price.pittsburgh
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Posts posted by price.pittsburgh
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On 4/17/2011 at 1:26 PM, swandown said:
Al Stewart had seen both Jansch and Anne Briggs perform "Blackwaterside" at the coffee bars in early 1966, before either one of them had recorded the song. Then in June 1966 Stewart did a session with Page and taught the song to Page (according to Stewart).
By the way, Jansch claims that he got the song from Briggs, who claims that she got the song from a traveling Irish folk singer named Mary Doran. However, this is almost definitely wrong. Jansch's version is actually a note-for-note copy of a 1962 version by Isla Cameron.
I always thought it was ironic that the Bert Jansch fans have criticized Page for copying Jansch, yet no one ever criticizes Jansch for copying Isla Cameron.
For the same reason that Ann Bredon sued Page for Babe I'm Gonna Leave You but didn't sue Joan Baez and willie Dixon sued for Wole Lotta Love but didn't sue The Small Faces for You Need Loving. They didn't care about artist integrity if someone who wasn't making any money recorded it, they only cared when there was cash to be made of a successful act.
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Did he remaster them anew for the individual albums or did he just use the same remasters he did for the box sets?
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My favorite Zep song is from III, which is Since I've Been Loving You. However, favorite album is tough. It's between I and II.
I always saw those as sister albums
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Presence is a mood album for me. I'm never gonna play just one track on it but rather play the album in it's entirety. That being said, If I could only keep one of the two I'd keep ITTOD because it has more variety.
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I never disliked it but I found the alternate mix on the Deluxe Zep IV far more enjoyable.
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Hello, I haven't been on ere in a while and I have voiced a lot of my points on a general music forum I'm part of and should have thought to come here first, my bad for sure.
Here's a copy and paste of my own comment on that forum after finding out the verdict.
I'm not gonna lie.
This win for Zeppelin was an emotional moment for me and so was this trial.
I'm almost glad now that it went to court, because it vindicates them, and brings forth a lot of facts about each song, as well as musical composition in general, for the Zep opponents to consider.
I don't believe everyone who sided with Spirit are Zep haters and these comments are not aimed at them.
But there are many, who had Zep lost this case, would have then attempted to trash the entire song, and pay no mind to the details of the case that favored Zeppelin.
I'm gonna be 46 in a couple of weeks.
Had Zeppelin lost their official claim to Stairway To Heaven, even just the intro, I would have aged 10 years.
I kept Googling "Stairway To Heaven" on my phone early in the day, knowing that I'm on the East Coast and I would have to consider West Coast time.
At about 130 pm East Coast time, about 1030 am West Coast time, I glanced again at my phone while sitting at the drive thru at the bank.
I saw on Google from a Billboard link "Led Zeppelin Wins 'Stairway To Heaven' Jury Trial"
A huge sense of both joy and relief came over my body and I felt emotion in my face.
No, I didn't cry, lol, but I swear, I probably could have made myself at that point.
I felt like they were attempting to take away a huge part of our youth and a huge part of Rock and Roll history.
I felt they had no right, over something so short and common, to go so hard after a song that means so much to so many, especially this many years later.
Even though it was only about a short intro, that intro is so iconic, it would have still royally sucked had they lost
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I haven't purchased any of the companion discs except for Zep I for the concert.
I have downloaded all the deluxe material.
The rough mixes are really cool. The reference mixes, not so much.
I do enjoy the backing tracks too.
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Seems like most people who bash other artists are clearly envious of the massive success of the one they're bashing. Baker insulting Bonham and Moon, as well as the Stones in a different interview, by claiming they aren't very good musicians and that Charlie Watts was the best musician in the band. Then as discussed here before, we have Keith Richards insulting Zeppelin and Bonham in particular. Then Pete Townsend once said that he played a Beatles track without the lyrics and it was bloody awful. Note that the bands being insulted on these examples are Zeppelin The Stones and The Beatles. Basically the three biggest bands ever. So it's clear the insults come from people who wished they had been as big or don't like that someone was as big as them.
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It's brilliant, but it lacks diversity and is somewhat monochromatic, with no real hit. ITTOD had way more going for it in terms of diversity and accessibility. I love both albums, but I can clearly see why Presence was not a commercial success, compared to other albums. It is an album of "deep cuts".
Good points no doubt, but at least in the U.S. it's sales tell us that many Zep fans don't own it in regular form. Many own both early 90s box sets and therefore own all the tracks. Others own it within the 2 complete cd box sets. I recognize that a lot of sales figures for any album, are based on casual fans, as well as many who only listen to an album a few times. Still, I feel like if every die hard Zep fan owned a copy of Presence that it would exceed the 3 million. I have always wondered what Zep's cd sales were. Just cds, not other formats from back in the day. Presence probably does even worse just under the cd format. Not sure.
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I always wonder what it is that has made this album, not only receive a lot of flack, but commercially be so underwhelming compared to other Zep outings.
In the U.S. it sits at 3 million. Of Course the RIAA only certifies by the millions (With the exception of the first 500,000) so if it's pushing 4 million we won know until it gets there.
Still, ITTOD is certified in the U.S. at 6 million, and 3 million of that is after it's initial splash.
Regardless of peoples perceptions of ITTOD, I believe it was aided greatly by the fact that Zep hadn't released any new material in 3 1/2 years since Presence. ITTOD also had a lot of radio play because of the radio friendly material. I only mention ITTOD because it has also received less than stellar reviews in recent years by some.
But still, all these years later, you would think that Presence would have climbed to 5 million.
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I was raised on The Beatles during the 70s and early 80s. I owned all of their Capital albums on vinyl and then all their EMI cds.
My love for Zeppelin and The Beatles is a weird brother against brother battle. I had cliches, but the apples and oranges thing really does apply here. Both are fruits, both taste great and both are good for you. Still both taste and fell differently and it depends on which mood you are in at the moment. You can make that analogy with anything, but I think it really applies to these two bands, at least in my world.
I also love The Who but less than these two.
I like The Stones quite a bit but with them I'm more of a signature tracks fan.
I think Zeppelin and The Beatles are the two bands that, although, have different foundations and influences (Beatles - R&B, Zeppelin-Blues) both have the most in common as it applies to delving into various genres and studio experimentation.
It should really be no surprise that they are the top two bands off all time commercially. Usually, stats and figures can be misleading, but in this case, I think it speaks genuinely to the greatness of each group.
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The o2 gig has really grown on me even though the guys are older. Something about knowing they rehearsed so much and the energy you feel from the crowd, who understand what they are witnessing.
The entire thing just has the triumphant feel. It doesn't matter that Jimmy's solos and Plant's voice aren't what they used to be. They're still damn good, all thing considered. And even without Bonzo, just knowing it's his blood and someone who was tight with the guys all those years, as well as being someone who actually knew their music inside and out, makes it feel very genuine. JPJ, as always, was a rock.
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Am I the only one going crazy about that studio outtake of Since I've Been Loving You!
No you're not. I think the vocals are much better but that Jimmy's solo is better on the master.
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I think people just sort of think of ITTOD as solo Plant because it's the last regular Zep album before Plant went solo and his voice is much more similar on the album to his solo stuff, than on previous Zep albums.
JPJ showed once again that he could step up when necessary. I think he enjoyed his role in Led Zeppelin whatever it was, whether he co-wrote one song of 7 as he did on Presence or 6 of 7 as he did on ITTOD.
I agree that Robert drastically changed his lyrical direction on ITTOD.. There's nothing raunchy.. It changed because HE changed. He went through a devastating, life changing experience. He got off drugs and I would think was in a very reflective and less cocky state of mind. ITTOD reflects this..
But it is not a Robert Plant solo album..
John Bonham, while less bombastic and received no writing credit came up with some of his most creative and tasteful drumming.
Jimmy in some ways took a respectful back seat, which I think he felt was appropriate.. All anyone has to do is give the DW2 soundtrack a spin to hear that his creative brilliance was still obvious. And make no mistake, he produced In Through The Out Door.
I also agree that Pictures At Eleven had much in common with ITTOD. But, by Principle Of Moments, Robert's solo direction was very different..I think people just sort of think of ITTOD as solo Plant because it's the last regular Zep album before Plant went solo and his voice is more similar on the album to his solo stuff, than on previous Zep albums, if for no other reason, his age.
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Why the "reunions"? The only man who can really explain that is Robert Plant, and I don't think even he could adequately explain it. It all boils down to a life of extreme pain and pleasure, all mixed up in the mind of a true artist, highly conflicted with immense pride of what he'd achieved, as well as the true artistic desire to seek new frontiers. If you try too hard to figure him out, your head will explode!
Valid points. I think we all say things sincerely and mean them but everything falls under conditions. In 1980 they never envisioned a concert as significant as Live Aid or a 24 hour music channel that could make it even bigger. They couldn't envision an Atlantic records anniversary celebration or a Rock and Roll HOF. Plus, people's perspectives change over time. One think they have held true to, is not recording new music/studio albums, without Bonzo
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I have often wondered how Bonzo's death would have affected the band had they not had all the other issues in recent years. Robert's car accident, his son's death, the drug issues with Grant and Page, as well as tax issues. Had everything been going pretty good for them and Bonham died, then it certainly makes you wonder.
With everything I mentioned or has been stated that went along with his death, then absolutely they made the right decision. However, why would they even have those three sub par reunions between 85 and 95 if they were so convinced they couldn't be together without Bonzo?
The longer it O2 cd and dvd exists, the more I'm convinced that it is one of the most important Zep moments ever. I honestly feel the decision not to tour or reunite since that concert is just as significant not to record another studio album with a new drummer.
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Funny that when Spin Magazine ranked all 87 Led Zeppelin Songs,
Darlene was picked 3rd last.
The guy who wrote the article seemed like he was trying to be entertaining,
but most of his reviews of the songs were pretty clueless.
Yeah that guy was an idiot
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On YouTube, whoever had the camcorder in 93 did a good job. Anyway, Coverdale IMO sounds like garbage on the Zep songs. Especially on IMTOD
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I personally can't take listening to Coverdale singing IMTOD from 93, on YouTube. It just sounds like 80s over the top screeching to me.
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I just opened III and realized the cardboard case has the little paper wheel that changes the faces like the original LP, lol
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I grew up on The Who to some extent. My dad was sort of a fan. Before I ever got into Zeppelin, I owned Who albums and cds. Unlike Zeppelin, I do feel like you can give a beginner a genuine feel for The Who with a solid greatest hits package. I'm not saying it does them full justice, especially since Tommy is so epic as an album, but The Who were a pretty darn good singles band. That's not an insult. Most of their signature tracks are somewhere in between a radio song and album cut. IMHO there is no way you can do Zeppelin even the slightest justice with even a double set greatest hits. Without being concept albums, Zeppelin's albums all had a great feel to them that made every track essential. The Who only had one album that was non concept and still classic. That was Who's Next, and even it was meant to originally be a concept album. Most of Zeppelin's albums are either on par with Who's next or close to it.
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I was playing them today on my living room stereo, as well as in my vehicle (yes it has an old cd player in it) and then on my computer after I imported them to iTunes under the lossless encoder. As of now I honestly can't tell the difference between them and the Mastered for iTunes ones I purchased in 256 kbps lossy.
I also can't tell a big difference between them and the 94 remasters but I think I do sense the brick walling thing on the 90s ones, in comparison, but I could just be fooling myself.
I'm starting to wonder if these types of remasters really aren't just for the audiophiles or for people with extremely expensive equipment.
So basically, I'm chalking it up to owning in hard copy, cd format, the the re issues for collection purposes
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Exchanged Zep I in for the Deluxe version for 6 more bucks because it has a legitimate bonus disc. Still debating on the others.
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I see what you mean.
And back to your comments about vinyl. I would love to get a new turntable system and re buy a bunch of new vinyl of old albums but it's not financially practical right now. Neither was buying all those Wal Mart cds I just did or dropping 30 bucks on the 2003 DVD last week, lol but it is what it is. But yeah, I love vinyl, always did. I lost all my album covers when a basement I was storing them in flooded back in 87. After that I sort of little by little replaced everything with cassette tapes and eventually cds. I do own those novelty record players you get at retail stores, just to put old album on for kicks.
Discrepency over Black Mountain Side / Blackwaterside claims
in Led Zeppelin Master Forum
Posted
I was under the impression that Baez version only said traditional and that's why Page listed his as traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page.