mstork
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Posts posted by mstork
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14 hours ago, IpMan said:
Correct, but according to Curbishley Page received a greater share than the others when he sold his right's in the 80's because he was the producer. Thus, why should he get a second bite at the same apple? Sorry, but to me that does not seem fair. Curbishley did for Page & the boys what they could not do on their own, since Page received the larger payout originally, everything should have been split equally, four ways, going forward.
Agree to disagree. As long as they are making money off the music of LED Zeppelin, and he was the producer of that music, he should get a larger share IMO. He put more into it back then and he still does today for that matter.
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To be fair, Jimmy was entitled to a little larger cut than the others as Producer, what's wrong with that? You can't say this guy is one of the great producers in rock history (he is), and hold the opinion that he shouldn't get a little larger cut for that role now, can you? A producer can make or break a band and his value in that role to Zep is well documented.
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RIP Greg, thankful for the many great nights I spent enjoying his talents at the Beacon..
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16 hours ago, DogsoverLava said:
Well -- I'll say again -- what fibbery? And how do you draw that conclusion? In what way do you allow yourself to conclude that Zeppelin lied about anything here? What do you base that on? Are you disagreeing with what are now established facts? You can't just make a statement about lies without compelling evidence thereof. You shouldn't allow yourself the belief that there were lies without something compelling to support that belief. This isn't religion where you just get to believe whatever you want because of "feels"... Doing so is akin to being one of the long standing guys who have repeated ad nauseum over the years that Zeppelin watched Spirit perform "Taurus" live night after night --- turns out that was complete fiction - not only did they not really tour together, nor did Zeppelin ever really watch anyone who opened for them from the side of the stage, nor did Spirit ever play Taurus live ------- so give us something that we can either accept or argue against that has led you to believe there were lies from the Zeppelin camp.
Had a family dinner last night and my 27 year old nephew told me that Zep opened for Spirit for the first 5 years of their career (as if Zep opened for anyone for more than a few weeks)! I told him this is the problem with the internet, and Malofiy and company took full advantage of this climate to give Spirit's case a credibility it didn't deserve based largely on "generally accepted falsehoods."
My question is this; does the legal notion of "access" mean that Page/Plant did access Taurus and were familiar with it, or does it mean the had the means to access it and could have done so? I'll concede the latter but certainly not the former.
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3 minutes ago, GeorgeC said:
One new controversy arising from the trial is the press's insistence that the "myth" of STH being written at Bron-yr-aur has been "exploded." But I'm wondering, who's ever said that the song was completely written by Page and Plant in Wales? My understanding is that Page brought the earliest run-throughs of the song from Wales to Headley Grange, where it was more fully arranged with Jones and Bonham, and that the final recording was perfected at Island Studios in London, where Plant added his complete set of lyrics. So what's this "myth" of the work being created, music and words all, in the Welsh countryside?
I also didn't realize that early 70's interviews with the likes of Creem and the Trouser Press were under oath! ?
The Bron Yr Aur stories were better stories but completely irrelevant to the case anyway..
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Call the GTO's, party at the Rainbow! ?
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Good for Jimmy and Robert and good for the arts as far as I'm concerned. Back to chasing Philly ambulances and being a frustrated musician for Malofiy!
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As far as I'm concerned it has been well established that a descending scale as employed in Stairway goes back hundreds of years. Since Bach (at least), every manner of songwriter has put their spin on it. A ruling for the plaintiff would in effect mean that Randy California had the right to put his spin on it but Jimmy Page did not. And make no mistake, Page's inclusion of an ascending melody and artful resolution makes his very different from Taurus.
if you told me that Page had actually listened to Taurus and was inspired by it that would not effect my opinion that Randy C's estate should not get one thin dime out of this, let alone a writing credit. If they win Page would have to live another 100 years to sue all of the artists who were inspired by Zeppelin songs when writing their own music.
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Just now, Balthazor said:
It does strike me as a little odd that Jimmy can know with that degree of specificity exactly how many albums and CDs he's got, but not know what they are. Unless one day he decided to count them all without actually looking at them.
I'm guessing his lawyers asked him to tally it up because owning one album in a collection of 10,000 albums does not lead to the inevitable conclusion that he'd be intimately familiar with every single track.
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Denny Somach is the idiot who claimed Page ripped Communication Breakdown from Eddie Cochran's Nervous Breakdown, when the only thing the two songs have in common is the word "breakdown". He's a joke.
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6 hours ago, SteveAJones said:
I really don't have the words to express my respect for Sir George Martin. He was second to none as a music producer and quintessential English gentleman. He lived a full, wonderful life and leaves behind a grand legacy and phenomenal body of work. So hard to say farewell.
Agreed. I was fortunate enough to attend a speaking engagement he gave at the Count Basie Theater in Red Bank, NJ back in the late 90's to discuss the making of Sgt. Pepper. He was great, just the epitome of that early 60's English class, if James Bond had a record producer it would have been George Martin (and he kind of did as he produced Live and Let Die)!
RIP George, thoughts and prayers for his family and friends..
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1 minute ago, IpMan said:
Exactly, apples to avocados'. Very few people can maintain manual dexterity to such a degree over such a period even in excellent health. But hey, Jimmy slowing down his solos' in 2007 for a one-off must mean he can no longer cut the mustard on any professional musical level. Poor 63 year old Jimmy just can't live up to the expectations of some people who believe, like a machine or android, he should be able to negotiate the fretboard like a 28 year old. Then there is the possibility of a physical ailment as well. Not sure if most non-medically trained people are aware but if you break a bone, it will most likely become arthritic with age. To my knowledge, Jimmy has broken at least two fingers on his left hand during three separate occasions. Even minor breaks or fractures of such delicate bones can cause serious localized arthritic condition and thus affect dexterity. However this is all speculation, Jimmy may have arthritis, he may not. What Jimmy is however is a 72 year old man who must live within the limitations of his age.
As Kelly said, if we are to critique Jimmy's playing it must be within a limited time period to be fair.
I would also add that if you watch and listen to live Page, Clapton, and Beck in their primes, "manual dexterity" was a much bigger part of Jimmy's technique than the other two. Having said that, I'm with you; I've seen him play in person 11 times, most recently 2000, and he's never been less than great. Sometimes he's been transcendent.
There were enough highlights in the O2, including the soloing on GTBT, Trampled, and No Quarter, to leave me with no doubt that if that was the "warm up" show his playing would have gotten better and better as the tour (that never happened) continued as he'd hoped.
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4 hours ago, heavybluesfan said:
I was talking about something similar to this on a general music forum but wanted to find a more in depth discussion.
The first time I saw Led Zeppelin live was at Ally Pally in 1972 and I was blown away, especially by Jimmy. The next time I saw them live was at Knebworth in 1979 and I couldn't believe how bad Jimmy was. I don't mean sloppy or a bit off, but dreadful. Most of the solos had gone AWOL but he was also struggling with the absolute basics, such as an inability to form simple chords properly or even to keep time. Clearly something catastrophic had happened.
From the various sources I've read it would seem Jimmy's drug taking, more specifically, his heroin addiction, started to become a serious problem around 75/76. Jimmy himself says the excessive drug taking and general overindulgence was out of control by the time of the 73 US tour, but that it didn't have an effect on his playing until several years later. Either way, from the late 70s until the present day, Jimmy has been unable to reach anywhere near the standard he performed at in the early 70s. Drugs effectively destroyed a World class guitarist.
To illustrate his decline, here are 2 clips of The Song Remains The Same, the first from the 73 US tour, the second from Knebworth in 79:
US tour 73:
Here Jimmy displays World class brilliance. He's got the lot; speed, precision, originality and, above all, musicality. There are so many highlights but, for instance, there's the traditional style lead solo (ie, 2:48 to 2:57) but also a very original and rapid arpeggio solo (3:08 to 3:17).
Compare that with the same song from Knebworth 79:
Very sad. Jimmy is, quite simply, dreadful. All the lead solos have gone and he struggles even to play rudimentary chords, and when he attempts the arpeggio solo at 2:49 to 2:59 all he can manage is a succession of out of time bum notes and his laughter suggests he too realises how abysmal he is. 4:10 to 4:20 is embarrassingly bad, 4:34 to 4:40 even worse, as if someone has picked up a guitar for the first time and is just messing around.So, is Jimmy a sloppy player? No. He's worse than than that, but was brilliant until st least 1973. At the end of the day though he has given us some outstanding music and enriched our lives. That alone warrants extreme gratitude.
Good post but you're showing an abysmal TSRTS from '79 to basically represent his playing from 77 on as subpar and it's not nearly that simple. Check out any number of clips since then and it's clear that if 73 was a peak, 77-83 was the valley. There's still a lot of great live playing from Jimmy after he got off the drugs, the O2 version of TSRTS has nothing in common with Knebworth.
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Presumably because Keith's a massive fan of Chuck Berry, whom Peter Grant discusses having working with.
Ah, haven't listened all the way through yet. Thanks!
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Keith Richards should listen to this interview.
Why?
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I guess I was lucky because every time I saw Page live: Chicago 10th, 1977, 1985 W Firm in Phx, 1988 solo in Phx, 1995 & 98 P&P in Phx he was always an amazing player. In fact after all the talk of Page turning to shit as a player with the airing of the first ARMS gig in London in 83' I almost was going to skip the 85' Firm show...very glad I did not because his playing at that, and every other show I saw, was brilliant. Not saying Page did not have his bad nights or periods, I just think his live playing is scrutinized to a level no other guitarist in the history of music has been subjected to. Think about it, I have never heard about how EVH sucked live as a player at times yet I witnessed it myself twice, drunker than shit and made Page look brilliant at Tempe 77' by comparison yet this is rarely mentioned.
I agree 100%. I've seen him live 11 times, starting on the Outrider tour and ending with the Crowes at Jones Beach. He never let me down, ranging from pretty great to sublime. And he is absolutely scrutinized to a level beyond everyone else in my opinion. Clapton is rarely judged on his heroin era the way Page is on his. You can check any YouTube video of him playing live, including ones where he's undeniably great, and find some wanker(s) calling him "sloppy", etc., it's ridiculous.
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He stopped drinking, by his own admission in about 2000, and I reckon the O2 was his first sober gig in a very long time. I think he was 'managing' his alcoholism towards the end of the Page/Plant run, but I have a sneaky suspicion that his inability to cut the (excessive) booze out was one of the factors that led to the end of that collaboration (amongst other things...). Wasn't there a story of Plant punching Jimmy out for being drunk before a gig at some point during the P/P years?
That allegedly happened at the Philly gig in their first tour, I heard that from an unlikely source; my dad! He'd heard about it from some guys at work who knew someone who knew someone so I take it with a grain of salt, but I've heard that story elsewhere since so who knows. All I know is I saw them the very next night at the Meadowlands in NJ and something was off between the two of them. The next night Jimmy came out of his shell and blew the house down. Robert kissed him on the head after a raging TSRTS and they both smiled and it seemed all was forgiven, assuming there's truth to the story.
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Royal Orleans sounds like Plant impersonating Dr. John, very amusing!
And I'll echo everyone else on 10 Ribs, etc. That is a stunner, one of the reasons I love this band is their ability to surprise you with an "I didn't know they could do THAT" piece of music such as this one. It sounds like something elton John could have done, GOOD Elton John. And I love Page's complimentary acoustic rhythm playing and electric accents. Beautiful stuff.
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Brian Ray has been playing guitar and bass in Paul McCartney's band for years now, he's a good musician..
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It appears there were talks about reuniting The Firm back before the O2 if Chris Slade is to be believed...
"We were going to put it together again. There were talks between their people, our people, and other people and it was going to be put back together and then this tiny, lesser-known band called Led Zeppelin got back together and did their reunion which knocked it on the head. Who knows what will happen, never say never, it might happen."
-Chris Slade
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I prefer my barrister a bit more buttoned-up intellectual than hair-gelled, flash-suit showman.
Looks like he's enjoying an all night bender at Castle Dracula.
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Mick Wall, author of When Giants Walked the Earth, weighs in. Well said IMO:
So the bass player in Spirit is trying to sue Zeppelin because he says that the dreary, unheard of ‘Taurus’ was the big influence on ‘Stairway To Heaven’. What a load of money-grabbing bollocks. As I said on the BBC World Service yesterday, comparing the simplistic, instrumental ‘Taurus’ to the monolithic, groundbreaking and lyrically magnificent ‘Stairway To Heaven’ is like comparing a garden shed to a cathedral….
...But the point holds true: Jimmy Page is hardly the only artist to find ‘inspiration’ from underneath his nose.
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One of the main reasons behind him parting ways with Jimmy in '98 was because of Jimmy's alcohol consumption, from what I understand.
Someone reliable on this board said that, yes. I believe it but it confuses me in that Jimmy's playing on that tour was stellar when I saw them, and in the many YouTube clips I've seen.
The Rest in Peace Thread
in Ramble On
Posted
Always loved Glen's voice and his songs when I was a kid. It wasn't until I was an adult asking a guitar teacher how to play Wichita Lineman that I got turned on to what an incredible guitarist he was. And on top of that he seemed like a real gent too.
RIP Glen, we could use more like him.