Christopher Lees
-
Posts
252 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by Christopher Lees
-
-
It's hard to pick just one because it can change with my mood, but I would have to go for Osaka 71 or Blueberry Hill 70.
There are some great shows in 75 and 77 but the problems with those shows is either Plant's lower range or Page's erratic playing. For instance, a very popular on is Eddie, but Plant's using his B voice, not his A+ voice (Honolulu 70'), and Page, while being in good form for 77' isn't as sharp as in his best shows from the early days. Another show I love is Nassau 75', but for the same reasons I guess I couldn't choose it as my favorite. I have a hard time understanding how people can choose shows from 75-80 as their all time favorites given Plant's harsh limitations and Jimmy's inability to play like he did in 71-73. One thing about the later shows though is that the set lists are big and varied. We get to hear some of the great songs from the later days.
-
Amazing cover of Carouselambra by Randy Jackson (Zebra). He does this solo, singing and playing on a 12 string. Brilliant rendition!
-
22 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:
I have some ITTOD guitar tracks, but they're not as sloppy as the II tracks.
Where to find these? I need to hear the ITTOD guitar tracks! About the II tracks being sloppy, some may just be quick ideas he's getting down that he can work on later.
Another thing about Page being sloppy on the albums, is that sloppiness doesn't really exist unless it ruins the song. If you can isolate a guitar solo and hear some funky noises, that's one thing. But if those noises are inaudible in the mix, then they are meaningless. It's like if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one there to hear it, does it make a sound? Something like that. The albums were good enough to become legendary in their own time and then to pass the test of time decades later, so although one may identify imperfections, it seems an overreach to label them sloppy.
When I read the reviews of the concerts from 69 when Zeppelin was new, some reviews don't like Plant all that much, some do. Some mention Bonham and say things like he's loud but not particularly inventive (I know, go figure!), but all of them mention Jimmy Page and say that he is an extraordinarily fine guitarist, a virtuoso. They didn't say, "Meh, he's just okay". They didn't say he was "kinda sloppy". This idea of Page being sloppy came about in the 80s (perhaps in the late 70s when he played some bad shows) when everyone was obsessed with speed exercise playing (some call it shredding), which has very little to do with real music. Page was playing real music that also happened to be something of a controlled chaos. He was the author of a brand new way of making music. It was an original and new framework with which he could add his solos. He played solos with a producer's mindset, not a guitarists mindset, as he was big-picture oriented and no minutiae oriented. Those people who go on and on about Page being sloppy are swamped in minutiae and can't see the forest through the trees. -
In the early days, Jimmy was pretty stationary on stage, focusing on his playing. Then, starting in 73 and especially in 75-77, Jimmy and the rest of the band, started to move around a lot more. They wanted to up their stage presence. I think I read that in the Jimmy Page biography that came out about 10 years ago, if I'm not mistaken. It was excerpted from an interview. So that means more show boating, dropping the guitar down even lower, using your arms in a theatrical manner and focusing on movement and showmanship. When you do that, the playing suffers, but Jimmy wasn't hung up on the super-anal perfectionist critiques that would appear in the future. He was hung up entirely on the moment, delivering something exciting in the present, and that includes the visual aspect. Of course we can't explain away all of Jimmy's slop on this. He was also drunk, on hard drugs and without proper sleep. You can't play drunk. You can't play floating around on heroin. Put it all together and you get Page Slop in 75-80.
-
16 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:
Thanks. Glad to see people enjoy the "warts and all" side of the band. 1980 wasn't terrible but you can almost tell that the guys were getting burnt out playing the same songs for 12 years. All in all I'd almost put 1980 on par with 1975 as far as performances go.
Once I got over the shock of hearing how sloppy Jimmy played in 75 vs how laser sharp he was in 73 (Europe, NYC), and how Plant croaked like a frog and couldn't hit a note to save his life, I started to like 75. They reached some great peaks with NQ, Dazed and Stairway as well as some great improvs on Trampled and Sick Again. I think the 80 tour was pretty far below the 75 tour, but then again, it was a totally different kettle of fish too. The 80 tour had the songs cut down to size (Plant wanted that) and the 20 minute improvs were gone. That was probably a good idea. Just listen to the Stairway solo in Berlin, which was long and indulgent but also terrible in my opinion, and you can imagine that a whole concert like that would have been horrible. I remember when I got the Berlin boot back in high school (late 80s, early 90s). I had it in my hands all day at school and couldn't wait to get home to hear it. At this point, Jimmy could do no wrong. He was my hero. It was a hell of a thing to face the facts when listening to this for the first time. I just couldn't get over how uninspired he sounded. It was awful. I think the 80 tour stays all by itself in last place. Zeppelin had a lot of bad concerts from 75 onward. It's the truth.
-
Fascinating insights and opinions on this song! For me, Four Sticks was always a so-so song sandwiched in between two great tunes, Misty and GTC. Fast forward 30 years and I have a greater appreciation for it. The vocals are awesome especially at the end. With good headphones on I get this image of Morroco or India or somewhere out there with these big hills or mountains, and the mysterious voice just echoing poignantly through the valley. I'm in a band and we cover this tune. It's a lot of fun to play and it sounds great live and loud. It's definitely a unique song, and while it may not be Zeppelin's best, it is still Zeppelin. We can't overlook these tunes and still understand Zeppelin as a whole. Fact is, this tune, Candy Store Rock, Carouselambra, Hot Dog and others are Zeppelin tunes and make up the reality that is Led Zeppelin. They liked these songs enough to put them on the albums! Also, Four Sticks has this sound of controlled chaos which is a nice contrast to the serene GTC. Zeppelin liked to arrange their songs according to contrast for dramatic effect, and it worked.
-
Just more of the same from Plant. For 35+ years now he's had a stick up his ass about anything related to Zeppelin. And it doesn't really matter if he can "relate" to the lyrics anymore. His personal feelings don't matter because it's a song, with melody, harmony, structure and imagery. It's for the people's enjoyment. It's not supposed to be his little comfort doggie.
-
Oh don't make me, don't make me, don't make me, don't make me, don't make me lose it!
-
Hitting on the MOONSHINE, rocking in the grain.
Oh don't make me, don't make me, don't make me, don't make me, don't make me lose it!
Sing loud for the sunshine
Pray hard for the rain.
-
1 - Black Mountain Side
2 - Moby Dick
3 - Hats Off to Roy Harper
4. Battle of Evermore
HOTH - The Rain Song
Physical - Sick Again
Presence - Candy Store Rock
ITTOD - Caraselambra
Coda - Wearing and Tearing
-
What's the earliest show with this tune in the WLL medley? First time I heard it was on the BBC session back in the 80s. I've heard it played on 9-14-71 and a few other dates in 71, but it seems to me that the BBC sessions (April, 1971) may be the earliest date. Any thoughts?
-
I just came across the Grame Remaster of this excellent 75 show and I have to say it sounds fantastic! Among others, this show has my favorite versions of Kashmir, The Rain Song, No Quarter, Dazed, Trampled and Stairway, but the Whole Lotta Love middle section is outstanding too with JPJ really funking it up! According to me ears, Jimmy plays as well in this show as any show from 73. I'm not a real big fan of 75 shows and rather prefer earlier Zeppelin, but on more than one occasion, when trying show people the greatness of Jimmy Page's live playing, I've turned to this show to do it and played them NQ, Dazed and Stairway to make my point.
-
Your guitar playing is excellent and has great tone too. What are you using for fx? Amps?
-
On 6/9/2018 at 1:49 AM, strombringer101 said:
in my opinion they could have cut the length of NQ and play more tracks off Presence, imagine hearing "Hot's on for No where" "candy store Rock".
I'd rather hear another 5 minutes of NQ than Candy Story Rock, that's for sure. I'm learning not to hate that song nowadays, but it's a work in progress. Your point is taken though; it would have been okay if they shortened NQ a bit so we could hear some other cool songs. I would like to have heard The Rover and Houses of the Holy in 75-77. I could see them alternating NQ with In the Light too.
My top 5 No Quarters as of today:
1. TSRTS
2. 2-14-75
3. 5-18-75
4. 3-27-75
5. 3-21-75 -
I find this offstage stuff very interesting too, and I thank the poster who started this thread. It was a great read!.
-
On 1/23/2012 at 8:21 PM, TheStairwayRemainsTheSame said:
Robert aged 10 years between July 19 73 and when this photo was taken in 1977. He looks a lot older here. In the song remains the same he still looks like a kid and in this picture he definitely looks over 30.
-
On 4/29/2019 at 7:15 AM, SteveAJones said:
I invite you to read my post. I really have nothing further to say about it.
I read your post, and it doesn't say how you know. That's why I asked you, "How do you know?"
But I haven't gotten an answer, which suggests that there isn't a good answer, and I'm fine leaving it at that.
-
7 hours ago, SteveAJones said:
Like I said, It was a hard slap to the face, not a punch and there are witnesses. If you consider this "all dried up" then suit yourself.
How do you know?
-
20 hours ago, CherrySunburstWorshiper said:
Nowhere because it never happened. Like Paul Rodgers never karate kicked Jimmy on stage for showing up on smack during a Firm concert either. Like Jimmy would do a follow up album with a guy after he put his hands on him, puh-lease! I don't know how people get their rocks off, but I've heard a lot of ridiculousness. Go to youtube and you can watch many, many, many 95 performances. Little Rock must be the only bad one or these posters just don't get this type of live music. Maybe they want sterilized album versions, I don't know. But I saw P&P at MSG in July of 98 then a week or 2 later at Jones Beach. MSG was only ok because the sound bounces off of everything and during Jimmy's shredding it was awful. The PA is coming from behind while the amp is coming from the front, ugh! But that's not Jimmy, that's Madison Square Garden hosting real live music with massive wattage amps. i was sitting pretty close to front row so i had it bad, would have been better to sit in the nosebleeds where the amp doesn't reach fully for those parts. Jones Beach Amphitheatre? Freakin amazing. A natural course for the sound to be pushed, no need for a PA and again, you can see it on yutube. The MSG actually sounds better on the bootleg than it did when I was there and I suspect Little Rock would as well. Jones Beach is exactly how I remember it. But there's a book "When Giants Walked the Earth" written by a reporter with close access to Plant over the post LZ years. He rags on Page quite a bit and if that story were true, it would have been in there. Plant's a Hippie. I mean that it a good way, he would never lay hands on anything, let alone Jimmy.
I agree with everything you wrote here. I can't see Plant smacking Jimmy, although he and Bonzo used to smack each other back in the day, hippies or not. That's when they were very young though. I can't see a 50 year old Plant punching poor Jimmy in the face. But who knows, maybe it did happen. All I wanted to know was where these posters got their information and how they know it is true. I pushed the point few times and they all dried up, which suggests it's nothing more than a rumor.
-
Zeppelin in 77 was like Muhammad Ali in 77. Still the world champions but just a shadow of their former selves, albeit with moments of genius flashing through here and there. Although the members of Zeppelin were still very young in 77, being between 29 and 33 years old or so, there's still no way to fake the genuineness of the youthful exuberance they displayed between 69-73. They got lazy, they were doing too much dope, drinking too much and screwing around too much.
People talk about whatever happened to Robert's voice after 72, but I think Jimmy's playing suffered a decline just as steep, if not more. Robert did recover some voice in 77, but he still sounded like he was shouting a lot rather than singing, and I don't really go for that. If Plant still sang in 77 like he did in 71, then we could handle Jimmy slopping around. Likewise, if Jimmy kept improving like he did from 68-73, then 77 would be really interesting even if Plant still had his vocal troubles. But with both of them in post Thrilla in Manila mode, it makes 77-80 difficult for a true fan. It takes a special talent as a fan and listener to learn not to be majorly disappointed with 77-80 gigs, and indeed even 75 gigs. One has to really be of the mind to look for the silver lining in the dark cloud to find a way to appreciate most of the shows in 77-80 (and 75).
If Jimmy wasn't a heroin addict and had the character and drive to practice his guitar all the time, like a professional musician should, from 73 onward, he would have easily maintained his killer technique and overall feel from Europe 73 and MSG 73, but instead, he got rich, spoiled and lazy, and the playing showed. It's part of being human, all too human as Nietzsche might say.
Plant couldn't help his voice giving out I don't think. It's not like he was lazy so his voice turned to shit. It's just that there was some kind of physical problem. It's a shame, but that's life. -
The Rain Song
-
1. Led Zeppelin IV
2. Houses of the Holy
3. Led Zeppelin I
4. Led Zeppelin II
5. Physical Graffiti
6. Led Zeppelin III
7. In Through The Out Door
8. Presence
9. Coda -
3 hours ago, kingzoso said:
Tonight Dallas' Get the Led Out featured "The Rover", "Immigrant Song" and "Down By the Seaside".
Tonight, Portland ME 102.9 WBLM's get the led out featured "In My Time of Dying", "Celebration Day" and "Moby Dick"
-
On 3/22/2019 at 8:52 PM, Sultan of Swing said:
WBIG 100.3 on Two-for Tuesdays will play a big Zep song (Immigrant song, stairway, heartbreaker) and then a REAL Zep song I've heard Tangerine, The Ocean, When the Levee Breaks, The Rover!!! Sometimes they will just play another biggie and that makes me furious. Also, just a side, I never knew Kashmir was big, and when I heard it on the radio I was surprised and I loved it, but now its always stuck in my head.
What town/city is WBIG 100.3 based out of?
Nitpicking Page 1980
in Led Zeppelin Live
Posted
Agreed. I haven't listened to Zurich or Fankfurt in many years (maybe 15) but I remember being pleasantly surprised at both of these shows. It had me thinking, if only for a moment, that Zeppelin wasn't too bad in 80 after all. I haven't heard all the shows from the 80 tour, but I was distinctly unimpressed with what I had heard so far, until Zurich and Frankfurt. I think their version of Money is great too. I will listen to these two soon enough, but actually, I just got done listening to July 5th for the first time ever and it was a great show, especially for 1980! Really strong performance, especially from Plant, but Page also.
I noticed you can't bring yourself to give them an honest grading
Botched intro, botched ending, Plant sounding rough, "I've heard worse" and then give them a "B" anyway? Or, you give them a grade sometimes like "An 'A' for 1980" and I know what you mean, but you're not being brutally honest! I know it's tough because I have this inner dialogue with myself all the time, which is why I get some chuckles out of this. If everything is an A or B (with the odd C+ thrown in) then the A's and B's lose their essence. It's like when everyone wins a trophy lols.
We need to be honest about this and unafraid. We need to thinking critically and keep our biases in check, lest we award a B when it should be a C-. If we can agree that an A+ is something like, say, the WLL from Osaka 71 and an A+ solo from Jimmy (being clean and fast) is Heartbreaker from 9-14-71, then what we would consider an A- is still pretty close to perfection! If we backslide from there just a wee bit to a B+, it should still be totally awesome. See where I'm going with this? I guess what I'm getting at is an objective standard where WLL from Osaka 71 is graded on the same scale as NFBM from Zurich. Just my two cents and none too serious. All the same, I enjoy reading these concert descriptions with a focus on Page.