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Dzldoc

Stimulus=Porkulus

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The stock market is really doing GREAT since Obama signed that porkulus, I mean stimulus bill.

Guess that was what we really needed to get the economy rolling.

NOT!!!!

There goes another several billion dollars down the drain.

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Until the banks start loaning money again, the US economy won't recover. We can spend a googleplex worth of cash, but it will mean bubkus in the end without the banks giving loans. The Feds are doing everything but tackling the real issue, the banks.

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AP Washington:

"The 20 largest banks that received government rescue funds slightly reduced lending to consumers and businesses in the last three months of 2008, the government said Tuesday.

The Treasury Department said the banks reduced their mortgage and business loans by a median of 1 percent each.

A quarterly survey by the Federal Reserve earlier this month found that nearly 60 percent of banks said they had tightened lending standards on credit card and other consumer loans ithe the previous three months."

That stimulus money went to good use, didn't it.

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I've recieved notices from all of my credit cards that the interests are going up :o

FU! I opted out! :angry:

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Until the banks start loaning money again, the US economy won't recover. We can spend a googleplex worth of cash, but it will mean bubkus in the end without the banks giving loans. The Feds are doing everything but tackling the real issue, the banks.

That's because the Feds aren't economics professors and don't really understand how the economy works...

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Well, apparently, the state I live in isn't getting a freaking thing.

I'm also worried about the effects this is going to have. Many of these projects resemble FDR's "New Deal," but I'm a bit skeptical after the bailouts that have occurred.

Some of the projects, like the St. Louis MetroLink expansion seem to be useful and needed. Others just give me a huge "?" when I look at them.

Like the mentioned "people movers." Seriously. WE don't' need people movers in a recession. Tell the obese fat-asses of America to move their butts a bit faster and burn some calories while trying to catch their connecting flights.

edit: ...and yes, you know there's an issue when a LIBERAL person like myself is agreeing with the Republicans about this issue. ;)

Edited by manderlyh

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edit: ...and yes, you know there's an issue when a LIBERAL person like myself is agreeing with the Republicans about this issue. ;)
What's shocking is that all of a sudden the Republicans are fiscally conservative again...what's that about? Edited by wanna be drummer

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Like the mentioned "people movers." Seriously. WE don't' need people movers in a recession. Tell the obese fat-asses of America to move their butts a bit faster and burn some calories while trying to catch their connecting flights.

Only in America! :D

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What's shocking is that all of a sudden the Republicans are fiscally conservative again...what's that about?

Even if it takes a while, as long as they get back there.

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That's because the Feds aren't economics professors and don't really understand how the economy works...

Very true. I don't pretend to be either, but I do understand finance in the simple sense that without lending money to consumers, how does anyone truely expect industries such as the auto industry to bounce back? No one is paying 30,000 bucks for a new car without a loan from the bank. Housing? Forget it. The banks are the central nerve of the economic collapse and only they alone can save it.

What's shocking is that all of a sudden the Republicans are fiscally conservative again...what's that about?

That's because they no longer have Bush as their moneycow. I agree on some levels with their opposition to the stimulus bill. What makes them no better than the Democrats is their failure to actually address the real issues and make them public. I haven't heard a single Republican discuss what really needs to be done. They continue to bounce the ball back to their "principles" and "fundamentally different ideals." Pfft. Go fuck yourselves.

Edited by bigstickbonzo

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'SWINDLER'S LIST' starring Bernie Madoff and Allen Stanford

I'm sure Hollywood would consider it for an Oscar.

<_<

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Hi all,

Funny,none of this money is going to people who need it. :blink:

It's going to people who f***ed up in the first place and from people who didn't look after it.

Wallly: "You think,Beav?"

Beaver: "Yeah,swell,Wally." :rolleyes:

KB :burp:

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Even if it takes a while, as long as they get back there.
True, but this situation would've been easier to fix had they been true to their roots for the last 8 years.

Very true. I don't pretend to be either, but I do understand finance in the simple sense that without lending money to consumers, how does anyone truely expect industries such as the auto industry to bounce back? No one is paying 30,000 bucks for a new car without a loan from the bank. Housing? Forget it. The banks are the central nerve of the economic collapse and only they alone can save it.
Gonna have to agree with you here. Problem is, which banks get what? How do they spend it? How long will it take to work? Hell, will it wor period?

These are the things Congress needs to ask. Instead, we get Reid and Pelosi giving away money randomly to wherever they see fit, and don't question it so long as it "creates jobs"

Yup, honey bee insurance is creating jobs all right...

That's because they no longer have Bush as their moneycow. I agree on some levels with their opposition to the stimulus bill. What makes them no better than the Democrats is their failure to actually address the real issues and make them public. I haven't heard a single Republican discuss what really needs to be done. They continue to bounce the ball back to their "principles" and "fundamentally different ideals." Pfft. Go fuck yourselves.

Not disagreeing with you, but the same could be said of Democrats over the last 8 years though. That's the problem with this two party system. They don't have to actually explain their positions. If the other party fails, they'll get back in power and they know it. All they have to do is disagree with their policies and should those policies fail, boom, a Republican Congress again.

Which is why I'm thinking straight Libertarian vote next election...

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Hi all,

Get with the program,.....no one has a clue.

:slapface:

KB

So throwing taxpayer money at the problem is the solution?

They aren't attacking the root of the problem...and that's why I'm upset with Congress, Democrats and Republicans alike

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So throwing taxpayer money at the problem is the solution?

They aren't attacking the root of the problem...and that's why I'm upset with Congress, Democrats and Republicans alike

:rolleyes: Geez,that is what I'm saying,...... <_<

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Thank god some people can see through Obamanator's "I'm a smooth-talking minority" cloak...

I've got such a gargantuan boner from this thread that I'm passing out every 3 minutes from shortage of blood to my temporal lobe.

Change my ass. <_<

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Obama did say he will call out the people who uses this money unwisely. I have to believe that his speech in front of congress will sound like him reading a telephone book.

You know, most economics agree, if you give a trillion dollars to the Dept. of Defense, of GDP will grow by a trillion dollars.

If you give a trillion dollars to other sectors, you will be lucky to find something that will give you half in return back in GDP.

\

Thats why Regan did. Spent money on defense and lower taxes. Bush did the same and did grow this economy to it's highest lvl of all time until the bottom fellout.

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Bush did the same and did grow this economy to it's highest lvl of all time until the bottom fellout.

Bush also bred the culture of "spend, spend, spend" and "let us worry about the cost of the war." In doing this, he created a culture of indept Americans who were continually told "it would be alright" when it obviously would bottom out sooner than later.

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Financial fix? Abolish the Fed, says congressman Ron Paul: Constitution requires coin based on gold, silver

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: February 21, 2009

In just recent weeks, the federal government has designated billions of tax dollars for bank bailouts, including vast quantities to quasi-government agencies that helped create the economic crisis; billions more for automakers, and billions more for homeowners who default on their loans, so where will it end? Republican Rep. Ron Paul of Texas says he has at least part of the answer: abolish the Federal Reserve.

The congressman, a candidate for the 2008 Republican presidential nomination, once again has introduced a bill that would get rid of the private organization that sets interest rates and establishes monetary priorities.

"Abolishing the Federal Reserve will allow Congress to reassert its constitutional authority over monetary policy," Paul said in a statement at the time the proposal was introduced.

"The United States Constitution grants to Congress the authority to coin money and regulate the value of the currency," Paul said. "The Constitution does not give Congress the authority to delegate control over monetary policy to a central bank. Furthermore, the Constitution certainly does not empower the federal government to erode the American standard of living via an inflationary monetary policy."

You've never needed to understand money like you need to understand it now! "Web of Debt: The Shocking Truth About Our Money System and How We Can Break Free" unravels the deception of the Federal Reserve and presents a crystal clear picture of the financial abyss towards which we are heading.

The Texas lawmaker said the constitutional mandate to Congress actually provides only for currency "backed by stable commodities such as silver and gold."

"Abolishing the Federal Reserve and returning to a constitutional system will enable America to return to the type of monetary system envisioned by our nation's founders: one where the value of money is consistent because it is tied to a commodity such as gold," he said.

Paul said every problem in the economy, "from the Great Depression, to the stagflation of the '70s, to the current economic crisis caused by the housing bubble," can be traced to Federal Reserve policy.

Paul's plan calls for the director of the Office of Management and Budget to "liquidate" Fed assets "in an orderly manner so as to achieve as expeditious a liquidation as may be practical while maximizing the return to the Treasury."

Columnist and commentator Chuck Baldwin believes it's about time.

"'We've seen money go out the back door of this government unlike any time in the history of our country,' Senator Byron Dorgan, a North Dakota Democrat, said on the Senate floor. 'Nobody knows what went out of the Federal Reserve Board, to whom and for what purpose. How much from the FDIC? How much from TARP? When? Why?'" he wrote.

"Senator Dorgan is exactly right. No one oversees the Fed. The Fed is held accountable to absolutely nobody. But Senator Dorgan (as with everyone else in Congress) has no one to blame but himself. Ever since the Marxist, E. Mandell House, convinced President Woodrow Wilson to create the Federal Reserve in 1913, the Congress of the United States has had virtually nothing to do with the way our fiscal policies are managed. The Fed (which is not even a government agency, but rather a private corporation consisting of mostly foreign bankers) dictates America's financial policies," Baldwin said.

Baldwin cites the U.S. Constitution itself. In Article I, Section 8, Paragraph 5, it states Congress has the authority to "coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures."

"Only the elected Congress, not some private foreign (or even domestic) banking interest, has the power to make monetary policy," he said, and "paper money – known as the Federal Reserve Notes – is not even legal tender."

The problem Paul's plan confronts is simple, he wrote.

"No cosponsors. That's right. No cosponsors," he said.

"Until the American people demand that their elected members of Congress live up to their duties and responsibilities under the Constitution, they will continue to have their pockets picked clean by these corrupt banksters in New York City (and London) and their contemptible facilitators in Washington, D.C.," Baldwin wrote.

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke this week said "policymakers" have "pulled out all the stops – cutting the federal funds rate … and establishing a series of lending programs designed to add liquidity into credit constrained markets."

He also committed to more "transparency," by introducing a new website for Fed information and new communications efforts.

Paul was unimpressed.

"While I applaud any effort towards greater Federal Reserve transparency, Chairman Bernanke's latest effort contains more window dressing than substance," he said.

Getting information from the Fed won't help, he said, "as this data is often inaccurate.

"If the Fed could not be trusted to foresee the present economic downturn, despite the myriad of market commentators predicting this, why should the current Fed data and predictions be any more trusted?" Paul asked. "Furthermore, these new initiatives only divert focus from the real areas where transparency is needed. The Fed's agreements with foreign central banks and international finance institutions need to be audited, as do the source and destination of funds provided through the Fed's emergency funding facilities."

At the CitizenEconomists.com site, J.D. Seagraves noted his organization's poll showed a "sarcastic and/or deranged 5 percent of respondents" believe the Fed's performance in the current economy is excellent.

One in four in that poll believe, "We should get rid of them."

"Support for abolishing the Federal Reserve System is mounting every day," the report said. "The fact that people are beginning to wake up to the problems caused by the Federal Reserve System is a hopeful sign. The only question is: is it too late? Can the dollar be saved by the political action of the president and the Congress, or must we wait for the entire global financial system to completely melt down so we can start over?"

Columnist Jacob Hornberger last year noted that while Paul's abolition plan is considered "wacky" by some, at least two Nobel Prize-winning economists have agreed.

Economists Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek called for the abolition of the Fed during their careers, Hornberger notes.

"While Friedman spent much of his life advocating externally imposed constraints on the Fed's power to expand the money supply, his first wish was to have the Fed abolished, as he pointed out in a 1995 Reason magazine interview. In his book, 'Denationalization of Money: An Analysis of the Theory and Practice of Concurrent Currencies,' Hayek advocated a free-market monetary system of competing currencies," said Hornberger.

"Most Americans probably still believe that the Great Depression was caused by 'the failure of the free-enterprise system.' It is a false belief. The truth is that the worst economic disaster in American history was caused by the Federal Reserve. Give current Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke credit for publicly acknowledging that fact in a speech delivered in 2002 commemorating Friedman's 90th birthday," Hornberger said.

It was recently reported that under the fiscal policies of the Fed, the total obligations of the United States have reached $65.5 trillion – exceeding the gross domestic product of the world.

Edited by The Rover

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It was recently reported that under the fiscal policies of the Fed, the total obligations of the United States have reached $65.5 trillion – exceeding the gross domestic product of the world.

Hot damned!!!

"Come in here dear boy.... " <_<

Edited by bigstickbonzo

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