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artur

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Posts posted by artur


  1. Holy cow, what a wild discussion.

    Setting aside the acrimonious tone and personalized insults thrown to and fro, there is a GREAT DEAL of misunderstanding, misinformation, ignorance and assumption in many of the posts here.

    The original and subsequent posts by GitGlenn (or whatever the handle is) rightly provoked negative responses because of the writer's unfortunate choice of words. While I cannot endorse GG's methods, it is very common for audience members who have high expectations for a performance, only to be disappointed by the sound at the venue, to be very hostile. And sometimes, rightly so. The idea, however, that he/she/it could "fix the sound in 10 minutes" is so arrogant, uninformed and presumptuous as to be embarrassing.

    I should clarify that I do concert sound for a living. I have quite a lot of experience at many different levels within the industry, from engineering to show production, and I am sympathetic to GG's complaint, however poorly presented. Nevertheless, the forum deserves what small clarification I can offer, so I shall try:

    First, the system at the O2 was NOT an “EV” line array, nor was Clair cabinets employed. The FOH board was NOT a Digico. The description of digital boards in the earlier post was incorrect on many general and specific technical levels. The short discussion about monitors touched on authentic issues but did so inexactly, as did the one or two posts about mics, etc., etc., etc.

    The system design begins with Meyer Sound (USA) MILO and MICA line array systems and 700HP subs with a Midas (UK) XL8 FOH digital console and a Midas Heritage H3000 monitor console. Meyer would have provided the system management electronics and software. Midas and Klark Teknik are located in Kidderminster, near Robert's home. He and Roy Williams - his FOH engineer - have used Meyer and Midas systems for many years now. Meyer Sound is located in California, owned by John and Helen Meyer, true pioneers in concert sound. Most of the rig was rented through Major Tom LTD in the UK.

    The system at the O2 was indeed operated by some of the best people in the live concert sound industry. As I mentioned before - and was rightly sited in one of the posts here - both Roy Williams AND Big Mick Hughes (Metallica) mixed at FOH, while Dee Miller mixed monitors. Lars Brogaard (Rolling Stones) as principle in Major Tom LTD also provided his expertise. Both Meyer and Midas provided system engineering by providing their international touring designers.

    It is true that Led Zeppelin, and Jimmy Page particularly, greatly influenced both the system design and implementation. Jimmy indeed auditioned systems and interviewed engineers before making certain decisions. Robert would not have worked without Roy looking after all aspects of his vox, simple as that.

    The problems encountered at this event were anticipated somewhat as the O2 does have challenging acoustic properties. Many of the biggest acts in the world have played there with mixed results, including Prince and Elton John. Jimmy was quoted prior to the Dec 10th event as being impressed with the system and mix at Elton's show and claimed he would be “speaking to his sound engineers”.

    No in-ear monitors were employed. Robert famously dislikes them, as many - but hardly all - older musicians do. Jimmy and JPJ likely reason their monitor preferences the same as Robert. There were, instead, many similarities between the monitor system at the O2, the one normally employed by Robert on his many recent international tours, and the basic designs used by Led Zeppelin dating back as far as 1973: floor wedges, side-fills and BIG cabinets hung above stage left and right. Stage levels would have been LOUD, always a problem for the monitor engineer regardless of how carefully prepared he or she might be.

    Speaking directly to the feedback heard primarily at the beginning of the show (although occasionally it reoccurred), this was likely a result of vocals in the monitors that suffered from one or several very errant or "hot" frequencies that have to be hunted down as the performance goes on. This is really fucking hard to do, especially under the gun and with little time to sort out if the issue is acoustic or mechanical or both. It can easily be presumed that the monitor engineer worked as hard and as fast as he could, drawing on many years experience, to eliminate the issue, probably via his many EQ options, and it simply took him longer than anyone - especially him - would have liked. But he did fix it.

    Addressing the complaints posted here about house sound, an old axiom from the theater can apply: many times, the "best" seat in the house can be the worst place to see and/or hear a show. Sound systems for large venues especially are designed for the overall size and acoustic properties of the venue, followed closely by the requirements of more specific areas.

    Certain compromises are inevitable, and the science and art of sound reinforcement certainly is ongoing. Acoustic properties at venues influence outcomes substantially, of course, and the O2 is one of the most difficult places to design and operate large concert sound reinforcement systems, as we have noted. Where a person stands (sits) also greatly influences their experience and therefore, perception of how successful the engineers were. I can guess that GG could have been at a disadvantage because of close proximity to where the subs were landed, and if so, was victimized by his "great seat".

    The engineers would have made every single attempt their education, training and experience would allow to anticipate and solve the enormous mechanical, acoustic, and production issues they faced at this event. It is very true that measurements made in an empty arena would betray how the system would perform once an audience populated the venue, but there are methods that anticipate some of – but not all - these factors. I know from personal experience what it is to take measurements, factor in absorption properties and be completely wrong. I am not saying these guys were wrong; I am saying that I have empathy, to say the least.

    It is also true that Led Zeppelin is both notoriously loud and averse to sound checks, something that does not help the sound-types. Add the enormous expectations WORLDWIDE for this event, and you may begin to have a sense for what all the participants were going through as they worked to fulfill everyone's expectations.

    The event was recorded by all accounts, either for an album or DVD or both, and it could have been tracked with a ProTools rig at FOH, but for an event of this magnitude this kind of arrangement is doubtful. There would have been an active stage split of some sophisticated variety going to a separate recording system placed separately from the house system. The video record was directed by Dick Carruthers, famous for his work on the Led Zeppelin DVD and consulting on the recent TSRTS DVD reissue.

    By most accounts, the event generally and the house sound particularly were successful. There were issues, and audience participants are entitled to their opinions and reactions. Those of us who have been in the monitor or FOH chair literally work day and night to get the best show for the audience and the performers. Sometimes there are issues, but everyone works like hell to solve them. No one deserves to be “shot”.

    Please reference the provided links for specifics on the house and monitor system:

    http://mixonline.com/news/meyersound-ledze...02arena-122707/

    http://prosoundnewseurope.com/index.php?op...5&Itemid=27

    http://www.unityaudio.co.uk/article.php?id=50&loc=news

    http://www.midasconsoles.com/pressreleases...d-Zeppelin.html

    http://www.meyersound.com/news/2007/led_zeppelin/

    http://www.wholelottamilo.com/

    Yes!! You clarified some point I've understood. Happy to see that finally this topic goes on a good track...A technical one!!!

    Thanks a lot!!

    Artur


  2. Sure! Some microphones, including the recorders; are subjective because of their frequency response !! But if some microphones, as you Mr. Beautiful, are subjective, some other ones whichj are dedicated to live or studio recording are not!! Their frequency response is nearly flat...

    http://www.schoeps.de/E-2004/specs-mk-ccm41s.html

    Kashmir recording is so far the Best one ever!!!! and it uses that small tiny microphone, astouding hu?!! :D :D :D :D


  3. Thanks for that linkage too. It' nice to see it all together like that again.

    They (RP, JPJ, JP) play off each other nicely in all those songs.

    :)

    It's just odd to see Jimmy on the left though. :huh:

    Bob's acceptance speach....lol....funny

    Jonesy's comments, HA HA!

    Does someone know about the forceps comment that Jimmy made?

    Can't watch the videos I'm in France, is it normal?

    Could someone help?

    Artur


  4. Yeah I heard that very small part of the song where the mistake occured, its kinda strange but anyway...so COOL!!!

    Love it, even page when he began to sing the lyrics after that little moment is a little bit lost i think, tryin to say to the other guys playin': calm down guys, calm down...^^

    After KASHMIR one of my favorite song of the evening

    Plant's vocal on that one are nearly perfect, i like very much when he sings

    YOUUU HUURT AND ABUUSED TEEELIIN AAAALL OF YOUUR LIES

    Just A M A Z I N G!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:


  5. I remember very well the anticipation of Led Zeppelin's next release after Houses of the Holy (around 1975 I believe). It was an 18 month wait and the ourcry and excitement and anticipation for their next album in my opinion was unpredented. I remember I couldnt wait to get my hands on it and of course I bought the 8 track (the best technology available then) and put it in the sterio in my 1966 fastbackk Mustang. When I first heard Trampled Under Foot and Kashmir I was dumbfounded. Impressed but "Dazed and Confused" so to speak as it was so differant than anything previous. I was wondering how the critics and the music world and us young rockers in the US would react. The rest is history. I do think that it took a bit of time though. It is an album that grows on you and you have to listen a few times to get hooked. And to this day it is one of my favorites.

    This Album Rocks, you're right!!


  6. Yeah sure!! Those two are THUNDEROUS versions...I mean, i have a couple of JBL DECADES L26 at home, don't know which type of mic they used for the drum kit but it sounds like thunder, Even with a light equalization you can't "erase' this thunderous sound...It is still present in some xay even if you reduce the volume of bass frequencies. I like it very much, but i must admit I NEVER EVER heard my JBL sound that way...

    JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay:

    Here is a link where you'll find some pictures of my loudspeakers

    http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/JBL-L26.htm


  7. but don't forget.....a couple audience releases out right now are about as good as you are going to hear....and no, I don't mean the slowburn or Maiai sources.....those cdr's are beer coasters. The 2 you want are Jules' and Schoepps sources. The only thing better would be a multitrack recording. Page will never release a sbd.....it's limited to 2 channels and you can't balance the instruments or isolate single channels and alter them.

    Yeah sure!! Those two are THUNDEROUS versions...I mean, i have a couple of JBL DECADES L26 at home, don't know which type of mic they used for the drum kit but it sounds like thunder, Even with a light equalization you can't "erase' this thunderous sound...It is still present in some xay even if you reduce the volume of bass frequencies. I like it very much, but i must admit I NEVER EVER heard my JBL sound that way...

    JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay:


  8. :notworthy::notworthy:^_^ what is it with people who dont like led zep i mean how do u not see the greatness in them

    cuz i was on you tube a few days ago whatch'n a zeppelin video and i read the comments below

    this guy said why does everyone luv them sooo much i hate them!!!it makes me want to go slap some since into them you know!!!

    ugh

    Some people don't even like Chopin...

    That's their choice!!!

    I did care some time ago, I was always ready to fight, now I don't.

    I don't wanna know why they hate them or why they don't like the music led zep do!!

    I mean you'll always find people who will say that Gold is crap...

    Love!!!

    Artur


  9. The cover art was interesting when it first came out on vinyl. There were card board cutouts for the windows and the sleave liners had different pictures that you could align to show through the window holes. Some of them were pretty funny. The band was in drag in some shots. It was the album that turned me into a hard core fan. Page said that by recording the album during different places and times a good variation was achieved in the moods of the songs.

    Thanks for that my friend!!

    I want some more Please!!! ^^

    Artur


  10. The initial recording sessions began at Headley Grange in November 1973, however they were cut short when JPJ became ill. He said the accomodations there were damp and

    dreary, but Jimmy loved the place.

    In February 1974 they resumed the sessions, and by Springtime had moved them to

    (Mick Jagger's) Stargroves in Newbury, Berkshire, England. They were joined by Eddie Kramer and his studio hand Ron Nevison.

    Final mixing of the album was completed in November 1974.

    As you can see, despite Jimmy's oft-quoted comment that "1974 didn't really happen",

    insofar as progress in the studio towards a new album it certainly did. :)

    Great stuff!! I didn't know that ^^ What about Alternative Graffiti then?

    More informations about those recording sessions? ^^

    Artur


  11. Damn, those British sure know how to speak eloquently. Not like us Americans.

    Here's the American translation:

    DUUUUUDE: You fuckin rock, man! We had some good times, and bad. Stayed in one shithole after another, but you and the other 3 just tore that shit up! Props!

    :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

    That's the best i've ever read....


  12. so i emailed the professor and this is what i said to him:

    hello professor.

    you're probably wondering who i am. my name is Zach. I am a Led Zeppelin follower because to me, Led Zeppelin kicks ass and Jimmy Page is God. I am a member of the Official Led Zeppelin Forum. I am frustrated and upset with the article you wrote on "Stairway to Heaven." I personally believe it's a load of crap and am shocked at this. but hear is my argument. "Stairway to Heaven" is the greatest song ever written. I dont know why you think it almost destroyed Zeppelin.

    Some have heard "Stairway'"s chromatically descending A-minor intro as a theft for Spirit's "Taurus," but "Taurus" begins with a first-position chord voiced down in single steps from A to F, whereas Page played at the jazzier second position (5th fret), then moves from A minor to A minor (add9) / G-sharp to C / G then to open D.

    thats the difference. How did Zeppelin become a joke? it sounds like you dont like Zeppelin and just wanna bash them. i find it a bunch of shit and Zeppelin should be praised fro what they did in the music world instead of being bashed.

    When I read that I alwaus see a small boy in front of the profesor claiming out loud how much he loves HIS BAND.

    AND I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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