[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

Hello Cecil,

Swandown may be able to nail this one a bit better as far as the specifics but basically it is the name of someone who was involved in the manufacturing of the album on vinyl.

Steve is correct. It just means that the record was mastered by Strawberry Studios. Other records carried the inscription of "PECKO DUCK" or "PORKY" (because they were mastered by George Peckham). Jimmy had nothing to do with those inscriptions.

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

Point 1: According to Chris Welch's book 'Power & Glory', Robert proceeded to the studio intent on recording a cover version of 'Incense' by The Angelos but CBS had other ideas for the session. I believe my original post is consistent with Welch and this refers to his

first session.

In Plant's 2005 "Uncut" magazine interview, he says "I wanted to do 'Incense' by the Anglos. But they gave me ballads. They were trying to market me as a blue-eyed soul singer like Long John Baldry. I was embarrassed about it."

I'm inclined to think that the ballad reference was to "Our Song".

Point 2: According to Chris Welch's book 'Power & Glory' as well as 'John Bonham: A Thunder of Drums' John Bonham joined Robert Plant in The Band of Joy in Summer 1967

Here's my convoluted theory: Kevyn Gammond was in the Shakedown Sound just prior to joining the Band Of Joy, and I recall reading somewhere that he had been with the group through September 1967. So that means that the "classic" Band Of Joy lineup (Plant/Bonham/Gammond/Lockey/Brown) came together in September, right? But, Paul Lockey says that Bonham wasn't the first drummer in this lineup. So he must have joined sometime afterwards.

Then again, band lineups were hardly stable in these days, so it's quite possible that Gammond could have played with both bands in the summer & fall of 1967.

Point 3:According to Chris Welch's book 'Power & Glory', Robert Plant and The Band of Joy recorded 8-track demos at Regent Sound Studios in London (circa March '68); 'Adriatic Sea View' & 'Sweet Mary', 'Hey Joe', 'What's That Sound?'.

Hmmm. Very interesting. Did Welch really get the wrong title for Buffalo Springfield's "For What It's Worth"? That would make me wonder if he got the wrong title for "Sweet Mary" as well. Or perhaps it was a cover of the Leadbelly song? And he doesn't mention "Dagger/Memory Lane", which Robert has mentioned in at least 2 interviews.

Welch states Robert cut some demos as a solo vocalist around the same time, to

include a cover of Elvis Presley's 'One Night'.

This must be the Denny Cordell demos mentioned by Dave Lewis' "A Celebration". Interesting that Robert would record the same song with Zep 5 years later.

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

There has been speculation that "Zacron" is a psuedonym for Page himself - is there any proof that Zacron exists?

He's been running his own website (zacron.com) for several years now. He even sells autographed reprints of the 3rd album cover.

Here's a picture of Zacron playing the flute while Jimmy strums some kind of dulcimer-type instrument:

http://www.zacron.com/view-item.asp?iid=82

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

Robert Plant's CBS Records Recording Contract

Steve, a few questions/corrections:

1. I thought Plant wanted to record "Incense" as the second single (not the first)?

2. I thought Bonham didn't join the Band Of Joy until much later, possibly as late as January 1968.

3. What's your source for the song "Sweet Mary"? I only know of "Adriatic Sea View", "Hey Joe" and "For What It's Worth", plus an unreleased song known as "Memory Lane" or "Dagger Lane".

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

Plant received no songwriting credits on Led Zeppelin I because of contractual obligations to CBS, but to claim that he had no involvement in the lyrics prior to 'Thank You' is highly dubious at best.

As a purely impartial observer here, I would say that this is an accurate statement. It's also worth noting that the revised credits for BIGLY and Baby Come On Home both credit Plant as co-writer, and ASCAP and the 2002 Atlantic Records lawsuit both credit Plant as co-writer for all the original songs on the first album.

Also, John Paul Jones was recently quoted as saying something to the effect of "Every lyric in every song was written by Plant". Personally I don't believe that to be true, but it's worth noting regardless.

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

I believe you may have misread something.

I recall two quotes in a similar vein, although they had different contexts:

1. there was some initial uncertainty about Plant, but the fears were eased by the time the first album was recorded.

2. there was some concern that Plant wouldn't be able to handle being the primary lyricist, but those concerns were eliminated when Plant wrote "Thank You"

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

Will Shade's BS Ripoff Cospiracy part 3

According to Wikipedia, the Yarbirds version was entitled "Knowing I'm Losing You" (?) and the lyrics are completely different except for the verse that begins "Measuring a summers day". This would imply that the chorus is completely original. Sounds like a different tune to me. Of course, none of us can properly attest to this because the song has never been released. Could be a polka and none of us would know. Though lacking in evidence Shade is happy to take the worst possible interpretation- no surprise there.

Actually, the song surfaced a little over a year ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-gSHihi7lE

The "measuring a summer's day" lyric was indeed carried over to "Tangerine", but the rest of the lyrics (including the chorus) are different. And there is no proof that Keith Relf wrote any of those lyrics.

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

First of all, there is a very good chance this is a traditional. Certainly, Page and Plant picked it up from Joan Baez, who credited it as a traditional.

If Anne Briggs has a beef with anyone, it's her.

Actually, Anne Briggs had nothing -- repeat, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING -- to do with BIGLY. Not ever. Will Shade was completely wrong here.

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

Could someone detail how Coda was pieced together?

I'm not sure what they were thinking. The 3 songs from 1978 were basically complete, along with "Bonzo's Montreux" and "Poor Tom". But I have no explanation for Jimmy's decision to overdub "Walter's Walk" and the Royal Albert Hall recording of "We're Gonna Groove". It would have made more sense to use "Hey Hey What Can I Do" or one of the BBC recordings, but maybe he felt that he didn't want to "cheat" the fans by releasing songs that were already publicly available?

Was Walter's Walk "the slog" or Slush or whatever the lost track was from the Houses sessions?

No. "Slush" was most likely "The Rain Song" or TSRTS. And "The Slog" was just a made-up bootleg title.

Robert had to record a vocal track to Walter's Walk in 1982, right?

Yes.

Did JPJ have anything to do with any of this?

I don't know.

Also, does anyone know exactly why 'Baby Come On Home' wasn't included on LZ I? Was it a running time issue? Why do you think it wasn't put onto Coda originally? How could it have been completely forgotten all that time?

I think it was left off for 3 reasons:

1. it was so different from the tone of the rest of the album. Much more soulful. I think they were concerned about being compared to Vanilla Fudge.

2. it has the least-prominent guitar part of all the songs from the 1st album sessions

3. the writing credit. They knew that they wouldn't be able to get away with crediting themselves for the song (since the original was just 3 1/2 years old). And they didn't want to share credit.

As for why it was forgotten......supposedly the master tape was lost until it surfaced in an Olympic Studios garbage can c. 1991. I guess everyone had just forgotten about the song (no one ever mentioned it in any interview prior to 1993), which is a shame because IMO it's one of the best songs they ever recorded.

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

Lost in Space was an impromptu jam session with Page, Jones & Bonzo messing around with Jeff Beck's Starcycle

"Star Cycle" was released in June 1980, 10 years after the date associated with "Lost In Space" and long after the last known Zep studio session. Any chance you could provide a source to bolster your claim?

Thanks.

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

Which Dave Lewis book ?? and is Ross halfin a bit of a joker then ???

"St. Tristan's Sword" is originally mentioned in "The Concert File". It's listed as having been recorded c. 1970 and considered for the 4th album. Personally, the song title doesn't sound to me like something Plant would have written lyrics for. I have wondered if the song was actually the unreleased "all piano piece" that Jimmy mentioned in a 1970 interview.

"Lost In Space" was first mentioned by Ross Halfin in his 11/23/04 diary entry:

"Jimmy Page rang this morning telling me he's found a load of outtakes including a song with John Paul Jones singing, called 'Lost In Space'..."

Now, maybe Ross was just joking; maybe he wasn't. But the song was also mentioned in (I think) the re-print of "The Concert File" (or was it another Dave Lewis Book??), where it was listed as a "Physical Graffiti" outtake.

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

Frank (?), what in the hell are you talking about?

Edit: Such songs have NEVER been released and I for one am skeptical of their existence at all. If you can provide substantiation to the contrary, please do!

Ross Halfin mentioned "Lost In Space" in his diary....but knowing Ross he could have just been joking around. "St. Tristan's Sword" is mentioned in one of Dave Lewis' books. Neither is confirmed to be a 4th album outtake, however.

Neither song has surfaced among collectors, though.

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

In August or September 1968 John Paul Jones was hired for a session with U.K. singer P.J. Proby who was recording an album at Landsdowne Studios in London. John got

the other three members of Zeppelin in on the session as it was good money to be made. From what I recall Robert Plant's voice does not appear on that album; he was simply there. I know it may not make sense for him to have been there if he wasn't going to sing but John said Robert was there.

Robert played harmonica on one track, and he may have played percussion on other tracks. (Said Jones in a 2002 interview: "Someone said, 'Oh, you need a percussionist.' I said, 'Oh, I've got this guy.' Someone said, 'Oh, he doesn't look like a session tambourine player,' and I was like, 'Oh, no, don't worry. He's great. He's really good.' (laughs) That's what we did.")

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

October 19 1968 Sat Liverpool, England Liverpool University

Reported IN THE PRESS as last appearance of Yardbirds…Page will stay to form Led Zeppelin

And that's another thing. If Dreja truly did file a successful cease-and-desist order, then why were they allowed to perform as The Yardbirds on October 19? Wouldn't the press report have stated something to the effect of "Due to legal action, tonight's concert will be billed as Led Zeppelin instead of The Yardbirds..."?

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

Insofar as this so called cease and desist order that Chris Dreja alegedly claims to have filed against Jimmy Page, therby compelling him to change the name, be it known that

said document has never been entered as evidence in any public forum.

Here's what cracks me up about the alleged "cease and desist order":

CHRIS DREJA HAD NO LEGAL AUTHORITY -- AND NO INCENTIVE -- TO FILE A LAWSUIT!!

1. Relf & McCarty gave permission to Page & Dreja to use the "Yardbirds" name through September 1968.

2. that agreement expired on September 30.

3. therefore, Dreja's rights to file a lawsuit also expired on September 30.

Why would Dreja file a lawsuit in October? He no longer had permission to use the Yardbirds name anyway!! That's like Pete Best filing lawsuits on behalf of The Beatles.

The only "entity" that could have sued Jimmy in October 1968 was "The Yardbirds" corporation.

Besides, if Dreja wanted to sue then he would have sued in August when he was kicked out of the band. Suing in October makes no sense at all, especially when you consider the fact that Dreja took the photo on the back of the first Zep album cover!! Do you really think Jimmy would have used that photo if Dreja had sued him???

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

Hey Steve, I got another one for you:

Is it true that Jimmy Page once jammed with Harry Connick Jr.? And if so, did Jimmy actually play the piano that night??

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

As I understand it, he actually does have subtantial documentation of his session years.

It makes sense; he needed to have it to ensure he was being paid and credited properly?

I think that Jimmy remembers a lot more than he has ever let on -- and I believe (hope?) that someday Jimmy will reveal it all.

But I tend to doubt that his own documentation is very thorough. There were no official records kept -- everyone involved wanted to perpetuate the myth that the artists played on their own records. The only person who would have documented the personnel would have been the "fixer" who hired them -- and he really had no incentive to keep track.

Plus, the session musicians were always paid in cash (again, to protect the artists).

As for Jimmy, I would imagine that he kept track of every single session within the first year or so (1963-64), especially the songs that became hits. But by 1965 it was becoming more and more of a "job" to him....and the guitar solo was going "out of vogue"....and the songs were less interesting....and the sessions were becoming more of a blur. I bet he stopped caring by then.

But I would pay a LOT of money to see whatever documentation that Jimmy as.

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

I'm familiar with his connection to Kellerman, but have not seen that document until now. It's going to take me some time to figure it out. The quick answer to your main

question is that I believe Spicer's recollections to be accurate. I believe Jimmy went

to Art School from 1960 onward, for about 18 months COLLECTIVELY, during and

after which he started doing studio work. Here's a data dump (it won't go into this forum properly formatted) for Page 1944-1964. It's not complete, just a rough outline:

Steve,

Lots of interesting info here. I've got a few things to add...

the 1950s Huw Wheldon appearance - my semi-educated guess is that this was recorded between late-1957 and mid-1958 (based on Jimmy's apparent age and the timeframe for skiffle becoming popular in the U.K.).

joining Red Lewis' band - I know that Jumbo Spicer says Jimmy joined sometime around April 1959, but other sources have indicated that he didn't join until much later in 1959. Also, I've read conflicting reports about the stage name that Jimmy used (Nelson Storm, Elmer Twitch, Jimmy Price).

Neil Christian demo - I'm pretty sure that this took place sometime after October 1960, as one of the songs that they recorded (Johnny Kidd's "Restless") had been released in September.

recording with Brian Howard - I don't think Jimmy played on Howard's 1962 single "Somebody Help Me", because the timeline doesn't quite work (Page met Howard at the "Diamonds" session, which was c. October 1962 -- by which time "Somebody Help Me" had already been recorded).

the 1965 "British Percussion" album - this was recorded 2/23/65, in between sessions for French singer Eddy Mitchell (hence the reason why the album was credited to the "London All Stars" -- a moniker that Mitchell gave to his backing band).

I'd love to see copies of Jimmy's school transcripts........

[Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones]

Hey Steve, I've got one for you:

WHEN, EXACTLY, DID JIMMY PAGE ATTEND ART SCHOOL?

The "common" story was that Jimmy enrolled at Sutton Art College (does this place exist anymore?) shortly after leaving Neil Christian & The Crusaders in 1962. However, there is handwritten evidence from Jimmy himself (link) that he did not enroll in school until September 1963:

"In September I am going to Art School which will probably come as a surprise to you. But the truth of the matter is that lately all I want to do is paint and make sculptures so I want to further my education in Art."

Now, I suppose that Jimmy could have meant that he was returning to art school.....but then why not write "In September I am going back to Art School"?

And while I'm at it, here's another question for the Zepophiles:

WHEN, EXACTLY, DID JIMMY PAGE PLAY WITH NEIL CHRISTIAN?

Again, the traditional lore tells us that Jimmy played with Neil Christian for about 18 months from 1960 to early 1962. However, fellow bandmember Jumbo Spicer is on the record as stating that Jimmy joined much earlier than that -- as early as March 1959. Add 18 months to that and you end up with September 1961. And that begs the question: what was Jimmy doing from September 1961 to September 1963?

Well?