tmtomh
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Posts posted by tmtomh
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17 hours ago, Strider said:
I don't have blind devotion. I have mentioned the times I felt the band should have credited others. But just because they were neglectful on a few doesn't taint all of their songs.
If you had read Alex Ross' article or watched Beato's video, you would understand the slippery-slope to doom that a judgement against Led Zeppelin in this case would create. Creativity is never clear-cut black-and-white. Picasso, Shakespeare, Bach. If we were to apply today's litigious standards to the past, no one would be able to escape being labelled a plagiarist...not even God.
So if you've got something of musical or legal value to say in defense of Spirit receiving credit for "Stairway to Heaven", by all means enlighten us. Don't hide behind some "fanboy" excuse.
Otherwise I will have to assume that you have nothing of real substance to say. You're just one of those "Led Zeppelin are thieves" people with no ability to parse the real from the fake.
Spot on.
I've always felt Spirit's case was weak, but I confess I've had some ambivalence - I've sort of felt 75-25 in favor of Zeppelin. But after watching Beato's video, my ambivalence is gone. Others did somewhat similar videos when the case first went to trial, but Beato's is by far the most concise, the clearest, and has the most evidence packed into it. In fact, Zep should just call him as an expert witness and be done with it.
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Yeah, it's pretty epic. 👍
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The real 50th Anniversary celebration has begun, now that the new EVSD Japan 929 soundboard is in the wild. Man, what a show, and what an amazing sounding source, incomplete though it is.
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On 9/7/2018 at 10:19 PM, Allister said:
It is a DVD file. It is still formatted in 5.1...I think "Blueray" only enhances video. So, DVD audio should be the same. Most Blueray players will also play DVDs, as well.
I may be wrong...
It's very confusing, but here's the key difference: The DVD and Blu-Ray both have the same lossless high-res stereo track. But because of space limitations the DVD's 5.1 surround track is lossy DTS (and/or Dolby digital), whereas the Blu-Ray's 5.1 surround track is lossless DTS-HD.
Now in practice, can you hear the difference? That depends on one's setup I suppose. IMHO, the sonic difference will be small.
3 hours ago, Wildernesshike said:I purchased the download. The sound quality is significantly improved. Plant's vocals are more clear on nearly every song. At some points, drums are better defined and not as recessed. Overall, I get the impression that this is how the album should have sounded all along. I am wondering what was done with the remaster to improve the sound quality. Is the tech better now for remastering?
25 minutes ago, gibsonfan159 said:They remastered off the 2007 release, so I imagine they only adjusted the mix and balance from the multitrack they had saved for that release. The problem with many recordings between 2000 and 2012 is over-compression, known as the "Loudness wars". For some reason record labels got into a competition to see how much they could increase the volume on CDs. In order to keep the audio from distorting, they had to compress the hell out of it, resulting in inferior sound quality. These remasters have the compression dialed back which gives the instruments more space. It's the one thing they did right with them.
Agree 100% with gibsonfan. The new mastering is just that - a remastering of the already mixed 2-track stereo and 5.1 track multichannel from 2007. The difference - as with How the West Was Won - is that John Davis has done a better job now, with a different mastering philosophy, than Kevin Shirley did back in 2007 (or 2003 in the case of HTWWW).
The improvement on both releases is similar: less compressed (because this time around little or no compression was used in mastering - the only compression is what was already baked into the mix, which was Shirley's prior work); and somewhat different EQ choices that seem to create a less fatiguing, less artificially "modern/punchy," more laid-back and natural sound.
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On 8/13/2018 at 9:00 AM, TangerineDreamer said:
All I know is I saw LZ 3/1/77 in Baton Rouge, La and thought it was absolutely fantastic. Never seen anything like it before or since. C’mon! It’s Led Zeppelin! What’s not to like?
I can imagine! There are many, many first-person accounts from folks like you who were fortunate enough to see Zep live in '77, and the consensus seems to be that, as flawed as the performances can sound on the tapes we have, the actual experience was much better and on a whole different level.
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On 6/25/2018 at 5:37 PM, confounded_bridge said:
Hi everyone. I've been reading this forum for a long time and i recently created an account. I enjoy all the twelve years of music that Led Zeppelin gave to us, and i am a huge fan of the 1977 tour. I see that the 77 tour gets slammed by some waterheads here and there, without a reason. I decided to rank all the 77 shows, to prove that most of them are good. THE ORDER IS RANDOM. I included only the shows that we have recordings for.
BAD/WEIRD SHOWS
Tempe Arizona, July 20 1977
Oklahoma city, April 3 1977 (the band is unrehearsed)
Chicago, April 6 1977 (the band is unrehearsed)
Chicago, April 7 1977 (the band still sounds a little bit rusty)
Landover Maryland, May 26 1977 (IMTOD and Kashmir are trainwrecks)
MEDIOCRE-GOOD SHOWS
Houston TX, May 21 1977 (good performance)
Fort worth TX, May 22 1977 (good performance)
Landover, May 25 and 28 1977 (mediocre to good)
Cleveland, April 27 1977 (good)
Chicago, April 9 1977 (good)
Cincinatti, April 19 and 20 1977 (good)
Atlanta, April 23 1977 (good)
Kentucky, April 25 1977 (good)
New York, June 7 1977 (good)
San Diego, June 19 1977 (brilliant playing from Jimmy, bad playing from Bonzo)
Seattle, July 17 1977 (good show, but shitty SIBLY and Jimmy is lost during the OTHAFA solo)
Oakland, July 23 1977 (good show, but Jimmy completely destroys the TYG solo)
Oakland, July 24 1977 (good)
VERY GOOD-LEGENDARY SHOWS
Chicago, April 10 1977 (very good, the only bad moment is the first TYG solo, but Jimmy makes up with the second solo)
Cleveland, April 28 1977 (excellent show, one of the best TYG, great NQ, kashmir and ALS)
Pontiac, April 30 1977 (excellent, Jimmy plays greatly)
Birmingham, May 18 1977 (excellent)
Landover, May 30 1977 (excellent)
Tampa, June 3 1977 (it started excellent and powerful)
New York, June 8,10,11,13,14 1977 (excellent)
Los Angeles, June 21,22,23,25,26,27 1977 (epic, legendary shows, with the 22nd being my favorite)
I'd like to hear your opinions on my list.
Nice topic - and nice list!
Like Zep Head and others, I generally agree with you here. I actually would rank Fort Worth 5-22 in the top category (not legendary, but definitely very good to excellent) - for example I think it's a far better performance than the night before in Houston.
Otherwise, though, I think you're spot on (or at least very close) on your rankings, at least for the '77 shows I'm most familiar with.
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I always liked the Bridge the Midget Plantation from the 1971 BBC show. Plus the "1-2-3 Mr. Bonham!" interlude in Osaka 929 when Bonham leaves the stage for awhile.
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I think the OP's list is great and covers a lot of the bases (and yes. 6-22-77 was the first show that popped into my head when I read the thread title). And subsequent posts I mostly agree with too.
For overrated, I'd add Vancouver 3-21-70. Tried and tried but cannot get into it, and esp. compared to other 1970s shows - Royal Albert Hall, Montreux, LA Forum, Madison Square Garden, and of course Bath - it just pales.For 1980, to each their own, but I don't think anyone can call it overrated, because it's so frequently trashed - you can say it sucks, but you can't call something overrated if it already has a bad reputation.
For underrated, I'd throw in Tokyo 9-23-71. It's a well-regarded show, but still criminally overlooked in general because of the legendary 929 show. 929 has a slight edge because the setlist is so very unusual and interesting - but 9-23 is fully its equal performance-wise IMHO.
Oh - and I'll also include the Paris 10-10-69 show in the underrated category. No, it's not April '69 on the US West Coast, but still, I've always loved this show ever since I first heard it many years ago - and since it got released officially as the Zep I companion disc, its reputation seems to have gone from "okay" to "bad," for reasons that IMHO have absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the performance. I think it's great, and also pretty interesting - hilarious stage banter, a fantastic You Shook Me, the only Good Times Bad Times/Communication Breakdown opener that exists in decent sound quality, and the first known live performance of Moby Dick (not to mention the only known live performance of the track before Zep II's release date).
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17 hours ago, John M said:
I am reaching the conclusion that Over the Hills on this new HTWWW is one of the most exciting recordings of Zeppelin I have ever heard. I can't imagine what it must have been like to see one of those 1972 shows where this incredible song was debuted. That beautiful guitar only pastoral opening, Plant enters in a mellow but wonderful "singer" mode, Page picks up steam, and then what a blast off with Plant managing to go sky high over the all-out bulldozer assault. So much power and energy. It is still impressive to this day although we have all heard the song many many times. It is still so captivating and well electrifying. You know that blast off is approaching and it still packs a wallop. For those of you lucky enough to have seen Over the Hills live in 1972 I would like to hear your thoughts.
Too young to have seen them live, but I agree about this track - and I think we're fortunate to have it, as it's the only known professionally recorded live version where Plant's voice still allows him to sing the original melody and hit the original notes. And it's a great performance.
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I'm really liking the alt version of Friends from the Record Store Day single.
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There are some early copies of Zep II with "LH" in the matrix instead of "RL" on one or both of the sides. In 2016 a discogs member emailed about this with Robert Ludwig himself, and here's what he wrote - the discogs member's preface is first, followed by Ludwig:
[Discogs member:] I wrote Robert Ludwig in the last week and he wrote me back. All the versions from sterling are the same hot mix. The subtle variances between them are all simply from the slight differences in making a hand-made analog lacquer disc, at least one of which was sent to all the pressing plants at the time. The CTH plant got a lacquer that was half RL and half LH (Lee Hulko, his partner) but was of the SAME MIX AND MASTER, based on RL's notes. THEY ARE ALL THE SAME, aside from subtle variances and should be valued the SAME no matter who's initials are in the dead wax. They are all the same master from STERLING SOUND! Here is my reply from Robert Ludwig. Let this be the final word in this debate. Thanks!
[Ludwig:]Hi Jim,
I'm surprised about Lee Hulko's initials being on some of the parts. In all these years I had never come across any copies with his initials before.
When there were big orders of certain titles and there wasn't physically enough time for one person to crank out the lacquers as fast as the record company wanted, sometimes we would help each other out.
For instance, my initials might appear on a Beatles record that Lee mastered.
In every case, compared to now, those titles were relatively easy to master. Once one of us mastered an album and it was approved, we made careful notes, either one of us could cut it and it should come out the same. Back then, Lee and I shared the one room and worked different hours so it is possible one of the plants blew a part and needed a replacement right then with no delay.
So after I mastered the album (which Eddie Kramer & Atlantic approved) it was shipped to all the radio stations and the initial pressing was all from me and Sterling Sound.
Amhet Ertegun at Atlantic heard the album (which Eddie demanded be as hot as possible) and apparently it skipped on his daughters little turntable. Instead of calling us at Sterling and asking us to lower the level a little and telling us where it skipped, they had the disk cutters at Atlantic use my EQ'd cassette file copy and they cut it WAY lower than my original cut plus, in my opinion, it sounded dull and generally not very good sounding in comparison.
So all the disks that were played at the radio stations and all the initial pressings world wide came from me (and apparently Lee cut a part or two) and that was what "sold" the record and made it a hit. A year later, whenever I visited someone I would look at their Zeppelin II album to see if it was my cut or Atlantic's cut. It was easy to see by eye, the Atlantic cut ended much farther from the label and the grooves to the naked eye looked very conservative.So... sometimes you can find a "LH" cut for less money than the RL ones go for. According to the above, it might not sound identical to the RL, but it should sound very close and have the same basic sonic qualities that everyone loves.
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Great review!
The Blu-Ray stereo track does have a spoken intro to Dancing Days, although it's tracked at the end of What Is and What Should Never be, rather than at the beginning of Dancing Days.
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Very cool solution! I created a version of Whole Lotta Love with Mary Lou added back in, splicing Mary Lou from the 2003 DVD-A into the new HD file. Also pretty easy and took just a few minutes.
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8 hours ago, rebeldhipi said:
The new one is better.
The bass in What Is And What Should Never Be is a delight. Probably always was but the new remaster brings in up nicely.
Edited to add:
The booklet is really nice with great pictures i havent seen before.
Hello Marylou is cut and it works. From Lets Have A Party to Going Down Slow flows well.
Agreed on all counts. Would have loved to have Mary Lou again, but I have to admit I can see why Page might have cut it - the song flows more logically without it.
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7 hours ago, zeplz71 said:
The new remaster sounds better to me. Drums are clearer, better eq and can hear the bass better too.
Yep, definitely. Slightly more dynamic mastering, overloaded mid-bass nicely cut down, harshness basically gone. A series of small improvements that add up to a noticeably better listening experience, especially over the course of the full 2-1/2 hours.
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1 minute ago, Sticks of Fire said:
I’ll be happy it South Hampton gets a professional release ONLY if he releases the Japan shows and others as well
My feeling exactly.
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On 10/21/2017 at 2:55 PM, IpMan said:
Fact is, they wanted to go out on a high note with a strong performance. They rehearsed the shit outta this and it shows, for good or bad. Jimmy was of course playing the most conservatively I have ever heard him play which I found rather disappointing as well. Jimmy should have stretched out at least a bit more than he did but I can understand the apprehension due to the enormity of the gig. As everyone has pointed out already, everyone but Robert was looking at this show as the first gig of an upcoming tour whereby they would have returned to the old formula...everyone except for Robert that is.
One and done, time to hook back up with Ms. Krauss.
Good post. I would only add that Page played conservatively not only because of nerves, but also because he had a broken pinky and had to make do with 4 fingers on his strumming hand. And as much as Page rightfully gets criticized these days for always promising to play or make an album and never doing it, I think he deserves pretty much unlimited credit for playing a 2-hour Led Zeppelin show at age 63 with a broken finger and carrying it off to perfection.
As for songs selected or not selected for the show, I think we have some good clues as to the reasons:
- Achilles: It's one of just a few tracks (along with Immigrant Song) that Plant has trotted out as an example of what he does not want to go around playing in arenas anymore. So I think for him it's just too much of its time, mid to late '70s prog-inflected excess. And since they pretty much had to play Kashmir, In My Time of Dying, No Quarter, and Stairway, I also think they didn't want a 5th epic-length track.
- For Your Life: I think they did it precisely because they didn't have a song from Presence, and they didn't want to Achilles. Tea for One was out too because it's too duplicative of SIBLY. Of the remaining tracks, FYL arguably is the heaviest and the best fit with the rest of the set. And it allowed them to embrace the spirit of Zep doing new/unexpected things live, since as noted above the actual playing and improvisation was no where near the experimental level of the band in the '70s.
- Acoustic tracks: I think they wanted a relatively compact, tight set, and doing the acoustic stuff requires a lot of changeover in instruments, and it requires them to move around on stage and possibly sit in chairs. Not worth it for just one track, and they didn't want to stretch out the set or stall the energy and momentum by doing, say, three acoustic tracks. I think they were probably afraid that if they slowed things down for that, they might not be able to recapture the energy for the final third of the show.
- Over the Hills: Definitely never going to happen. Plant hasn't been able to hit the high notes since mid-1972.
- All My Love: I would guess Plant didn't want to do such a personally emotional song on a night that was a tribute/charity performance for Ertegun. Plus I'd be surprised if Plant wanted to inject a ballad into a Zep reunion show like that. And Page certainly wouldn't have objected since he never liked the song anyway.
- In the Evening: Yeah, I have no idea why they didn't play it. It does require some whammy-bar acrobatics and that couldn't have been easy for Page with one finger out of commission. But I'm guessing it just didn't make the cut - had they played 18 or 19 songs instead of 16, I'm guessing ITTOD would've been represented, and In the Evening likely would've been the song to do that.
- Houses of the Holy: Also no idea, but I think it's just a weaker song than anything else they played. And I'm thrilled they didn't play it, because Plant subsequently flogged it to death in the Band of Joy era.
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49 minutes ago, ohjimmy said:
Record store day release surprise I'm guessing.
Since Feb 27 is exactly one week before the full RSD release list comes out, your guess is a good one IMHO - Zep might want to get a jump on the full announcement so they don't get lost in the shuffle.
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Here it is:
https://www.discogs.com/Led-Zeppelin-Led-Zeppelin-II/release/11309572
Looks to be legit! Discogs has two entries for the single-LP (non-deluxe), European pressing of the Zep II 2014 reissue. One of them has Living Loving Maid on the label, and the other one has Living Loving Wreck. The two pressings appears to be identical in almost every other respect, except the etching in the runout groove for Side B on the Living Loving Maid one is BD 16357-01 B1, while the etching on the Living Loving Wreck one is BD 16357-01 B1 3Ḻ (no idea what that little line under the L is about). Also, the red and green labels have some slightly different catalogue-number info and copyright info on them.
There are two variations of the US/Canada pressing too, but while both of those also have slight variations on the labels, both of them say Living Loving Maid.
I have no idea how rare or common your version is, but very cool - nice pickup!
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5 hours ago, brothercrossthewater2112 said:
hi guys,
my vinyl copy of led zeppelin 2(remaster) says "living loving wreck(shes just a woman)" on the label. i know that the first pressings had that aswell, but the mistake was soon fixed. do the remasters have that as a tribute or do have a super rare copy? the title on the gatefold has the correct spelling.
I don't have the standalone vinyl, only the Super Deluxe box. I just checked mine, and it says "Maid" not "Wreck" on the label of both the original album and the companion disc.
That's very interesting! Perhaps they did it intentionally as an Easter Egg on a few copies. Are you 100% sure you don't have a bootleg/unofficial copy? I know Russian pressings of the reissues are all over the place and they have some small variations from the true official pressings.
If you could post the runout matrix info scratched into the runout groove of your LP, that would help. Thanks!
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I agree 100% as well - best that there was no reunion tour, reputation/legacy intact.
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Missed this thread when it first started - it's an interesting one though.
To each their own of course. But I'm a little surprised that In My Time of Dying even was mentioned, let alone the impetus for the entire thread. It's one of my very favorite Zep tracks, and on the available recordings the band plays it well most of the time - in fact, of all the longer tracks they played from '75 onwards, it might be the most consistently well-performed.
As for which tracks I tend to skip, I must admit that I skip Moby Dick a lot, and often the Noise Solo too. Sometimes I also skip partway into the '77 versions of White Summer if Page is having an off night, although I don't skip it entirely because the final couple of minutes are a really cool intro to Achilles. And while some of those very long 1977 No Quarters are cool, a lot of them are... not so much. So I skip those if it's not a strong night for that song.
I also tend to skip Kashmir, Hot Dog, and White Summer when listening to the 1980 shows, because they f*** up Kashmir with alarming frequency on that tour, and by my count Page nails the Hot Dog solo exactly once (6-21 Rotterdam), and White Summer exactly never, out of the 14 shows on that tour .
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XLD, hands down:
http://tmkk.undo.jp/xld/index_e.html
https://sourceforge.net/projects/xld/
It's free, easy to use, and will convert pretty much any audio file format to any other audio file format. It also burns CDs, so you can just load up your FLAC files and burn them to CD from XLD without converting them to WAV (or anything else) first.
XLD also can convert the files so you can put them in iTunes, and then burn them from there. (Though for iTunes you'll be better off converting them to Apple Lossless than to WAV - smaller file size, and better tagging/artwork functionality.)
XLD also can rip CDs, and it can do so securely, guaranteeing 100% bit-accurate rips (or notifying you when there's an error), something iTunes cannot do.
Hope this helps!
Led Zeppelin 50th Anniversary
in News
Posted
The only reason you're surprised JPJ wasn't there is because you're not mad at him, and you are mad at Plant.
Agree 100%..