easily be seen on his signature, and I have illustrated it with some samples taken over time, from the Yardbirds to last summer (the red drawing for the Led Zep memorabilia at Knebworth).

When J. Page signs, he finishes the last letter of his first and last name with a stroke that is:very strong till the end, clearly defined, and straight downward . This feature remains constant from the Yardbirds till today. And if you look closely, it always follows very well the other downward strokes of the other letters of his signature. You cannot miss it, it is a clear statement of his strong tireless determination and affirmation.

The signature on the guitar is, to my opinion a poor imitation: notice the weak strokes ending the first and the last name, with no control of the straight line and no direction to it (the strong statement of the determination is a stroke that goes straight down).

analysis1.jpg

analysis2.jpg

analysis3.jpg

analysis4.jpg

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I'm gonna have to disagree. Whilst the whole story sounds wrong, and I believe they probably are fakes, the sigs look ok to me - I have seen both Robert's and Jimmy's look like that several times before.

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it's really hard to say. chances are it's a fake. I've got a signed lp of houses of the holy with all 4 original members. it came from England with a certificate of authenticity and the autographs look legit . check high end autograph sites on the web and compare your autographs to others.

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For what it's worth, if this will help, here's an autograph Jimmy signed for me in 2004. Hard to tell from your picture, but it seems to be fairly similar. I hope you're able to confirm it to be authentic, that would be a great peice to have. But the hand drawn 'ZOSO' symbol does seem odd to me, too. Was there any indication of why the guitar was signed? I would imagine it would have been for some type of auction or charity donation.

011404_00_autogr_4w2cln.jpg

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